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This topic has moved here: Subject: Dual wielding- The solution {Diagram included}
  • Subject: Dual wielding- The solution {Diagram included}
Subject: Dual wielding- The solution {Diagram included}

There has to be other ways, but I think that this is the simplest.

  • 06.27.2009 1:44 PM PDT
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I think with this system we would need the Halo CE Shotgun. The extra range would be necessary because the shotgun would be competing with two weapons in close quarters. The gravity hammer would need some changing as well the sword. The gravity hammer could get a larger gravity explosion making it more than just a melee weapon. The sword could get a faster lung I guess, not really sure what could be done.

  • 06.27.2009 1:49 PM PDT

(;3=

the diagram helped clear a few things up

  • 06.27.2009 1:52 PM PDT

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My suggestions for the melee range weapons:

Shotgun -- bring back the Halo 1 shotgun, lower the rate of fire, and magazine capacity should be 6 instead of 12.

Sword -- increase lunge range between H2 and H3 sword, make clash consistent or remove it. This is the only weapon with lunge on it. Carrying this weapon gives a slight running speed boost.

Hammer -- gravity burst should ONLY be effective in a conical fashion (no more 360 degree effect). No more lunge, more gravity burst, maybe in a 45-90 degree cone infront.

[Edited on 06.27.2009 1:56 PM PDT]

  • 06.27.2009 1:55 PM PDT

While we're at it, let's bring back the Rockets AOE from Halo:CE. You know, the one that had a deadly effect when shot at the ground.

Also, if duel-wielding is scrapped for Halo:Reach (feels good to have a semi-colon again) than I believe we will have to see the return of the 60 bullet capacity Assault Rifle.

  • 06.27.2009 1:59 PM PDT
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Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
My suggestions for the melee range weapons:

Shotgun -- bring back the Halo 1 shotgun, lower the rate of fire, and magazine capacity should be 6 instead of 12.

Sword -- increase lunge range between H2 and H3 sword, make clash consistent or remove it. This is the only weapon with lunge on it. Carrying this weapon gives a slight running speed boost.

Hammer -- gravity burst should ONLY be effective in a conical fashion (no more 360 degree effect). No more lunge, more gravity burst, maybe in a 45-90 degree cone infront.
Sounds good, the sword running boost makes no sense but it would be needed regardless. Even a 10% speed increase would make a huge difference.

  • 06.27.2009 2:00 PM PDT

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The Halo REACH Script (post thoughts in thread)

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Currently when you dual wield ammo capacity is doubled. I think that if this solution to DW is implemented, ammo capacity should remain the same as normal, not doubled (since the weapons are more poweful). Another way to balance it out...

  • 06.27.2009 2:06 PM PDT
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I don't know. If I have a Spiker and a SMG I still have double ammo. Unless bungie gave everything half ammo when dual wielded so two SMG's would still have normal ammo but two different weapons wouldn't have double ammo.

  • 06.27.2009 2:13 PM PDT

For the ammo,

Battery charge guns: As it is now.

Guns with bullets:

-Two separate guns
Say an SMG and a magnum. They have different bullets, so they have separate ammo count.

-Two of the same guns:
No more than the maximum allowed for when single wielding, bullets are split in half.

So if the you can carry 360 SMG bullets, when you dual wield them, they each have 180 shots.

  • 06.27.2009 3:13 PM PDT

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@Geegs30

Sounds like a good idea. I myself couldn't care less about dual-wielding, I hate the fact that I can't throw grenades. Maybe this could bring some popularity and actual combat use back into duals.

  • 06.27.2009 3:16 PM PDT

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The only problem with a small weapon I would see is the Needler, since it tracks... so I think it should remain SW.

  • 06.27.2009 3:16 PM PDT

Dual wielding the needler could work.

I personally think that the needler is too overpowered in Halo 3. Not because it tracks, but because of how quickly it kills.

