Halo 3: ODST Forum
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  • Subject: Read my post before voting!
Subject: Read my post before voting!
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Posted by: longhorn10
Posted by: The_omen
The writings of some person on joystiq are backed up by the MS spokepersons' statement. I explained it perfectly in my last post. I don't know how much more clearer I have to be.
Even on kotaku they said the same thing. OMG Maybe kotaku and joystiq are in cahoots!

We are paying for the maps and halo 3 multiplayer twice. Why else would it go up in price? Because ODST doubled in size? That's what it must have done to constitute a $60 dollar price tag, since it was $30 to begin with.

I doubt it would double in that short amount of time, specially with the small team that was working on it. I have a detailed post on why exactly it didn't grow, it's on the last page If I recall correctly, give me a few minutes.


You gotta read the statement made by the spokesperson and not make assumptions about it. The statement in no way, shape or form, insinuates the addition of previous maps is included as a price mark-up. Those writers made their own assumptions about the justification of the price increase.

I don't see where you get this "double in price" idea. Nobody ever stated that ODST would be $30. Only statements I ever saw said that they do not see ODST developing as a full retail game. Fact of the matter is, the price of ODST would be $60 whether or not the old maps were included. Why? It doesn't cost MS anything to include them. Basic pricing.


Read my last post again, it's edited. Also Bungie themselves said it was worth 30-35. Who better to judge the value than the creators themselves? This is explained perfectly in my last post.

And the MS rep did mean that it was part of the price, look I broken it down for you:

[First sentence. MS says that ODST is more than an expansion because it has alot of content] [The rest of the paragraph lists the content that constitues the price] Why else would he list it? He didn't say it was an added bonus. So, since its obvious that the MS Rep said that the maps and H3 Multiplayer was part of the price, Joystiq (a completely un-bias gaming news website mind you) stated that we are paying for the content twice.

Now don't think I got this idea from them, I knew this since the moment that they stated it was $60.

  • 07.06.2009 2:54 PM PDT
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Posted by: The_omen
Also, thanks for not blowing out like alot of people did *cough*slegger*cough*. He just started capitalizing everything and screaming profanities! :P But really, thanks!


When did I do that?

  • 07.06.2009 2:54 PM PDT
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Posted by: Slegger
Posted by: The_omen
Also, thanks for not blowing out like alot of people did *cough*slegger*cough*. He just started capitalizing everything and screaming profanities! :P But really, thanks!


When did I do that?

Not so long ago.

Posted by: Slegger
HOW THE HELL DID WE ALREADY PAY FOR ALL THOSE? Jesus.

  • 07.06.2009 2:55 PM PDT
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Posted by: The_omen
Posted by: Slegger
Posted by: The_omen
Also, thanks for not blowing out like alot of people did *cough*slegger*cough*. He just started capitalizing everything and screaming profanities! :P But really, thanks!


When did I do that?

Not so long ago.

Posted by: Slegger
HOW THE HELL DID WE ALREADY PAY FOR ALL THOSE? Jesus.


Which topic was that in?

  • 07.06.2009 2:56 PM PDT
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Posted by: Slegger
Posted by: The_omen
Posted by: Slegger
Posted by: The_omen
Also, thanks for not blowing out like alot of people did *cough*slegger*cough*. He just started capitalizing everything and screaming profanities! :P But really, thanks!


When did I do that?

Not so long ago.

Posted by: Slegger
HOW THE HELL DID WE ALREADY PAY FOR ALL THOSE? Jesus.


Which topic was that in?


This one. Page one.

  • 07.06.2009 2:58 PM PDT

Riverside23: For all the women of the group, if you've got a real man at least let him have his big piece of chicken.

WhtButterflyLiz: lol. Bring home bigger chikkinz, then, real man!!!

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Posted by: The_omen
Read my last post again, it's edited. Also Bungie themselves said it was worth 30-35. Who better to judge the value than the creators themselves? This is explained perfectly in my last post.

And the MS rep did mean that it was part of the price, look I broken it down for you:

[First sentence. MS says that ODST is more than an expansion because it has alot of content] [The rest of the paragraph lists the content that constitues the price] Why else would he list it? He didn't say it was an added bonus. So, since its obvious that the MS Rep said that the maps and H3 Multiplayer was part of the price, Joystiq (a completely un-bias gaming news website mind you) stated that we are paying for the content twice.

Now don't think I got this idea from them, I knew this since the moment that they stated it was $60.



I would sure like to see where Bungie officially stated the possible $30-$35 price. A link would be nice.

