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  • Subject: SCR in Halo: Reach. The ideal starting weapon.
Subject: SCR in Halo: Reach. The ideal starting weapon.

Here’s what Luke had to say about the differences in treatment between the Spartans and Elites in Reach:

“Instead of piece-by-piece customization like the Spartans, Elite customization is a full model swap with models selected from the various Elite classes appearing throughout the Campaign. There are all kinds of reasons for this, not the least of which is our continued emphasis on the Spartan as your identity in Reach.”

I agree. But I think some tweaking needs to happen.

How much damage to shields vs health points?

Consider making headshots against non shielded opponents deal 2x damage instead of being an instant kill.

Burst fire should make the weapon more accurate, sustained auto fire should do the opposite. Single shot should be the only time that this weapon is "extremely accurate".

Increase the fire rate, either to 10/second or 8/second.

[Edited on 08.02.2009 4:57 PM PDT]

  • 08.02.2009 4:55 PM PDT

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Again posting in this thread because this is a VERY good idea.

The only thing I want to suggest is maybe make it so the kill time is a tiny bit longer that way you still have a reason to pick up another weapon.

  • 08.02.2009 5:30 PM PDT
Subject: How to make the ideal starting weapon for Halo: Reach's multipl...

Some people never see the light till It shines though bullet holes.

Vote for the most underated weapon

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Posted by: StormyHeart
Thoughts regarding bullet speed:
There is a certain skill in being able to lead your target effectively at range. You know, estimating his movement speed, accounting for jumps and changes in elevation.. so on and so forth. I think it might be somewhat wise to account for that. Plus, when you're the one sniping, you're gonna want all the advantage you can get.

However, slower bullet speed will also mean that if a guy is just strafing back and forth at the top of a hill, its gonna be terribly annoying to hit him and take him out of scope. You would have to kind of guess randomly how you're gonna choose to lead him and hope he strafes directly into your bullet.
This is kind of tough I think. if the bullet speed is as fast as you describe in your opening, don't you think that's giving a little too much to this weapon? People will be able to very effectively shoot moving vehicles, and this weapon will tear up unprotected mongoose drivers at long range for sure if the bullets travel as fast as sniper rounds.

Thoughts?


Leading your shots and adding real time bullet speed is a great idea on paper but unfortunatetly lag, online connections make this idea very bad. Just look at shot registration problems with the sniper and br in halo 3.

  • 08.02.2009 5:32 PM PDT

How come I never get the sniper rifle?!
______ ____(˜˜˜||˜˜˜˜||˜˜˜˜˜)_∏______
--------____.`=====.-.~:________\___|================[oo]
|_|||___/___/_/~```|_|_|_|``(o)----------<)

My ROFLsniper goes POW!

I like your idea. \=]

  • 08.02.2009 5:33 PM PDT

This is a great idea to fix these stupid AR/BR threads I would love to see this gun in the beta to see how it works. Just a name suggestion call it the "Future Assault Gun"

  • 08.02.2009 6:00 PM PDT
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I would like to see this weapon be made so that it can be fired single shot as other posts have mentioned, so that it fires as fast as you can pull the trigger and still retains top accuracy.

  • 08.02.2009 6:59 PM PDT

I think these are all great ideas but , the only thing i really see tweaking w for the assault rifle is the accuracy, and maybe a slightly larger clip. I agree w the muffin man , a headshot kill w no shields does make it a little bit ridiculous , but besides that it sounds great. The assault rifle in h3 was terrific , just needed tweaked

  • 08.03.2009 9:49 AM PDT

Verbose, as usual.

