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  • Subject: SCR in Halo: Reach. The ideal starting weapon.
Subject: SCR in Halo: Reach. The ideal starting weapon.
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As anyone who's been in the Optimatch forum (or even a few loud pregame lobbies) knows, Halo's starting weapons have always been very controversial. It's clear that we haven't yet seen the ideal starting weapon. BR, AR, SMG, Magnum?

How about something new? Find a compromise.


What are we aiming for?

The goal is to make an extremely versatile weapon that is less effective than every other weapon in the game when the other weapons are used at their optimum range. It can obviously be more effective than all the other weapons when they are not used at their optimum range.

The ideal weapon would need to add depth to the gameplay. I feel that this is accomplished when the weapon is a good base weapon but leaves players still looking to improve their arsenal by allowing them to specialise at certain ranges and situations with other weapons.

For more gameplay depth, players should not respawn with weapons equal to the typical weapons opposing up-players are holding (see: BR spawns). However, unlike AR spawns, players should be able to deal very worrying amounts of damage to these up-players from any range and with some rock solid aim, even take them down upon respawning.

In order to combat spawn killing, the ideal starting weapon would need to be effective at all ranges and be able to deal significant damage, and be able to remove scopes from opposing mid-long range rifles and sniper rifles, at all ranges. The limiting factor would simply be players' aim ability, which would prevent the weapon from being too effective at longer ranges, maintaining the gameplay depth.

For the starting weapon to lend itself better to competitive (see: ranked) games, it should also offer the potential for wide skill gaps to develop with the use of it. Basically, there should be potential for some players to be significantly more potent threats than other players with this weapon.

An ideal starting weapon would also need to accommodate new players. Whilst the weapon would need to offer wide skill gaps, it should also not be too difficult for new players to get to grips with. The player base cannot expect to grow when new players only find overwhelming frustration with tricky starting weapons.


Let's get to the details

Here is how I would make the ideal starting weapon for Halo: Reach:

Name: Standard Combat Rifle (SCR)

The name is not important. I just like this one. Simple; to the point, much unlike this thread.

Size: Two-handed

The weapon would not be dual-wieldable. This way, the weapon can be effective alone, in stead of either too ineffective alone and/or too effective when dual-wielded. It avoids the "half weapon" scenario found with the SMG in Halo 2, noted and corrected by Bungie for Halo 3.

Fire Mode: Fully Automatic

Fully Automatic weapons can allow for wider skill-gaps to develop based on players' aim-ability. This is for the simple reason that it is more difficult to maintain accuracy of aim on a moving opponent for the duration of a fight than it is to place your reticule over the opponent only at the instances you pulse the trigger (see: BR). This may seem a weird reality because in the past we have only seen Halo's fully automatic weapons be fairly inaccurate and therefore arguably less skill based (see: used at close range, luck factor from random bullet spread) . This weapon, however, would be very accurate.

I don't doubt also that a fully automatic starting weapon would be the right design choice for accommodating new players.

Headshots: Instant kill against shield-less opponents only

Giving weapons the ability to get headshots, rewards the players who have better aim ability and therefore allows for a wider skill gap to develop. Although certainly headshots are not appropriate for all weapons, this weapon would suit them perfectly. Generating wider skill gaps from this is only good for the game. Of course, headshots from this weapon should not instantly kill opponents who have full shields like the Sniper Rifle, but only weak players.

Accuracy: Very High

In order to validate a weapon capable of headshots, you need to only have a small amount or zero bullet spread. If there is too much bullet spread, headshots don't work in a competitive sense given that bullets are not sufficiently under the control of the player. Therefore, the purpose of the headshot ability (to reward the player with the more accurate aim) is not fulfilled as two things can too likely occur: the reticule is not centred on the opponents head but a bullet hits it randomly; the bullet is centred on the opponent's head but bullets miss it randomly.

Since the bullet spread would therefore necessarily be minimal, bordering on zero, the size of the reticule should be fairly small in order to more accurately reflect the capable accuracy of the weapon. I would suggest a reticule of roughly, if not exactly, the same size as that of the BR.

I drew up an example of a reticule i think would work here.
(From left to right; BR, AR, SCR.)


In terms of competitive balance, game depth and lovely, wide skill-gaps, a highly accurate starting weapon is ideal. One problem does arise from this though which is that new players may simply struggle to hit the target. At least with less accurate, high rate of fire weapons, new players can expect to damage opponents a decent amount even with their somewhat fumbled aim, thanks to the bullets hitting a wider area.