Look, the rep didn't say it was part of the price. He didn't say, "Because we added this, the price is this." He justified the price by commenting on the value added by the inclusion of everything. You take out the maps, the price would remain the same. Simple variable costing. There's no arguing that.

  • 07.06.2009 2:59 PM PDT
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Posted by: The_omen
This one. Page one.


This quote, right?

Posted by: Slegger
How the hell are you paying for the same thing? You're getting a new Campaign, new Co-Op mode, new maps, and a Halo: Reach Beta invite.

HOW THE HELL DID WE ALREADY PAY FOR ALL THOSE? Jesus.


I don't believe that's capitalizing everything. I capitalized the part I needed to get into their heads, and apparently, it didn't work. If you're going to flame bait someone, make sure the bait isn't total fail.

  • 07.06.2009 3:02 PM PDT
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Posted by: longhorn10
He justified the price by commenting on the value added by the inclusion of everything. You take out the maps, the price would remain the same. Simple variable costing. There's no arguing that.

How does the price stay the same if the value goes down? According to you what the MS rep listed was just a value thing. How is the price not affected by the value? ... It is implied that he listed what constituted the price. At least that's what I, Joystiq, Kotaku, and 48 others (from poll) see. Just as he didn't say "this is what the price is based on" he didn't say "this is just an addon".

Also I'm trying to find where bungie said it was 35 dollars. I think it was on a podcast.

There's alot of people that say so too so I'm pretty sure they did. Although, I'll keep looking.

[Edited on 07.06.2009 3:18 PM PDT]

  • 07.06.2009 3:14 PM PDT
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Posted by: Slegger
Posted by: The_omen
This one. Page one.


This quote, right?

Posted by: Slegger
How the hell are you paying for the same thing? You're getting a new Campaign, new Co-Op mode, new maps, and a Halo: Reach Beta invite.

HOW THE HELL DID WE ALREADY PAY FOR ALL THOSE? Jesus.


I don't believe that's capitalizing everything. I capitalized the part I needed to get into their heads, and apparently, it didn't work. If you're going to flame bait someone, make sure the bait isn't total fail.

Hyperboles are part of speech. I'm sorry if I offended you.

  • 07.06.2009 3:15 PM PDT
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Posted by: The_omen
Posted by: Slegger
Posted by: The_omen
This one. Page one.


This quote, right?

Posted by: Slegger
How the hell are you paying for the same thing? You're getting a new Campaign, new Co-Op mode, new maps, and a Halo: Reach Beta invite.

HOW THE HELL DID WE ALREADY PAY FOR ALL THOSE? Jesus.


I don't believe that's capitalizing everything. I capitalized the part I needed to get into their heads, and apparently, it didn't work. If you're going to flame bait someone, make sure the bait isn't total fail.

Hyperboles are part of speech. I'm sorry if I offended you.


You weren't exaggerating. You were serious. Stop trying to act high and mighty on the internet.

  • 07.06.2009 3:22 PM PDT
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Posted by: Slegger
Posted by: The_omen
Posted by: Slegger
Posted by: The_omen
This one. Page one.


This quote, right?

Posted by: Slegger
How the hell are you paying for the same thing? You're getting a new Campaign, new Co-Op mode, new maps, and a Halo: Reach Beta invite.

HOW THE HELL DID WE ALREADY PAY FOR ALL THOSE? Jesus.


I don't believe that's capitalizing everything. I capitalized the part I needed to get into their heads, and apparently, it didn't work. If you're going to flame bait someone, make sure the bait isn't total fail.

Hyperboles are part of speech. I'm sorry if I offended you.


You weren't exaggerating. You were serious. Stop trying to act high and mighty on the internet.
I apologized already, what more do you want? Here

Now please, I urge you to stop posting unless it contributes to the discussion. Thanks!

  • 07.06.2009 3:25 PM PDT
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Posted by: The_omen
Posted by: Slegger
Posted by: The_omen
Posted by: Slegger
Posted by: The_omen
This one. Page one.


This quote, right?

Posted by: Slegger
How the hell are you paying for the same thing? You're getting a new Campaign, new Co-Op mode, new maps, and a Halo: Reach Beta invite.

HOW THE HELL DID WE ALREADY PAY FOR ALL THOSE? Jesus.


I don't believe that's capitalizing everything. I capitalized the part I needed to get into their heads, and apparently, it didn't work. If you're going to flame bait someone, make sure the bait isn't total fail.

Hyperboles are part of speech. I'm sorry if I offended you.


You weren't exaggerating. You were serious. Stop trying to act high and mighty on the internet.
I apologized already, what more do you want? Here

Now please, I urge you to stop posting unless it contributes to the discussion. Thanks!


Your sarcasm is way too obvious.

