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Subject: Forge, and how it could be improved.

I hunt for the Prophet of Contentment, the San 'Shyumm that murdered my son, and stole his birthright, his Energy Sword. They call our species Heretics. They claim to all that our tongues sting, our words a vile poison that feeds on the unworthy. I have seen the true face of Heresy. The head of a gallant warrior lay on the ground. His neck scorched and blistered, scarred by his own blade. I shall retrieve the weapon, and drive it through that bastard's heart! Punishment for his sins is nigh.

Forge changed Halo, the ability to modify the weapon and object places on maps was great. But the Community wanted more. On Last Resort the Community began trying to create whole new maps, this was not effective, however.

Bungie then released Foundry, which, again, changed the Halo experience. The ability to actually build a map from the ground up was fantastic. But even with foundry, we ran into limitations. We could only make small, interior maps. And the pieces were not designed to fit together perfectly.

Bungie followed up with Sandbox. Sandbox gave us the ability to build interior, and exterior maps, and even maps flying high above a fatal fall. The grid allowed us to organize our pieces, and the pieces fit together great. We have the best forge map we can get for Halo 3. But Forge is STILL lacking, we still don't have the control we want or need.

The issue? Forge is a gametype. Placing objects on pre-existing maps is sloppy, and takes too much time. We need something better.

The answer? Remove the gametype, remove the moniter, remove all that jazz. Create an actually map creation program.

I want a gridded screen, birds-eye view. I want to be able to accurately create every piece of geometry within the map itself. I want to MAKE the buildings, and the mountains, and the lakes, and rivers. I want textures to work with. And very diverse object placement (I want to snap objects onto the grid, and place them without that "grab" stuff. Just pick the object, pick where it goes, press A. Even if you keep traditional forge for weapon placement, that would be fine.

But to build a map from the ground up, we need something more like Doom Builder. Which features a full map creator, complete with the ability to create Elevators, Doors, Crushers, any function we need, AND a 3D mode, so you can go right in to the map, and edit smaller things with more precisions.. A more advanced version of this program is also being used for a new Community game called Project Vega that is being worked on by the Skulltag (Doom) Community.

Even on a second disk, this would give players what they need to have endless fun with Halo Reach. Please share your thoughts...

[Edited on 07.02.2009 8:21 PM PDT]

  • 07.02.2009 8:20 PM PDT
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Gamertag: ODST Buck

I don't think that I would like a full editor with elevation and all that jazz. It would make it too time consuming for the majority of the community.

  • 07.02.2009 8:24 PM PDT

I hunt for the Prophet of Contentment, the San 'Shyumm that murdered my son, and stole his birthright, his Energy Sword. They call our species Heretics. They claim to all that our tongues sting, our words a vile poison that feeds on the unworthy. I have seen the true face of Heresy. The head of a gallant warrior lay on the ground. His neck scorched and blistered, scarred by his own blade. I shall retrieve the weapon, and drive it through that bastard's heart! Punishment for his sins is nigh.

Posted by: Striped Dragon
I don't think that I would like a full editor with elevation and all that jazz. It would make it too time consuming for the majority of the community.

Actually, on Doom Builder, I can make maps in 5 minutes that take 5 hours of time in Forge.

  • 07.02.2009 8:29 PM PDT

But think of the possibilities from the best and most dedicated forgers out there!

Terrain editors and stuff like that I am down with.

  • 07.02.2009 8:29 PM PDT
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I would indeed love this. I can't forge for crap because I know it's too hard. So with this, I'll be able to make a map in my image. That would be nice.

  • 07.02.2009 8:32 PM PDT

I hunt for the Prophet of Contentment, the San 'Shyumm that murdered my son, and stole his birthright, his Energy Sword. They call our species Heretics. They claim to all that our tongues sting, our words a vile poison that feeds on the unworthy. I have seen the true face of Heresy. The head of a gallant warrior lay on the ground. His neck scorched and blistered, scarred by his own blade. I shall retrieve the weapon, and drive it through that bastard's heart! Punishment for his sins is nigh.

Yeah, I had lots of good times creating maps for Doom. Doom Builder actually allowed you to create maps for every gametype, including Invasion (which is just like Firefight) and Campaign.

  • 07.02.2009 11:24 PM PDT

Yea I have a great idea that, I think, would revolutionize Forge.

Being able to add friendly and enemy AI units, and assinging them jobs along with setting their difficulty.

There is a whole thread on it here.===>

Copy and paste this url: http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=34082224

[Edited on 07.02.2009 11:38 PM PDT]

  • 07.02.2009 11:37 PM PDT

We need something like in Far Cry 2. Maybe not as complex though.

