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This topic has moved here: Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach
  • Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach
Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach

good god ive never heard a more noob post. i threw up multiple times while reading this. you are probably just mad because you get killed by a BR every time you try to pull out your godly AR. The BR is a noob weapon? half a second shot burst from the AR and a beat down kills instantly. not to mention the AR's way to over powered lunge. The only time a BR beats someone with an AR close range is if the AR person is a complete idiot or the BR user gets really lucky. i know when i first put halo 3 into my xbox i used an AR and searched in social slayer and got multi kills without even knowing what they were. The BR combat system is so much more complex and deep then the AR. with a BR battle you have things like strafing and ghandi hopping. with an AR battle you have point shoot beatdown. thats it. head shots have no effect. as where with a BR it takes 3 body shots and a head shot to kill someone. without the last head shot (which actually takes skill) it would take another 4 body shots to kill. seriously kid if you hate the BR so much. just go play Halo: CE and shut the -blam!- up.

  • 07.20.2009 7:17 AM PDT
Subject: Alter/Replace the BR in Halo: Reach Update-7/16/09 New weapons added

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
$.50 in store credit.

Posted by: Rhodes
The EAKLE it seems to me your only actually listening to posts you want to hear and not trying to understand the other side of the argument. Halo has always been played this way and it works and it's not going to change period and Bungie are definitely not going to listen to your arguments as they are incredibly flawed so just come to terms with it, most the posts that are insulting you (slightly) are bringing up very valid points so actually read them.
Like i said before, im making a new, better post. If it seems like im ignoring a valid argument, that's probably because i am looking at it and using it for revising my OP. Other reasons i ignore some posts is either becauase they involve realism (Halo is not realistic) the timeline (we have already been over this and there is no way to tell whether it appeared or not) or because it somehow flames AR users, me, or supporters of this thread. I try not to ignore anyone for no reason, although i may have missed some posts.

  • 07.20.2009 8:00 AM PDT
Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach

Take a step back with me and enjoy a taste of the bittersweet that is our current generation.

I enjoy Battlefield and Call of Duty, and Gears of War.

20 years old, manager of my family's business, aspiring officer of the law.

I love anything political.

.facepalm, there is so much ridiculous BS in the OP, or maybe he just can't handle the fact that the BR is fine

  • 07.20.2009 8:11 AM PDT
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An AR user will (most of the time) kill a BR user at close range. The BR is not as good in close quater combat scenarios as people will make it out to be. 3 BR shots and a melee is more time consuming than 6 AR bullets and a melee.

Now, usually when the BR user is killing an AR user, it is at medium range. The only times I usually see an AR user being killed by a BR user is at medium range, outside the AR's effective range. The range you are talking about EAKLE where the BR user will kill the AR user is at medium range. Hence the reason why a close combat oriented weapon will falter against a medium range weapon.

Also, the BR is not as effective at long range as other people make it out to be. Yes you can kill at longer ranges, but do you realize how much ammo you will burn through in order to kill someone at a longer range? I'll usually 4-6 shot people at medium range, but to kill someone at a longer range, I average 7-10 shots. I consider myself slightly better than the average player, so these numbers will differ for those people who are worse than me (namely, the average player). If a sniper is being killed by a BR user consistently, than they are out of their effective range. Same issue with the AR user; the Sniper is trying to fight a BR user in medium range. This is an example of either poor tactics, or the BR user rushing the sniper player.

Most of Halo's combat is mainly at medium range. The Pit is a wonderful example of this. You still have some areas where CQC is effective and areas where snipers are effective, but more areas are fought at medium range. Example: CQC is fought closer to the Sword room and either base. Snipers have their Sniper Towers to fight each other and Rocket hall. the BR is effective at everything else. Another example? Isolation. CQC is fought in each base, but BR is effective everywhere else. A third example? Ghost Town. CGQ is fought in the middle structure and a bit in the Defender's base, the Sniper kills people from its spawn or on that structure where you can't get on top of to the sniper spawn's left. The BR is used everywhere else. A fourth? Construct. CQC is fought at the lifts, Sniper is used up top or at the ends of halls, and the BR is effective everywhere else. More people use the BR on maps because the map's design calls for it.

In short, the BR has its disadvantages against weapons such as the Shotgun and AR at their effective ranges (close combat) and against Snipers/Lasers at their effective range (long range). However, the way the maps are played call for more medium range scenarios, hence BR/Carbine use.