  • 07.06.2009 3:29 PM PDT
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Posted by: Slegger
Your sarcasm is way too obvious.

Seriously though, no more playing around.

So, any more arguments?

  • 07.06.2009 5:22 PM PDT

chris2pher

we are not paying for something twice its because they are giving us new maps

  • 07.06.2009 5:32 PM PDT
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Posted by: Chris2pher
we are not paying for something twice its because they are giving us new maps

Yes, they are giving us new maps, but what about the old ones? Are we paying for those? According to Microsoft, yes we are. Not only the maps but also H3's multiplayer.

Are you sure we're not paying for the things twice?

[Edited on 07.06.2009 5:40 PM PDT]

  • 07.06.2009 5:38 PM PDT

3-6 hrs for a new campain
and firefight and all the maps equals $60?
That's unfair IMO! I payed for all of the maps and I wouldn't have if I knew that I could just get them with ODST!
Sure, I'll still get ODST, but I still have the right to be pissed off about it!

  • 07.06.2009 6:49 PM PDT

Riverside23: For all the women of the group, if you've got a real man at least let him have his big piece of chicken.

WhtButterflyLiz: lol. Bring home bigger chikkinz, then, real man!!!

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Suck it JoeSki!!!

Posted by: The_omen
Posted by: longhorn10
He justified the price by commenting on the value added by the inclusion of everything. You take out the maps, the price would remain the same. Simple variable costing. There's no arguing that.

How does the price stay the same if the value goes down? According to you what the MS rep listed was just a value thing. How is the price not affected by the value? ... It is implied that he listed what constituted the price. At least that's what I, Joystiq, Kotaku, and 48 others (from poll) see. Just as he didn't say "this is what the price is based on" he didn't say "this is just an addon".

Also I'm trying to find where bungie said it was 35 dollars. I think it was on a podcast.

There's alot of people that say so too so I'm pretty sure they did. Although, I'll keep looking.


Price isn't reflective of the value. If price reflected value then it would have different prices in different regions. The price is reflective of the cost. The cost remains the same whether or not the maps are included. I really don't have the time nor patience to explain cost recovery, variable vs. fixed costs, overhead, etc.

  • 07.06.2009 7:26 PM PDT

Posted by: longhorn10
Posted by: The_omen
Posted by: longhorn10
He justified the price by commenting on the value added by the inclusion of everything. You take out the maps, the price would remain the same. Simple variable costing. There's no arguing that.

How does the price stay the same if the value goes down? According to you what the MS rep listed was just a value thing. How is the price not affected by the value? ... It is implied that he listed what constituted the price. At least that's what I, Joystiq, Kotaku, and 48 others (from poll) see. Just as he didn't say "this is what the price is based on" he didn't say "this is just an addon".

Also I'm trying to find where bungie said it was 35 dollars. I think it was on a podcast.

There's alot of people that say so too so I'm pretty sure they did. Although, I'll keep looking.


Price isn't reflective of the value. If price reflected value then it would have different prices in different regions. The price is reflective of the cost. The cost remains the same whether or not the maps are included. I really don't have the time nor patience to explain cost recovery, variable vs. fixed costs, overhead, etc.


The mapsand Halo 3 MULTIPLAYER are factored in the cost! That's what we're mad about! What kind of expansion pack would cost the full price of the original game!? All this time people who weren't cheap and who bought the map packs on Halo 3 are being ripped off!

  • 07.06.2009 7:46 PM PDT

Riverside23: For all the women of the group, if you've got a real man at least let him have his big piece of chicken.

WhtButterflyLiz: lol. Bring home bigger chikkinz, then, real man!!!

DEATHPIMP72: *throws pterodactyl on table*
Suck it JoeSki!!!

Posted by: GrnDragn
The mapsand Halo 3 MULTIPLAYER are factored in the cost! That's what we're mad about! What kind of expansion pack would cost the full price of the original game!? All this time people who weren't cheap and who bought the map packs on Halo 3 are being ripped off!


Show me the press release where MS declared that the multiplayer content is added to the price. The quote from the MS spokesperson states that the additional content are "added value." Added value is not justification for a price mark-up. It does not cost MS anything to include the maps in the game. Take them out, price remains the same. The only argument anyone has is that MS may have added to the margin because of all the added value of additional content, but that is not has nothing to do with "charging twice" for something. I have all the maps, bought them all the day they were released. I'm not being ripped off, you're not being ripped off.

  • 07.06.2009 7:52 PM PDT
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Posted by: longhorn10
Posted by: The_omen
Posted by: longhorn10
He justified the price by commenting on the value added by the inclusion of everything. You take out the maps, the price would remain the same. Simple variable costing. There's no arguing that.

