Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach
  • Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach
Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach

Death and Destruction! Ooh-Rah!

Actually, It just sounds like your bad-mouthing the BR. I agree that some changes would have to be made, but it's still a great gun. Say Bungie took out the BR and had the AR, the game would be dull.

  • 07.22.2009 12:41 AM PDT

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
$.50 in store credit.

While Malerick makes some good points, he is looking at it a little in a close-minded way. Yes, it does entirely come down to how the weapon is used. That is true. However, the BR is able to be used effectively in more situations then any other weapon. I know "it's a utilitarian weapon." So what? Does that mean it should be teh only weapon? Yes, other weapons are overpowered by the weapons you listed. However, the weapon you listed are powerweapons. They are meant to overpower others, and are balanced by small clips and being only effective in one range (for the most part.) Now the BR also overpowers other weapons, and it is just a starting weapon. That is the issue.

Now your comment about me crying about weapons. You asked if weapons are overpowered for being one shot kills. Again, the weapons listed are powerweapons. Rockets are slow moving, easy to see and dodge if you are fast enough, and have limited ammo. At close range they can kill the wielder too. It balances out. Sniper must be a headshot to kill in one shot. Again, they have small clips so they dont last long. They dont work very well in mid or close range either. Also, they have longer spawn times.

  • 07.22.2009 9:01 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Noble Heroic Member

Very well thought out arguements and I agree 100%. Get rid of this all-purpose gun. When an all-purpose gun is added to a game, it breaks the balance and makes all weapons designed for specific tasks useless. the Launcher, Splaser, and sniper, are the only other weapons that I see being picked up in a BR starts game. They already got rid of the BR in ODST, lets take it to Reach now.

  • 07.22.2009 10:40 AM PDT

Enemy of my enemy's enemy is still me enemy. Get it?

Im starting to believe that it is just the way this game is developed that makes everything seem unbalanced, not neccissarily the way the weapons work.
Most maps allow people to stay within medium range of the other team. It doesnt force them into close range except on a few maps.

Since melee is broken in this game, close quarters combat isnt preferred since over 50% of the time, melee battles will end in a tie. So what do people do? They stick with the BR because there is skill involved determining who wins the battle instead of chance like with melee.

Honestly, I stick with the BR in most games too because I know i can beat less skilled players with it. When I run into a group of enemies with an AR, I may have better aim, better manuevering, and smarter use of grenades but there is still chance, not skill, that I will end up dying because of the broken melee system. With BR battles, Im ensured that if I die, it is because the other player was more skillful than me.

Bungie just needs to revamp close quarters battles and go back to Halo 2 melee or Halo CE. With all the "sword lunging" with melee and the fact that even if you hit first you may not live, people are staying away from close range battles because there is less skill and more chance. Even if the better player acts

I say that two things need to happen. Duals by themselves should by much more accurate and function almost effectively as the AR while serving a different purpose. I have thoroughly tested it and a lone SMG is not as effective as an AR in close quarters. The only advantage that it has is that it can kill two people in one clip while the AR can only kill one. (speaking as if both enemies are not hurt by any other factor)

And the second thing deals with melee. Either melee damage should be toned down so you have to shoot someone more before you can beat them down (that is one of the reasons why melee battles are so unguaranteed) or take of the lunging and make it so you have to be absolute point blank with someone in order to melee. This would allow a greater skill gap because you would have to melee at the exact right moment first.

With the current melee system, the beat down range is so huge that when one person may lunge at the other, the other person will have enough time to lunge back, those both of them hitting each other at the same time.

Melee needs to be precise and ties should occur very rarely. If the better player strikes first, he should win. And it shouldnt be about who has better connection either.

If we take out the lunging, people might actually just focus on shooting each other more than the "shoot a few bullets, melee, and then tie and die). Melee should only come in when you run around the corner and collide with someone or you are flanking someone. This game should try to steer clear of the whole scenario of two people running straight at each shooting and then the battle ending with a melee.

