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Subject: How to make the ideal starting weapon for Halo: Reach's multipl...
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Posted by: Halo 2 Rookie
Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Full-auto headshots would make it overpowered. Drop a nade to lower 3 people's shields and spray in their general direction. Triple kill, no precision required. No thanks! My idea for a starting weapon.
Reposting won't get it anymore noticed, I fear. I have a feeling this guy has conviction in numbers.

I don't know the numbers myself, and that could be a problem. Some people are reading these numbers and are assuming they're faster than everything else. While you do have the numbers for the Battle Rifle and Assault Rifle up, it could help to put other ones. Maybe in a smaller block somehow.

My opinion is that the ability to attain headshots with an automatic weapon is a concern. While ordinary automatic weapons in Halo are not a threat with headshots, a weapon that is highly accurate such as what you propose is a significant danger in specific situations. Do I think that's overpowered? I don't know what to think. But I know that it should at least be looked over thoroughly. This "SCR" is supposed to be the smack-dab-in-the-middle-weapon, with no distinct advantages. Giving it the effective mop-up crew use makes this something unique. Again, I don't know if that's a problem. But I do know it is a concern, since no other weapon can do this.

If nothing else, I'm with Cheehwawa on the name. MA5K is a canon weapon that we know little about that exists and was actively used by the Spartans and UNSC during the Fall of Reach and the proceeding events thereafter on Reach. While SCR is a good "project name" for the weapon, I think MA5K is the better way to go.

  • 07.13.2009 5:12 PM PDT
Subject: SCR in Halo: Reach. The ideal starting weapon.
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I thick the reticule is a bit to smoll and the accuracy to good but I thick its a good gun

  • 07.13.2009 5:24 PM PDT
Subject: How to make the ideal starting weapon for Halo: Reach's multipl...

Here's what i think, first 1-3 bullets should be accurate at 99.5%, bullets 4-5 should be up to 86%, bullet 6 would be up to 70% accurate, bullet 7 would be up to 52% accurate and so on until we have bullet 12 with 30% accuracy.
Basically what i'm trying to say is that as soon as your holding the trigger down for more than about 1.2 seconds your bullets will become extremely inaccurate, forcing you to pulse the trigger if you want to be rewarded with a higher chance to kill.

  • 07.13.2009 6:17 PM PDT

eh? no, whats wrong with starting out with a BR. We aren't playing an rpg here. so who cares if the weapon we start out with can do some damage. It isn't a one shot kill and most of the time it isn't even a 4 shot kill. This would make it harder to take back the lead if your opponents have BRs or anything greater for that matter. While your scurrying around trying to find a stonger weapon your opponents make short work of you.

  • 07.13.2009 6:38 PM PDT
Subject: SCR in Halo: Reach. The ideal starting weapon.

Oh dang! That man just ordered breakfast in the middle of my rap song!

Everything seems good but I think it's getting a bit overpowered, mainly because of the insane accuracy of the weapon and the instant headshot-kill (when shields are down). Here's a compromise that might make it a little less powerful but still effective: give it a scope.

Scopeless, the weapon would be fairly accurate, with the bullet spread increased a little. Fire rate would still be auto, but you would have to land several headshots to kill a shieldless enemy.

Scoped in, accuracy suffers, but it's enough to take a distant sniper out of his scope. Not kill him, distract him. And it's still fully auto. There'll be enough kick that it's not too effective if the trigger's held down too long.

It's like a crippled BR. It's not as powerful, it's not as accurate. But it's fully auto and good enough to annoy distant enemies. It doesn't replace weapons on map but it can holds its own.

  • 07.13.2009 7:09 PM PDT
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I am the hand of fate!

Posted by: xxR1CExx
Everything seems good but I think it's getting a bit overpowered, mainly because of the insane accuracy of the weapon and the instant headshot-kill (when shields are down). Here's a compromise that might make it a little less powerful but still effective: give it a scope.

Scopeless, the weapon would be fairly accurate, with the bullet spread increased a little. Fire rate would still be auto, but you would have to land several headshots to kill a shieldless enemy.

Scoped in, accuracy suffers, but it's enough to take a distant sniper out of his scope. Not kill him, distract him. And it's still fully auto. There'll be enough kick that it's not too effective if the trigger's held down too long.