How does the price stay the same if the value goes down? According to you what the MS rep listed was just a value thing. How is the price not affected by the value? ... It is implied that he listed what constituted the price. At least that's what I, Joystiq, Kotaku, and 48 others (from poll) see. Just as he didn't say "this is what the price is based on" he didn't say "this is just an addon".

Also I'm trying to find where bungie said it was 35 dollars. I think it was on a podcast.

There's alot of people that say so too so I'm pretty sure they did. Although, I'll keep looking.


Price isn't reflective of the value. If price reflected value then it would have different prices in different regions. The price is reflective of the cost. The cost remains the same whether or not the maps are included. I really don't have the time nor patience to explain cost recovery, variable vs. fixed costs, overhead, etc.


The overhead in this case actually is lower than Halo 3's because it took more man power to make Halo 3 than ODST (hence the smaller dev team). It also took less materials to make it (same engine, rehashed character models etc)

Variable cost is volume-related (and are paid per quantity). How exactly does this relate to the fact that we're paying for something twice?

Wouldn't this mean that the cost heightens depending on the quantatiy of the package? Well the quantatiy here heighten because of the addition of Halo 3 multiplayer. It is stated in the links I've provided in my past posts. You're interpreting it wrong. I, Kotaku, Joystiq, and 59 others have interpreted it correctly.

it's not like MS is going to flat out say "WE'RE ROBBING YOU". They're saying it in a way that will confuse people.

[Edited on 07.06.2009 8:05 PM PDT]

  • 07.06.2009 7:57 PM PDT

What's hot, sexy and purple?

Ayane (and the Wraith :-D)

Yes, the Halo fans paying twice.

And Bungie should do something against it. The Halo fan will be forced to buy Halo ODST for the FULL Halo 3 multiplayer experience.....3 new Maps are only ODST exclusive. Releasing the 3 new maps on the marketplace and making an ODST-Only Version of the new add-on would be nice.

But again MS can -blam!- with the Halo fans and they wont do it. And the 60$ price and most of the community members here are pure proof. Protecting any of MS statements is just ignorant.

Would you buy Bungies upcoming title, Halo Reach, for 100$ (example) or more just because it has the magic word "Halo" printed on the cover?

[Edited on 07.06.2009 8:06 PM PDT]

  • 07.06.2009 8:03 PM PDT

Riverside23: For all the women of the group, if you've got a real man at least let him have his big piece of chicken.

WhtButterflyLiz: lol. Bring home bigger chikkinz, then, real man!!!

DEATHPIMP72: *throws pterodactyl on table*
Suck it JoeSki!!!

Posted by: The_omen
The overhead in this case actually is lower than Halo 3's because it took more man power to make Halo 3 than ODST (hence the smaller dev team). It also took less materials to make it (same engine, rehashed character models etc)

Variable cost is volume-related (and are paid per quantity). How exactly does this relate to the fact that we're paying for something twice?

Wouldn't this mean that the cost heightens depending on the quantatiy of the package? Well the quantatiy here heighten because of the addition of Halo 3 multiplayer. It is stated in the links I've provided in my past posts. You're interpreting it wrong. I, Kotaku, Joystiq, and 59 others have interpreted it correctly.

it's not like MS is going to flat out say "WE'RE ROBBING YOU". They're saying it in a way that will confuse people.


First off, please don't back up your arguments with a reference to your poll results, it undermines your credibility. There's a reason nobody gives credibility to them. Any 12 year old with access to the internet and a parent paying for their games can say, "omg yes!" If this was a forum accessible only to MS management and PhDs, then I'd totally give credence to that statement.

Second, good, you have some idea about costing. Let me ask you this? What is the variable cost of including the maps in ODST? Negligible, right? So we are paying to recover MS/Bungie's fixed costs and overhead. Paying for the DLC over the market place was to recover the cost of developing said DLC. That cost has been recovered. Paying for ODST covers the cost of developing ODST. Did Bungie have any costs associated with including the old maps in ODST? I didn't think so.

  • 07.06.2009 8:19 PM PDT
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Posted by: longhorn10
Posted by: The_omen
The overhead in this case actually is lower than Halo 3's because it took more man power to make Halo 3 than ODST (hence the smaller dev team). It also took less materials to make it (same engine, rehashed character models etc)

Variable cost is volume-related (and are paid per quantity). How exactly does this relate to the fact that we're paying for something twice?