If skill is brought back into the close quarters combat (im not talking about spray n pray or how there is no headshots) then people might starting relying on it more instead of taking a BR into their hands to ensure that they will only win or lose based on skill aka who lands more shots on the other. (skill)

This is just an idea but I believe that the AR should have a scope funtion. However, the only way to aim any more accurately with the scope is to single shot it or burst fire it. Those kinds of shots should give it just as much range as the BR....minus the power. The AR still will probably get taken out by a BR if both players are equally skilled (since the AR has less power) but at least an AR user has a chance, especially if he takes an enemy by suprise and wont be completely helpless as longer ranges...just less effective.

  • 07.22.2009 10:40 AM PDT

Clearly because the desktop uses a 3 prong plug and a laptop uses a 2 prong plug, the microwave will fill your car with tostitos better

Posted by: The EAKLE
While Malerick makes some good points, he is looking at it a little in a close-minded way. Yes, it does entirely come down to how the weapon is used. That is true. However, the BR is able to be used effectively in more situations then any other weapon. I know "it's a utilitarian weapon." So what? Does that mean it should be teh only weapon? Yes, other weapons are overpowered by the weapons you listed. However, the weapon you listed are powerweapons. They are meant to overpower others, and are balanced by small clips and being only effective in one range (for the most part.) Now the BR also overpowers other weapons, and it is just a starting weapon. That is the issue.

Now your comment about me crying about weapons. You asked if weapons are overpowered for being one shot kills. Again, the weapons listed are powerweapons. Rockets are slow moving, easy to see and dodge if you are fast enough, and have limited ammo. At close range they can kill the wielder too. It balances out. Sniper must be a headshot to kill in one shot. Again, they have small clips so they dont last long. They dont work very well in mid or close range either. Also, they have longer spawn times.


The BR isn't "teh only weapon". The BR is overpowered at every single range by at least one gun, at long and close range 3+ weapons.

There will always be one gun that is at least slightly more useful than most of the others. The Battle Rifle is well balanced in Halo 3, there aren't enough weapons to counter it in any way at mid range in Halo, and most players don't know how to use weapons in there intended ranges well enough to fend off a player with a BR in a range where its functionality should be less than multiple other weapons.

  • 07.22.2009 10:49 AM PDT
Subject: Alter/Replace the BR in Halo: Reach Update-7/16/09 New weapons added

you make alot of good points, and i think it would be cool if there were just more alternitives to a br that are about the same like a br to a carbine. but I love my br because you have to aim well. it takes about half a clip of AR to kill and body shots with a BR take for ever. unless you can aim with your BR

  • 07.22.2009 11:07 AM PDT
  • gamertag: Hayv
  • user homepage:

The sniper is much more overpowered than the battle rifle. This post=fail

  • 07.22.2009 11:16 AM PDT
Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Posted by: The EAKLE
Rockets are slow moving, easy to see and dodge if you are fast enough
Hehe. I'll assume you are talking about at long range, which is outside of the Rocket's overpowering range.

It balances out.Well, you still don't really understand what "balance" in a FPS really means. At least you understand that clip size is one factor that improves balance.

Sniper must be a headshot to kill in one shot. Again, they have small clips so they dont last long. They dont work very well in mid or close range either. Also, they have longer spawn times. You obviously have never played anybody that is decent at this game. Also, the Sniper is the most effective weapon at all ranges, including close-range, regardless of ammo and clip size. Actually, its close-range use is easier than mid and long range use. I ignore Shotguns and Maulers for that reason; no-scope+Melee is exactly the same as a Shotgun+Melee.

Why can't Power Weapons be balanced? The definition of a Power Weapon is a 1-hit kill weapon. It doesn't mean an overpowered weapon. Power Weapons should require effort to use; they are not something you pick up expecting an easy time using it. By decreasing the power of the mid-ranged game (which should be the most common use of weapons in all shooters) you are creating more unbalance to these Power Weapons; that makes for more frustration, which is a bad thing. Bungie can see this; why can't you? It is why they only nerfed the BR by widening its spread, to keep its Rocket usefulness and to keep its usefulness to hold Snipers at bay.

