Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: The Only "Should Elites Be in Matchmaking" thread. (Read ...
  • Subject: The Only "Should Elites Be in Matchmaking" thread. (Read ...
Subject: The Only "Should Elites Be in Matchmaking" thread. (Read ...

With B.B. gone, the passion of Bungie.net has lessened.

Yes. I've mainly played as an Elite in Halo 2 and again in Halo 3. I do see the inherent problems with the design, but these are things that can be fixed. Bungie proved this with the change from Halo 2 to Halo 3.

In Halo 2, Elites were horribly gimped, especially in close-quarters firefights. Against a Spartan, an Elite with an SMG (which was the main starting weapon in Halo 2 for quite a while) had very little chance of winning a head-to-head battle in most gametypes. There were ways that you could win these fights if you either played "smartly," or simply took your gimp into account before you went charging into a firefight. The gimp was caused mainly by the location of the Elite's head: closer to the center of mass of the body; the easiest place to shoot, and sometimes the best place to shoot with any non-precision weapon.

In fights with BRs in Halo 2, I found that the head of an Elite facing you, for the same reasons, was easier to hit, and thus easier to kill. The Elite's design partially makes up for this in BR fights (and sniper fights as well) when the Elite's back is turned to the attacker. It allowed the Elite to protect its head and get away if need be (though the Spartan could also protect its head when having its back turned by looking all the way down to the ground, it was not as effective as the Elites, due to the physical placement of the head). This advantage was not good enough to make up for the disadvantages.

From time to time, with certain crowds in ranked games, I would switch to the Spartan model in Halo 2 and instantly notice the difference. I was able to last longer in starting-weapon firefights and kill more than I was able to as an Elite. Thus, my conclusion for the Elite in Halo 2 was that playing as the Spartan was simply a better choice in terms of gameplay. But I was driven more by aesthetics, and accepted the Elite model despite its deficiencies.

Now, in Halo 3, I don't notice much of a difference at all. The Elite's head is still a little easier to hit due to its placement, but that's about it. Coupled with the "running away" advantage, I would argue that the Elite model is pretty even with the Spartan in normal games, practically. Lately (well, the last few months that I played Halo 3), I would frequently switch between Spartan and Elite models, and notice no difference significant enough to change the core gameplay.

That is not to say there aren't problems with the Elite in Halo 3. The issue with SWAT comes into play, or any non-standard gametype that relies as heavily on headshots as SWAT (like MLG). Some argue that it's a problem with the hitboxes... whatever. I think it's more related to the animation-reaction of the Elite getting shot in or near the head; the head moves more than the Spartans, allowing for more bullets that would normally hit to miss. There's also the hit-detection problem with certain areas of the neck. In MLG and SWAT playlists, this is something I've noticed, like most everyone else. The Elite's survivability is slightly greater than that of the Spartans. After testing it myself, I feel that though the Elite has the advantage, it is nowhere near that of the Spartan's from Halo 2. Perhaps this is due to the way I use the BR, as I've found that "swiping" the BR for the final headshot rarely misses the target, Elite model or no. Whatever the case for anyone, arguing that the Elite model breaks the game in Halo 3 is an unfounded opinion that is closer to being a sore loser and whining about it than anything else.

Taking the Elite model out rather than perfecting it is like giving up on a good idea. It's quitting something that can be easily fixed with more time spent working on it. Perhaps Bungie doesn't have that time; fair enough. The decision to add the Elite into matchmaking was a good one, in my opinion. Poorly implemented at first, almost perfected the second time, and if tried a third time, I'm sure the practical gameplay differences between the two models will be so close to nil that you won't even notice them.

  • 07.15.2009 10:13 AM PDT
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Posted by: Fos Tis Krisis
Posted by: IC3Y C0LD
get them out of the game, they have advantages and it would be more fair for everyone if they were gone

You never played Halo 2, and I know why. You see, because Spartan fanboys ALWAYS believe being a Spartan is right. In Halo 3 you complain that "Elites are unfair because they are harder to kill, so you shouldn't play as them" But in Halo 2 they were EASIER to kill, but you know what? Noone played all as Elites because it "Took More Skill" people actually said "Your an idiot if you play as Elites because Spartans have the advantage." So no, you are WRONG. And for all ANY of you know, in Halo Reach they WILL be even, or the advantage might be for the Spartans again.

