Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Let's just get this straight
  • Subject: Let's just get this straight
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • of 3
Subject: Let's just get this straight
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

"You must be mistaken, Reclaimer. I've met your makers, and they don't even know your name..."

Guy on the far left, IMO, is clearly not a standard-armored Spartan-II, at first I thought he might have been an Elite. To the right of him reminds me of a Marine from Halo: CE, with the curved helmets. To the right again is the obvious Spartan carrying an Assault Rifle. To the right of him is a second Spartan, just a little ways back then the rest of the group. The last one, far right, looks to me like an ODST helmet with a pair of rangefinders on it's brow, carrying a Sniper.

  • 07.01.2009 11:31 AM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: Delta 15t
Posted by Sanjeev: I've been watching all your crazy speculation. In fact, in the earlier days, I argued against most of them before it just went out of hand but I can pretty much guarantee, and I mean it, I bet every single one of you here that there is only one god damned spartan in the picture you see in the Halo: Reach banner.

Just. One. -blam!-. Spartan.
JUST.ONE.

Want a bigger picture for you to analyze? Here you go

It's pretty obvious that there is only one Spartan in that picture and that's the dude standing first from the left., The Big dude with the weird gun in his/her hand.

Compare his body physique to every other person there. Or, just compare it to the dude/girl next to him/her. He/She is clearly in MJOLNIR armor but the rest? Their Body physiques are quite radically different to even be Spartans!

God, people, now do you see?



/rant


You should stop taking drugs...


Or perhaps start taking better ones?

  • 07.01.2009 11:41 AM PDT

Oh yeah It's Rayzed.

Posted by: Sanjeev
I've been watching all your crazy speculation. In fact, in the earlier days, I argued against most of them before it just went out of hand but I can pretty much guarantee, and I mean it, I bet every single one of you here that there is only one god damned spartan in the picture you see in the Halo: Reach banner.

Just. One. -blam!-. Spartan.
JUST.ONE.

Want a bigger picture for you to analyze? Here you go

It's pretty obvious that there is only one Spartan in that picture and that's the dude standing first from the left., The Big dude with the weird gun in his/her hand.

Compare his body physique to every other person there. Or, just compare it to the dude/girl next to him/her. He/She is clearly in MJOLNIR armor but the rest? Their Body physiques are quite radically different to even be Spartans!

God, people, now do you see?



/rant

First time I've been able to observe it up close. You're right, they definately aren't all Spartans. This actually helps support a theory I recently thought of after re-reading First Strike. Maybe we play as Charlie Company's Marines? They were seperated from the Spartans in their group (though one may have been seperated with them) and their communication could have been nulled due to the EMP released when the Covenant Cruiser's fire plasma. The EMP also disables Fred's Banshee, Shields, and HUD earlier in the book.

  • 07.01.2009 11:50 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Guys. Look at the helmets the one in the middle and the one next to him on the right are clearly wearing the same helmet you can see it with out zooming in. Now the others, they all have the slit on the top of there helmets ODST helmets do not have slits neither do marines find some marine pictures guys compare them
I made this
Its for concept, things like the ammo pack and the knees are all the same so i drew them in a little bit the rest was just because i was bored, but i hope it helps you see how the can be Spartans
Here is the original


[Edited on 07.01.2009 12:20 PM PDT]

  • 07.01.2009 11:54 AM PDT
  • gamertag: Zereta
  • user homepage:

Before anyone tried to reply and argue back, make sure you read the entire thing before even trying.

Wow, did someone actually question whether I read the books? Haha, nice one there.

Let me tell you this. I've read the book and every other Halo book out there multiple times. I know that there were at least 20 Spartans on the ground. I know all that. Don't insult me by thinking I don't.

And I'm not trying to be rude as someone else put it. I'm just being very frank.

