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  • Subject: Alter/Replace the BR in Halo: Reach Update-7/16/09 New weapons added
Subject: Alter/Replace the BR in Halo: Reach Update-7/16/09 New weapons added

Posted by: Chief Jaden
Im starting to believe that it is just the way this game is developed that makes everything seem unbalanced, not neccissarily the way the weapons work.
Most maps allow people to stay within medium range of the other team. It doesnt force them into close range except on a few maps.

Since melee is broken in this game, close quarters combat isnt preferred since over 50% of the time, melee battles will end in a tie. So what do people do? They stick with the BR because there is skill involved determining who wins the battle instead of chance like with melee.

Honestly, I stick with the BR in most games too because I know i can beat less skilled players with it. When I run into a group of enemies with an AR, I may have better aim, better manuevering, and smarter use of grenades but there is still chance, not skill, that I will end up dying because of the broken melee system. With BR battles, Im ensured that if I die, it is because the other player was more skillful than me.

Bungie just needs to revamp close quarters battles and go back to Halo 2 melee or Halo CE. With all the "sword lunging" with melee and the fact that even if you hit first you may not live, people are staying away from close range battles because there is less skill and more chance. Even if the better player acts

I say that two things need to happen. Duals by themselves should by much more accurate and function almost effectively as the AR while serving a different purpose. I have thoroughly tested it and a lone SMG is not as effective as an AR in close quarters. The only advantage that it has is that it can kill two people in one clip while the AR can only kill one. (speaking as if both enemies are not hurt by any other factor)

And the second thing deals with melee. Either melee damage should be toned down so you have to shoot someone more before you can beat them down (that is one of the reasons why melee battles are so unguaranteed) or take of the lunging and make it so you have to be absolute point blank with someone in order to melee. This would allow a greater skill gap because you would have to melee at the exact right moment first.

With the current melee system, the beat down range is so huge that when one person may lunge at the other, the other person will have enough time to lunge back, those both of them hitting each other at the same time.

Melee needs to be precise and ties should occur very rarely. If the better player strikes first, he should win. And it shouldnt be about who has better connection either.

If we take out the lunging, people might actually just focus on shooting each other more than the "shoot a few bullets, melee, and then tie and die). Melee should only come in when you run around the corner and collide with someone or you are flanking someone. This game should try to steer clear of the whole scenario of two people running straight at each shooting and then the battle ending with a melee.

If skill is brought back into the close quarters combat (im not talking about spray n pray or how there is no headshots) then people might starting relying on it more instead of taking a BR into their hands to ensure that they will only win or lose based on skill aka who lands more shots on the other. (skill)

This is just an idea but I believe that the AR should have a scope funtion. However, the only way to aim any more accurately with the scope is to single shot it or burst fire it. Those kinds of shots should give it just as much range as the BR....minus the power. The AR still will probably get taken out by a BR if both players are equally skilled (since the AR has less power) but at least an AR user has a chance, especially if he takes an enemy by suprise and wont be completely helpless as longer ranges...just less effective.


Hey an actual post I agree with. More people should post like you.

Everything thing you wrote is what I've thought since Halo 3, even before they implemented the "double beat-down" which is a much worse system than they had before. If I shoot a guy with more AR bullets and beat him down I should win, why, because I was the more accurate shot, I avoided his shots and made sure before I meleed that I was guaranteed a win, now it's tie after tie, unless your Host, and that doesn't -blam!- anything up does it.

[Edited on 07.22.2009 7:25 PM PDT]

  • 07.22.2009 7:24 PM PDT
Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach

I guess you cant understand the nuance of halo's BR, wthout the br the snipe would simply overpower other weapons on the map with out a legitiimant mid range contender and you're beloved ar would still stand no chance being taken out at range just as it does now.

Secondly before you post do your reasearch, the starting weapon for MLG in Halo CE was the M6D magnum sidearm NOT the AR voiding the CE arguement right there. Also try to understand counterpicking weapons, back with CE the plasma rifle was able to dismantle AR players by slowing down the movement speed and turning radius of those being hit by it.

