Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach. (Update-7/16/09 : New weapons added.)
  • Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach. (Update-7/16/09 : New weapons added.)
Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach. (Update-7/16/09 : New weapons added.)

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Posted by: mubox47
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Posted by: The_4rb1ter
Horrible post OP. No Offence.
1st Halo CE did have a BR, it was called the pistol, and it made everything obsolete, except the shotgun and sniper in extreme long/short range.
The BR does not make other weapons obsolete or promote camping. Most other weapons in the game can beat the BR in favorable circumstances. You don't want to killed at long range? Well get behind a wall. It is only on big maps with bad spawns were being killed at long range is a problem, which is the a problem with spawn placement, not the BR.

Those three 'quick' bursts and melee will be beaten all the time by any close range weapon, I fail to see how anyone could beat a decent AR user at close range.
I don't know of a single weapon that the BR can beat in all circumstances.
Taking the BR and Carbine away would see serious dominance from the Sniper and Rockets. Did you even play Combat Evolved?

Most 'Halo Haters' that I know in real life dislike Halo because they always say:
'It requires no skill all you do is run at someone, spam AR rounds, and beatdown.'
This one complaint is nullified by BR starts.

I see no problems with camping in the MLG playlist, maybe Bungie should fix gametypes and maps so that they discourage camping. Without BR starts, other power weapons become even more powerful. I cannot count the number of times I have got sprees on valhalla with the sniper because I keep getting rushed by AR, which does no damage from far away.
Just so you know, i have answered nearly every qeustion/issue you just posted somewhere in this thread. The one i didn't answer was the MLG/camping issue, but i dont see how it is really related to the conversation.

  • 07.16.2009 5:11 PM PDT
Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach

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Posted by: mubox47
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But, all this talk about the BR is overpowered, or the M6D Pistol was overpowered, et cetera, and those weapons do not fit in the balance of Halo is just plain ridiculous. It makes me shutter in fear, just thinking of how Halo could turn into if Bungie was to listen to some of you guys. Hopefully, they don't.You're right. They should listen to people like you and make the incredibly versatile starting weapon more accurate and powerful. That'll balance the game!

Half the stuff you posted does not make sense. For instance. . .

balancing the game around the AR for the sake of close-range weapons

I never said that.

How exactly do you think toning them down will make them any less effective at close-range than they already are? How would toning them down make them less effective? They would be weaker. That seems obvious.

So, why can't a weapon, whether it is a Rifle or a Magnum, be extremely accurate (M6D accurate) and be very strong (a 3-shot or a 4-shot)? Again, the answer seems obvious. The M6D was great fun, but grossly over powered.

And, why can't all the other weapons be stronger with more ranger and power, so they can be used if wanted, but not required to compete (aka balance)? Make every weapon as ridiculous as the M6D? Have every weapon kill from almost any distance? I would not enjoy that at all.

  • 07.16.2009 5:23 PM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

No offense, Eakle, but your knowledge of this game's mechanics and functionality through certain posts you have made pretty much lost any credibility you had left with me. However, I will go ahead and explain to you certain things that you refer to as "obvious".

Posted by: The EAKLE
balancing the game around the AR for the sake of close-range weapons

I never said that.
By saying that the BR is overpowered and stating that you wish the weapon to be altered in order to make it less effective, you are wanting this game to be balanced down to the AR, or any other weapon that has ALWAYS been limited to close-ranged scenarios. Unless, you are just wanting the burst functionality gone...but you are also implying that its range is too much (another indication that you want this game to be balanced to help out people using close-ranged weapons).

How exactly do you think toning them down will make them any less effective at close-range than they already are? How would toning them down make them less effective? They would be weaker. That seems obvious.Here's an "obvious" question...Does a H3 4-shot with the BR beat an AR in CQC? NO. The reason why the BR is so strong at close-range is because it deals headshots. The Carbine and Magnum are just as effective. Toning down the range or power of these headshot weapons do nothing for their close-ranged effectiveness. You really can't argue with this, because I just stated facts.

So, why can't a weapon, whether it is a Rifle or a Magnum, be extremely accurate (M6D accurate) and be very strong (a 3-shot or a 4-shot)? Again, the answer seems obvious. The M6D was great fun, but grossly over powered. And, as expected, you are falling into calling a weapon overpowered, when indeed everything else is underpowered. You didn't even answer the question. You can have a strong weapon and have a balanced game; that is the problem with this topic. You think in order to balance it you should only decrease power in certain weapons; you can also increase power in certain weapons. Every weapon in Red Faction:Guerrilla is stronger than the H3 BR, and that game also has a much better balanced weapon set.

And, why can't all the other weapons be stronger with more ranger and power, so they can be used if wanted, but not required to compete (aka balance)? Make every weapon as ridiculous as the M6D? Have every weapon kill from almost any distance? I would not enjoy that at all.Well, considering you haven't made any indication that you have had much experience with Halo:CE, or were too young to really enjoy the game to its fullest, I don't know how to respond to this. But, if you really want the game to be dumbed down to your liking, I am sure the customization would allow for it.