If you are still stuck on this, you really need to get over it; you are wrong. You acting like you know everything give people who actually do know everything a bad name.

  • 07.22.2009 11:24 AM PDT

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
$.50 in store credit.


If you are still stuck on this, you really need to get over it; you are wrong. You acting like you know everything give people who actually do know everything a bad name.
Nobody knows everything. What every one seems to be thinking here is that im saying "BR IZ WAY TO OVERPOWERD! REMOVE IT NAO!!!!" When in reality, i am simply making a suggestion. Whether you agree with me or not, i have made some points. The BR is almost always useful. It was one of two weapons (the other being a carbine) that has a KpM of three that is not balanced by a slow rate of fire and long spawn times. I will admit, some of my OP has been proven wrong, and i was incorrect on a few facts; the thing is many of my points still stand. I am making a new OP, and it is just over half done. Hopefully when people read it it will be more clear on my points and people will realize im not some BR hating noob. I love the BR, i just the think the game could be better without it.

  • 07.22.2009 11:46 AM PDT

O hai

Posted by: Halo3 Assassian
Posted by: ABotelho
Posted by: Runic Aries
Posted by: The EAKLE
Posted by: Runic Aries
/facepalm
I guess you did not read my epic post. Or you cant handle the truth.


The reason that people were satisfied with the AR and Pistol in Halo CE was because the Pistol was much more accurate and destructive than it is now, the equivalent of a BR. In halo 2 the BR became popular because the Pistol was less powerful and less accurate, Multiplayer also had an effect on the battle rifle, which wasnt added until Halo 2.

Dont assume everyone who posts is an idiot and that you are awesome.

The difference of single shot and burst fire made all the difference. If you think about it, we could just make the BR single shot, reduce it's clip, and it should work like the OP described for a new pistol.

Reduce the BR to a futuristic M1 Grand... cool


You mean make it a carbine? The only difference between a carbine and a BR is the burst/single shot ability. Carbines can therefore kill slightly quicker. Shouldn't we be -blam!-ing about that?

  • 07.22.2009 11:46 AM PDT
Subject: Alter/Replace the BR in Halo: Reach Update-7/16/09 New weapons added

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
$.50 in store credit.

Posted by: H a a Y V
The sniper is much more overpowered than the battle rifle. This post=fail
The sniper also has a slower rate of fire, longer respawn time, and the KpM is goes down with every shot you miss.

  • 07.22.2009 11:50 AM PDT
Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach

Eakle this is ironic but your tool of destruction is the br. So epic fail and the br is never leaving it is too good and too many people like it.

  • 07.22.2009 12:04 PM PDT
Subject: Alter/Replace the BR in Halo: Reach Update-7/16/09 New weapons added

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
$.50 in store credit.

Posted by: VegemiteWarrior
Eakle this is ironic but your tool of destruction is the br. So epic fail and the br is never leaving it is too good and too many people like it.
Where, exactly, did i say i dont use the BR, or that i dont like it? In fact, i believe my post a few posts above yours says that i do like the BR.

Also, this has been pointed out before.

[Edited on 07.22.2009 12:15 PM PDT]

  • 07.22.2009 12:15 PM PDT

5 years and counting on Bungie. I feel old and worthless.

Posted by: The EAKLE
This is not about how good or bad i am at the game, or which gun i prefer. This is for discussing if the BR should be toned down and how, or if it should be removed and what should replace it.

Read the entire OP and all of the replies if you want to post something. If i get asked more questions that were already asked multiple times, i will probably just ignore them.

When i say teh BR is effective at close range, i do not mean very close. I mean right outside the AR's range, in about the pistol's range.



BRs are a major flaw in Halo 3's design. It is a starting weapon that literally anyone can kill with from pretty far distances. Because of it's range and accuracy, it makes all dual wieldable weapons and ARs almost entirely useless. Because it out ranges power weapons like swords and shotguns, the only effective way to use them is camp. Thus, the BR promotes camping.