Lets now move on to the AR. To understand why the AR is what it is, you would have to understand the weapon it was modeled after and I would say the weapon that most closely fits its dirscription would be the AK-47. The AK-47 altough is a rifle is highly in accurate and s mostly used(effectively) in covering and suppressive fire and is not intened to engage targets at long range, So I find it perfectly understandable that a weapon based of the AK-47 would be out done by a weapon that shares similarities with more modern rifles such as the G36C that have much more stopping power, accuracy and finese than it's Forrunners.

The AR for one was never really a candidate to be the dominant weapon in H3 or Halo CE for that matter it's spread is to great and it actively tosses the notion of teamwork to the wind. Lets look at it this way in an AR battle there are really only 2 factors 1 who fires first and 2 who lands the melee attack first.

If you would care to have a more refined discourse on this matter heres my tag: Clutch Artist(please find some time to add me to your friends list to discuss this and dont blow me off because you're afraid that you might have an intelligent conversation(send message with friend request))

  • 07.22.2009 7:32 PM PDT
Subject: Alter/Replace the BR in Halo: Reach Update-7/16/09 New weapons added

Cashmoney121

The BR is the greatest weapon hands down compared to any weapon in any game. I bet you get mad at the BR because you can't use one and many people can't get the minimum 4 shots to kill. It's a fair weapon since many Halo 3 maps are small. Don't make a long thread on what you THINK should be changed when it's perfect the way it is.

  • 07.22.2009 7:33 PM PDT

Forrest

Someones got alot of time on their hands... But good idea

  • 07.22.2009 7:39 PM PDT
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i disagree the only reason your posting this and im sorry to say this but your bad the ar is used for close range and will beat a br close range learn how to use a br and play some mlg or go back to halo 1 if you love it so much

  • 07.23.2009 3:01 AM PDT

I am Valkyrie incarnate.
Protect, serve. Guard, disable.
Intuition is my law.
Honor is my blade.
Trust is my shield.

lolwow. This thread is embarrassing me.

All you people out there who use the BR every chance you get and score 4 headshot kills thanks to tracking and apparent 'skill'- this one is directed at you guys.
I am an honorable Valkyrie and will let you all in on a little secret:

The AR does not consistently defeat the BR at mid to short range. You must be within twenty meters of the BR wielder and the wielder him or herself must back away as you unload a clip into them before closing the distance and meleeing, and even then it is possible for them to kill you simply because you can't strafe out of their way. It takes much more skill to run up on a BR wielder with an AR and win than to win with the BR from the same position because, believe it or not, the BR is an easier weapon to use.

If you keep the little crosshair on your opponent and fire one burst per point five seconds, in two seconds your opponent is dead. Four shots. Two seconds. This is true for any but extreme ranges. Most maps are small enough that the BRs remain effective and yet big enough that the ARs are outclassed in almost every scenario.

To top it off, different people are effective in different areas. I am a close-quarters and plasma pistol specialist. I employ a mixture of evasive, stealth, and flat out charging to take down my foes as quickly as I can. I view the BR with personal distaste bordering on loathing simply because it is far too effective and far too easy to master. It is a simple matter of who sees who first and starts shooting, with little variation. You must use some sort of hiding tactic when faced with a pair of BR wielders, because it would only take one second- two bursts per point five seconds with each hitting you directly on the head every time- for them to destroy you. In addition to this, there is the team to factor in.

There is something wrong when, by sheer chance, you charge over the hill at the wrong moment and the enemy team can pick you to pieces by focusing fire. You have no chance to react and you are destroyed mercilessly. Even if you employ stealth and get close enough, there's only a fifty percent chance that you'll kill even one of them- no matter how short the range is- before you go down. The BR is simply too darn efficacious to be considered a fair weapon. I often use the BR, but if I do it's because I'm forced. One of the first things I tend to do in BR matches is switch to the AR. I detest the cheap kills you can rack up with a couple headshots. Still I tend to make positive or neutral KD spreads with my AR and close-ranged weapons.

I have to agree with the OP, however much flame I might receive for it. There are too many factors that point to the BR being overpowered.