It's like a crippled BR. It's not as powerful, it's not as accurate. But it's fully auto and good enough to annoy distant enemies. It doesn't replace weapons on map but it can holds its own.

Exactly, that's more or less the general idea. The only thing is the specifics.

  • 07.13.2009 8:35 PM PDT
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Some of you think that fully automatic + headshots is overpowered. I'll just explain why i don't think this is true at all.

Well first of all, i think both these things, alone, are conducive to the ideal starting weapon for the reasons i already gave at the top of the thread - so it would obviously be worthwhile looking into combining the two of them.

Now, the example that has cropped up is: "If there was like three guys with no shields, you could just run in spraying bullets and get a triple kill so easily."

So let's look at that for a second. Firstly, i would have to say that with the majority of weapons in the game (certainly human weapons), players could get a triple kill quite easily in this situation. Fair enough though, some of you think it would be "too easy" with a fully automatic weapon that deals instant death against shieldless opponents with a headshot.

"Spraying bullets". Well, no, because as already explained, the accuracy is very high, similarly accurate to the BR of Halo 3. Any bullets that hit the heads of these three players, would only do so if your reticule passed over their head. You would not get lucky headshots because of bullet spread. That is how the SCR differs from the traditional fully automatic weapons of the Halo series.

If you are thinking that you could simply drag the reticule across your screen at head-height to gain this triple kill with ease, you'd be wrong again. Another reason the SCR differs from the traditional fully automatic weapons of the Halo series, is that it has a comparatively very low rate of fire. You would have to be precise with this weapon and actually aim at the heads of the players or you would be extremely unlikely to get any kills at all before they ran off. I can imagine some of you thinking that because this weapon is fully automatic, the bullets come thick and fast but in reality it would be far from it. The rate of fire as i described is 6 rounds per second. I did a test:

At sensitivity 1, players turn through approximately 200 degrees per second (1.8 seconds to turn full circle). This means that with a rate of fire of 6 rounds per second, the bullets would be separated by appromately 33 degrees (nearly half your field of view) if you were to drag you reticule even at the lowest sensitivity. That should give you some indication of how precise you would need to be with this weapon. For a reference point, the Carbine fires at approximately 5 rounds per second, giving 40 degrees of separation.

That's why i do not think it would be overpowered at all.

  • 07.14.2009 6:05 AM PDT
Subject: How to make the ideal starting weapon for Halo: Reach's multipl...

Ninjabag the tea-pirates!

I don't want to join your group.

I think it sounds good. A cross between the AR and BR.

  • 07.14.2009 6:19 AM PDT
Subject: SCR in Halo: Reach. The ideal starting weapon.

Ninjabag the tea-pirates!

I don't want to join your group.

A question i have is what's the Hitscan distance? It should probably be shorter than the BRs which i belive is 1.5m so maybe take it down to 1m. It shouldn't make that much difference but it would help make sure that people may choose the BR over the SCR.
Also with the SCR it may be pointless to pick up an AR as it has similar capabilities (same clip size and full auto) as well as headshot capabilities and a longer range. From average run, gun, melee distance the SCR would always win due to non spread.

  • 07.14.2009 6:23 AM PDT
Subject: How to make the ideal starting weapon for Halo: Reach's multipl...

You know what that sounds like? The full auto BR from the live action halo 3 promos.

But yeah, sounds pretty awesome. Now, how might that kind of rifle appear... oh! How bout a red-dot sight rifle. No, not aim down the sights style, just having it sit on the rifle, you know...

  • 07.14.2009 6:29 AM PDT
Subject: SCR in Halo: Reach. The ideal starting weapon.

nubba dub scrub in a tub

A fully-automatic rifle that is higlhley accurate? Perhaps if it was unaccurate over range...but it seems a little too powerful to me. You talked about being able to unscope people who are trying to snipe? doesnt this defeat the advantage of a sniper? Likewise any other scoped weapon?
It just seems overpowered to me, like everyone would runaround with this weapon and ignore many other weapons.
Oh well. It's too hard to judge until you can actually use it

  • 07.14.2009 6:43 AM PDT

Do a barrel roll!

Sounds okay to me. Maybe reducing the accuracy from very high to just high might help. Other people say it sounds like a tweaked AR and it kinda does. Good idea though.