People claim that the BR is a needed weapon. That is flat out wrong. Halo: Combat Evolved was a fantastic game and it had no BR. It is often said that flag games become annoying with ARs because you cant kill the carrier from a distance, but none of these claims were made in Halo Combat Evolved because we didnt know of an unbalanced starting weapon, besides the pistol. We did just fine with our ARs up until Halo 2.

While CE's M6D was also a mid ranged headshot based weapon, it was used entirely different. It was not a starting weapon in standard slayer, and they were not placed around every corner as the BR now is. In standard slayer the M6D played more like a power weapon then a starting weapon.

In Halo 2, the AR was removed for the SMG, and the Battle Rifle was added. Because the SMGs were dual wieldable and functioned different from an AR, it seemed to be an entire different weapon instead of a new Assault Rifle. With the AR out of the way the BR had a chance at being the new main weapon. It did a decent job because we could not see it's devastating onslaught of other weapons compared to the AR functioning well with them.

With Halo 2 came BR's introduction to MLG. Without the Assault Rifle, the only main weapon to have was the BR, so it became MLG's main weapon. Halo 2 quickly became incredibly popular, and the BR came with it.

Now in Halo 3 MLG has a giant fanbase, and many believe the BR to be the "PRO" weapon over the Asault Rifle, when the truth is the AR never had a chance to shine. The AR returned from Halo CE, but with less ammo. The BR came back with a slight spread. The now weakened AR was slaughtered by the BR in almost every battle, leading people to believe that the AR was bad, instead of the truth that the BR is greatly overpowered. The BR is a favorite of many players because they live under the stereotype that it means they are "good" or "pro", when really it is an easy way to rack up kills.

From looking at nearly anyone's service record you can see the BR as the Tool of Destruction. Why is this? Because if anyone comes up with a close range weapon they are killed before they get the chance to fight. Everyone get's kills with the Battle Rifle because they can. Some great AR user can try to attack, but will get mowed down by a BR "noob" in almost any situation. The only way to counter the BR is to get close. But the BR is still powerful at that range. Three quick bursts then a melee put's the opposing player down. Even though the AR is meant for close range it often ends up "trading" with the BR. Because of this the only logical thing to do is get a more powerful weapon than the BR.

Your weapon choices are now Rocket, Sniper, Sword or Shotgun. People claim Rocket's are for noobs because anyone can kill with them and shotguns and swords are for noobs because of camping. The truth is that players turn to these weapons because the BR practically forces them to. Basically, if you are not good with a BR or sniper you are killed a lot or considered a noob.

Obviously, the BR is the root of all Halo's evil. I have shown you already that it promotes camping and "noob" weapons, but that's not all. When players are not good at the game what do they do? They dont care about winning and jut play for fun. How can you play for fun if a starting weapon dominates everything else? Just screw around. Drive off cliffs, speed around on a mongoose, try to get kills with a pistol, you name it. Any time someone is not trying to play Halo the "right" way, they are a by product of the BR. Any time you see someone killed repeatedly and hae an awful K/D ratio, think to yourself "What weapon was used to kill them so many times?" The BR is likely the answer.

So, the BR has reduced Halo to Brs, snipers, and "noobs." Is that a Halo we want to play? I dont think so. But what can fix this terrible world the BR has made? The answer seems obvious. The AR. It is the perfect starting weapon. It get's the job done without being the main weapon of the game. By scrapping both the BR and the MA5C (Our current Assault Rifle), then bringing back the MA5B (CE's Assault Rifle) Halo would be restored to it's former glory.

But we need a new mid-long range weapon, right? I mean, the BR did have a purpose. . .

Wrong. The BR's range was one of the main reasons it destroyed our beloved game. Another mid-long range weapon would likey also ruin it. To fill the gap left in all the "pro" players' hearts, we do need a new mid range balanced weapon. A new and improved pistol will do just fine.