And in answer to
Posted by: Cashmoney121
The BR is the greatest weapon hands down compared to any weapon in any game. I bet you get mad at the BR because you can't use one and many people can't get the minimum 4 shots to kill. It's a fair weapon since many Halo 3 maps are small. Don't make a long thread on what you THINK should be changed when it's perfect the way it is.


....What? No matter HOW small the map is, I've been efficiently HSed on maps the size of, say, Epitaph or Cold Storage. It's effective at any range. The AR is simply not a counter for it, and it's too easy to use in comparison with the others. Point, headshot four times, turn, repeat. Skillwise, too, it's much easier for people to learn how to use because there are playlists dedicated to it. If we're making playlists dedicated to SWAT and such, why not have playlists with the other weapons as their hallmark?

Oh, right. No one uses them. Silly me.

Balance issues, people.

  • 07.23.2009 7:26 PM PDT

O hai

Posted by: Darathem

The AR does not consistently defeat the BR at mid to short range. You must be within twenty meters of the BR wielder and the wielder him or herself must back away as you unload a clip into them before closing the distance and meleeing, and even then it is possible for them to kill you simply because you can't strafe out of their way. It takes much more skill to run up on a BR wielder with an AR and win than to win with the BR from the same position because, believe it or not, the BR is an easier weapon to use.

You must be doing something wrong then. An AR will kill a BR in close range. 20 Feet is close range. Spraying bullets at a guy with a BR is not always the most tactically advantageous move. Try strafing, or an overpowrered melee. No chance for the BR.

If you keep the little crosshair on your opponent and fire one burst per point five seconds, in two seconds your opponent is dead. Four shots. Two seconds. This is true for any but extreme ranges. Most maps are small enough that the BRs remain effective and yet big enough that the ARs are outclassed in almost every scenario.

Most maps are small??? Isolation, Sandbox, Valhalla, Pit, Snowbound, Sandtrap, Avalanche, Narrows, Foundry, etc. These aren't really small. I can't even shoot accross guardian with a BR, as S2 to G2 is out of it's range.

To top it off, different people are effective in different areas. I am a close-quarters and plasma pistol specialist. I employ a mixture of evasive, stealth, and flat out charging to take down my foes as quickly as I can. I view the BR with personal distaste bordering on loathing simply because it is far too effective and far too easy to master. It is a simple matter of who sees who first and starts shooting, with little variation. You must use some sort of hiding tactic when faced with a pair of BR wielders, because it would only take one second- two bursts per point five seconds with each hitting you directly on the head every time- for them to destroy you. In addition to this, there is the team to factor in.

Sounds like someone doesn't want to adapt to a situation. If there's 2 people shooting you, no matter what non-power weapon you have, you will die. If they have 2 AR's, guess what? same black screen. Simple matter of who sees who first? TRY STRAFING. That's the whole concept behind it. strafe to throw people off when they have the first shot. Run around a corner and ninja them, 'Nade them, use various tactics. That's what the BR is great at:inspiring different moves and tactics in the game.

There is something wrong when, by sheer chance, you charge over the hill at the wrong moment and the enemy team can pick you to pieces by focusing fire. You have no chance to react and you are destroyed mercilessly. Even if you employ stealth and get close enough, there's only a fifty percent chance that you'll kill even one of them- no matter how short the range is- before you go down. The BR is simply too darn efficacious to be considered a fair weapon. I often use the BR, but if I do it's because I'm forced. One of the first things I tend to do in BR matches is switch to the AR. I detest the cheap kills you can rack up with a couple headshots. Still I tend to make positive or neutral KD spreads with my AR and close-ranged weapons.

So you charge over the hill directly at a team of BR's and expect to not get killed? Seriously? This stealth you speak of, does it involve maulers and crouch-walking? That's not stealth, it's camping. The BR is efficient because it is a utility weapon. It won't beat specialized weapons in their specialized areas, but it's a decent weapon to use in all ranges of combat.

I have to agree with the OP, however much flame I might receive for it. There are too many factors that point to the BR being overpowered.

And in answer to
Posted by: Cashmoney121
The BR is the greatest weapon hands down compared to any weapon in any game. I bet you get mad at the BR because you can't use one and many people can't get the minimum 4 shots to kill. It's a fair weapon since many Halo 3 maps are small. Don't make a long thread on what you THINK should be changed when it's perfect the way it is.