Wouldn't this mean that the cost heightens depending on the quantatiy of the package? Well the quantatiy here heighten because of the addition of Halo 3 multiplayer. It is stated in the links I've provided in my past posts. You're interpreting it wrong. I, Kotaku, Joystiq, and 59 others have interpreted it correctly.

it's not like MS is going to flat out say "WE'RE ROBBING YOU". They're saying it in a way that will confuse people.


First off, please don't back up your arguments with a reference to your poll results, it undermines your credibility. There's a reason nobody gives credibility to them. Any 12 year old with access to the internet and a parent paying for their games can say, "omg yes!" If this was a forum accessible only to MS management and PhDs, then I'd totally give credence to that statement.

Second, good, you have some idea about costing. Let me ask you this? What is the variable cost of including the maps in ODST? Negligible, right? So we are paying to recover MS/Bungie's fixed costs and overhead. Paying for the DLC over the market place was to recover the cost of developing said DLC. That cost has been recovered. Paying for ODST covers the cost of developing ODST. Did Bungie have any costs associated with including the old maps in ODST? I didn't think so.
No they did not. That's what makes this outrageous. Look, everything you've told me is based off how companies set the cost of something. It doesn't prove that they aren't making you pay for it twice. You're telling me that if it took no work to add it, they shouldn't be charging for it, that is not to say they aren't charging for it though, right? You know many people aren't aware about how a price is set (taking everything into consideration), so maybe MS knows this too and is taking advantage of it.

All I'm saying is that whether or not marketing cost (rules) say that you shouldn't put a price on something if there is no work going into, it doesn't negate the fact that MS could put a price on it.

Why exactly would the price go up? Because ODST grew to more than what it was excepted? Maybe. Who's to say? No one. So far, the only good reason is that they are charing for the maps.

[Edited on 07.06.2009 8:32 PM PDT]

  • 07.06.2009 8:29 PM PDT

Riverside23: For all the women of the group, if you've got a real man at least let him have his big piece of chicken.

WhtButterflyLiz: lol. Bring home bigger chikkinz, then, real man!!!

DEATHPIMP72: *throws pterodactyl on table*
Suck it JoeSki!!!

Posted by: The_omen
No they did not. That's what makes this outrageous. Look, everything you've told me is based off how companies set the cost of something. It doesn't prove that they aren't making you pay for it twice. You're telling me that if it took no work to add it, they shouldn't be charging for it, that is not to say they aren't charging for it though, right? You know many people aren't aware about how a price is set (taking everything into consideration), so maybe MS knows this too and is taking advantage of it.

All I'm saying is that whether or not marketing cost (rules) say that you shouldn't put a price on something if there is no work going into it, it doesn't negate the fact that MS could put a price on it.

Why exactly would the price go up? Because ODST grew to more than what it was excepted? Maybe. Who's to say? No one. So far, the only good reason is that they are charing for the maps.


I think it is safe to assume that when Bungie originally planned ODST and made the statements they didn't see this game as a full fledged retail game, and that the game expanded beyond their expectations. Now does that added content justify the retail price tag,? Maybe. The only argument I see is MS sticking an extra margin on top of this content because it is a Halo title, and people would not hesitate to pay extra for something with Halo on the cover. And that is simply charging more for a popular game. I would bet my bottom dollar that if the maps were not included in ODST, the price would not have changed.

  • 07.06.2009 8:36 PM PDT

Posted by: longhorn10
Posted by: The_omen
No they did not. That's what makes this outrageous. Look, everything you've told me is based off how companies set the cost of something. It doesn't prove that they aren't making you pay for it twice. You're telling me that if it took no work to add it, they shouldn't be charging for it, that is not to say they aren't charging for it though, right? You know many people aren't aware about how a price is set (taking everything into consideration), so maybe MS knows this too and is taking advantage of it.

All I'm saying is that whether or not marketing cost (rules) say that you shouldn't put a price on something if there is no work going into it, it doesn't negate the fact that MS could put a price on it.

Why exactly would the price go up? Because ODST grew to more than what it was excepted? Maybe. Who's to say? No one. So far, the only good reason is that they are charing for the maps.


I think it is safe to assume that when Bungie originally planned ODST and made the statements they didn't see this game as a full fledged retail game, and that the game expanded beyond their expectations. Now does that added content justify the retail price tag,? Maybe. The only argument I see is MS sticking an extra margin on top of this content because it is a Halo title, and people would not hesitate to pay extra for something with Halo on the cover. And that is simply charging more for a popular game. I would bet my bottom dollar that if the maps were not included in ODST, the price would not have changed.


I bet it would have. People are only getting it for a few things:

1. MMP Pt. 2
2. Recon armor

[Edited on 07.06.2009 8:43 PM PDT]

  • 07.06.2009 8:43 PM PDT