Take the Halo 3 pistol and slightly improve it. "But that pistol is bad!" Not true. The weapon is good if you know how to use it. Get in range, aim for the head, and fire while strafing away from the enemy's fire. Sounds a lot like a BR right? The only difference is that the pistol did not ruin Halo. The only issue with the pistol is that it's magazine does not hold enough ammo for multiple kills. By increasing the pistols clip size and adding a 1.5X scope, we wouls have a great new mid ranged weapon.

With our MA5Bs and new pistols set to starting weapons, Halo would return to the once great game it was meant to be.


Possible solutions added.

Well, i've come up with a few different solutions. Im taking some ideas from this forum, some from others.

Battle Rifle this would be if we kept the BR, but altered it.
Stats
-Single wield.
-Semi auto.
-X2 Scope.
-4 shot kill.
-36 round magazine
Alterations
-Reduce Damage: Overpowering isn't the exact issue though. The issue is how often it's able to be overpowered.
-Reduce clip size: Battle Rifles last forever, and can get multiple kills before reloading. A 24 round magazine would only allow for 2 kills per reload.
-Increase spread at a a distance: This way, the Battle Rifle would be less powerful at distances, and still operate as it does at medium range.

The rest are for if we remove the BR altogether.

Spartan Combat Pistol (SCR)
Stats
-Single wield.
-semi auto.
-X1.5 scope (the scope is used more for precision then looking across the map.)
-6 headshot kill : 8 body shots.
-12 round magazine.

Scoped MA5C (SMA5C)
Stats
-Single wield.
-Full auto.
-X 1.5 or X2 Scope.
-Same damage and clip size as current Assault Rifle.
-More accurate when shot in bursts.
-When zoomed in, spay-cone becomes larger faster, making a less deadly long range weapon.

Combat Rifle (CR)
Stats
-Single wield.
-Semi auto
-X2 Scope.
-5 Heashot kill : 7-8 body shots.
-15 round magazine.
-Recoils when fired too fast.

Covenant Carbine I think this could use a few slight fixes
Stats
-X2 Scope.
-18 round clip
-6 headshot kill
Alterations
-Clip size reduced to 12
-Decrease accuracy at longer distances.

Weapon Sets.

Weapon set 1.
-BR (toned down version).
-Carbine (toned down version).
-No other changes.

Weapon set 2.
-SMA5B ~ Replaces AR
-SCP ~ Replaces M6G magnum.
-BR Removed.
-Carbine Removed.
-No other changes

Weapon set 3
-SCP ~ Replaces M6G magnum.
-Combat Rifle ~ Replaces Battle Rifle.
-Carbine (toned down version).
-No other changes.


Those all seem pretty reasonable to me. If anyone else has weapon set suggestions, feel free to post them.
Have you read the book Halo : The Fall of Reach and First Strike? The weapons in them should be the weapons in Halo Reach. You have a good point, but I would leave the current BR in it because the BR is in First Strike when the Spartans go to a cache of weapons.

[Edited on 07.22.2009 12:26 PM PDT]

  • 07.22.2009 12:25 PM PDT
Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach

Posted by: CrypticShadow51
Actually, It just sounds like your bad-mouthing the BR. I agree that some changes would have to be made, but it's still a great gun. Say Bungie took out the BR and had the AR, the game would be dull.
The BR has made the game dull already. No one never uses anything else except the Sniper rifle or rocket launcher. Hell, I barely see anybody picking up the sword or shotgun anymore.

  • 07.22.2009 12:26 PM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Posted by: The EAKLE
i just think the game could be better without it.
I agree. But, more about its functionality. A 3-bullet burst is horrible for a weapon that was always about precision. The M6D was a much more fun and skillful weapon to use. A single-shot BR or Magnum with as much or more range than the M6D would be much better.

  • 07.22.2009 12:38 PM PDT

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
$.50 in store credit.

Posted by: Jiggly Luv
Posted by: The EAKLE
i just think the game could be better without it.
I agree. But, more about its functionality. A 3-bullet burst is horrible for a weapon that was always about precision. The M6D was a much more fun and skillful weapon to use. A single-shot BR or Magnum with as much or more range than the M6D would be much better.
I really like my CR idea. Give the BR a single bulelt instead of the spread and tone down the mag size a bit.