....What? No matter HOW small the map is, I've been efficiently HSed on maps the size of, say, Epitaph or Cold Storage. It's effective at any range. The AR is simply not a counter for it, and it's too easy to use in comparison with the others. Point, headshot four times, turn, repeat. Skillwise, too, it's much easier for people to learn how to use because there are playlists dedicated to it. If we're making playlists dedicated to SWAT and such, why not have playlists with the other weapons as their hallmark?

Seems like you aren't putting yourself in a tactically advantageous position, and you get decimated by team shots and 4 shots.(Which by the way are near impossible over XBL, try a 5 shot) Playlists are not dedicated to BR's. You want to play SWAT with an AR? Wow. Rat's Nest with an AR? Go ahead. Avalanche with an AR? Better set the score limit to 25. Team Objective was mainly an AR start playlist, and what happened? Ohhhhhh ya, it was retired 'cause nobody wanted to use an AR. I can't imagine how the turnout would be in a Team Duals playlist... It seems like it get's vetoed enough in Social Slayer...



[Edited on 07.23.2009 8:30 PM PDT]

  • 07.23.2009 8:28 PM PDT

@Darathem - sorry to break it to you, but your post is a combination of heavy bias, some wrong facts, and a clear lack of understanding about Halo 3 gameplay.

There is absolutely no way that a BR is 'easier to use' than an AR. A precision, burst fire weapon which requires consistent target tracking is simply not 'easier' to use than an automatic, spray-n-pray weapon. As a general guideline, you can use the size of the reticule to determine the skill required to effectively use a weapon - the larger the reticule, the less skill required. Sniper = tiny, AR = large, Shotgun = larger still. Like I said, a loose guideline, but in the Halo world at least it's generally applicable.

Now, let's consider the weapon damage. AR's do 7.5 damage per bullet. This means 15.333 (effectively 16 on a fully shielded enemy) bullets to kill, and that exactly 6 bullets followed by a beatdown (which does 70 points of damage), will also equal a kill. Given the fact that an AR shoots 11 bullets/second, you're looking at just over 0.5 seconds + beatdown. The BR, on the other hand requires 3 bursts (actually 7 bullets to be precise) + a beatdown (default settings, MLG not applicable since the AR is thankfully absent in MLG), with a shooting rate of 0.5 bursts/second, meaning that the kill rate of a BR at beatdown range is 1.5 seconds + a beatdown. 1 second longer than the AR. [1] [2]

Now, to break away from immediate-beatdown range, lets consider slightly longer (I'm thinking about the distance from O3 to C3 across lobby on Construct, for example, about Radar-radius?). An AR has an obvious bullet spread, which increases over time-firing in a cone-like fashion. Smart AR users fire in controlled bursts at that range. If you're not a smart player, you have NO right to judge any weapon as over/underpowered, since you don't know what you're talking about, since you just aren't smart. The AR has an average killing rate of 1.9 seconds at 11 meters (well out of beatdown, about the radius of the radar), while the BR has a kill time of 2.3 seconds at 11m. SLOWER.source

Other factors to consider - bullet spread of the BR, which is random. Every bullet that misses due to random-cone-spread means another than must hit. On default damage, one SINGLE bullet missed means that one WHOLE burst extra must be fired, as it is a 12 bullet kill. On XBL, a 4 shot in default is a RARITY, even to the most highly skilled players, due to bullet refund, shot registration, and general dodgy connection issues. One whole burst is another half second for your AR user to mow down the BR.

In regards to your whining about getting picked off by an entire team, this simply highlights your lack of knowledge of how to play the game. In Halo 2, one player could run around in control of the entire game, BxRing and Double Shotting and Sword whoring his way through the opposition. Halo 3, however, takes place under a much more TEAM oriented playstyle. If you get yourself in a position where you are faced with "a pair of BR users" there is something wrong, as you said - it's you. Instead of crying about the BR, consider the fact that your poor awareness and positioning caused you to move into a spot which allowed you to get teamshot. If you get double teamed, it's either your fault for being terrible or a very good example of the other team's teamwork.

