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Subject: Theory/ Proof That Sierra 259 isn't Malcolm or a Spartan

Proof that he is:

"This is Sierra 259. We/you got Spartans on the ground, sir... we're not going anywhere."

The Master Chief was refferred to as "Sierra 117" in Halo 3. Now obviously, there are going to be lots of military units dubbed "Sierra". But this isn't real life, this is a video game, and in Bungie's previous video game, the Master Chief was "Sierra 117". Bungie are obviously following up on this and refferring to this 259 fella as "Sierra 259", meaning he's a Spartan. This is how storytelling works, and it makes perfect sense if you think about it.

Nope, Bungie aren't trying to throw us off course, this isn't more complicated than it looks, and we are going to be playing as at least one Spartan in Halo Reach, which is also prooved by the obvious Spartans in the Halo Reach banner. Just which Spartans we're going to play as remains a mystery.

  • 07.17.2009 12:56 AM PDT

Me and my ODST we are our own breed, forged from combat and bread from years of battle as ODST. So you can take your -blam!- ODST clan invites and shove 'em. Rookies don't run jack, we do.

Good points. But I still believe that Reach is going to have multiple spartans in the Campaign.

  • 07.17.2009 1:11 AM PDT
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My thoughts on the whole, 'Spartans never referred to by the code Sierra before halo 3, and at reach' is that Bungie has updated the canon of the halo universe to include Sierra as a reference to Spartans, they started it in Halo 3. They are now retroactively inserting it in to the timeline with Halo: Reach. Sierra, in my opinion can mean nothing BUT spartans. If you have read the fall of reach, you should know that there is nothing referenced that can fill in this void. Since bungie states in the trailer that WE ALREADY KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN, I feel confident it is Spartans fighting for reach.

  • 07.28.2009 6:43 AM PDT

"Won't look back chains that bound me" - Blue 42, Haste The Day

Posted by: Johnny Badfinger

Posted by: RoyalEngineerSon
Use some common sense. He is obviously a Spartan, probably from the 2nd class of Spartan 2's. I've said this in god knows how many threads, and am not arguing the point.
then why is it said in a 1st & 3rd person context

"this is Sierra 259"

First person context

"you have Spartans on the ground, sir!"

Third person context

"Were not going anywhere"

1st person context

if all dialog was from a Spartan why would he need to talk in 3rd person??? unless he wasnt a Spartan. 3rd person is based on observation.


3rd person context is used as there are multiple spartans.

I agree with you man, people are trying to get to technical with the english/ language part of this. Just say it outloud then makes more sense than reading it or hearing it.

[Edited on 07.28.2009 6:58 AM PDT]

  • 07.28.2009 6:55 AM PDT

they call him sierra 117 in the storm on halo3

  • 07.28.2009 7:24 AM PDT

Voilà!In view,a humble vaudevillian veteran,cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of Fate.This visage, no mere veneer of vanity,is a vestige of the vox populi,now vacant, vanished.However,this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation,stands vivified and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin van-guarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition.

Posted by: Johnny Badfinger
Posted by: RoyalEngineerSon
Use some common sense. He is obviously a Spartan, probably from the 2nd class of Spartan 2's. I've said this in god knows how many threads, and am not arguing the point.
then why is it said in a 1st & 3rd person context

"this is Sierra 259"

First person context

"you have Spartans on the ground, sir!"

Third person context

"Were not going anywhere"

1st person context

if all dialog was from a Spartan why would he need to talk in 3rd person??? unless he wasnt a Spartan. 3rd person is based on observation.


how is that third person, when you use "you" to address someone thats second person, Sierra 259 is adressing some higher ranking offical with "you" and "sir" while adresssing a group of spartan soidlers as "Spartans" pural meaning more than one and possibly himself. this is also backed up by him saying "we're" which would include him and said Spartans. Sierra 259 is a Spartan he refers to himself as a Spartan with more Spartans, the banner shows us 5 Spartans, you can tell that they are wearing Mark IV armour by the way the helmet is shaped and their right soulder is slightly bulkier an their left. Besides Bungie does this all the time they feed us conterversal bits of information, first they make us think Spartan with Sierra then throws conterversy into it with the ID number we can't trace, 259 is to large for for the oringinal spartans, and the Spartan III don't use Sierra in their FLEETCOM so we are left to speculate and wonder whether its a spartan or somthing different, when the answer seems so simple we don't consider it could be the second class of Spartan II. only so few of us have thought about these mysterious spartans that we really known little about.

