Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach. (Update-7/16/09 : New weapons added.)
  • Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach. (Update-7/16/09 : New weapons added.)

Posted by: MLG Armor King
no offense 'stosh', but I don't think you're funny
Posted by: stosh
No offense, but I don't think you're the armor 'king'.
Map Spotlight - Hydra XXIII
Best. Thread. Ever.
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Posted by: The EAKLE
Posted by: Maverick gw
You're an idiot. That will only remove what competitiveness Halo has left.
I find it a little stupid that all competitiveness in Halo is now based on the BR. Halo CE was in MLG, and it had no BR. It had a pistol that functioned very much like a BR, which is one of the suggestions i made.

If Halo was made the way i suggested, it would not be much different. Either the BR get's a smaller clip and/or becomes slightly less effective at long range, or a new weapon -very similar to the BR- is added. Or the pistol and AR are modified to act more like a BR.


To this quote, there is still the Carbine. The carbine seems like weapon that should take the role of the BR. That, or the BR changes it's function that similiar to the Carbine. What is your view on the Carbine, EAKLE?

  • 07.16.2009 7:00 PM PDT

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Posted by: mubox47
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If you honestly believe that the BR is not overpowered, and everything else is under powered, READ THIS!

Increasing the power of every other weapon would balance the BR. That is true, but imagine what that would be like. ARs would need much more accuracy if they are to be balanced with the BR. They would become effective at much farther ranges, only making more "bullet spray fests" you hate so much.

SMGS would also need more accuracy, and less recoil. They would shoot a little farther, but would no longer have to be fired in short bursts.They would become very deadly weapons at short range, and if fired in bursts possibly deadly at mid range.

Plasma Rifles would nees increased accuracy, and a slower overheat rate. They would cut through shields fast, leaving you open to a grenade, headshot, or just more plasma spray with little to no notice.

Those are just a few examples. All daul-automatic weapons would be farther ranged and way deadlier. If a guy comes up behind you and opens fire with his Plasma Rifle/SMG combo, you would likely be dead before you get in melee range. ARs could spray you from mid range, making a BR much harder use because you can't scope. Imagine a full auto BR. Great and fun to use, but completely frustrating to be shot by.

In short, play Halo with 150% damage turned on, and you'll have an idea what it would be like to increase power of all weapons.

  • 07.16.2009 7:03 PM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Posted by: The EAKLE
Yes, Combat Evolved had an M6D pistol. That is true. It is also true that when playing normal slayer (not Slayer Pro) each map had a different starting weapon. In this case, you had to find pistols if oyu wanted them, and they acted more like power weapons.
You played Default Slayer? I'm terribly sorry you had to experience unbalanced gameplay. The few times I played Default, it was laughable. Halo in its Default form has never been balanced. It was those who changed the settings that made it balanced. If you were to remove the M6D from Default it would still extremely unbalanced (camp Rocket spawn, kill kill kill kill, camp Rocket spawn, repeat).

As we see Halo change in weapon balance, the Power Weapons pretty much stay the same, the mid-ranged weapons get worse, and the other weapons get worse (with the exception of the Needler in H3). How exactly is that making the balance better? It isn't. If Bungie had just simply increased the power of these other weapons (PR, PP, etc.), then the balance would get better. Halo's balance has gotten progressively worse in favor of Power Weapons and Vehicles, whether you want to believe that or not. At least the customization will always allow for it to get better.

Why don't you have a problem with the Carbine? It kills people in the exact same time frame and has a fast RoF which allows for little penalty after missed shots. You seem to think that by getting rid of the BR, it will change the balance of the game. What would change the balance of the game is your perception that starting with a insufficient weapon is the way to go for balance; that is main problem your ideas. As long as their are Power Weapons and Power-ups, starting with a range capable weapon that deals headshots is what balances this game.

  • 07.16.2009 7:05 PM PDT

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Posted by: mubox47
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Posted by: STiS


completely irrelevant


the weapons still fill the same weapon niche...so saying that that niche did not exist in HCE is completely faulty
It is not irrelevant. That is like saying whether there is one sniper on a map or fifty is irrelevant. The CE pistol did fill the same niche as the BR, however, it appeared less often then the BR currently does. There were games in CE where you didn't see a pistol. In Halo 3, someone always uses a BR. I may have worded it wrong in my OP, but the CE pistol was used entirely differently than the H3 BR, although they had similar stats.

  • 07.16.2009 7:08 PM PDT

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
$.50 in store credit.