And are people still trying to come back with the whole "Oh, it could follow the book, you know!" excuse? Last time I checked, none of the books had a Spartan 259. In fact, I think it's pretty obvious that Bungie is straying away from what we know thus far of the Battle of Reach to expand that entire thing. If I recall correctly, The glassing of Reach did not occur in the book, Fall of Reach. It was mentioned and happened during the book "First Strike". Game's teaser trailer shows the glassing of Reach. Thus, anything saying that "Oh, this game takes place throughout the entire first book" is more or less wrong.

And its not me saying this with no basis. The basis of my argument has been presented.

The official Xbox.com description of Halo: Reach says this is a prequel to the Halo Trilogy, detailing the events that transpired on Reach.

1) It makes no sense to make a game based off most of the events in the book. The only events I can see that make sense in a gameplay perspective is the Spartan's First Mission in the Asteroid Belt, the Battle of Sigma Octanus and the Ground Mission carried out by Red Team. Everything else? A Coin Toss Minigame? A Spartan Training Minigame? Come on.

2) A Game based around a book? Seriously? That's why the book is there. For you to read it and find out what happens. A game presenting to you what's happening in the book, and in this case as some of you seem to think, the entire god damned book is just plain redundant as its not expanding on it in anyway.

Oh and don't even try to use Halo: The Flood as a come back. It was a book written based off the game. The game wasn't made based on the book.

And despite their leg plates looking similar, they are not exactly the same as far as I can see. Besides, those who tried to counter my Body Physique argument with the "Not all Spartans look the same" argument, let me ask you this. Look at the guy I pointed out. I think we can all agree that that is a Spartan. Okay, compare it to the dude next to him. Look at that dude.

If you read the Fall of Reach and some subsequent books, they mentioned how the Spartans were augmented and stuff and in "First Strike", I believe Corporal Locklear mentioned that he can't even distinguish the women from the men when it came to Spartans.

Now use Master Chief as a reference and the dude I pointed out in the banner. They have the same physique, more or less. If the women can't be differentiated from the men, then basically, the master Chief model is more or less the standard model for both Male and Female Spartans. Hence, the person next to the "Spartan" in the banner is clearly not a Spartan.

Same argument for the rest of them.

I admit, at this point of time, I know just as much as any of you. But, look around you. There are so many details around you that help.

  • 07.02.2009 12:04 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Legendary Member

common sense is not commonly used

Posted by: Sanjeev
.

Compare his body physique to every other person there. Or, just compare it to the dude/girl next to him/her. He/She is clearly in MJOLNIR armor but the rest? Their Body physiques are quite radically different to even be Spartans!

/rant


um yeah each spartan is different in size and body build so just because the shape of the silhouette aren't the same as what is normally thought of as a Spartan II build doesn't mean its not a spartan

[Edited on 07.02.2009 12:14 AM PDT]

  • 07.02.2009 12:13 AM PDT
  • gamertag: Zereta
  • user homepage:

Posted by: Blam417
Posted by: Sanjeev
.

Compare his body physique to every other person there. Or, just compare it to the dude/girl next to him/her. He/She is clearly in MJOLNIR armor but the rest? Their Body physiques are quite radically different to even be Spartans!

/rant


So, you're agreeing with me?

  • 07.02.2009 12:13 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Legendary Member

common sense is not commonly used

Posted by: Sanjeev
Posted by: Blam417
Posted by: Sanjeev
.

Compare his body physique to every other person there. Or, just compare it to the dude/girl next to him/her. He/She is clearly in MJOLNIR armor but the rest? Their Body physiques are quite radically different to even be Spartans!

/rant


So, you're agreeing with me?


misclicked
no, I disagree check the edit

  • 07.02.2009 12:15 AM PDT

Veritas Aequitas

not to rain on your parade but for the record, any one of those "characters" could be wearing different permutations if they are all indeed spartans.

  • 07.02.2009 12:16 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Legendary Member

common sense is not commonly used

For example look at Halo 3: ODST Each ODST's armor looks different and has a different feel to it. This helps to clarify and characterize the different main characters in the game. If Halo: Reach follows a squad of Spartans it would make sense for Bungie to have each one look and feel different to give them a sense of individuality and characterization to the player.