  • 07.14.2009 7:12 AM PDT

Verbose, as usual.

Lollollol.
Funny how people reject this idea, but when you fire up Halo: CE, pick up the Pistol, and start shooting with it, it functions fully automatically.

WUT?!!??!?

Yap.
Players can just hold down the trigger and the weapon will cycle until the clip is empty.
(I'd be willing to bet that the vast overwhelming majority of you didn't even know that little fact.) As a result, when players talk about the qualities of the Halo: CE magnum which make it overpowered, nobody in the history of the internet has cited its fully automatic qualities as one of the causes -partly because nobody knows, but mostly because it isn't a factor.

Go. Put the game in. Try it.

It shoots like three and a half rounds per second, the bullets are dead accurate until maybe the sixth or seventh one, and it reloads ridiculously fast. Its got a scope, it kills people in three bullets and the bullets hit just about instantly. At least that's how I remember it.

Compare that to what Feign Suggests, and you'll see that the SCAR, as a starting weapon, is totally reasonable. Its definitely a weapon I'd love to start with. Most importantly, its also a weapon I wouldn't mind one or two freshly spawned players coming at me with.

All in all, this is a pretty solid idea. I think some of you are misunderstanding the gameplay concepts behind this weapon, or when you're imagining it, you're not taking into account the all of the aspects of the design at the same time. Fully automatic does not have any relation to rate of fire. It simply means that once the trigger is depressed, the weapon will cycle until the trigger is released, or it runs out of ammo. This weapon is designed to allow a group of freshly spawned players to accurately team shoot established players, while still allowing an established player to build a decisive advantage for any 1v1 scenario he encounters. Provided, of course, that the established player can maneuver himself into position where whatever weapon he's using is going to be more effective than the SCAr.

[Edited on 07.15.2009 4:07 AM PDT]

  • 07.15.2009 4:01 AM PDT

Verbose, as usual.

Posted by: CRAAZY_SUN
A fully-automatic rifle that is higlhley accurate? Perhaps if it was unaccurate over range...but it seems a little too powerful to me. You talked about being able to unscope people who are trying to snipe? doesnt this defeat the advantage of a sniper? Likewise any other scoped weapon?
It just seems overpowered to me, like everyone would runaround with this weapon and ignore many other weapons.
Oh well. It's too hard to judge until you can actually use it


The inaccuracy comes not from the design of the weapon, like the SMG or Assault Rifle, but from user error. A way better way to solve a contest of skill IMO.

if you think that an accurate weapon totally defeats the purpose of scoped weapons, pick yourself up a Sentinel Beam, and see how well you do against a friend with a Sniper Rifle or a BR.

  • 07.15.2009 4:06 AM PDT
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Great post! We definitely need something much more versatile than the AR/SMG and less powerful than the BR to start with.This sounds like it would work perfectly.

  • 07.15.2009 4:16 PM PDT
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I need a dropshield dropshield

mm I have an idea what about a br+ar weapon? you can change it from full automatic to not in game ...
what do you think???

[Edited on 07.15.2009 4:23 PM PDT]

  • 07.15.2009 4:21 PM PDT
Subject: How to make the ideal starting weapon for Halo: Reach's multipl...

I want to see a bolt action rifle, not too much detail but, 5 clip mag, about the fire speed you'd get with the R700 or M40AE in CoD 4, instakill, horrbly hard to shoot at close range (reduced turn speed when not zoomed in), puts the players at 90% speed( to offset its high power ), and an 8x zoom like the sniper in Halo CE PLEASE DON'T JUST POST "THAT SUKS or U SUK BALS" or crap like that just say what i could improve

  • 07.15.2009 7:05 PM PDT
Subject: SCR in Halo: Reach. The ideal starting weapon.
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Posted by: Sniping Beaver
I want to see a bolt action rifle, not too much detail but, 5 clip mag, about the fire speed you'd get with the R700 or M40AE in CoD 4, instakill, horrbly hard to shoot at close range (reduced turn speed when not zoomed in), puts the players at 90% speed( to offset its high power ), and an 8x zoom like the sniper in Halo CE PLEASE DON'T JUST POST "THAT SUKS or U SUK BALS" or crap like that just say what i could improve

This sounds like a Sniper Rifle to me whereas this thread is for discussing starting weapons for Halo: Reach (i.e. the weapon you respawn with like the AR or BR) and the core principles behind design choices for them. I don't think it would be a great idea to start with a Sniper Rifle for anything other than Team Snipers.