That's why we have bullet magnetism. There would need to be some bullet magnetism to aid new and casual players since we cannot expect them to be as accurate as us veterans. Bullet magnetism is also necessary in a certain amount regardless of this; in order for the game to function better in an online environment by combating lag and latency.

[Edited on 07.13.2009 10:23 AM PDT]

  • 07.08.2009 1:12 PM PDT
Subject: How to make the ideal starting weapon for Halo: Reach's multipl...
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Scope: None

To maintain a level of depth to the capabilities of the weapons, the starting weapon should not be the ideal choice for all ranges. It should give players a chance at taking on any opponent, but also leave them at a disadvantage at all times supposing the opponents are positioned appropriately for the weapons they're carrying. To give other weapons, such as the BR, the edge at longer ranges, this starting weapon would not have a scope.

Bullet Velocity: Extremely High

In order for average players to have a decent chance of alleviating the problem of distant snipers when they spawn, the starting weapons' bullets would need to travel extremely quickly through the air. If the bullets velocity was extremely high and they hit the target near-instantly (see: Sniper Rifle), it would help players to get a few bullets on distant snipers or lasers, in the hope of removing their scope at least a couple of times.

It would already be hard enough for most players to hit targets at long range given the lack of scope, so extremely high bullet velocity should help players do this without making it too easy.

Rate of Fire: 360 rounds per minute (6 rounds per second)

This rate of fire is actually quite low (40% less than the AR). The rate of fire cannot be too high because of the accuracy of the weapon. Given that this weapon is very accurate, it is possible for very skilled players to make a large percentage of bullets fired hit the opponent at medium-long range. Therefore, a low rate of fire is necessary so that opponents are able to use their scopes to their advantage at least for some of the fight without constantly being hit and having their scopes removed.

If the rate of fire were much higher, the damage per hit would also need to be reduced so that the weapon was not too effective. (Remember that one goal is to make the weapon less effective than all the other weapons in their respective ranges.) If this were the case, the magazine size would need to be very large in order to allow players with a typical 50% accuracy to kill opponents without needing to reload. I think it keeps it a lot simpler with smaller magazines.

Damage per Hit: Medium (6 Hit Points)

I will assume that a player in Halo: Reach's multiplayer will have the same shields and health as in Halo 3 just to make it easier to explain. In Halo 3, players have 115 hit points, 70 of which are shields and 45 of which are health.

Supposing each bullet from this starting weapon dealt 6 hit points, it would require 12 bullets to remove an opponent's shields and from 12 to 20 bullets to get the kill depending on when/if bullets hit the head. (Yes, this is the same as the BR.)

There really aren't any gameplay choices that relate solely to damage per hit. It is just the number that crops up as the result of already deciding on three things; the intended effectiveness of the weapon relative to others, the accuracy and the rate of fire. 6 hit points just works best with purpose it is designed for.

Minimum Kill Time: 2 Seconds

With a rate of fire of 6 rounds per second and a 12 bullet minimum to kill an opponent, it would obviously take exactly 2 seconds, minimum, to kill someone. (Ignoring any damage to the opponent by any other means.)

This is intentionally just slightly longer than that of the AR and BR, making it slightly less effective than the AR at the AR's optimum range, and slightly less effective than the BR at close range, but increasingly less effective at longer ranges.

Magazine Size: 32

This weapon should have just enough bullets in a clip for a player with good aim ability to be able to make a kill at long range. Keeping in mind that there would be no scope on the weapon and it would take anywhere from 12 to 20 bullets to get a kill, at a guess I would say 32 bullets would be about right for this.

It should also not have enough bullets in a clip to kill too many people without needing to reload, nor to easily be able to take down long range targets. That would only serve to narrow the potential skill gap, which is something we don't want.

Reload Time: 1.65 Seconds

This is just less than that of the BR and AR. Given that both these weapons would supposedly still be in the game, I think that a lower reload time, whilst not necessary at all, might offer a nice little perk for the less-well equipped player.

Just for a reference point, this reload time would mean that if a BR and SCR player fought and both needed to reload at the same time, the SCR would be able to fire two bullets before the BR had finished reloading.