A final thing to note is that there are much more factors in combat than just weapons. An AR combined with a grenade or two (depending on how much damage either grenade inflicts) can kill a BR user at medium range. I've done it many times myself. There's also teammates that'll help you in many situations, such as your team's sniper (who'll weaken your enemy's shields) for you to finish them off. Equipment is another example. Subtle mistakes, such as a teammate accidently shooting their teammate makes it that much easier for their enemy to take one of them out. There's so many factors in combat that really anything can turn the tide for another player.

  • 07.20.2009 9:05 AM PDT

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
$.50 in store credit.

Thanks for the in-depth reply, Josh. I'll see if i can cover any of this in my new post. You've given me a lot to think about.

  • 07.20.2009 9:13 AM PDT
Subject: Alter/Replace the BR in Halo: Reach Update-7/16/09 New weapons added
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Posted by: The EAKLE
Thanks for the in-depth reply, Josh. I'll see if i can cover any of this in my new post. You've given me a lot to think about.


No problem. I was originally not going to post anything at all, but I figured that I've got nothing better to do. I have to find a way to kill my boredom. =P

EDIT: Also, Carbine doesn't need any nerfs. I've seen so many people (including myself at times, not all the time mind you, lol) who only get 1 kill against a fully shielded enemy before they have to reload so that they have enough bullets to kill another player. I have many friends new to Halo, and others who play Halo casually. I should know.

[Edited on 07.20.2009 9:34 AM PDT]

  • 07.20.2009 9:22 AM PDT
Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
$.50 in store credit.

Posted by: Josh 22 T
Posted by: The EAKLE
Thanks for the in-depth reply, Josh. I'll see if i can cover any of this in my new post. You've given me a lot to think about.


No problem. I was originally not going to post anything at all, but I figured that I've got nothing better to do. I have to find a way to kill my boredom. =P
That's actually why i started this thread. I though a new pistol would be cool, though of how it would work, but realized it would be overshadowed by a BR. That got me thinking and i realized most weapons are. After some games of Halo i saw how the BR effected game play, and thought it may be better without it. I was bored in my spare time at work so i decided to voice my opinion on the BR, and how toning it down of replacing it could improve Halo.

  • 07.20.2009 9:25 AM PDT
Subject: Alter/Replace the BR in Halo: Reach Update-7/16/09 New weapons added

O hai

Posted by: The EAKLE

Wow. Two whole maps have less then three BRs. How many more can you list?

(High ground has 3 or 4. The pit has 3 per side, for teams of 4... Foundry has around 4 i think. None of this satisfies an 8 player game...

Yes, you woulld need luck if you want to shoot through the massive hill in your way. Also, you dont spawn at top mid in guardian or on top of the pelican at Valhalla. Ever.

(No, but I spawn at s2 on blackout and have to shoot to br3, bottom gold on guardian and have to shoot to s1, 2nd br on the pit and have to shoot to sword, etc.)

So your way is the only way to play? I dont think so.

(No, there can be other ways, but when I enter matchmaking, i would like to play the game as it was designed to be played. This doesn't involve racing, but shooting at the opposing team. That's exactly why custom games were invented, to have fun and play differently.

The SMG replaced the AR as the UNSC's automatic weapon. That seems like a new AR to me, even though it was a dual wield weapon.

(Fair enough, though it was not intended to. The AR became redundant with the implications of the smg, and was removed after the smg was added.

Guardian is one of the few maps where a shotgun is more dominate than a BR. On most maps, becuase of the BRs range and how often it is used, a shotgun can not be used for much more than camping.

(Then it's not being used properly. Shotguns are to be used in confined quarters, which is camping. They were designed to be camped with, you don't go running across Valhalla with it.BR's don't force you to camp with a shotgun, shotguns force you to, with their reduced range and accuracy.


[Edited on 07.20.2009 10:05 AM PDT]

  • 07.20.2009 10:03 AM PDT
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Posted by: weird death guy

(High ground has 3 or 4. The pit has 3 per side, for teams of 4... Foundry has around 4 i think. None of this satisfies an 8 player game...)


However, High Ground has many Carbines. I can count at least 6 Carbines on High Ground off of the top of my head, and 4 BRs. Don't discount the Carbine, as the Carbine and BR fills the same role. I'm sure that there's at least 1 more BR or Carbine, I'd have to go check. Foundry has 6 BRs in total. However, Cold Storage has only 1 BR, and 4v4 can comfortably be played on that map.

I've killed players who spawn at top middle on Guardian, EAKLE. I've got a saved film for proof.

  • 07.20.2009 10:22 AM PDT

O hai

Posted by: Josh 22 T
Posted by: weird death guy

(High ground has 3 or 4. The pit has 3 per side, for teams of 4... Foundry has around 4 i think. None of this satisfies an 8 player game...)