Posted by: irisheskimo21
I think these are all great ideas but , the only thing i really see tweaking w for the assault rifle is the accuracy, and maybe a slightly larger clip. I agree w the muffin man , a headshot kill w no shields does make it a little bit ridiculous , but besides that it sounds great. The assault rifle in h3 was terrific , just needed tweaked


I don't think he means to suggest that BUNGiE tweak the assault rifle or remove it from the game. The SCR is a weapon designed to be spawned with, which is fair to both spawning players and established players. It won't be quite as strong as any of the weapons established players will be using in the match, but it will have a certain set of traits which allow spawning players who are carrying it to compete somewhat when they spawn back into the fight. It will be somewhat limited, however. It can't zoom in to compete with the BR and sniper at long ranges, and it has a low rate of fire so it won't be able to compete with the AR, SMG and Shotgun in close quarters environments. (all BUNGiE has to do is Nerf the Melee attacks slightly and we'll be good to go)

Halo 3 has a vast array of customization options. When using the Carbine, BR or Sentinel beam in conjunction with a custom powerup trait which weakened my attacks (and a little honor, as I didn't zoom in) against an equally skilled player who was doing normal damage to me.. I only managed to kill him when he got greedy for a kill. We'd both generally get down to "one shot", and then I'd have to back off because I knew he had a huge advantage landing the finishing head shot at range. I tested this out for about 40 minutes one night because I thought the same thing you did about head shots being too easy at long range. If you don't want to test it out for yourself, I can assure you that when you're fighting a guy who's doing more damage than you do, and he has a scope on his rifle... you're pretty much gonna lose. Using the AR from range to take the guy out of scope is easier IMO because the game seems to be very generous when detecting hits with the AR.

I thought it was a fun challenge to kill him, when compared with using an AR in the same situation. It sort of evolved into a game where I would wait until I got his shields down, then I'd try to snap shoot him to interrupt his shield recharge process. If I was successful, and he hadn't done the same to me, I could close in on him because he'd have to take cover, knowing that he was one shot and I wasn't. I had a temporary advantage because I outplayed him. As soon as his shields were back, I was in danger of being killed, but in this subsequent battle I was closer to being in the ideal range of the weapon where I could more easily land a final headshot.

  • 08.04.2009 4:33 PM PDT

I hunt for the Prophet of Contentment, the San 'Shyumm that murdered my son, and stole his birthright, his Energy Sword. They call our species Heretics. They claim to all that our tongues sting, our words a vile poison that feeds on the unworthy. I have seen the true face of Heresy. The head of a gallant warrior lay on the ground. His neck scorched and blistered, scarred by his own blade. I shall retrieve the weapon, and drive it through that bastard's heart! Punishment for his sins is nigh.

I would recommend a fire rate reduction to 4 shots per second. That would be all.

  • 08.04.2009 4:42 PM PDT
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I'd have something similar to the SMG in ODST. It has a scope, so it allows you to shoot farther, but less damage per bullet. It allows you to fend off Snipers that I find produce more spawn camping situations than not. It's more effective to use in close range, but you can use it in mid range decently. This would also provide a medium-range based outlet that isn't the BR (less people complaining about the BR being overused). It'd help bridge the gap between close range and mid range (however, slightly so that it's still much more useful using a BR for your mid-range combat).

  • 08.04.2009 4:43 PM PDT

Verbose, as usual.

Posted by: StormyHeart
...it will have a certain set of traits which allow spawning players who are carrying it to compete somewhat when they spawn back into the fight. It will be somewhat limited, however. It can't zoom in to compete with the BR and sniper at long ranges, and it has a low rate of fire so it won't be able to compete with the AR, SMG and Shotgun in close quarters environments. (all BUNGiE has to do is Nerf the Melee attacks slightly and we'll be good to go)


To say that it can't compete is a wild overstatement. The starting weapon, if its like the OP describes the SCR, will actually be somewhat effective in fighting back against opponents. The key to the design on the SCR is that it has a somewhat strict margin for user error, and the degree to which any error punishes a player. Any bullets which miss the opponent are obviously detrimental to the performance of the SCR, but the key with this weapon is that the bullets will usually miss due to user error, not the design of the weapon. When the player does begin to miss shots, they can simply realign the reticule and continue firing instead of waiting for another burst from their weapon, as with the BR. The punishment for missing shots comes in the form of having to reload this weapon. If a player doesn't control the weapon's firing as they miss, they run an increasing risk of running out of ammo before they take out their opponent. I do like the OP's idea that the weapon reloads fasten then some of the other weapons in the game. I feel like the concept of a faster reload will sort of promote and balance out the shortcomings of the shallow clip.

  • 08.04.2009 5:27 PM PDT

Verbose, as usual.