  • 07.28.2009 7:41 AM PDT
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well sierra 117 is used to conceil the identity of master cheif. master cheif is most commonly identified as master cheif or cheif, cortana, johnson, marines. all local or short range coms. however when MC is being reached from longer ranged such as from captain keyes or anyone in orbit he is identified as sierra 117. but then theres also the fact that the spartans have always been tagged, john as 117. so it could quite possibly be a code for spartan. im not sure wich side i want to agree with just pointing out facts.

  • 07.28.2009 8:40 AM PDT
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Okay first I will state the totally unrelated fact that half of these posts have bad spelling and grammar. This usually meaning some kids who don't know what they're talking about and can't use spell check.

Okay, now, to address the Theory saying that S-259 means Spartan II-059 and that S-320 means Spartan III-032. No, No, and again, No. This is impossible as Spartan III's never met Spartan II's other than Kurt (who officially was not a Spartan again until Onyx) Ambrose until The Ghosts of Onyx.

Now to Address the Theory of S-259 and S-320 Being Spartan II second Generation. Dr. Halsey never actually made them, she just went on to test to see if she could get a better survival rate on them.

Now for the Theory that Sierra is code for Spartan. Wrong Sierra is code for the letter S, and why would they need to keep themselves hidden from the Covenant when he Says "This is Sierra 259, we've got Spartans on the ground sir." That kinda defeats the purpose.

For the theory that they are not Spartans. This seems the most plausible as S-259 and S-320 are NEVER mentioned anywhere else in Halo canon and would not be referred to now. And Spartans never refer to themselves as Sierra anywhere. They are referred to as Sierra, yes, but never refer themselves as Sierra.

But in my opinion I would just close all these threads and wait until the game comes out in Fall of 2010, so just another year.

  • 07.28.2009 9:05 AM PDT

The original BADFINGER! (the second)

Posted by: Person25
Okay first I will state the totally unrelated fact that half of these posts have bad spelling and grammar. This usually meaning some kids who don't know what they're talking about and can't use spell check.

Okay, now, to address the Theory saying that S-259 means Spartan II-059 and that S-320 means Spartan III-032. No, No, and again, No. This is impossible as Spartan III's never met Spartan II's other than Kurt (who officially was not a Spartan again until Onyx) Ambrose until The Ghosts of Onyx.

Now to Address the Theory of S-259 and S-320 Being Spartan II second Generation. Dr. Halsey never actually made them, she just went on to test to see if she could get a better survival rate on them.

Now for the Theory that Sierra is code for Spartan. Wrong Sierra is code for the letter S, and why would they need to keep themselves hidden from the Covenant when he Says "This is Sierra 259, we've got Spartans on the ground sir." That kinda defeats the purpose.

For the theory that they are not Spartans. This seems the most plausible as S-259 and S-320 are NEVER mentioned anywhere else in Halo canon and would not be referred to now. And Spartans never refer to themselves as Sierra anywhere. They are referred to as Sierra, yes, but never refer themselves as Sierra.

But in my opinion I would just close all these threads and wait until the game comes out in Fall of 2010, so just another year.
See this bloke gets it.

Spartans DONT refer to them selves as Sierra, only Spartan. To me it makes more sense that the only reason MC was called Sierra 117 in the beginning of Halo 3 was because he was the Objective. He was the mission that Johnson and his men were sent on, to locate and retrieve the Master Chief. Hence calling the level Sierra 117. He is only reffered to as Sierra 117 twice during Halo 3 (go and count) and thats only in the early stages of the game when he still remains the objective.

The books dont mention Sierra either. So the only way Sierra can possibly mean Spartans is when they are talking about a squad or platoon of Spartans. And to my knowledge only the Spartan 2s were on Reach and that was all of them, except for about 2 or 3 that were in distant systems and could not be reached easily. And Master Chief and Linda who were both on the Pillar of Autumn, but who later return too Reach in search of their fellow Spartans.