However, High Ground has many Carbines. I can count at least 6 Carbines on High Ground off of the top of my head, and 4 BRs. Don't discount the Carbine, as the Carbine and BR fills the same role. I'm sure that there's at least 1 more BR or Carbine, I'd have to go check. Foundry has 6 BRs in total. However, Cold Storage has only 1 BR, and 4v4 can comfortably be played on that map.

I've killed players who spawn at top middle on Guardian, EAKLE. I've got a saved film for proof.


4v4s work with brs or ars? I'd imagine that it could work with ars because of the cramped nature of the map...

  • 07.20.2009 10:33 AM PDT
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Posted by: weird death guy
Posted by: Josh 22 T
Posted by: weird death guy

(High ground has 3 or 4. The pit has 3 per side, for teams of 4... Foundry has around 4 i think. None of this satisfies an 8 player game...)


However, High Ground has many Carbines. I can count at least 6 Carbines on High Ground off of the top of my head, and 4 BRs. Don't discount the Carbine, as the Carbine and BR fills the same role. I'm sure that there's at least 1 more BR or Carbine, I'd have to go check. Foundry has 6 BRs in total. However, Cold Storage has only 1 BR, and 4v4 can comfortably be played on that map.

I've killed players who spawn at top middle on Guardian, EAKLE. I've got a saved film for proof.


4v4s work with brs or ars? I'd imagine that it could work with ars because of the cramped nature of the map...


When there was DLC Slayer, Team BRs was awesome on Cold Storage. I love BRs on CS. I think that's the full extent to those kind of maps though. Midship had 2 BRs and 1 Carbine, right? Assuming that Heretic will be a 100% remake (besides equipment), that'll be another map to add to the list.

  • 07.20.2009 10:39 AM PDT

-The Pheonix is what I choose to be when striking down an opponent and helping out an ally-
-Join me for together we can accomplish anything- --HellBringer UD--

that is so true

  • 07.20.2009 11:17 AM PDT
Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach
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All I want is for the Halo 2 Magnum to return, and the current Assault Rifle to blend with the old Assault Rifle. The BR, Carbine, etc. is absolutely fine (especially the Carbine, reducing ammo, power, and range will just make it hated).

  • 07.20.2009 11:40 AM PDT
Subject: Alter/Replace the BR in Halo: Reach Update-7/16/09 New weapons added

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
$.50 in store credit.

Posted by: Josh 22 T
Posted by: weird death guy

(High ground has 3 or 4. The pit has 3 per side, for teams of 4... Foundry has around 4 i think. None of this satisfies an 8 player game...)


However, High Ground has many Carbines. I can count at least 6 Carbines on High Ground off of the top of my head, and 4 BRs. Don't discount the Carbine, as the Carbine and BR fills the same role. I'm sure that there's at least 1 more BR or Carbine, I'd have to go check. Foundry has 6 BRs in total. However, Cold Storage has only 1 BR, and 4v4 can comfortably be played on that map.

I've killed players who spawn at top middle on Guardian, EAKLE. I've got a saved film for proof.
Im a little surprised by that. I thought there were no spawns there, because it seems like a terrible place to spawn. I'll check that out tonight.

Most of the maps with less than 4 BRs per side are meant for close quarters. Foundry is a mid sized map, and Cold Storage has lots of halls and pasages that connect the two main rooms. Most maps that 4v4s (or larger parties) are played on have plenty of BRs, and also you can get BR starts on them.

  • 07.20.2009 12:06 PM PDT
Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach

Character Artist -- Electronic Arts

I disgree with OP.
The AR is the major design flaw.

5 Bullets + Melee is wickedly strong in close combat. But the AR does not provide proper hit feedback at a distance.

I generally use the SMG for what the function of the AR should be.

But given the possibility of the Silenced SMG that does headshots being in Reach, all of this may work out candidly.

  • 07.20.2009 12:56 PM PDT

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
$.50 in store credit.

Well, im about halfway into my new OP. The new one will likely be posted later this week or early next week.

  • 07.20.2009 1:12 PM PDT

Tank beats everything!

Visit my youtube channel for Vehicular awesomeness!

The BR should be nerfed or removed, it's that simple. It is extremely over powered, and needs a replacement. Halo should be played the way it was meant to be by Bungie, not by MLG.

  • 07.20.2009 2:23 PM PDT
Subject: Alter/Replace the BR in Halo: Reach Update-7/16/09 New weapons added

Here’s what Luke had to say about the differences in treatment between the Spartans and Elites in Reach:

“Instead of piece-by-piece customization like the Spartans, Elite customization is a full model swap with models selected from the various Elite classes appearing throughout the Campaign. There are all kinds of reasons for this, not the least of which is our continued emphasis on the Spartan as your identity in Reach.”