  • 07.02.2009 12:21 AM PDT
  • gamertag: Zereta
  • user homepage:

Posted by: Blam417
Posted by: Sanjeev
Posted by: Blam417
Posted by: Sanjeev
.

Compare his body physique to every other person there. Or, just compare it to the dude/girl next to him/her. He/She is clearly in MJOLNIR armor but the rest? Their Body physiques are quite radically different to even be Spartans!

/rant


So, you're agreeing with me?


misclicked
no, I disagree check the edit


Checked it. As I mentioned in that huge ass post before your post, It has been at least briefly mentioned in at least one book that all the Spartans, both Women and Men, have generally the same body physique due to the augmentations they received during their rise to becoming Spartans. And I would have been able to see it if the Body physique was slightly different but with just the 2 dudes I mentioned, its pretty obviously not.

Posted by: BoondockSaint32
not to rain on your parade but for the record, any one of those "characters" could be wearing different permutations if they are all indeed spartans.


While possible, I still go back to my Body Physique point. Different permutations don't change your body physique.

  • 07.02.2009 12:25 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

I do not appreciate B.Net Group solicitation. If you ignore this and send me an invitation anyway, I will block communications with you.

I've cut a huge portion of your response out since the first part of it has nothing to do with the characters in the silhouette banner.

Posted by: Sanjeev
And despite their leg plates looking similar, they are not exactly the same as far as I can see.

I think you should look closer, then, because the shapes of their legplates are identical with the only difference being their scale.

Besides, those who tried to counter my Body Physique argument with the "Not all Spartans look the same" argument, let me ask you this. Look at the guy I pointed out. I think we can all agree that that is a Spartan. Okay, compare it to the dude next to him. Look at that dude.

If you read the Fall of Reach and some subsequent books, they mentioned how the Spartans were augmented and stuff and in "First Strike", I believe Corporal Locklear mentioned that he can't even distinguish the women from the men when it came to Spartans.

I've read every novel and am actually quite brushed up on them all since Reach discussion recently began to bolster. The reason that many are unable to distinguish between male and female Spartans isn't because they are identical in physique, build, height, etc., but because their MJOLNIR armor hides their gender-specific features. The Spartans do not share identical body structure, and that is also described in the very novels you have read several times.

Now use Master Chief as a reference and the dude I pointed out in the banner. They have the same physique, more or less. If the women can't be differentiated from the men, then basically, the master Chief model is more or less the standard model for both Male and Female Spartans. Hence, the person next to the "Spartan" in the banner is clearly not a Spartan.

Same argument for the rest of them.

Again, this is incorrect, and I've stated above as to why. Also, the middle Spartan's legs are too narrow to be the bulkier model of Master Chief that we've seen since Halo: CE, so your assumption that the middle silhouette could be substituted for the ideal of a Spartan's build is unfounded. To reiterate: Spartans are not identical in build.

I admit, at this point of time, I know just as much as any of you. But, look around you. There are so many details around you that help.
Yes, there are, and they conflict. As I said before, no one has a "credible" theory as to what or who the silhouette characters are because they are silhouettes, and because the Spartans, like most humans, have differing physiques, heights, weights, and overall biological structures.

It is just as likely that all of them are Spartans as it is that only one is or that even none of them are. You can not ignore the fact that they are wearing identical legplates and girdle bands that only differ in scale, and neither can you ignore that the books explicitly state that the Spartans are not defined by universal dimensions, especially in their suits.

And being frank is different from throwing around your frustration in the form of curse words and your impatience with "God, people, now do you see?"

There is no definitive answer to who they are. Hopefully this will change come Bungie Day.