  • 08.15.2009 11:17 PM PDT

Posted by: Ushan
Because Muslims surgically implant organic bombs in their testicles, which in turn will be injected into women during sex, which will grow into BABY BOMBS!

Posted by: Johnny Badfinger
Posted by: Person25
Okay first I will state the totally unrelated fact that half of these posts have bad spelling and grammar. This usually meaning some kids who don't know what they're talking about and can't use spell check.

Okay, now, to address the Theory saying that S-259 means Spartan II-059 and that S-320 means Spartan III-032. No, No, and again, No. This is impossible as Spartan III's never met Spartan II's other than Kurt (who officially was not a Spartan again until Onyx) Ambrose until The Ghosts of Onyx.

Now to Address the Theory of S-259 and S-320 Being Spartan II second Generation. Dr. Halsey never actually made them, she just went on to test to see if she could get a better survival rate on them.

Now for the Theory that Sierra is code for Spartan. Wrong Sierra is code for the letter S, and why would they need to keep themselves hidden from the Covenant when he Says "This is Sierra 259, we've got Spartans on the ground sir." That kinda defeats the purpose.

For the theory that they are not Spartans. This seems the most plausible as S-259 and S-320 are NEVER mentioned anywhere else in Halo canon and would not be referred to now. And Spartans never refer to themselves as Sierra anywhere. They are referred to as Sierra, yes, but never refer themselves as Sierra.

But in my opinion I would just close all these threads and wait until the game comes out in Fall of 2010, so just another year.
See this bloke gets it.

Spartans DONT refer to them selves as Sierra, only Spartan. To me it makes more sense that the only reason MC was called Sierra 117 in the beginning of Halo 3 was because he was the Objective. He was the mission that Johnson and his men were sent on, to locate and retrieve the Master Chief. Hence calling the level Sierra 117. He is only reffered to as Sierra 117 twice during Halo 3 (go and count) and thats only in the early stages of the game when he still remains the objective.

The books dont mention Sierra either. So the only way Sierra can possibly mean Spartans is when they are talking about a squad or platoon of Spartans. And to my knowledge only the Spartan 2s were on Reach and that was all of them, except for about 2 or 3 that were in distant systems and could not be reached easily. And Master Chief and Linda who were both on the Pillar of Autumn, but who later return too Reach in search of their fellow Spartans.


Yeah, exactly. I highly doubt that they're Spartans.

  • 08.16.2009 12:19 AM PDT
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Ive skimmed through this "Debate" and fail to understand what everyones arguing about so much.
If you use your common sense you will realise of course theres going to be spartans.

Its a halo game.
And the artwork shows a team of spartans.
Why even try and argue against there being spartans, its rather silly.
And if your arguing wether its a marine or spartan speaking on the radio, does it matter?
Does it really have an impact on the game? Spartans and marines are on reach, you play a spartan.
No more silly arguements?

As for the Malcolm theory, just wait till 2010.

[Edited on 08.16.2009 4:41 AM PDT]

  • 08.16.2009 4:40 AM PDT

The original BADFINGER! (the second)

Im not saying there ISNT going to be spartans, because the chances are about 99% sure that you will play as a spartan.
Im saying that Sierra 320 and 259 arent necessarily Spartans just because they are called Sierra.

  • 08.28.2009 12:17 AM PDT
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Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
This is Sierra-259. You've got Spartans on the ground, sir. We're not going anywhere.

The way he says "we" means he's one of the Spartans on the ground that isn't going anywhere (Team Beta?)
He could very well be a regular Marine who has gotten Spartan reinforcements, and has decided not to retreat.

  • 08.28.2009 12:36 AM PDT

Here’s what Luke had to say about the differences in treatment between the Spartans and Elites in Reach:

“Instead of piece-by-piece customization like the Spartans, Elite customization is a full model swap with models selected from the various Elite classes appearing throughout the Campaign. There are all kinds of reasons for this, not the least of which is our continued emphasis on the Spartan as your identity in Reach.”

Theory. Not proof.

  • 08.28.2009 12:42 AM PDT

The original BADFINGER! (the second)

Posted by: Uncle Kulikov
Theory. Not proof.
Yes it is a theory, that being the not spartans part. but the proof isS259 is NOT Malcolm.