The needler should have been designed so that when dual wielding, it has the same power as the current Halo 3 needler. When single wielding, it should have half the power of the Halo 3 needler.


To Geegs,

I think that if throwing grenades is a problem, what your character would do is tuck the guns underneath their arms to free their hands.

[Edited on 06.27.2009 3:41 PM PDT]

  • 06.27.2009 3:33 PM PDT
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Posted by: TW InKoGnIto
Dual wielding the needler could work.

I personally think that the needler is too overpowered in Halo 3. Not because it tracks, but because of how quickly it kills.

The needler should have been designed so that when dual wielding, it has the same power as the current Halo 3 needler. When single wielding, it should have half the power of the Halo 3 needler.

The biggest problem with dual wielding is half weapon syndrome. That would only create more problems.

  • 06.27.2009 4:12 PM PDT

Actualy, the "accuracy" of the weapon is dimmished when you dual wield, and the dual wieldable weapons work fine on their own. I single wield spikers all the time and do as fine as I would with an AR.

I explain a bit more in detail about this in my guide to close ranged combat, but when you fire an AR, obviously all your bullets don't go in a straight line, they spread outwards in a cone. Aiming the cone so that the gun is as efficient as possible is one of the key skills of close ranged combat, something that many do not realize. Each of the major rapid fire close ranged weapon has a different size of a spread cone, which makes you focus on a different aspect of aiming:
Spiker > Small > Leading your shots (because the spikes move slowly, but narry a spread cone)
AR > Medium > Leading your shots / Aiming the spread cone (its the middle ground)
SMG > Large > Aiming the spread cone (Bullets are constantly flying so leading shots is not a problem, but aiming the spread cone is paramount with this weapon)
Plasma Rifle > Variable > (As you begin firing, its more like a spiker, as it is about to overheat, it is more like an SMG)

By dual wielding a weapon, several things happen:
>Power drops by 25% for each gun (but since you have two weapons, 75% + 75% = 150%)
>Can no longer use grenades
>Need to drop the offhand weapon before you change weapons
>The size of the spread cone for each weapon increases
>Reloading takes longer

So although your guns are "more powerful", they are less efficient (Its not exactly accuracy, but its the close range analogue of it), so it roughly balances out when you also consider the loss of mobillity, inabillity to quickly switch weapons should you get jumped at medium range, and the loss of grenades is major in the close range world.

So to answer your suggestion: This has already been done in effect. Only weapon that this doesn't really apply to is the mauler, which is kinda messed up and is hopefully fixed in the next game.

Hopefully that makes sense, like I said, most of this is off the top of my head, my official version is in My close quarter combat guide

[Edited on 06.27.2009 4:18 PM PDT]

  • 06.27.2009 4:18 PM PDT

Maybe just increase the amount of needles to detonation to 10 instead of 8, and keep it the same in every other aspect.


I know the weapons work fine, but that is because every weapon besides the BR and sniper is nerfed in Halo 3.

What this allows for is for more powerful weapons in general. All the weapons in Halo 3 take too long to kill.

When you are dual wielding, weapon power should not be diminished, it should be doubled. But the accuracy could be halved.

As you said, Bungie has already done this in Halo 3, but I am talking about a more drastic step.

To me, all the automatic weapons in Halo require a melee to get an 'economical' kill. When I say economical, I mean doesn't waste too much time or bullets. I prefer Halo 1 where the Plasma rifle and pistol were formidable weapons. But I also like dual wielding.

This, to me, allows for both.

[Edited on 06.27.2009 4:27 PM PDT]

  • 06.27.2009 4:21 PM PDT

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I really like this idea. The fact that it makes sense makes it even more credible whilst providing weapon balance too. If possible I'd like to see this implemented.

  • 06.27.2009 4:22 PM PDT

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Posted by: Hylebos
Actualy, the "accuracy" of the weapon is dimmished when you dual wield, and the dual wieldable weapons work fine on their own. I single wield spikers all the time and do as fine as I would with an AR.