Stop whining, WE didnt whine when our head hitboxes were MASSIVE, and you should complain when yours are.


That's exactly right. There was never a huge outcry to fix the Elite hitbox in Halo 2. Elite players either dealt with it, or adjusted based on the playlist. I played an Elite for most things, but it was a terrible disadvantage for Sniper, so I played Spartan in that list. I don't remember it affecting me in Swat that much in Halo 2. I'm all for a more upright stance, but for multiplayer I would say the best balance would be found in shrinking the Elites down to Spartan height. I will deal with being shorter and having to look them in the eyes if I can finally stretch out this kink in my neck from always hunching over.

  • 07.15.2009 10:25 AM PDT
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I think we should have brutes as playable characters in Halo 3: ODST because they don't have shields either. That would be cool.

  • 07.15.2009 10:34 AM PDT
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If they're going to do it, give the Elites more permutation options. I mean seriously they have like 6 and while I don't use elite, it's not exactly that much fun to tinker with 6 different things versus like the 16 different helmets SPARTANs have.


And no none of those numbers are accurate.

  • 07.15.2009 10:43 AM PDT
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I need a dropshield dropshield

they should add the arbiter and remove the small elite head. problem solved

  • 07.15.2009 4:24 PM PDT

http://achievementgen.info/view.php?ach=22555

Posted by: Mythikos
Clearly, we Sangheili posses superior strength than that of the Demon. Though I must make the simple proclamation that the Demon is quite a rapid-moving creature. I have nothing but disdain for the idea of equality, when it implies a lack of endurance or imagination. It is my firm belief that things are rarely identical in the realm of plausibility. The closest proximity to equality held by any two things should be through their individual diversity. That is to say, things may be complimentary, but never, ever, EVER, should they be identical.

We Sangheili are no faster than the Demon, for his battle skin is of a superior grade than is our own. But his suit does not make him taller or stronger than us.

The Gods MUST take these existing realities into account, upon the further shaping of the evolution of our Universe. This diversification is what makes life worth living.

I stand fully beside my brother Sangheili in this matter.

[Edited on 07.15.2009 5:27 PM PDT]

  • 07.15.2009 5:27 PM PDT

I hunt for the Prophet of Contentment, the San 'Shyumm that murdered my son, and stole his birthright, his Energy Sword. They call our species Heretics. They claim to all that our tongues sting, our words a vile poison that feeds on the unworthy. I have seen the true face of Heresy. The head of a gallant warrior lay on the ground. His neck scorched and blistered, scarred by his own blade. I shall retrieve the weapon, and drive it through that bastard's heart! Punishment for his sins is nigh.

There is only one issue, the complainers. See, alot of the Halo community believes Balance means everything is the same. If you look at a fighter, or class based game, Balance means though everything is different, neither still has a disadvantage.

IF there is a class based Halo, these traits would be interesting. IF there is not, lets just keep it even.

  • 07.15.2009 7:27 PM PDT

Posted by: Fos Tis Krisis
I believe instead of patching the neck, the Elites need to stand more like they do in This picture. Halo Reach running on a while new engine means that they HAVE to completely remake the model, and I don't think anyone will complain about the head if it is up there. The lighter looking armor, and skinnier look of the Elites seems to be a preference of most players actually. They look more religious, more honorable, like that.


The reason why in Halo 1 they stand straight up and were slimer was because they werent playable, but once they became playable they needed to have the same hit box as spartans to not be a easier target, so they hunch over with their heads at the same level as a spartan, because they are a good 2 feet taller then spartans, and their necks ad like another foot to that, so if you hide behind a wall the spartan would be covered while the elites head sticks right out.

I think they need to stay for sure, make them scary, evil looking. And for the love of god give them the same amount of armor as spartans. Its so un-fair that spartan players get more things then elite players.

  • 07.15.2009 7:38 PM PDT

Pride is power. Bravery is strength. Zeal is necessary. Blindness is death.