If you want a single-shot weapon, like the Magnum, to fullfill this niche that the BR fills as a replacement, that is fine. However, if the weapon functions like the M6G Magnum like what we have here in Halo 3, then that will do nothing but hurt gameplay and slow the pace of the game way down.

Let's also keep in mind that as you balance weapons, you have to include all weapons (yes, Power Weapons, too). 1-hit Power Weapons should be balanced as well. The main reason MLG used the M6D Pistol or the BR as a spawn weapon is because it has sufficient power to balance out the controllable items (Rockets, OS, et cetera).

Feel free to respond to this. But, if you are going to respond with the same old nonsense, like the BR is overpowered and everything else is perfectly balanced, while also saying that it is obvious, I am just going to ignore you.

  • 07.16.2009 6:02 PM PDT

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
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Posted by: STiS
omg how is this thread still going

all the OP's points are based on faulty logic and misinformation

halo has always had a weapon that functioned like the BR...that point alone destroys the OP's arguement
Would it be too much to ask you to either actually contribute to the discussion, or not post?

  • 07.16.2009 6:25 PM PDT
Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach. (Update-7/16/09 : New weapons added.)

I like your post, you presented evidence and made a strong point. Also i like you weapon specifications there very detailed.

  • 07.16.2009 6:26 PM PDT

Lol

It may be biased but its the truth. Ever since Halo 1 there have always been a weapon that is extremely powerful but hard to master that made Halo the way it is. Nothing should be changed. If you completely make the game where anyone can win then theirs no point to being good or going pro in halo. Theirs no point of MLG or any tournaments. Halo is a competitive game. Any game where you play against other people is competitive. And the main rule of competitive games is that the most skilled must win and not the normal everyday joe.

  • 07.16.2009 6:30 PM PDT

Gamertag: Vengeance304

Posted by: STiS
omg how is this thread still going

all the OP's points are based on faulty logic and misinformation

halo has always had a weapon that functioned like the BR...that point alone destroys the OP's arguement

He isn't suggesting that there shouldn't be a weapon like the BR, but one that replaces it and is more balanced (or if Bungie can, make the BR balanced). I for one don't mind if the BR is in Halo: Reach, but I want all of the other weapons to be effective as well (weapons like the spiker, plasma pistol, plasma rifle, and so on).

[Edited on 07.16.2009 6:37 PM PDT]

  • 07.16.2009 6:33 PM PDT
Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach

lucky member no.999 of SAS Halo3

Posted by: FinestCrimson
Posted by: STiS
omg how is this thread still going

all the OP's points are based on faulty logic and misinformation

halo has always had a weapon that functioned like the BR...that point alone destroys the OP's arguement

He isn't suggesting that there shouldn't be a weapon like the BR, but one that replaces it and is more balanced (or if Bungie can, make the BR balanced).

single shot or weaker bullets?

  • 07.16.2009 6:34 PM PDT
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NO!!! I need a BR period. so STFU OP and get good. take ur spray and pray elsewhere.

  • 07.16.2009 6:35 PM PDT
Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach
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If you want to remove the BR, go play another game seriously

  • 07.16.2009 6:37 PM PDT
Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach. (Update-7/16/09 : New weapons added.)

Gamertag: Vengeance304

Posted by: STiS
Posted by: FinestCrimson
Posted by: STiS
omg how is this thread still going

all the OP's points are based on faulty logic and misinformation

halo has always had a weapon that functioned like the BR...that point alone destroys the OP's arguement

He isn't suggesting that there shouldn't be a weapon like the BR, but one that replaces it and is more balanced (or if Bungie can, make the BR balanced).


ITS IS BALANCED

if anything it is underpowered for what it is....A UTILITARIAN WEAPON

its not just a weapon that fills some tiny niche in a linear weapon system

the fact that there is a utilitarian weapon is what makes halo MP gameplay unique...its what makes it halo


You are right, there is always a "well-rounded" weapon in Halo, but in Halo 1 a lot of the other weapons were still effective (a great example being the plasma rifle) and the gameplay was still great.

  • 07.16.2009 6:40 PM PDT
Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
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By saying that the BR is overpowered and stating that you wish the weapon to be altered in order to make it less effective, you are wanting this game to be balanced down to the AR, or any other weapon that has ALWAYS been limited to close-ranged scenarios. Unless, you are just wanting the burst functionality gone...but you are also implying that its range is too much (another indication that you want this game to be balanced to help out people using close-ranged weapons). I am not looking to base it around any weapon. In fact, that is the exact opposite of my plan. Removing the BR, and leaving every other weapon the way it is now, would make all weapons more appealing, as there is no weapon that easily disposes of them in multiple scenarios.

Here's an "obvious" question...Does a H3 4-shot with the BR beat an AR in CQC? NO. The reason why the BR is so strong at close-range is because it deals headshots. The Carbine and Magnum are just as effective. Toning down the range or power of these headshot weapons do nothing for their close-ranged effectiveness. You really can't argue with this, because I just stated facts. If we tone down the power, it would do less damage. If it does less damage, it is less effective. The range doesnt matter. Right now, 3 headshot's and a beatdown kills. Toning it down could make it a 4 shot/melee kill. It would then be less effective at close range.