Summary and Comparison

Weapon: Standard Combat Rifle
Size: Two-handed
Fire mode: Fully Automatic
Headshots: Instant kill against shield-less opponents only
Accuracy: Very High
Scope: None
Bullet Velocity: Extremely High
Rate of Fire: 360 Rounds per Minute (6 Rounds per Second)
Damage per Hit: Medium (6 Hit Points)
Minimum Kill Time: 2 Seconds (12 Rounds)
Magazine Size: 32
Reload Time: 1.65 Seconds

Weapon: Assault Rifle
Size: Two-handed
Fire Mode: Fully Automatic
Headshots: Incapable
Accuracy: Medium
Scope: None
Bullet Velocity: High
Rate of Fire: 600 Rounds per Minute (10 Rounds per Second)
Damage per Hit: Medium (7.5 Hit Points)
Minimum Kill Time: 1.6 Seconds (16 Rounds)
Magazine Size: 32
Reload Time: 2 Seconds

Weapon: Battle Rifle
Size: Two-handed
Fire mode: 3 Round Bursts
Headshots: Instant kill against shield-less opponents only
Accuracy: Very High
Scope: 2x
Bullet Velocity: High
Rate of Fire: Approx. 390 rounds per minute (Approx. 6.5 rounds per second)
Damage per Hit: Medium (6 Hit Points)
Minimum Kill Time: Approx. 1.84 Seconds (12 Rounds / 4 Bursts)
Magazine Size: 36
Reload Time: 2 Seconds

I realise this is a whole heap of numbers and detailed descriptions. I'd be very naive to think anything similar to this weapon would turn up in Halo: Reach. I am still assuming that the gameplay will be similar enough to Halo: CE/2/3 that the weapons we're used to will all be used and in the same way. If the general idea behind this starting weapon gets across that's great:

"The goal is to make an extremely versatile weapon that is less effective than every other weapon in the game when the other weapons are used at their optimum range, but still capable of dealing significant damage at all ranges. It should offer the potential for wide skill gaps to develop whilst not being too difficult for new players."

Starting weapon. Discuss?

  • 07.08.2009 1:13 PM PDT

Remember,
It is easy to be male
it is another thing to be a man.

Your weapon seems to deal with spawn weapon issues well.
I only have one slight concern. If you make it highly accurate it might just turn into another BR. Apart from that it seems good.

[Edited on 07.08.2009 1:22 PM PDT]

  • 07.08.2009 1:22 PM PDT

I like this idea. Really, this is what I imagined the Halo 3 Assault Rifle would be like when I first heard that they put it back in. To me, this weapon sounds kind of like a somewhat more powerful Halo 3 pistol, which to my mind would make the perfect spawn weapon.

One thing though is that the clip size seems a little large to me. I personally would make it slightly smaller, as IIRC 32 is the same size clip as the Assault Rifle, which would be contrary to the idea of having the weapons be different. Honestly though, this isn't really a big deal, as I personally think that if this idea were to be implemented it would be as a replacement for the Assault Rifle, as the AR is really only of use as a spawn weapon to begin with.

  • 07.08.2009 1:25 PM PDT
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This is completely ridiculous. Fully automatic weapons should not be capable of getting headshots. Period. If the "Standard Combat Rifle" were an actual starting weapon, nobody would even bother picking up a battle rifle. Especially if the accuracy is "Very High."

  • 07.08.2009 2:04 PM PDT
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common sense is not commonly used

it might work although I think full auto headshots might be too powerful. also I assume there is no zoom capability

  • 07.08.2009 2:11 PM PDT
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Posted by: MuffinMan116
This is completely ridiculous. Fully automatic weapons should not be capable of getting headshots. Period. If the "Standard Combat Rifle" were an actual starting weapon, nobody would even bother picking up a battle rifle. Especially if the accuracy is "Very High."

Please explain why fully automatic weapons should never be capable of headshots. It has a small reticule and is very accurate, with a low rate of fire. These three factors more than validate the headshot capability. Fully automatic/single shot/ burst fire has no influence on the appropriateness of headshots. If you disagree, please explain.

Plenty of people would be wise to pick up a BR with the SCR starting weapon because it has a scope which makes it much more effective at longer ranges, and kills much faster at all ranges. It also has a larger magazine. You should also note that the minimum kill time for the BR is approximately 0.16 seconds less than the SCR (8% faster), but other factors would in reality make this margin much wider. Factors such as "that it is more difficult to maintain accuracy of aim on a moving opponent for the duration of a fight than it is to place your reticule over the opponent only at the instances you pulse the trigger."