Elites definitely need to stay. Maybe some tweaking is in order, and we need more armor perms, but it should definitely stay, even for Spartans' sakes. They would get bored fighting only Spartans. Brutes? Meh. They can be in, or out, but I don't think they tie in with Reach or ODST. sorry.


By the way, I find it amusing that most of the posts against Elites are immature, while most of the posts for Elites are well-thought, even if misspelled.

  • 07.16.2009 6:20 AM PDT

I hunt for the Prophet of Contentment, the San 'Shyumm that murdered my son, and stole his birthright, his Energy Sword. They call our species Heretics. They claim to all that our tongues sting, our words a vile poison that feeds on the unworthy. I have seen the true face of Heresy. The head of a gallant warrior lay on the ground. His neck scorched and blistered, scarred by his own blade. I shall retrieve the weapon, and drive it through that bastard's heart! Punishment for his sins is nigh.

Adding the Brutes would be a great way to end the "Spartans vs Elites" Mentality. The 3rd choice would remove so much of the Anti-Elite hate.

  • 07.17.2009 9:28 AM PDT
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Without Elites, Matchmaking will never be the same.
I agree with you OP.

  • 07.17.2009 9:33 AM PDT

Bungie.net user for 4 years and still going!
Plasmalab, a great map for Neutral CTF or Slayer. Download it and have fun. Version 1.1 now available.
Do not send me group invites I will NOT accept them.
TRIPLE SE7EN PWNAGE

They should stay, seriously, just because they have a 'supposed' advantage in SWAT does not mean they should not be allowed.

And if you can't beat 'em in SWAT, join 'em, being an Elite can be fun if you make it so.

  • 07.17.2009 9:36 AM PDT

"Honour is panoptic"
Kappa Omicron

I fully concur,

Elites should still be in Matchmaking for Halo: Reach.

Even if Spartans say the Elites have an advantage because of many reasons, shouldn't you feel more accomplished with every kill you get which is an Elite? I know I would savour every taste of Spartan hide I take if the Spartans had an advantage. OH wait. I did. Back in Halo 2. And I never complained once. And most of the Spartans cry like little children. It's pathetic.

Shame on you.

  • 07.28.2009 4:36 AM PDT

.:Disobey the Norm:.

How I got Recon.

If I'm right, they all have the same hit boxes so it really shouldn't make much of a difference which player model you play as.

  • 07.28.2009 4:54 AM PDT

Those who think there all that are all truly dead on the inside

KEEP EM IN RAWRRRRR!!! i mean rly? i luv elites iam an elite 99.9% of the time and when iam in S.W.A.T i do not find a problem brin an elite in the head i mean bungie even said that they both have the same hitbox its just all in ur head if your saying u cant get a headshot on elites, its just that, u cant get a headshot, meaning u suck at headshoting nothing more and yes elites need more amor and the stance thing i do think they look hella lot better standing straight hwat they could do is like when ur not moving make em stand up tall an majestic and when ur shooting and running to make em hunch over because that is there combat stance after all

  • 08.02.2009 4:03 PM PDT

I think I know why the elites were all hunched in halo 3. Elites are much larger than spartans. They'd be so much taller if they stood upright.

  • 08.02.2009 4:15 PM PDT

Posted by: DizRupT
The only people that complain about Elites are the ones that complain about the BR, the Melee system, Headshot registering, Non-Dedicated Hosts, the AR, the Mauler, Recon armour, Vehicles, The Ranking system, etc etc.

Aka people that complain about anything that could possibly maybe have a chance to cause a slight 1MBAL4NC3!!!!111one.

  • 08.02.2009 4:40 PM PDT

if you love me i hate U!!!!!

keep them ya we might be dinosaurs but ok spartans r like robots or something............dinosaurs vs robots vs chuck norris

  • 08.02.2009 7:20 PM PDT

I am of an open mind and I am willing to hear criticism. Also: That's stupid and you're stupid.

I approve of Elites in Halo: Reach.

Once approved, it cannot be unapproved.

  • 08.02.2009 7:22 PM PDT