Posted by: STiS
Posted by: The EAKLE
If you honestly believe that the BR is not overpowered, and everything else is under powered, READ THIS!

Increasing the power of every other weapon would balance the BR. That is true, but imagine what that would be like. ARs would need much more accuracy if they are to be balanced with the BR. They would become effective at much farther ranges, only making more "bullet spray fests" you hate so much.

SMGS would also need more accuracy, and less recoil. They would shoot a little farther, but would no longer have to be fired in short bursts.They would become very deadly weapons at short range, and if fired in bursts possibly deadly at mid range.

Plasma Rifles would nees increased accuracy, and a slower overheat rate. They would cut through shields fast, leaving you open to a grenade, headshot, or just more plasma spray with little to no notice.

Those are just a few examples. All daul-automatic weapons would be farther ranged and way deadlier. If a guy comes up behind you and opens fire with his Plasma Rifle/SMG combo, you would likely be dead before you get in melee range. ARs could spray you from mid range, making a BR much harder use because you can't scope. Imagine a full auto BR. Great and fun to use, but completely frustrating to be shot by.

In short, play Halo with 150% damage turned on, and you'll have an idea what it would be like to increase power of all weapons.



the plasma rifle was perfectly balanced in HCE...just make it more like that
What about the SMG, and Spiker? They will become more powerful, and they were not in CE. What can we base them on? What about Bruteshots, maulers, hammers, and swords? This is not Halo: Combat evolved, so we can not turn to that for all our answers.

  • 07.16.2009 7:11 PM PDT
Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach

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Posted by: Hylebos
Posted by: McChimpy
By starting everybody out with an equally powerful weapon, skill decided the outcome, not luck.

So in Reach we should all spawn with plasma pistols? They are equally powerful weapons, so skill decides the outcome, not luck.

That is the type of Logic MLG uses to justify their use of the battle rifle, and it doesn't fool everyone.

But this is a bit off topic, because we are talking about whether or not the battle rifle should be in Reach or not, or if it should be replaced by a pistol or what-not.
The difference between the BR and PP is that the BR is versatile while the PP isn't. He forgot to mention that part. If we all spawned with PPs, it would be even more about luck than with AR starts because whoever got the power weapons in the first 30 seconds automatically wins the match with PP starts.

  • 07.16.2009 7:17 PM PDT
Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach. (Update-7/16/09 : New weapons added.)

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Posted by: mubox47
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Once again, if you read all of my OP and the replies to this thread, we would not be having half these arguments. Yes, there does need to be a headshot capable weapon, hence the CR and SCP i suggested. Yes, the Carbine is also a mid-long range weapon. I have already stated that it is similar to the BR, yet different. A carbine needs to land more headshots, so at a greater distance the other player has more time to react (so it is less effective at long range) and at close range you have to unload more bullets to drop their shields and throw a punch (less effective at close range). Thus, the Carbine serves great as a mid range weapon, which is what it is meant to be.

Please, could you two read all of the replies so you stop asking already answered questions.

  • 07.16.2009 7:18 PM PDT
Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach. (Update-7/16/09 : New weapons added.)

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
$.50 in store credit.

Posted by: STiS
Posted by: The EAKLE
Posted by: STiS
Posted by: The EAKLE
If you honestly believe that the BR is not overpowered, and everything else is under powered, READ THIS!

Increasing the power of every other weapon would balance the BR. That is true, but imagine what that would be like. ARs would need much more accuracy if they are to be balanced with the BR. They would become effective at much farther ranges, only making more "bullet spray fests" you hate so much.

SMGS would also need more accuracy, and less recoil. They would shoot a little farther, but would no longer have to be fired in short bursts.They would become very deadly weapons at short range, and if fired in bursts possibly deadly at mid range.

Plasma Rifles would nees increased accuracy, and a slower overheat rate. They would cut through shields fast, leaving you open to a grenade, headshot, or just more plasma spray with little to no notice.

Those are just a few examples. All daul-automatic weapons would be farther ranged and way deadlier. If a guy comes up behind you and opens fire with his Plasma Rifle/SMG combo, you would likely be dead before you get in melee range. ARs could spray you from mid range, making a BR much harder use because you can't scope. Imagine a full auto BR. Great and fun to use, but completely frustrating to be shot by.