But what I really want is to be able to spawn AI units, and assign them to teams, FFA, etc.

And I mean, covenant, Humans, and Flood.

[Edited on 07.02.2009 11:44 PM PDT]

  • 07.02.2009 11:43 PM PDT
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Posted by: xAndrewNeupertx
Yea I have a great idea that, I think, would revolutionize Forge.

Being able to add friendly and enemy AI units, and assinging them jobs along with setting their difficulty.

There is a whole thread on it here.===>
lazy link

  • 07.02.2009 11:46 PM PDT

I hunt for the Prophet of Contentment, the San 'Shyumm that murdered my son, and stole his birthright, his Energy Sword. They call our species Heretics. They claim to all that our tongues sting, our words a vile poison that feeds on the unworthy. I have seen the true face of Heresy. The head of a gallant warrior lay on the ground. His neck scorched and blistered, scarred by his own blade. I shall retrieve the weapon, and drive it through that bastard's heart! Punishment for his sins is nigh.

The reason Multiplayer AI doesn't work in Halo is because Halo Maps would not support them. (You could not program an AI to actually make it's way around Guardian, it would be far too complex.) See, the difference between Halo and other Shooters is the jumping, crossing large gaps, leaping to climb up to top-mid, AI could never be programmed to properly do this.

Also, if AI were possible, it wouldn't need to be forged, it would likely be an option you can set while creating your gametype.

BUT Forging AI into a Firefight or Campaign map in forge would be cool.

  • 07.02.2009 11:50 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Member

i actually like the gametype and what i was thinking is combine what you said with modern forging. like having a button short cut to edit textures and/or make buildings ect. because removing the gametype would end the fun and a lot of people would be ): ): ):

  • 07.03.2009 3:19 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

I personally don't use Forge. I don't have the patience necessary to get it all going to fit what I might have in my head. I'd like to be able to edit terrain, and would possibly use Forge more if I could accomplish the changes I want to make. There are a lot of really nice maps out there that have been forged with limited resources. Just imagine how badass a real level editor would be.

  • 07.03.2009 3:21 PM PDT

Jacoby

While i would like a bit more control i believe that what you are proposing is a bit over the top.
Also to be able to make a great map with what we are currently given is what makes the qualities of a truly creative and skilled gamer.
Another thing how would the maps be organized?All forge maps now are saved under the original, with no original what is there to be saved under?

[Edited on 07.03.2009 3:27 PM PDT]

  • 07.03.2009 3:25 PM PDT

Posted by: Duardo
I'd love to be a 10 year old and tell my mom I'm going on an adventure out into the world catching Pokemon, with her full support. Never mind the fact that there are rapists, criminals, and murders out there, or the fact that I may get killed by a Pokemon.

Luckily I have Pikachu.

Halo: Reach should ship with a second disc that would be a full map maker that installs to your Windows PC, with it you can make your own Halo: Reach Multiplayer maps from scratch, once your maps are completed you then save it to your fileshare and then from there you can download your map and play it from the game disc on your Xbox 360.

  • 07.03.2009 3:27 PM PDT

I hunt for the Prophet of Contentment, the San 'Shyumm that murdered my son, and stole his birthright, his Energy Sword. They call our species Heretics. They claim to all that our tongues sting, our words a vile poison that feeds on the unworthy. I have seen the true face of Heresy. The head of a gallant warrior lay on the ground. His neck scorched and blistered, scarred by his own blade. I shall retrieve the weapon, and drive it through that bastard's heart! Punishment for his sins is nigh.

Posted by: The BS Police
Halo: Reach should ship with a second disc that would be a full map maker that installs to your Windows PC, with it you can make your own Halo: Reach Multiplayer maps from scratch, once your maps are completed you then save it to your fileshare and then from there you can download your map and play it from the game disc on your Xbox 360.


This would work great. And for where the maps would be saved, just like Recent Maps, there can be a category for Custom Maps.

  • 07.04.2009 9:17 AM PDT
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Your friendly and eccentric Sangheili forum-poster. :)

I'd love to have a Forge disc with a full map editor on it. Just think of all the endless possibilities. People still play Halo CE because it has a map editor, and there are still great maps coming from the community.

  • 07.04.2009 9:19 AM PDT

I hunt for the Prophet of Contentment, the San 'Shyumm that murdered my son, and stole his birthright, his Energy Sword. They call our species Heretics. They claim to all that our tongues sting, our words a vile poison that feeds on the unworthy. I have seen the true face of Heresy. The head of a gallant warrior lay on the ground. His neck scorched and blistered, scarred by his own blade. I shall retrieve the weapon, and drive it through that bastard's heart! Punishment for his sins is nigh.