  • 08.29.2009 2:37 AM PDT

Posted by: SeraphvsIvdicii
At the beginning of Halo 3, the Chief is referred to as Sierra-117. "S" is the first letter of Spartan (in case you hadn't realised). It's code.


thats only the name of a campaign mission, you hardly read what this guy has typed!!!
as this guy was making clear it was all about military codes!!
Sierra referes the the letter "S" right? so you think it has to be Spartan?? what about Soldier? begins with a "S" aswell. or what aout Sargeant?

  • 08.29.2009 4:11 AM PDT

*Silloin kun näyttää siltä että ei ole mitään hätää niin tulee hälytyskellojen soida
*Neuvostoliiton hajoaminen oli vain showta
*Saksa on löytänyt uuden tavan vallata Eurooppa ilman yhtäkään panssarivaunua

Posted by: AK 47625714
Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
This is Sierra-259. You've got Spartans on the ground, sir. We're not going anywhere.

The way he says "we" means he's one of the Spartans on the ground that isn't going anywhere (Team Beta?)
He could very well be a regular Marine who has gotten Spartan reinforcements, and has decided not to retreat.


Pretty pointless trailer having a regular marine (possibly protagonist) saying that since Spartans are in major role in this game.

[Edited on 08.29.2009 4:58 AM PDT]

  • 08.29.2009 4:42 AM PDT
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Posted by: Johnny Badfinger
So clearly they have no problem saying Spartan or Master Chief over the radio, so then why would they say they are Sierra when all they need to say is Spartan or Master Chief whatever.

And so that all means that Sierra 259, = the ID tag of S259 (whom ever it is)
it doesn't mean Spartan Class 2 0-59, that's too complicated

On Sierra 117 and in the Reach trailer they don't want to alert the Covies by saying "Dude, bro, we got a Spartan and he's gonna F your A". That would pretty foolish. Your example of John talking with Lord Hood while he was on the Dreadnaught doesn't disprove this, because the Covenant already knew he was there, at least to some extent. I forget what book talks about it, but there's something that details the Chief on it.

Also, it's fairly likely that, up until that time in the series, Bungie hadn't thought of including the term Sierra for Spartans. They then later thought that it sounded good, and they decided to add it.

  • 08.29.2009 5:52 AM PDT
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Posted by: Johnny Badfinger
Im not saying there ISNT going to be spartans, because the chances are about 99% sure that you will play as a spartan.
Im saying that Sierra 320 and 259 arent necessarily Spartans just because they are called Sierra.

You're way overanalyzing this. Why would Bungie include the term "Sierra" into Halo 3, use it twice when referring to the Chief, and then blatantly say it in the trailer only to be something something else. Personally, I think it would be Bungie being a gigantic jerk.

Also, when the pelican makes its way to Crow's Nest, the marine says "We've got a Sierra on board". Now, I'm guessing that they aren't referring to Sergant Johnson or the Smelly alien, but the Chief. So, the fact that he simply said "We have a Sierra on board" and everyone knew what he was talking about makes me think that it means Spartan.

  • 08.29.2009 5:58 AM PDT

This guy is a scrub

This guy is a scrub

  • 08.29.2009 8:15 AM PDT

In the days of old, there were legends of a land long lost to time. This land was known as Ranna'Mor. Ranna'Mor was said to contain in its borders 7 warriors. These warriors had once unleashed a veritable hell upon the ancient world, until they were locked away. My name is Toriad, and I am one of those warriors. Our return is approaching. Do not run away, do not cower in fear; take solace in your final days, for that is all we can do. -Legend of Ranna'Mor

Posted by: Johnny Badfinger
Quote taken from the Spartan 259? topic by TheCyberFreakSierra 259 means Spartan 2, 059. That's Malcolm-059.

John-117 has referred to himself as 117, but never 2-117. According to this theory she would be a Spartan 3? This is unlikely.
Additionally, that person on FLEETCOM say there are Spartans on the ground. Malcolm was at Reach and he made it to the ground but only as a smear across the surface of the planet. Malcolm died on impact when dropping onto the surface of Reach.