Posted by: Blam417
it might work although I think full auto headshots might be too powerful. also I assume there is no zoom capability

Just to clarify, the headshots won't kill unless the player is shieldless. Even if a player were to hit every bullet from the SCR and the head at the moment the shields depleted, a similarly accurate BR player would kill faster.

[Edited on 07.08.2009 2:32 PM PDT]

  • 07.08.2009 2:26 PM PDT
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that sounds pretty cool but what does it look like?

[Edited on 07.08.2009 2:28 PM PDT]

  • 07.08.2009 2:27 PM PDT

The impossible is always possible...hey wait a minute if it's impossible...

The acuracy should be lower. Say you fire a burst of five bullets, three are definate, the other two aren't. one has a 60% of hitting while the other has a 50% chance of hitting. This way you can spray but some won't hit. You can kill a opponet with spray, but it will be more effective to burst by a slight amount. What do you guys think?:

  • 07.08.2009 2:39 PM PDT

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Seems great for a starting weapon, read all of it and I totally agree.

  • 07.08.2009 2:47 PM PDT
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I'd say make it have a smaller clip and possibly longer reload time to make the BR and AR look more desireable.

  • 07.08.2009 2:49 PM PDT

Pretty much, you're asking for a more accurate AR. Most people will agree with you. However, the accuracy of this weapon should not be even CLOSE to the BR's. Then it would be stupidly awesome (like the BR) and no one would drop it!

  • 07.08.2009 2:54 PM PDT

Posted by: Sonic343
I don't think you are allowed to talk about bungie on Bungie.net.

Sounds rather like the ODST smg, no?

  • 07.08.2009 2:59 PM PDT

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Vote for the most underated weapon

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Wow blown away by what a great post this is. You haven risen much higher than any other person that complains about the starting weapon and weapon balance.

Not only have you given an idea but you given specific details on how it would work.

You dont get a cookie but a cookie cake.

This thread should be pinned a top forum topic at least.

  • 07.08.2009 3:03 PM PDT

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Vote for the most underated weapon

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Posted by: ADRENALYNE 13
Pretty much, you're asking for a more accurate AR. Most people will agree with you. However, the accuracy of this weapon should not be even CLOSE to the BR's. Then it would be stupidly awesome (like the BR) and no one would drop it!


Thing is he explained there is no scope plus it would not be as effective in the brs range.

  • 07.08.2009 3:04 PM PDT

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Hmmm although its a nice idea it just sounds like a slightly tweaked AR that is slightly weaker but more accurate and capable of headshots.

I still think AR or BR are the best start weapons. You can keep them or upgrade, but they're not power weapons or too weak either.

  • 07.08.2009 3:08 PM PDT
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Sounds pretty good but IDK. Maybe the AR should get a range increase and we should see a new pistol that can be used at long range but isn't better than the BR. Those would be are starting weapons.

An all in one gun seems like it would create to many problems with the game.

  • 07.08.2009 3:13 PM PDT
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That sounds like you put a great deal of thought into that idea. I also think that the starting weapon should be the "middle ground", forcing the player to decide if he wants to play close range (AR) or long range (BR), but still be a weapon that can gain kills.

The gun that I can visualize being the perfect fit for this mold would be the MA5K. It would be single shot yet still fully automatic and have a headshot bonus. You can hold down the right trigger for full power or pulse it for accuracy. Here is a video of the MA5K to help you visualize what I'm trying to say.

MA5K

  • 07.08.2009 3:17 PM PDT

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If it's full auto, I think it would be better suited as not being a headshot weapon. I made up a weapon called the MA5K (its from the novels, but we dont know how it operates) which has:

45 rounds/magazine
10 rounds/second
full automatic
single shot accuracy (H2 BR), burst fire accuracy (H3 BR), auto accuracy (H1 AR)
10 headshots/20 bodyshots to kill
2x scope

When firing in single shot, the ROF would be very low (click the trigger once). You can also pulse the trigger to get a burst of 2-5 rounds which is fairly accurate at midrange, and you can hold the trigger down for automatic fire which is very inaccurate.

  • 07.08.2009 3:19 PM PDT

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Your weapon is far too overpowered for a starting weapon. Sniper rifle velocity bullets, with very little to no spread, in a fully automatic weapon? The recoil would have to be immense and the bullets do far less damage than what you have suggested for this weapon to be viable.