  • 07.22.2009 12:44 PM PDT
Subject: Alter/Replace the BR in Halo: Reach Update-7/16/09 New weapons added

If there was no bungie there would be no fun.

Posted by: WhatThaSmurf
If Bungie were to stick with their own fiction (which I'm sure they will), this will not even be an issue. The BR did not exist in Halo: CE, therefore how could it possibly exist in a prequel? It wouldn't make any sense at all. "Oh, yeah, it is in the past, but it has weapons from the future..."

No, Bungie is much smarter than that.

And I'm sure someone will be like: "Well, in First Strike the Spartans that survived the Battle of Reach got BRs." And that is the point. The Spartans that made it through the Battle of Reach, the ones that the Master Chief helped rescue, didn't get the BR prototypes until after the story that Halo: Reach will tell, after the Pillar of Autumn arrived at the first Halo, after Reach had already been glassed and the battle lost.

So, for two reasons (other than the very accurate reasons given by the OP) the BR should not be in Reach.
1) It wasn't in Halo: CE.
2) It wasn't in use by the UNSC until after Reach according to the fiction.

If the BR is included in Reach, I will be extremely disappointed.



Yup i agree it wouldnt work with the story to incoporate the br. Althought in the reach book towards the end all the spartans still on reach that are with dr hasley get some brs because they are an early shipment. Well whatever ill be fine if its still there or not.

[Edited on 07.22.2009 1:06 PM PDT]

  • 07.22.2009 1:05 PM PDT

Of course I'm looking at it in a slightly close minded way. Aren't you? (Rhetorical, because you are.)

The BR is effective in many situations, but is never (with the arguable exception of Mid Range) the MOST effective at that given range. Lets make a slight list off the top of my "I just woke up" head. These will be the weapons which would beat a BR at the given range, assuming that the wielders are of equal skill:

Close Range - AR (for sure), SMG, Spiker, PR (switch to another weapon after shields dropped), PP (same deal as PR), needler, shotgun, sword, mauler, Rocket Launcher... (my, what an extensive list!)

Long Range - Sniper Rifle, Beam Rifle, Any vehicle with shooting capabilities, Laser, Turrets.

As is clear, the BR is NOT the most dominant in close range. If you are using an AR in a close range fight with a BR, and you lose, then you either handled the situation poorly, the BR user had the jump on you, or you are simply bad.

As for medium range, a sniper rifle in the hands of a competent sniper would trump a BR. In fact, if anything, the Sniper is an overpowered weapon (at least compared to the BR). Name one other weapon which has the capacity to kill in one shot at any range, and a successful hit will at the very least leave the enemy one-shot. Limited ammo and lengthy (not really) respawn times aside, a Sniper Rifle in the right hands is at the least a dominant weapon, and often a game changer. And a Sniper in said heads is a DEATH SENTENCE in an AR starts games, but CAN be countered in a BR game.

Your claim that "the BR [...] over powers other weapons, and it is just a starting weapon", is at the same time true and false. The BR has the potential to combat any other weapon, which is what makes the BR so versatile. At the same time, it never has a guaranteed win against any other weapon in that weapons 'sphere of maximum effectiveness'. I can't begin to count the number of times I've been mowed down by an AR at close-ish range, even while back pedalling, sidestrafing and shooting - I only get 3 BR bursts out before I'm ground down.

You also seem to be ignoring the skill component when talking about the BR. Unlike the AR, it takes some TALENT to be able to consistently get a good 4-5 shot kill on someone who is strafing, juking, and otherwise actually trying to live. The AR, no matter HOW you want to look at it, is a spray and pray gun. You can burst fire for increased accuracy, which will actually result in doing MORE damage than the BR. If I recall correctly, the AR does 7.2 damage/bullet, and the BR only does 6/bullet, some comparable numbers (if I find them, I'll amend the post, but it IS AR>BR). EDIT - Alright, found it. I'll cite the source links at the bottom. The AR does 7.5 damage/bullet, and the BR does 6/bullet, making it 18 per burst, which given the RoF of the BR vs the AR, makes the BR much weaker. Again, links to this and some other interesting information at the bottom. (end edit) Giving players a starting weapon which requires some degree of skill at all ranges DOES make the playing field lean more towards more skilled players, but isn't that the point of a game? May the best player win. You can still pick up your Spiker and beat the BR at close range though.