In short, play Halo with 150% damage turned on, and you'll have an idea what it would be like to increase power of all weapons.



the plasma rifle was perfectly balanced in HCE...just make it more like that
What about the SMG, and Spiker? They will become more powerful, and they were not in CE. What can we base them on? What about Bruteshots, maulers, hammers, and swords? This is not Halo: Combat evolved, so we can not turn to that for all our answers.


ugh you missed the point

im just saying...increasing the damage is not the only way to make a weapon more effective
We could give them more accuracy, add larger clips, and probably other stuff im not thinking of. The thing is, all weapons balance with themselves right now, except the BR and the magnum. Where most have enough ammo for two kills, the BR has enough ammo for three, and it has a rather quick reload, and functions at all ranges. The mangum, on the other hand, has onle enough for one kill per clip, and is not a very accurate weapon.

Take the SMG for example. It is deadly at close range. To balance that, it has a small clip. It is only effective for about 5 seconds before you reload. To prevent people firing a full five seconds, recoil kicks in after two seconds of continuous fire. Now, it is effective in short bursts at close range.

Let's look at the BR. Kills in four headshots. Has a X2 scope. TO balance it killing at extreme ranges, spread is added to the bursts. It is still accurate at pretty far ranges, and it can kill in about two seconds. If you fire it from extreme ranges, you can kill in 5 or 6 headshots. Using a few extra shots per kill still allows two kills (plus a few extra shots) thanks to it's large clip.

So, while most weapons have a flaw that limits them in some way, the BR can still be used in so many situations. Even by increasing other weapon uses, the BR is just too versatile in it's current state.

  • 07.16.2009 7:30 PM PDT
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they shouldnt change the br and thay should ceap it

  • 07.16.2009 7:31 PM PDT
Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach

Go die in a hole

  • 07.16.2009 7:33 PM PDT
Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach. (Update-7/16/09 : New weapons added.)

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Posted by: The EAKLE
Once again, if you read all of my OP and the replies to this thread, we would not be having half these arguments. Yes, there does need to be a headshot capable weapon, hence the CR and SCP i suggested. Yes, the Carbine is also a mid-long range weapon. I have already stated that it is similar to the BR, yet different. A carbine needs to land more headshots, so at a greater distance the other player has more time to react (so it is less effective at long range) and at close range you have to unload more bullets to drop their shields and throw a punch (less effective at close range). Thus, the Carbine serves great as a mid range weapon, which is what it is meant to be.

Please, could you two read all of the replies so you stop asking already answered questions.
First of all, the Carbine only needs to land ONE headshot, just like every headshot weapon in the existence of Halo.

Second of all, the Carbine is just as powerful as the BR. The only difference is that a missed bullet does not affect you as much with the Carbine as it does with the BR. The BR's wider spread also allows for more missed bullets, which also gives the Carbine a slight advantage.

I, personally, HATE the current functionality of the BR. It lacks range and makes Grenade+headshot too easy. If it was a single-shot, then I would like it much better. The M6G Magnum is much more fun to use. However, having a single-shot weapon with the same range as the H3 BR (*prays that it doesn't get any worse for Reach*) does not improve the balance for Default AR starts. But, I also don't like the Carbine; its fast RoF takes away some of the skill involved.

  • 07.16.2009 7:34 PM PDT

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
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Posted by: Jiggly Luv
Posted by: The EAKLE
Once again, if you read all of my OP and the replies to this thread, we would not be having half these arguments. Yes, there does need to be a headshot capable weapon, hence the CR and SCP i suggested. Yes, the Carbine is also a mid-long range weapon. I have already stated that it is similar to the BR, yet different. A carbine needs to land more headshots, so at a greater distance the other player has more time to react (so it is less effective at long range) and at close range you have to unload more bullets to drop their shields and throw a punch (less effective at close range). Thus, the Carbine serves great as a mid range weapon, which is what it is meant to be.

Please, could you two read all of the replies so you stop asking already answered questions.
First of all, the Carbine only needs to land ONE headshot, just like every headshot weapon in the existence of Halo.

Second of all, the Carbine is just as powerful as the BR. The only difference is that a missed bullet does not affect you as much with the Carbine as it does with the BR. The BR's wider spread also allows for more missed bullets, which also gives the Carbine a slight advantage.

I, personally, HATE the current functionality of the BR. It lacks range and makes Grenade+headshot too easy. If it was a single-shot, then I would like it much better. The M6G Magnum is much more fun to use. However, having a single-shot weapon with the same range as the H3 BR (*prays that it doesn't get any worse for Reach*) does not improve the balance for Default AR starts. But, I also don't like the Carbine; its fast RoF takes away some of the skill involved.
I believe the Carbine takes six headshots to kill.