Posted by: Josh 22 T
I'd have something similar to the SMG in ODST. It has a scope, so it allows you to shoot farther, but less damage per bullet. It allows you to fend off Snipers that I find produce more spawn camping situations than not. It's more effective to use in close range, but you can use it in mid range decently. This would also provide a medium-range based outlet that isn't the BR (less people complaining about the BR being overused). It'd help bridge the gap between close range and mid range (however, slightly so that it's still much more useful using a BR for your mid-range combat).


The greatest root cause of spawn killing is mismatched teams, followed very, very closely by a flaw in the design of the map. The biggest culprit of this one is Last Resort. Now unless the community as a whole stops making themselves fourteen different accounts, and then BUNGiE decides to eliminate social matches all together, we're going to forever see mismatched teams on occasion. Disregarding ineffective delivery of players back into the map, the reason players set up around an opponents spawn is so that they can begin shooting right away, and eliminate a player before his teammates can effectively help him, before that player can gain a stronger set of weapons, and before that player moves to an area of the map which offers up a set of greater tactical options.

Valhalla, (or any map really) with BR starts, almost requires a spawn trap before a given player can make an effective attack on a base. The defending players spawn with BRs such that they can very effectively cover nearly every path attackers might use to get to the objective in the base. Its only natural that those spawning players, who are a significant danger to anyone they spawn near, move directly to the top of the list of threats on a given map at a given time. As an attacker who is setting up to pull a flag, I have two possible targets. A guy entrenched on top of the base, with plenty of cover, or a guy who just spawned out in the open on a hill behind a tiny rock and a skinny tree
-easy choice.

I don't mean to suggest that the SCAr as a starting weapon will alleviate this distasteful aspect of Halo's core gameplay, I merely mean to suggest that when you've got an entire team hell bent on trapping you back in your spawn, and they've got Warthogs and Snipers and three BR guys looking at that specific area of the map that only the start of a fresh round will completely save you. IMO a rethinking of the way BUNGiE reintroduces players to the fight plus a round based match is the only way to truly eliminate this issue.

  • 08.04.2009 6:07 PM PDT

I'll be on my own side.

I love how every time I see an idea for a new rifle, it's called a Combat Rifle. "Assault Rifle...Battle Rifle...oooh! Combat means the same thing, I'll use that!"

What's next, Warfare Rifle? Conflict Rifle? Insurgency Rifle?

  • 08.04.2009 6:45 PM PDT

@trueunderdog

Chapter

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Fight Rifle

  • 08.04.2009 7:00 PM PDT
Subject: SCR in Halo: Reach. The ideal starting weapon.

The SCR sounds like a great idea to me my only two concerns are:
Don't you think making it being head shot capable will make it too powerful.( I all for this, I mean why should a bullet from one gun kill and not another) but It might a be little too strong. Do you think two head shots would work better?
Second: Would this gun have a lot of recoil? For example the halo 2 SMG.

To Nedus: I love the name conflict rifle it sounds much better. SCR Standard Conflict Rifle. Kinda sounds like something you would use on you neighbors.

[Edited on 08.04.2009 7:06 PM PDT]

  • 08.04.2009 7:02 PM PDT
Subject: How to make the ideal starting weapon for Halo: Reach's multipl...

PMC Senior Member

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I believe this is a great idea, but it should not be an INSTANT kill with no shields. maybe two bullets, or three. but one bullet from a fully automatic gun? I think thats too easy. Other than that, thats like, perfect.

  • 08.04.2009 7:08 PM PDT
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With no scope, the weapon would only be effective close range. Thus the maps would have to be made much smaller.

  • 08.04.2009 7:39 PM PDT
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I think a solution that would work just as well and silence MLG wannabes forever would be to simply make the BR single shot like the Covie Carbine.

  • 08.04.2009 7:47 PM PDT
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Posted by: Nedus
I love how every time I see an idea for a new rifle, it's called a Combat Rifle. "Assault Rifle...Battle Rifle...oooh! Combat means the same thing, I'll use that!"

What's next, Warfare Rifle? Conflict Rifle? Insurgency Rifle?