[Edited on 07.02.2009 12:42 AM PDT]

  • 07.02.2009 12:41 AM PDT

look at halo wars..........spartan team omega, armor is different. what was going on with johnny when halo wars was going on? they werent part of the spartan one program were they? then when john showed up he was right there with the transition of the spartan 1 to the spartan 2 program. all the while they were working on prototypes that were wrote about in the book. you have to have enhancements to where the armor or it killed you. every spartan was different when enhanced. hell john wouldnt be able to wear sams armor, or kellys armor they were made specific to the spartan. and they all had weapons of choice so why wouldnt their armor resemble this is some way?

  • 07.02.2009 12:44 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

I do not appreciate B.Net Group solicitation. If you ignore this and send me an invitation anyway, I will block communications with you.

Posted by: Sanjeev
As I mentioned in that huge ass post before your post, It has been at least briefly mentioned in at least one book that all the Spartans, both Women and Men, have generally the same body physique due to the augmentations they received during their rise to becoming Spartans.

This is absolutely false. The Spartans were hard to differentiate between while in their armor because their gender-specific traits were hidden by the single, unisex design. You are confusing this with biological structure, which has never been stated to be the same across the Spartan-IIs, ever. Contrarily, the novels have actively described the differences between them. Kelly is much more slender than the others, Sam was the largest having been a head taller, etc.

[Edited on 07.02.2009 12:48 AM PDT]

  • 07.02.2009 12:47 AM PDT

Veritas Aequitas

Posted by: Sanjeev


While possible, I still go back to my Body Physique point. Different permutations don't change your body physique.


Sure they do! Mark V makes your chest much larger and the Scout gear makes you slimmer. The EOD helmet makes your head look slightly larger. I could go on and on lol. Needless to say Bungie could also be creating different permutations that give you different statistics, or class-like character customization.

  • 07.02.2009 12:47 AM PDT

the armor had gel that contoured to their bodies. so the armor was like part of them. with their enhancements they didnt feel a thing when wearing this armor. but as i stated before they had many prototypes during the transition from the spartan one to the spartan two program. what these silhouettes have could very well be prototypes. johns armor from one to 3 were all redesigned.

  • 07.02.2009 12:53 AM PDT
  • gamertag: Zereta
  • user homepage:

Responding to Dream mainly, I admit, I know as much as you do, or anyone else for that matter and yes, the legplates are pretty much identical now upon closer inspection but even if the Spartans have more than slightly different body physiques, come on. Its too much of a different for genetically modified and augmented Super Soldiers.

And I believe I only used a curse word once.

Again, just like you, I wish this issue will be clarified come Bungie Day.

  • 07.02.2009 12:56 AM PDT

Veritas Aequitas

You do have a point in thinking that there is only one spartan. If everyone takes a trip down memory lane they can recall the fact that they wanted Spartans to be similar in height, weight, etc. Although I know that cybernetic augmentation could easily repair that (ROBOT LEGS!!!!), there shouldn't be that much of a difference in height.

As mentioned by another user they could also be different prototypes. The Mark V armor was much smaller than the mark VI. The Spartan 3s are smaller than both.

  • 07.02.2009 1:04 AM PDT
  • gamertag: Zereta
  • user homepage:

Posted by: BoondockSaint32
You do have a point in thinking that there is only one spartan. If everyone takes a trip down memory lane they can recall the fact that they wanted Spartans to be similar in height, weight, etc. Although I know that cybernetic augmentation could easily repair that (ROBOT LEGS!!!!), there shouldn't be that much of a difference in height.

As mentioned by another user they could also be different prototypes. The Mark V armor was much smaller than the mark VI. The Spartan 3s are smaller than both.


Thank you.

But the armor type doesn't make a difference, doesn't it? It has to be put on to the Spartan, in which case, they all are about the same size.

And Spartan 3s were not at Reach at this point. They were either dead, except for Gamma Company and Tom and Lucy, who were all on Onyx.

  • 07.02.2009 1:10 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

I do not appreciate B.Net Group solicitation. If you ignore this and send me an invitation anyway, I will block communications with you.

