- last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT
Posted by: x MibZ x
High Accuracy starting weapons are not good.
They should be effective for about 3/4ths the length of the overshield hallway on The Pit.
That gives you some accuracy, but not as much as the BR. With BR starts everyone is effective at every range instantly and it kills diversity. People either have a BR or a power weapon, which isn't fun.
Please explain why accurate starting weapons are bad for gameplay. They allow for much wider skill gaps to develop, and go a long way toward alleviating the problem of spawn-killing. The diversity is maintained with the SCR because of its relative weakness compared to every other weapon on the map. People would always want to pick up another weapon and eventually swap out their SCR for a BR, Carbine, or whatever else they feel like.
Posted by: monpe45
Personally I think that this weapon is a great idea and sorta reminds me of an AR mixed with a BR. Though I do not think that this weapon is overpowered I do think that the rate of fire and volicity of the rounds could be tweaked a little bit.
I like the fact that with the "extreme" speed of the round it can disrupt snipers and such to allow easier flow but I think that the speed should be a tad bit slower with the weapon being so accurate. I think that the weapon should be more faster then the BR but not as fast of the sniper. This point also makes me think that the gun would shoot a little bit better if it was a little bit faster probably being a difference around 10%. Let me know what you think about that.
While I agree the SCR is a mixture of the AR and BR, this actually is half-coincidence. I thought up the SCR based on what I think the core design principles of a starting weapon should be it wasn't as simple as just picking the two favourite starting weapons and shoving them together. It just turns out to be a good compromise between AR and BR starts.
I have only detailed what I think would work well. I don't have the luxury of testing anything out, but it may well be a better idea to do exactly what you've described with the bullet velocity. Only playtesting could find the answer. So long as respawning players are able to deal some damage and annoy distant Snipers and BRs without threatening them too much off-spawn, then that's great.
Posted by: MuffinMan116
I think the word "Ideal" is thrown way out of context. There can never be an "Ideal" starting weapon for a game like Halo. There are maps like Valhalla that are so massive that you HAVE to pick up a long range weapon such as the Battle Rifle or Carbine to be successful on the map, and Bungie realizes this. Why do you think there are so many Battle Rifles on the map? Bungie's multiplayer puts the player in so many different scenarios that they have to adjust which weapon they use accordingly. That's the beauty of the game. If I spawned with this "Ideal" weapon i would never put it down.
Bungie's fan base is full of complaints about a game that is so fun that they cannot stop playing either way. The weapon you describe is far too accurate for an automatic weapon. The Battle Rifle was designed to be an anti-sniper weapon. The hypothetical weapon that you designed would be ridiculous for a sniper to try and shoot against. He would constantly get knocked out of his scope and wouldn't be able to snipe at all. (Unless he's a pro no-scoper).
This would totally throw off everything Bungie made the assault rifle for as well. The assault rifle is good at mid range no matter what anyone tries to say. The "Standard Combat Rifle" would destroy an assault rifle in any situation if its that accurate.
Whatever weapon they decide to use for Reach will be good, and the MLG kids will use their precious Battle Rifles anyway so it doesn't even matter.
"Ideal" starting weapon =/= ideal weapon. This thread is about the ideal weapon for players to respawn with, not the ideal weapon to kill everything, that you never have to put down. It is intentional that you would want to pick other weapons up. It seems you have misunderstood the concept of "starting weapon". StormyHeart explains it better...
Regarding Snipers and their scopes, the SCR would not be any more effective than the BR at removing them given that it has no scope. Do you really want Snipers to be able to stand in the same spot spawn-killing you when you spawn with your AR? They should get their scopes knocked off plenty if they aren't smart enough to move around into different positions. It's not like Sniper Rifles would be rendered useless with an SCR starting weapon. Just look at BR starts. Snipers get most of their kills on players who aren't looking at them.
Please look at the minimum kill times for the SCR and the AR. You'll see the AR is more effective than the SCR when used at its optimum range.
Posted by: StormyHeart
I envision extremely low sensitivity breaking the design of the SCR at long ranges. (Ideally, spawning players would appear far enough away from enemies such that a high sensitivity would only be appropriate for players who intentionally move close enough to their foes for such a setting to give them an advantage.) For this to work, BUNGiE would have to lock the sensitivity down, and give each weapon its own unique sensitivity based on the weight of the weapon. (or in the case of dual wielding, the sum of both weapons)
That said, the overall design of this weapon is exactly what we need -should it turn out that the weapon is sufficiently difficult to aim.
You make a good point. The weapon would have to be sufficiently difficult to aim, though. If it were too easy with the specs I've described, then they could be tweaked slightly until it worked as intended. I don't really think it would be a problem as-is though. Whilst the bullet spread is minimal, it would still be present, perhaps even as much as the BR of Halo 3, but I would only think about increasing the bullet spread as a last resort to result in the ideal effectiveness of the weapon at longer ranges. Otherwise, the slight recoil of the weapon and the inaccuracy of aim of the players should help to limit its effectiveness.