[Edited on 07.16.2009 4:36 AM PDT]

  • 07.16.2009 4:34 AM PDT

Verbose, as usual.

Sorry for the break... I just got back from vacation :)

I had a thought while I was laying on the beach drinking heavily:
This idea is a very solid direction to take regarding the starting weapon
-assuming that they stick to their current gameplay model.

IF they radically alter the way this game plays, (and they very easily could do such a thing because this is a prequel to Halo: CE) we might be playing out the story of the battle of Reach from the Covenant side. We could, when we enter battle, choose from pre-determined covenant classes....... in which case this is a completely moot point.

  • 07.30.2009 1:03 PM PDT
Subject: How to make the ideal starting weapon for Halo: Reach's multipl...
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I say lower the damage. It would kind of make it like a longer range, 2-handed SMG.

  • 07.30.2009 1:07 PM PDT

Behold my Majicness!

sweet weapon they shuld replace the assualt rifle with it

  • 07.30.2009 1:31 PM PDT
Subject: SCR in Halo: Reach. The ideal starting weapon.
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Halo CE > Halo 3 > Halo 2

Fix the Halo 3 BR spread, plz.

Though this is one possible solution, I personally think that instead of making a completely new weapon. Keep the BR, but increase it's rate of fire and make it more accurate. Make the sniper like it was in Halo CE. Make the shotgun like it was in Halo CE. Make the Rockets like the Halo 2 ones with Halo CE rocket speed. Make the SMG just like the Halo CE AR. Make the plasma weapons have freeze again, make the needler just like how it is now, but slightly faster kill speed. Make the AR more accurate with headshot capabilities. Brute shot can be 3 grenade kill. Power up grenades.

Pretty much make this game have the same moderate pace Halo CE had instead of the slower pace of Halo 3. Weakening weapons is not the option, and I think that the weapon balance from Halo CE work very well. The problem isn't the BR is overpowered. It's the other guns aren't powerful enough. The power weapons are obviously a lot more effective than BRs, but some other choices are too weak. Bungie needs to remove useless weapons and not make weapons just for the sake of making them. You don't need a whole bunch of weapons. You need unique, powerful weapons.

BTW, the Pistol in Halo CE was significantly less accurate when fired automatically, rather than pulsed.

[Edited on 07.30.2009 2:37 PM PDT]

  • 07.30.2009 2:35 PM PDT
Subject: How to make the ideal starting weapon for Halo: Reach's multipl...

Verbose, as usual.

Thoughts regarding bullet speed:
There is a certain skill in being able to lead your target effectively at range. You know, estimating his movement speed, accounting for jumps and changes in elevation.. so on and so forth. I think it might be somewhat wise to account for that. Plus, when you're the one sniping, you're gonna want all the advantage you can get.

However, slower bullet speed will also mean that if a guy is just strafing back and forth at the top of a hill, its gonna be terribly annoying to hit him and take him out of scope. You would have to kind of guess randomly how you're gonna choose to lead him and hope he strafes directly into your bullet.
This is kind of tough I think. if the bullet speed is as fast as you describe in your opening, don't you think that's giving a little too much to this weapon? People will be able to very effectively shoot moving vehicles, and this weapon will tear up unprotected mongoose drivers at long range for sure if the bullets travel as fast as sniper rounds.

Thoughts?

  • 08.02.2009 2:58 PM PDT

I like the idea for the "SCR," but the one-hit headshot one those without shields is a bit concerning. If this was to be implemented, and is able to do the "1-shot- shieldless-headshot,"
it should be weaker on health body-shots.

This way if the player is able to evade your headshot without any shields, they should have at least a chance of killing you.

Also, maybe the accuracy should be high, or medium-high. At extremely long ranges the sniper/beam rifle ARE NOT MEANT TO BE CONTENDED WITH. In your logic, power weapons should competing with starting weapons.

Starting weapons should compete with specialized weapons like the SMG (short range) and BR (medium range), but not power weapons.

  • 08.02.2009 4:24 PM PDT