We could also make the BR more specialized, by making the scope 3x or 4x, so that there is a gap of effectiveness.

Or, you could give the AR bonus damage for headshots.

But what I want is the Halo 2 magnum with a scope and dual wielding.

[Edited on 07.20.2009 2:28 PM PDT]

  • 07.20.2009 2:27 PM PDT
Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach

Posted by: Armeddragon77
The BR should be nerfed or removed, it's that simple. It is extremely over powered, and needs a replacement. Halo should be played the way it was meant to be by Bungie, not by MLG.
I agree, Bungie should go back to regular games with the AR as the starting weapon. In MLG it should be the starting weapon, but just in MLG (and SWAT).

  • 07.20.2009 2:46 PM PDT

Character Artist -- Electronic Arts

Hey Guys, I've come in here to tell Bungie how to design their game.
I would know, I have played their game extensively, thus I know how to make it bettAr.

  • 07.20.2009 2:48 PM PDT

Posted by: SS_Crow
I disgree with OP.
The AR is the major design flaw.

5 Bullets + Melee is wickedly strong in close combat. But the AR does not provide proper hit feedback at a distance.

I generally use the SMG for what the function of the AR should be.

But given the possibility of the Silenced SMG that does headshots being in Reach, all of this may work out candidly.
Melee attacks always take your shields down, but it takes more than five AR bullets to kill some one without shields. I don't know about you, but the AR is a mid range weapon, you didn't explain yourself clearly right there.

  • 07.20.2009 2:50 PM PDT
Subject: Alter/Replace the BR in Halo: Reach Update-7/16/09 New weapons added

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Posted by: The EAKLE
Posted by: Josh 22 T
I've killed players who spawn at top middle on Guardian, EAKLE. I've got a saved film for proof.
Im a little surprised by that. I thought there were no spawns there, because it seems like a terrible place to spawn. I'll check that out tonight.
It was my understanding that originally Guardian had spawns on TopMid, but was later removed for MM after so many complaints. I wouldn't be surprised if Bungie hasn't fixed that, though. If they have, however, you won't be able to see the changes in your Default Guardian, unless you have saved the changes to a new map variant.


Also, The EAKLE, try to avoid using "MLG" to make a point in your other thread you have been working on. Using "competitive" will have a much better connotation and includes a much larger community. Most people, believe it or not, who prefer BR starts or using ranged weapons do so because they have more fun and are trying to win, as everyone should. MLG just takes that fun and balance a step further and creates a whole set of settings to expand on it. (This is only if you think this will support any point you make; avoiding it alltogether would be better.)

  • 07.20.2009 2:57 PM PDT

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
$.50 in store credit.

Posted by: Jiggly Luv
Posted by: The EAKLE
Posted by: Josh 22 T
I've killed players who spawn at top middle on Guardian, EAKLE. I've got a saved film for proof.
Im a little surprised by that. I thought there were no spawns there, because it seems like a terrible place to spawn. I'll check that out tonight.
It was my understanding that originally Guardian had spawns on TopMid, but was later removed for MM after so many complaints. I wouldn't be surprised if Bungie hasn't fixed that, though. If they have, however, you won't be able to see the changes in your Default Guardian, unless you have saved the changes to a new map variant.


Also, The EAKLE, try to avoid using "MLG" to make a point in your other thread you have been working on. Using "competitive" will have a much better connotation and includes a much larger community. Most people, believe it or not, who prefer BR starts or using ranged weapons do so because they have more fun and are trying to win, as everyone should. MLG just takes that fun and balance a step further and creates a whole set of settings to expand on it. (This is only if you think this will support any point you make; avoiding it alltogether would be better.)
I've altered points like that and the "BR promotes camping" sections, as well as other areas that were contravercial (SP? I have no spell check on my laptop) to make them more clear or just removed them and made the points some other way. It's already much larger, and i think much clearer. Hopefully, it will get more of an inteligent discussion than this.

  • 07.20.2009 3:26 PM PDT

Thank You! I personally can't use a BR at all and my kill ratios are terrible. The weapon is too powerful and I can't get close enough to use any other weapon. I would be thrilled if everyone started on a small, closed in map and had an AR. I'd just set my look speed to 8 and go to town. I'd like to never have to deal with a BR again but 1 game without it would be enough. What youve done is added an argument no one can contradict. It's not about personal preference, it would be inaccurate to include it.

[Edited on 07.20.2009 4:24 PM PDT]

  • 07.20.2009 4:13 PM PDT