You claim to be a close range player who's a plasma pistol specialist - in this case you shouldn't be placing yourself in a position where you must worry about getting shot at out in the open. And if you have an AR and lose to a BR in close range, then you're not much of a specialist.

Since you claim that the BR is "far too easy to master", I'd be interested to compare your obvious mastery of the weapon (you must have mastered it, since it's so easy), with my proficiency. This is not a challenge in the sense of "Oh you're terrible come get wrecked", but I'm just curious to see what you actually consider your mastery of the weapon to be.

In summary - your opinion, in that you don't like the BR, find it abhorrent, and feel it is overpowered, is valid, and entirely equal to my (and others') opposing opinions. However, any opinion which ignores reality is NOT equal to any other. Your claims about the BR's easy of use are simply untrue (ask anyone at the medium levels of MLG, it's a constant question of "how can I improve my BR"), and your comparison of the BR's CQ efficiency to that of the AR's completely ignores the mathematical statistics of both weapons. While I have no choice but to accept the fact that you dislike the BR and are welcome to do so, you are simply wrong about some of your claims.

  • 07.23.2009 11:48 PM PDT

I am of an open mind and I am willing to hear criticism. Also: That's stupid and you're stupid.

Make it shoot single shot weakened bursts when scoped and it will be fine, IMO.

EDIT: When scoped, it could probably take 6-7 head shots to kill someone.

[Edited on 07.24.2009 12:14 AM PDT]

  • 07.24.2009 12:07 AM PDT
Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach

Halo CE=Chess
Halo 2=Backgammon
Halo 3=Checkers
Halo Reach=Rock-Paper-Scissors

Posted by: cB4d93
Very well thought out arguements and I agree 100%. Get rid of this all-purpose gun. When an all-purpose gun is added to a game, it breaks the balance and makes all weapons designed for specific tasks useless. the Launcher, Splaser, and sniper, are the only other weapons that I see being picked up in a BR starts game. They already got rid of the BR in ODST, lets take it to Reach now.


well i mean obviously you are going to for the more powerful weapons. It makes sense. If you are going against a team of four and you can pick up the spiker or the rockets what are you going to chose? The rockets obviously. I mean what, do you want all the weapons to be like you are firing milkduds at each other? Come on, the only weapon which i find even slightly annoying is the Ar. People whip it out in team br's and the point of team br's is somehow annihilated.

And yes the Br is all purpose but it takes quite a while to perfect the Br. I mean you need to learn how to aim well, lead with your shots. Really the Br of halo 3, is better then the Br of halo2, because now that you have to lead with your shots you can kill people across coagulation like in halo 2.

Really, if you feel the need to change the Br, then its not the fault of the game but rather you the user who does not know how to properly utilise it.

  • 07.25.2009 7:51 AM PDT
Subject: Alter/Replace the BR in Halo: Reach Update-7/16/09 New weapons added

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
$.50 in store credit.

How did this thread get back up? I was letting it die. . .



Posted by: xXDarkCrimsonXx
Make it shoot single shot weakened bursts when scoped and it will be fine, IMO.

EDIT: When scoped, it could probably take 6-7 head shots to kill someone.
I think that would be too weak. With the BR's current rate of fire, that would take too long.

  • 07.25.2009 8:16 AM PDT

So your saying that we should improve a weapon from Halo 3 in a game that is set in before Halo 1? Doesn't sound right.

  • 07.25.2009 8:25 AM PDT
Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach

im pretty sure.

but in the books the assault rifles and other weapons are always modded out, and the rifle can be switched from short bursts to full spray. and from regular to shredder rounds. and the the sniper scope was changed to a more high def one. by kelley in the- all this in the books)
the significance of me saying this is that if they are to make weapons for the spartans it should be in the SPARTANS favor. And it will better characterize them and their tastefull modded selections lol.

SP-G66 out..

  • 07.25.2009 8:25 AM PDT
Subject: Alter/Replace the BR in Halo: Reach Update-7/16/09 New weapons added

Voilà!In view,a humble vaudevillian veteran,cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of Fate.This visage, no mere veneer of vanity,is a vestige of the vox populi,now vacant, vanished.However,this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation,stands vivified and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin van-guarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition.