Then perhaps it would address the issues (which are virtually non-existant IMO) of long range snipers having their scopes taken out, and also being able to put up a fight. Close range this would weaken the weapon, obviously, but it would combat long range threats moderately well, but also encourage players to switch out, which is what you say you want, yet tbh I would be quite happy rolling with just starters for the whole game if it had the stats you describe.

In a word your rifle is overpowered completely. Re-spec it.

  • 07.08.2009 3:26 PM PDT

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Wouldn't it be too powerful a weapon?

  • 07.08.2009 3:47 PM PDT
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Posted by: The GunOfTheWest
Your weapon is far too overpowered for a starting weapon. Sniper rifle velocity bullets, with very little to no spread, in a fully automatic weapon? The recoil would have to be immense and the bullets do far less damage than what you have suggested for this weapon to be viable.

Then perhaps it would address the issues (which are virtually non-existant IMO) of long range snipers having their scopes taken out, and also being able to put up a fight. Close range this would weaken the weapon, obviously, but it would combat long range threats moderately well, but also encourage players to switch out, which is what you say you want, yet tbh I would be quite happy rolling with just starters for the whole game if it had the stats you describe.

In a word your rifle is overpowered completely. Re-spec it.


I'm not sure why you think it'd be completely overpowered and therefore inviable.

At long ranges, with a small reticule, low bullet spread and no scope, the weapons effectiveness is limited significantly by players' aim ability. Even with inhuman perfect accuracy at long ranges, it would still be less effective than long range weapons such as the BR. Note also that the BR is a very common starting weapon in Halo 3, is more powerful than the SCR would be, does have a scope, and obviously is currently considered a viable starting weapon.

Obviously i haven't tested this weapon out; what i've given is just some starting values i think may work. So if you were to say "overpowered" in stead of "completely overpowered" i could understand. The general idea behind the weapon is the most important thing, not the numbers - it might hypothetically be necessary to reduce the damage per hit down even as low as 5.5, if it were tested. All i can do is imagine the weapon, and it works great in my head with these numbers. So long as the weapon were decidedly less effective at longer ranges than weapons like the BR, yet were still capable of dealing some significant damage at these ranges, that's the main thing.

  • 07.08.2009 4:05 PM PDT

The Chief is never beaten.

I too think the weapon is overpowered. I think the problem to be fixed is the high fire fate; I think we could be looking for something more along the lines of a long-range Halo 1 pistol (maybe a little weaker than the H1 pistol). Not weak, but it doesn't make for quick kills against Elites and stronger-than-Elites.

  • 07.08.2009 4:07 PM PDT

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Posted by: mubox47
$.50 in store credit.

It seems too powerful. Just spray until the enemy's shields are down (at longer range than the AR), then put one shot in their head. Sure, it's great for beginers, but anyone half decent player owuld likely be able to use this and kill any other weapons.

Still, you did a fantastic job putting this together.

  • 07.08.2009 4:11 PM PDT
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Posted by: General Xylon
I too think the weapon is overpowered. I think the problem to be fixed is the high fire fate; I think we could be looking for something more along the lines of a long-range Halo 1 pistol (maybe a little weaker than the H1 pistol). Not weak, but it doesn't make for quick kills against Elites and stronger-than-Elites.

Posted by: The EAKLE
It seems too powerful. Just spray until the enemy's shields are down (at longer range than the AR), then put one shot in their head. Sure, it's great for beginers, but anyone half decent player owuld likely be able to use this and kill any other weapons.

Still, you did a fantastic job putting this together.

The way i see it, the BR is much more powerful than the SCR (is there any other way to see it?) so at least if you're not a fan of the BR because you think that is much too overpowered, the SCR would be a good step away from this starting weapon (which makes up a whole chunk of MM at the moment). I think it is a good compromise between the ineffectiveness of the AR (at long ranges) and the all-round over-effectiveness of the BR.

Can i just clarify that you obviously think the BR is really overpowered as well?

The SCR, with the numbers i've given, would be the least powerful weapon in the game. Whilst it would be more effective at longer ranges than the AR, it would be similarly less effective at these ranges than the BR. We aren't talking about some kind of godly super weapon, it would fit nicely within the weapon line-up we have now and would act as a compromise between the two starting weapon goliaths that are the AR and BR.

  • 07.08.2009 4:27 PM PDT