And, as expected, you are falling into calling a weapon overpowered, when indeed everything else is underpowered. You didn't even answer the question. You can have a strong weapon and have a balanced game; that is the problem with this topic. You think in order to balance it you should only decrease power in certain weapons; you can also increase power in certain weapons. Every weapon in Red Faction:Guerrilla is stronger than the H3 BR, and that game also has a much better balanced weapon set. I believe Bunge themselves said the M6D was "unbalanced" and "broken". The weapon does way more damage then most others, and it does more then it was meant to. It was incredibly powerful and way too accurate. It could kill at a distance in teh hads of a decent player, and a good player could wreck everyone with it. And in case you haven't noticed, this is Halo, not Red Faction.

Well, considering you haven't made any indication that you have had much experience with Halo:CE, or were too young to really enjoy the game to its fullest, I don't know how to respond to this. But, if you really want the game to be dumbed down to your liking, I am sure the customization would allow for it. Combat Evolved was the game that got me into gaming, It was my favorite Mac game and my first game after i bought an Xbox. I have played teh campaign multiple times, and have been to many CE LAN parties. I have plenty of experience with the M6D and it's ability to kill from roclet spawn at Beaver Creek, or camp from on top of the bases at Hang 'Em High, and watch the invis at Wizard. It was effective in all those situations, as well as CQB. It was capable of a three-headshot-kill at a pretty far range, and was very, very accurate. Nothing about it was under powered.

Let's also keep in mind that as you balance weapons, you have to include all weapons (yes, Power Weapons, too). 1-hit Power Weapons should be balanced as well. The main reason MLG used the M6D Pistol or the BR as a spawn weapon is because it has sufficient power to balance out the controllable items (Rockets, OS, et cetera). It seems to me that you read neither all of my OP nor the replies to this thread. I am not saying "Remove the BR, but leave everything else" Im saying "Replace the BR with one of the suggested weapons" because they all seem to fill your requirements (i.e. effective against power weapons) without being the new BR, or the new weapon we all rely on.

  • 07.16.2009 6:41 PM PDT

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
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Posted by: STiS
Posted by: The EAKLE
Posted by: STiS
omg how is this thread still going

all the OP's points are based on faulty logic and misinformation

halo has always had a weapon that functioned like the BR...that point alone destroys the OP's arguement
Would it be too much to ask you to either actually contribute to the discussion, or not post?


your OP is a non started for a discussion...there is no discussion in this thread

there are people condemning your retarded logic and you denying it and then other people bumping it by having their own side discussions
Right at the top of my OP, it italics, is the point of this thread. Discussing the possible removal of the BR.

  • 07.16.2009 6:44 PM PDT
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i think bungie will want to see if the uber-halo CE pistol makes teh BR a bit less goodish

anyway, nice post, has many good points

  • 07.16.2009 6:46 PM PDT
Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach. (Update-7/16/09 : New weapons added.)

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
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Posted by: STiS
People claim that teh BR is a needed weapon. That is flat out wrong. Halo: Combat Evolved was a fantastic game and it had no BR. It is often said that flag games become annoying with ARs because you cant kill the carrier from a distance, but none of these claims were made in Halo Combat Evolved because we didnt know of an unbalanced starting weapon. We did just fine with our ARs up until Halo 2.

BAM your point is moot

HCE had a BR...no it had a weapon that functioned like the BR but was even more effective

your whole OP is flawed and broken bcuz it is founded on misinformation
Yes, Combat Evolved had an M6D pistol. That is true. It is also true that when playing normal slayer (not Slayer Pro) each map had a different starting weapon. In this case, you had to find pistols if oyu wanted them, and they acted more like power weapons.

  • 07.16.2009 6:46 PM PDT

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
$.50 in store credit.

Posted by: STiS
Posted by: The EAKLE
Posted by: STiS
People claim that teh BR is a needed weapon. That is flat out wrong. Halo: Combat Evolved was a fantastic game and it had no BR. It is often said that flag games become annoying with ARs because you cant kill the carrier from a distance, but none of these claims were made in Halo Combat Evolved because we didnt know of an unbalanced starting weapon. We did just fine with our ARs up until Halo 2.

BAM your point is moot

HCE had a BR...no it had a weapon that functioned like the BR but was even more effective

your whole OP is flawed and broken bcuz it is founded on misinformation
Yes, Combat Evolved had an M6D pistol. That is true. It is also true that when playing normal slayer (not Slayer Pro) each map had a different starting weapon. In this case, you had to find pistols if oyu wanted them, and they acted more like power weapons.


uh....thats exactly how h3 works with the BR instead of the pistol
Yes, but there are way more BRs on maps in H3 then there were pistols on maps in CE.

  • 07.16.2009 6:50 PM PDT