I explain a bit more in detail about this in my guide to close ranged combat, but when you fire an AR, obviously all your bullets don't go in a straight line, they spread outwards in a cone. Aiming the cone so that the gun is as efficient as possible is one of the key skills of close ranged combat, something that many do not realize. Each of the major rapid fire close ranged weapon has a different size of a spread cone, which makes you focus on a different aspect of aiming:
Well what Inkognito is suggesting is that all weapons will be useful on their own -- powerful, and ranged. So they're versatile, like in H1... not just meant for close range (however, they would only really work at close range if you're dual wielding them).

  • 06.27.2009 4:26 PM PDT

Thats actually not that bad of an idea. Although, i don't think it would be necessary to make another reticule around the first; just increase the size of the first.

  • 06.27.2009 4:48 PM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.

Or just leave dual weilding as it's fine as it is.

  • 06.27.2009 4:52 PM PDT

If you read the caption, the red is just to show the size of the original reticule compared to the new one.

Posted by: cory0021
Thats actually not that bad of an idea. Although, i don't think it would be necessary to make another reticule around the first; just increase the size of the first.

  • 06.27.2009 5:08 PM PDT

Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Posted by: Hylebos
Actualy, the "accuracy" of the weapon is dimmished when you dual wield, and the dual wieldable weapons work fine on their own. I single wield spikers all the time and do as fine as I would with an AR.

I explain a bit more in detail about this in my guide to close ranged combat, but when you fire an AR, obviously all your bullets don't go in a straight line, they spread outwards in a cone. Aiming the cone so that the gun is as efficient as possible is one of the key skills of close ranged combat, something that many do not realize. Each of the major rapid fire close ranged weapon has a different size of a spread cone, which makes you focus on a different aspect of aiming:
Well what Inkognito is suggesting is that all weapons will be useful on their own -- powerful, and ranged. So they're versatile, like in H1... not just meant for close range (however, they would only really work at close range if you're dual wielding them).

In other words you want a medium ranged weapon that can be dual wielded where it acts like a close ranged weapon?

[Edited on 06.27.2009 5:25 PM PDT]

  • 06.27.2009 5:25 PM PDT

nice idea but now we gotta keep it alive untill halo odst dies down so bungie will have time to come into this forum and look at ideas(havent seen a post from bungie thats why im saying this idk if they are or not)

  • 06.27.2009 5:31 PM PDT
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Posted by: N4T1V3 BO1
nice idea but now we gotta keep it alive untill halo odst dies down so bungie will have time to come into this forum and look at ideas(havent seen a post from bungie thats why im saying this idk if they are or not)




[Edited on 06.27.2009 5:40 PM PDT]

  • 06.27.2009 5:39 PM PDT

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The Halo REACH Script (post thoughts in thread)

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Posted by: Hylebos
Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Posted by: Hylebos
Actualy, the "accuracy" of the weapon is dimmished when you dual wield, and the dual wieldable weapons work fine on their own. I single wield spikers all the time and do as fine as I would with an AR.

I explain a bit more in detail about this in my guide to close ranged combat, but when you fire an AR, obviously all your bullets don't go in a straight line, they spread outwards in a cone. Aiming the cone so that the gun is as efficient as possible is one of the key skills of close ranged combat, something that many do not realize. Each of the major rapid fire close ranged weapon has a different size of a spread cone, which makes you focus on a different aspect of aiming:
Well what Inkognito is suggesting is that all weapons will be useful on their own -- powerful, and ranged. So they're versatile, like in H1... not just meant for close range (however, they would only really work at close range if you're dual wielding them).

In other words you want a medium ranged weapon that can be dual wielded where it acts like a close ranged weapon?
Yes; that... or remove dual wielding. To keep fans of DW happy, I say go with Inkog's idea.

  • 06.27.2009 6:03 PM PDT

I personally support dual wielding because it keeps Halo unique and different from other games.

  • 06.27.2009 7:14 PM PDT