One reason to consider why the BR appears so widely used and other weapons so under used is simply because as with most FPS games, Halo is MidRangeCombat-centric. An AR starts promotes camping and close range combat, which in turn promotes greater frequency of melee battles, and even YOU must acknowledge the broken melee system (which your 'perfect' AR would only promote). Think of any popular map, or even your favorite map, and notice that while containing SOME close quarter and long ranged elements, that map is mainly based around mid-ranged combat. As someone before me in this thread mentioned, it is the nature of the game, not the Battle Rifle's jack-of-all triades master of none utilitarian nature, which you should have an issue with.

Sorry if that post is disjointed, unorganized and all over the place, as stated I just woke up. You should be able to understand the gist of it though.

Links:
http://halowiki.net/p/Weapon_damage
http://halowiki.net/p/Weapon_Time_to_Kill_Chart
http://halowiki.net/p/Weapon_Data_Gathering

[Edited on 07.22.2009 1:42 PM PDT]

  • 07.22.2009 1:34 PM PDT
Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach

Posted by: Xx Mr Bill xX
If it wasn't the BR it would be another weapon.

  • 07.22.2009 1:44 PM PDT
Subject: Alter/Replace the BR in Halo: Reach Update-7/16/09 New weapons added

liek omg u guyz...

omg ponies (ok ya it aint that bad imo)

GRRR IM RIGHT UR WRONG AND GHEY LOLOLOL UR GHEY

lova ya internet, never change :D

Something must be done, that is for sure. There shouldn't be useless weapons like the pistol, plasma pistol, plasma rifle, spiker, AR (needs bigger clip, seriously). Take out dual wielding and return those weapons to their Halo 1 form (pistol damage should be toned down somewhat though), you know, when they could actually kill something.

plasma pistol / rifle were awesome in H1 and now they suck so bad :(

[Edited on 07.22.2009 2:05 PM PDT]

  • 07.22.2009 2:03 PM PDT

Really nice post, completely agree with everything you've said.

  • 07.22.2009 2:33 PM PDT

Sorry but i'm going to have to disagree, and say No No No.

How do you suppose people play standoff with an assault rifle? Or better yet, avalanche with an assault rifle? It's boring, it's too slow paced.

Only reason MLG uses BRs is because it promotes fast paced games/action. Without the br, you'd have, yes, SPRAYING AR NOOBS. There's a reason MLG doesn't have the AR, or powerups like regen + power drainer. They make the game too slow and dragged out.

BR is good, and is perfectly fine the way it is. It's weaker than it was in halo 2, especially since you can't double shot or do other nifty tricks/glitches with it anymore. Spawning everyone with BRs makes it a perfectly fine game too.

I don't see what's to complain about the BR. There's nothing wrong with it. If anything, i'd love to take out the assault rifle because all some of you do is crouch and then spring forth and assault rifle like a scrub and beat down. It's a terrible gun, doesn't need any skill to use, and just overall sucks.

BR requires more skill than the AR. Plus it'd be so frigging boring watching people shoot at eachother with pistols in a MLG game.

Sorry, but i justh ave to disagree with a lot of what you say. Also making the BR a one shot gun will just make it like the carbine. What's the point?

edit:
And from what i can tell, one of the main reasons people don't like the BR is simply because they can't use it effectively. So honestly, instead of getting rid of a perfectly good gun, suck it up, get better, or don't play.

[Edited on 07.22.2009 3:45 PM PDT]

  • 07.22.2009 3:44 PM PDT

Veni, Vidi, Vici
I came, I saw, I conquered

Posted by: Oh My Malerick
Of course I'm looking at it in a slightly close minded way. Aren't you? (Rhetorical, because you are.)