Ok lets point out flaws in your logic.
In the trailer this voice in question says " This is Sierra 259, you got Spartans on the ground sir, were not going anywhere".... So people are saying Malcolm dropped to the surface of Reach, died on impact, then stated his ID tag, NOT possible therefore its not Malcolm.

Who decided that Sierra = Spartan?? Exactly, Im sure people are familiar with the Military Phonetic Alphabet code :
A: Alpha
B: Bravo
C: Charlie
D: Delta
E: Echo
F: Foxtrot
G: Golf
H: Hotel
I: India
J: Juliet
K: Kilo
L: Lima
M: Mike
N: November
O: Oscar
P: Papa
Q: Quebec
R: Romeo
S: Sierra
T: Tango
U: Uniform
V: Victor
W: Whiskey
X: X-Ray
Y: Yankee
Z: Zulu

1: Wun
2: Too
3: Tree
4: Fower
5: Fife
6: Siks
7: Seven
8: Ait
9: Niner
0: Zeero

Yes people, Sierra = S not spartan.
Sure Spartan start with s, but sierra in military talk is purely for ID and code purposes, S could cover everything from a Vehicles ID to an individual marines ID, its main purpose is so that they don't confuse the letter s with say e, because over radio transmission you get static interference making it hard to hear whats been said. So when they hear Sierra, they (being the people on the other end of the radio ) know they're are referring to the letter S.

And let me break down what i think is meant in that radio transmission:
"This is Sierra 259..."

marine stating his ID over the radio com

"... you got Spartans on the ground, sir"

Marine stating that the Spartans have landed (dropped) on the battlefield

"... we're not going anywhere."

Marine stating that his reinforcements (Spartans) have arrived and that they are ready to kick some covie ass.

The Spartans were probably dropped in as reinforcements to help protect a certain location which could be what they were referring to with the Winter Contingency..

" Winter Contingency has been declared, all units are mobilized and ready"

then its followed by another Sierra

" this is Sierra 320, prep'd for combat insertion"

Now that to me sounds like a Spartan but then I'm turned off by the fact that Master Chief never through out Halo 1,2 and 3 referred to himself as Sierra 117, it was always " This is Spartan 117..." only over radio was he referred to as Sierra but that was never direct to him that was always to either Miranda Keyes or Lord Hood, and then again at the end of Halo to when MC was on the Forerunner Ship with Truth and they had Exited Slip-space he said

" This is Spartan 117, can anybody read me?"

Lord Hood

" Master Chief? Mind telling me what your doing on that ship?'

Chief

"Sir! Finishing this Fight!"

So clearly they have no problem saying Spartan or Master Chief over the radio, so then why would they say they are Sierra when all they need to say is Spartan or Master Chief whatever.

And so that all means that Sierra 259, = the ID tag of S259 (whom ever it is)
it doesn't mean Spartan Class 2 0-59, that's too complicated

I doubt Sierra 259 and 320 are marines. If not Spartans, are probably Pelican dropships (i.e. Echo 419= E-419).

Now, you've obviously not read Halo: Uprising. There are many times when John is referred to as Sierra 117, directly, and a couple when he refers to himself as such. In Halo 3, he is referred to several times as Sierra 117.

Chances are that they only started calling him that in Halo 3 to hide his presence from the covenant. If they here "Spartan", they know what's coming. But, if they here "Sierra", that can throw them off because it could refer to many things.

I stand by my belief that Sierra 259 is a Spartan, mainly because it makes little sense for a pilot or marine, or any ground troop to say, "You've got Spartans on the ground, sir. We're not going anywhere" unless the speak was a Spartan himself.

  • 08.29.2009 9:02 AM PDT
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i agree with the OP

  • 08.29.2009 11:42 AM PDT

Here’s what Luke had to say about the differences in treatment between the Spartans and Elites in Reach:

“Instead of piece-by-piece customization like the Spartans, Elite customization is a full model swap with models selected from the various Elite classes appearing throughout the Campaign. There are all kinds of reasons for this, not the least of which is our continued emphasis on the Spartan as your identity in Reach.”

Posted by: Johnny Badfinger
Posted by: Uncle Kulikov
Theory. Not proof.
Yes it is a theory, that being the not spartans part. but the proof isS259 is NOT Malcolm.
Yes.

  • 08.29.2009 11:43 AM PDT

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