Polar Bear Rilfe. (shifts eyes)

  • 08.04.2009 7:53 PM PDT

Here is the solution. Make the Current Halo 3 assault rifle more accurate (Give it the reticule size of the BR, the first shot goes in the center, the rest are randomly dispersed within that circle).

Now that we have accuracy down, so now it is a real short-medium range weapon lets get in the specifics:

35 round clip
14 rounds to kill
10 rounds per second

Now that we have that here is what I feel is the most important part:

Make it sound like a real friggin' assault rifle.

  • 08.04.2009 8:54 PM PDT
Subject: SCR in Halo: Reach. The ideal starting weapon.

No matter how many times I forget about this place, I always get dragged back.

I'm more than okay with that.

Ever wonder why CoD4 Old School uses the Skorpion as its starting weapon? The Skorpion can stand on its own to get a fair amount of kills, but is worse than most of the weapons in the game. It is not the optimal close range/medium-close weapon, nor is it the optimal long range/medium-long weapon. The BR shines at medium-long range, and the AR excels at medium-close. The SCR would be like a Skorpion of sorts, not with the same specs, but with the same intention. Give players a starting weapon that can get kills, but only if you work for that kill. Not primarily based on aiming skill or weapon strength, but a balanced combination of both.

I like the SCR. I wish I could use it in H3 right now.

EDIT: Clip size should be anywhere from 24-28 or 40. The 32-36 area is covered by the AR and BR, so you either want to get a larger clip in there, or a smaller one.

[Edited on 08.04.2009 9:04 PM PDT]

  • 08.04.2009 9:00 PM PDT

-The Big Boss-

combine the power and scope of the br with the rapid fire of the ar

[Edited on 08.04.2009 9:06 PM PDT]

  • 08.04.2009 9:06 PM PDT

No matter how many times I forget about this place, I always get dragged back.

I'm more than okay with that.

Posted by: TcG Nuyorican93
combine the power and scope of the br with the rapid fire of the ar


Without massive recoil this would be insanely overpowered.

  • 08.04.2009 9:10 PM PDT
Subject: How to make the ideal starting weapon for Halo: Reach's multipl...

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Posted by: Nedus
I love how every time I see an idea for a new rifle, it's called a Combat Rifle. "Assault Rifle...Battle Rifle...oooh! Combat means the same thing, I'll use that!"

What's next, Warfare Rifle? Conflict Rifle? Insurgency Rifle?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Assault Rifle and Battle Rifle are real weapon classificiations. So is Combat Rifle. Makes sense to call it one.

  • 08.04.2009 9:12 PM PDT
Subject: SCR in Halo: Reach. The ideal starting weapon.

Verbose, as usual.

Posted by: Ninja Walrus
Ever wonder why CoD4 Old School uses the Skorpion as its starting weapon? The Skorpion can stand on its own to get a fair amount of kills, but is worse than most of the weapons in the game. It is not the optimal close range/medium-close weapon, nor is it the optimal long range/medium-long weapon. The BR shines at medium-long range, and the AR excels at medium-close. The SCR would be like a Skorpion of sorts, not with the same specs, but with the same intention. Give players a starting weapon that can get kills, but only if you work for that kill. Not primarily based on aiming skill or weapon strength, but a balanced combination of both.

I like the SCR. I wish I could use it in H3 right now.

EDIT: Clip size should be anywhere from 24-28 or 40. The 32-36 area is covered by the AR and BR, so you either want to get a larger clip in there, or a smaller one.


I'm thinking that the shallower the clip the better. The more often a player has to reload, the more depth players will feel in combat. Every gap in shooting gives the enemy players a chance to make a play, and consequently give an edge to teams and players who look for and exploit those pauses. The more frequently players have a chance to make a move, the more frequently their opponents will have to adjust their play to counter, and the faster the game will feel.

Plus, a deeper clip is a great way to give weapons like the SMG, Assault Rifle, and Battle Rifle greater preference. Why keep your SCR if the BR is better because it has a scope? Why keep the SCR when the AR has a faster rate of fire and does more damage per bullet (at the slight cost of accuracy over longer ranges and sustained fire.). Why keep the SCR when the SMG has a clip which is twice as deep? A starting weapon like this one would be a complete joy to use.

  • 08.05.2009 12:56 AM PDT