Posted by: BoondockSaint32
You do have a point in thinking that there is only one spartan. If everyone takes a trip down memory lane they can recall the fact that they wanted Spartans to be similar in height, weight, etc. Although I know that cybernetic augmentation could easily repair that (ROBOT LEGS!!!!), there shouldn't be that much of a difference in height.

As I've already addressed earlier in this thread, that is blatantly wrong. The Spartans have differing builds and that is explicitly stated in character descriptions throughout the novels.

Posted by: Sanjeev
Responding to Dream mainly, I admit, I know as much as you do, or anyone else for that matter and yes, the legplates are pretty much identical now upon closer inspection but even if the Spartans have more than slightly different body physiques, come on. Its too much of a different for genetically modified and augmented Super Soldiers.

Well, think about it this way. The Master Chief was 6'10" out of his armor, and 7'2" while wearing it. Sam was a head taller, which is why people like to assume that Sam is the Spartan on the left (yes, despite the counter-evidence, but bear with me as his identity matters not). When you consider this, look at the smallest figure in the silhouette, the second silhouetted character who happens to be standing next to the largest one. The differences between these two, though very noticeable, doesn't indicate that one is a Spartan and one is not.

The idea that just the first human is a Spartan and that the rest are normal humans either means that all of the other characters in the silhouette are somehow freakishly tall for humans who have received no biological augmentation and skeletal reinforcement, or that the Spartan on the left is actually significantly shorter than most Spartans tend to be.

To put this in another way: If any of these characters happen to be a Spartan, then we know around where their height lies, which would be anywhere from approximately 6'7" to 7'8" while in their armor. The numbers aren't that significant, but what is significant is that were we to stand in front of them, they would seem like giants to us... all of them, even the tiniest of characters in the banner.

I don't know, that's as much logic as I can provide regarding subject. I'm not saying I'm right or that you're wrong, and I'm not trying to convince you otherwise, but it's something to consider.

[Edited on 07.02.2009 1:18 AM PDT]

  • 07.02.2009 1:16 AM PDT

the armor itself probably wouldnt matter but look at how the chiefs armor was redesigned that implemented some new tech. and this isnt the book this is a game so they could throw out what the book has in the game universe. i just thought about that. this the halo game universe not the book universe so bungie can do what they want to the spartans as well as their armor and say this joe blow.

  • 07.02.2009 1:17 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

I do not appreciate B.Net Group solicitation. If you ignore this and send me an invitation anyway, I will block communications with you.

The armor added four inches to Master Chief and very obviously added bulkiness to his frame. It does changes the appearance of their physique.

  • 07.02.2009 1:19 AM PDT
  • gamertag: Zereta
  • user homepage:

Posted by: Dream053
The armor added four inches to Master Chief and very obviously added bulkiness to his frame. It does changes the appearance of their physique.


Yep. But it doesn't make the appearance smaller.

I don't know Dream, you're convincing me otherwise but I just don't see it. Right now, I'm past the "I know all the Spartans" thread. But, I just don't see them all us Spartans.

You know what i want for Bungie Day? They said a screenshot right? Give us a Screenshot with all the characters seen in the banner. Them just standing there. That's all I need at this point.

  • 07.02.2009 7:16 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

I dont know what to say....

The real Halo 3 ending

KOTOR

It's probably an aesthetic choice to differentiate between all of the Spartans.

Besides at the very beginning of the trailer it says, "This is Sierra-(Random number) you have Spartans on the ground."

Why show a squad of big hefty people in full battle gear if they weren't?

  • 07.02.2009 7:30 AM PDT
  • gamertag: Zereta
  • user homepage:

2 Spartans are mentioned. Sierra 320 and 259. True. But, I believe while they play a relatively huge part in Reach's Story, there will be many other heroes. The Wars did not revolve around the Spartans. Halo 3: ODST is kinda evidence of that. The standard marines also played a huge part in all.

  • 07.02.2009 7:39 AM PDT

  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • of 3