The BR is effective in many situations, but is never (with the arguable exception of Mid Range) the MOST effective at that given range. Lets make a slight list off the top of my "I just woke up" head. These will be the weapons which would beat a BR at the given range, assuming that the wielders are of equal skill:

Close Range - AR (for sure), SMG, Spiker, PR (switch to another weapon after shields dropped), PP (same deal as PR), needler, shotgun, sword, mauler, Rocket Launcher... (my, what an extensive list!)

Long Range - Sniper Rifle, Beam Rifle, Any vehicle with shooting capabilities, Laser, Turrets.

As is clear, the BR is NOT the most dominant in close range. If you are using an AR in a close range fight with a BR, and you lose, then you either handled the situation poorly, the BR user had the jump on you, or you are simply bad.

As for medium range, a sniper rifle in the hands of a competent sniper would trump a BR. In fact, if anything, the Sniper is an overpowered weapon (at least compared to the BR). Name one other weapon which has the capacity to kill in one shot at any range, and a successful hit will at the very least leave the enemy one-shot. Limited ammo and lengthy (not really) respawn times aside, a Sniper Rifle in the right hands is at the least a dominant weapon, and often a game changer. And a Sniper in said heads is a DEATH SENTENCE in an AR starts games, but CAN be countered in a BR game.

Your claim that "the BR [...] over powers other weapons, and it is just a starting weapon", is at the same time true and false. The BR has the potential to combat any other weapon, which is what makes the BR so versatile. At the same time, it never has a guaranteed win against any other weapon in that weapons 'sphere of maximum effectiveness'. I can't begin to count the number of times I've been mowed down by an AR at close-ish range, even while back pedalling, sidestrafing and shooting - I only get 3 BR bursts out before I'm ground down.

You also seem to be ignoring the skill component when talking about the BR. Unlike the AR, it takes some TALENT to be able to consistently get a good 4-5 shot kill on someone who is strafing, juking, and otherwise actually trying to live. The AR, no matter HOW you want to look at it, is a spray and pray gun. You can burst fire for increased accuracy, which will actually result in doing MORE damage than the BR. If I recall correctly, the AR does 7.2 damage/bullet, and the BR only does 6/bullet, some comparable numbers (if I find them, I'll amend the post, but it IS AR>BR). EDIT - Alright, found it. I'll cite the source links at the bottom. The AR does 7.5 damage/bullet, and the BR does 6/bullet, making it 18 per burst, which given the RoF of the BR vs the AR, makes the BR much weaker. Again, links to this and some other interesting information at the bottom. (end edit) Giving players a starting weapon which requires some degree of skill at all ranges DOES make the playing field lean more towards more skilled players, but isn't that the point of a game? May the best player win. You can still pick up your Spiker and beat the BR at close range though.

One reason to consider why the BR appears so widely used and other weapons so under used is simply because as with most FPS games, Halo is MidRangeCombat-centric. An AR starts promotes camping and close range combat, which in turn promotes greater frequency of melee battles, and even YOU must acknowledge the broken melee system (which your 'perfect' AR would only promote). Think of any popular map, or even your favorite map, and notice that while containing SOME close quarter and long ranged elements, that map is mainly based around mid-ranged combat. As someone before me in this thread mentioned, it is the nature of the game, not the Battle Rifle's jack-of-all triades master of none utilitarian nature, which you should have an issue with.

Sorry if that post is disjointed, unorganized and all over the place, as stated I just woke up. You should be able to understand the gist of it though.

Links:
http://halowiki.net/p/Weapon_damage
http://halowiki.net/p/Weapon_Time_to_Kill_Chart
http://halowiki.net/p/Weapon_Data_Gathering


This guy has the common sense you guys have been looking for for oh so long.

  • 07.22.2009 5:51 PM PDT

.

[Edited on 07.22.2009 7:25 PM PDT]

  • 07.22.2009 7:22 PM PDT