The only real issue with using a computer program though, is that modding would be FAR easier for everyone.

  • 07.04.2009 9:41 AM PDT

I hunt for the Prophet of Contentment, the San 'Shyumm that murdered my son, and stole his birthright, his Energy Sword. They call our species Heretics. They claim to all that our tongues sting, our words a vile poison that feeds on the unworthy. I have seen the true face of Heresy. The head of a gallant warrior lay on the ground. His neck scorched and blistered, scarred by his own blade. I shall retrieve the weapon, and drive it through that bastard's heart! Punishment for his sins is nigh.

UPDATE:

If any of you were interested, I should have included this before, here are some pictures of what were built from the ground up in Project Vega's map editor.

http://vega.skulltag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/01.png
http://vega.skulltag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/02.png
http://vega.skulltag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/03.png
http://vega.skulltag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/04.png

  • 07.06.2009 8:48 AM PDT

BOOM Headshot!

yes yes yes! I loved doom builder! And I loved forge, and i would love to not just have an object adder/mover, I want to actually build maps from a blank sheet of land. i also would like to have it a bit like Warcraft 3's World Editor

  • 07.06.2009 9:02 AM PDT
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As long as Bungie can do it without lag, I say yes.

  • 07.06.2009 9:21 AM PDT
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Posted by: Sp4rt4n119
Thank you sir, that was an epic rendition of this topic.


Posted by: Xx KNOX xX
and how!

The reason Forge works so well and is used so much is because it is simple.

Anyone can start a game and say "You know, I really don't like the Gravity Hammer and Mauler on Guardian, I think I'll replace them with a Fuel Rod Cannon and a pair of SMGs.

With a full blown map editor, you can have an amazing tool that no one will ever use.

For example, take a look at Far Cry 2's map editor. You can "spray" areas of trees, elevate and sink ground, make ground rough or smooth, change the position of the sun, place countless buildings and objects, place weapons, and so on, and so forth.

If one were to take the time to learn how to use the editor they could create something truly amazing and unique, but no one wants to do that.



I think what we really need is Forge with more options. Such as 45 degree snapping [like 90 degree snapping but also get nice diagonals], setting objects exactly in place and gluing them there instead of letting gravity steal them, changing the season/lighting/weather effects, and being able to create custom objects.

The custom object creator would be another menu in the Forge item list. You select "Create New Object" and then you get pieces that you can put together such as the regular forge objects as well as other small ones. When you are done you save and name the object and voila, two perfectly symmetrical bases.

  • 07.06.2009 9:28 AM PDT

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Posted by: x MibZ x
The reason Forge works so well and is used so much is because it is simple.

Anyone can start a game and say "You know, I really don't like the Gravity Hammer and Mauler on Guardian, I think I'll replace them with a Fuel Rod Cannon and a pair of SMGs.

With a full blown map editor, you can have an amazing tool that no one will ever use.

For example, take a look at Far Cry 2's map editor. You can "spray" areas of trees, elevate and sink ground, make ground rough or smooth, change the position of the sun, place countless buildings and objects, place weapons, and so on, and so forth.

If one were to take the time to learn how to use the editor they could create something truly amazing and unique, but no one wants to do that.



I think what we really need is Forge with more options. Such as 45 degree snapping [like 90 degree snapping but also get nice diagonals], setting objects exactly in place and gluing them there instead of letting gravity steal them, changing the season/lighting/weather effects, and being able to create custom objects.

The custom object creator would be another menu in the Forge item list. You select "Create New Object" and then you get pieces that you can put together such as the regular forge objects as well as other small ones. When you are done you save and name the object and voila, two perfectly symmetrical bases.


I could not agree more. If the ideas you mentioned where incorporated into Halo Reach's forge so many new map ideas could be made. The simpler forge is the more people will use it and learn to get good at it. As long as there is still the variety and customization options like interlocking, geo-merging, and being able to make objects float in mid air, that keep the veteran forgers happy and able to make map masterpieces. The only thing I would want to add would be conveyer belts, elevators, escalators, different size openable doors with control panels, and destroyable walls.

  • 07.06.2009 10:09 AM PDT

If Forge still exists, then its okay. It would certainly finalize the consoles foundation in user created content and stan a chance against PC. Maybe Bungie could even make it with some kind of Mod kit, that would be sweet....

  • 07.06.2009 10:18 AM PDT
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We need something like in Far Cry 2. Exactly what I was thinking. Far Cry's map creation editor is really fun.

[Edited on 07.06.2009 10:35 AM PDT]

  • 07.06.2009 10:35 AM PDT

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