Posted by: xXDarkCrimsonXx
Make it shoot single shot weakened bursts when scoped and it will be fine, IMO.

EDIT: When scoped, it could probably take 6-7 head shots to kill someone.


Single shot weaken burst thats like an oxy moron I think you mean semi automactic single shot.

Posted by: The EAKLE
How did this thread get back up? I was letting it die. . .



Posted by: xXDarkCrimsonXx
Make it shoot single shot weakened bursts when scoped and it will be fine, IMO.

EDIT: When scoped, it could probably take 6-7 head shots to kill someone.
I think that would be too weak. With the BR's current rate of fire, that would take too long.


the beast has become self aware, it won't die!

[Edited on 07.25.2009 8:53 AM PDT]

  • 07.25.2009 8:51 AM PDT
Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach

i really hope bungie looks at this aswell

  • 07.25.2009 9:15 AM PDT
Subject: Alter/Replace the BR in Halo: Reach Update-7/16/09 New weapons added

There are many things i agree with here and many things i learned here aswell. The BR isnt an easy weapon to master, and whether you have mastered it or not is your opinion. One thing i want you to consider is clip size, and im not saying you were wrong about anything, im just saying, without melee, how many people can u kill with the AR at most possible? 1 at most possible only using the gun, not grenades, other weapons, or melee and not reloading. With the BR you can kill 3 at most possible only using the gun, not grenades, other weapons, or melee and not reloading.

  • 07.25.2009 9:33 AM PDT
Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach

Perhaps a toned down version of the ODST SMG?

  • 07.25.2009 9:54 AM PDT
Subject: Alter/Replace the BR in Halo: Reach Update-7/16/09 New weapons added
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i agree with you, they should replace the br with the cr, great idea =)

  • 07.25.2009 10:15 AM PDT

Boys are bad!

Posted by: The EAKLE
Posted by: LTFUZZUMS
Why would you even suggest this? Do you realize how much this would destroy in a Multi-million dollar industry which millions watch these competitions. I know you said the BR is seen as a "Pro" gun. Yes for some it is but for others like myself its just a gun that actually shows some skill. 1v1 me scrub and I'll show you that you probably can't aim and your horrible with the BR. Don't blame the BR for you not having a 40 yet.
It amazes me that people like you somehow obtain "Honorable" status when all you can do is insult a players skill. If you even began to read my OP, you would know that this is not about skill and that i dont blame the BR for anything. I dont care that my highest skill is a 35. I have better things to do than play a game all day and try to get a 40.

Next time, read and understand the OP before replying.


Its funny because I'm pretty sure I did read your first post. I know you said it has nothing to do with your skill or anything but thats just the thing. Nobody would make a thread like this unless they were afraid of the BR I do understand maybe saying oh hey do you think the BR will be in reach or not but you went and had to put all the MLG stuff down and all the specifics about the BR almost saying its an unfair gun. I can see where you are coming from but still we'll have to wait and see no use in making threads asking for the BR to be gone.

  • 07.26.2009 10:21 AM PDT

Br is an easy weapon to use. Allmost too easy! The biggest reason i've found that people lose these "BR Fights" is lag! Not skill, LAG!
I dont know is Br an "power" weapon or a "normal" weapon.
Ability to kill at pretty long ranges + headshot capability and you can kill 2 enemys with one clip is pretty powerfull.
It's like when the Assault rifle were introduced to the battlefield in WW2!
If you make somewhat realistic WW2 game (No Cod it has never even saw realism)
and put StG-44 to it people probably immediately start to call it a noob gun or it doesnt fit in the game because its a "mid range" weapon. You can use it at short to long range and when
people learns how to use it, it could be used at short to very long ranges. ( Like the BR)
Then remove the headshot capabilities from short range weapons the StG would start to feel like BR!

  • 07.26.2009 11:16 AM PDT

Sgt A.J Johnson=Grunts>Spartans>Elites>Hunters>

br>rocket=overpowerd

  • 07.26.2009 11:18 AM PDT

"stay in school. you'll love yourself more for it."