Does anyone know how many shots a carbine holds per clip?

  • 07.16.2009 7:37 PM PDT

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
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Posted by: superduper66
Posted by: The EAKLE
Posted by: Maverick gw
You're an idiot. That will only remove what competitiveness Halo has left.
I find it a little stupid that all competitiveness in Halo is now based on the BR. Halo CE was in MLG, and it had no BR. It had a pistol that functioned very much like a BR, which is one of the suggestions i made.

If Halo was made the way i suggested, it would not be much different. Either the BR get's a smaller clip and/or becomes slightly less effective at long range, or a new weapon -very similar to the BR- is added. Or the pistol and AR are modified to act more like a BR.


To this quote, there is still the Carbine. The carbine seems like weapon that should take the role of the BR. That, or the BR changes it's function that similiar to the Carbine. What is your view on the Carbine, EAKLE?
Sorry about that Megacool. Apparently i missed your post in all this flaming.

I'd prefer a single shot, smaller clip BR that works like a Covenant Carbine. I have listed in other posts that i prefer the carbine, because i believe it is more balanced. It requires more headshots, so at a distance the player being shot has more time to react and at close range you have to land more hits before a Melee will kill.

  • 07.16.2009 7:42 PM PDT

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
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Posted by: SH Xavier
18 per clip.
Really now? Well, as long as we are reducing clp sizes, that could be 12 or 14.

Anyway, i have listed many times why i believe it to be more balanced. I stand by those posts.

  • 07.16.2009 7:46 PM PDT
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Everyone I think if you all looked at my earlier post on page 12 I think my suggestion would please everyone and end this argument.

  • 07.16.2009 7:50 PM PDT
Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach

Take a step back with me and enjoy a taste of the bittersweet that is our current generation.

I enjoy Battlefield and Call of Duty, and Gears of War.

20 years old, manager of my family's business, aspiring officer of the law.

I love anything political.

facepalm this post is, its not overpowered, at range the ar kills .5 secs slower than a perfect fourshot

  • 07.16.2009 7:59 PM PDT
Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach. (Update-7/16/09 : New weapons added.)

Take a step back with me and enjoy a taste of the bittersweet that is our current generation.

I enjoy Battlefield and Call of Duty, and Gears of War.

20 years old, manager of my family's business, aspiring officer of the law.

I love anything political.

the carbine also kills slightly faster than the br with 7 perfect headshots

  • 07.16.2009 8:00 PM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Posted by: The EAKLE
I believe the Carbine takes six headshots to kill.
*avoids flaming you for this*

Every single headshot weapon in the existence of this game's franchise has only needed just ONE headshot. The M6D Pistol, for example, took 2 body followed by a headshot. The BR is 3 body shots followed by 1 headshot (it isn't always a 4-shot, though, because of its very sporadic bullet spread). Just like those, the Carbine is 6 or 7 body shots, can't remember, followed by 1 headshot (also has a sporadic bullet spread). The M6G Magnum takes 4 body shots followed by 1 headshot (has an even more laughable sporadic bullet spread).

If you haven't noticed they all take only one headshot. Headshots in this game only do more damage when the health is low enough for a kill.


And, while we are on clip size...why not increase the clip sizes of all the other weapons? The BR's clip size right now allows for 2 kills with all body shots just like every weapon. The problem here is that headshots increase the amount of kills. Decreasing the clip size would make no difference, really. You will still be whining that someone is shooting you before you saw him. So, what's the difference? I already dominate AR users with my M6G Magnum in Default, because it has a range advantage and deals headshots. Unfortunately, it lacks enough range to be consistent at range and enjoyable to use at range.

[Edited on 07.16.2009 8:44 PM PDT]

  • 07.16.2009 8:02 PM PDT

I am of an open mind and I am willing to hear criticism. Also: That's stupid and you're stupid.

To end the argument that MLG has anything to do with whether or not the BR should stay...

...quoted from ABottledHo;
The reason MLG doesn't use a large variety of weapons is because they try to have less weapons as possible. Seeing as how the BR can fill in an AR's position (hence, overpowered), there is no need for an AR in MLG. The reason they minimize the # of weapons is to reduce randomness, and keep it more competitive (I.E. bland and boring).

MLG would be glad to accept any other weapon if the BR were to no longer be available.

  • 07.16.2009 8:12 PM PDT