Posted by: The EAKLE
This is not about how good or bad i am at the game, or which gun i prefer. This is for discussing if the BR should be toned down and how, or if it should be removed and what should replace it.

Read the entire OP and all of the replies if you want to post something. If i get asked more questions that were already asked multiple times, i will probably just ignore them.

When i say teh BR is effective at close range, i do not mean very close. I mean right outside the AR's range, in about the pistol's range.



BRs are a major flaw in Halo 3's design. It is a starting weapon that literally anyone can kill with from pretty far distances. Because of it's range and accuracy, it makes all dual wieldable weapons and ARs almost entirely useless. Because it out ranges power weapons like swords and shotguns, the only effective way to use them is camp. Thus, the BR promotes camping.

People claim that the BR is a needed weapon. That is flat out wrong. Halo: Combat Evolved was a fantastic game and it had no BR. It is often said that flag games become annoying with ARs because you cant kill the carrier from a distance, but none of these claims were made in Halo Combat Evolved because we didnt know of an unbalanced starting weapon, besides the pistol. We did just fine with our ARs up until Halo 2.

While CE's M6D was also a mid ranged headshot based weapon, it was used entirely different. It was not a starting weapon in standard slayer, and they were not placed around every corner as the BR now is. In standard slayer the M6D played more like a power weapon then a starting weapon.

In Halo 2, the AR was removed for the SMG, and the Battle Rifle was added. Because the SMGs were dual wieldable and functioned different from an AR, it seemed to be an entire different weapon instead of a new Assault Rifle. With the AR out of the way the BR had a chance at being the new main weapon. It did a decent job because we could not see it's devastating onslaught of other weapons compared to the AR functioning well with them.

With Halo 2 came BR's introduction to MLG. Without the Assault Rifle, the only main weapon to have was the BR, so it became MLG's main weapon. Halo 2 quickly became incredibly popular, and the BR came with it.

Now in Halo 3 MLG has a giant fanbase, and many believe the BR to be the "PRO" weapon over the Asault Rifle, when the truth is the AR never had a chance to shine. The AR returned from Halo CE, but with less ammo. The BR came back with a slight spread. The now weakened AR was slaughtered by the BR in almost every battle, leading people to believe that the AR was bad, instead of the truth that the BR is greatly overpowered. The BR is a favorite of many players because they live under the stereotype that it means they are "good" or "pro", when really it is an easy way to rack up kills.

From looking at nearly anyone's service record you can see the BR as the Tool of Destruction. Why is this? Because if anyone comes up with a close range weapon they are killed before they get the chance to fight. Everyone get's kills with the Battle Rifle because they can. Some great AR user can try to attack, but will get mowed down by a BR "noob" in almost any situation. The only way to counter the BR is to get close. But the BR is still powerful at that range. Three quick bursts then a melee put's the opposing player down. Even though the AR is meant for close range it often ends up "trading" with the BR. Because of this the only logical thing to do is get a more powerful weapon than the BR.

Your weapon choices are now Rocket, Sniper, Sword or Shotgun. People claim Rocket's are for noobs because anyone can kill with them and shotguns and swords are for noobs because of camping. The truth is that players turn to these weapons because the BR practically forces them to. Basically, if you are not good with a BR or sniper you are killed a lot or considered a noob.

Obviously, the BR is the root of all Halo's evil. I have shown you already that it promotes camping and "noob" weapons, but that's not all. When players are not good at the game what do they do? They dont care about winning and jut play for fun. How can you play for fun if a starting weapon dominates everything else? Just screw around. Drive off cliffs, speed around on a mongoose, try to get kills with a pistol, you name it. Any time someone is not trying to play Halo the "right" way, they are a by product of the BR. Any time you see someone killed repeatedly and hae an awful K/D ratio, think to yourself "What weapon was used to kill them so many times?" The BR is likely the answer.

So, the BR has reduced Halo to Brs, snipers, and "noobs." Is that a Halo we want to play? I dont think so. But what can fix this terrible world the BR has made? The answer seems obvious. The AR. It is the perfect starting weapon. It get's the job done without being the main weapon of the game. By scrapping both the BR and the MA5C (Our current Assault Rifle), then bringing back the MA5B (CE's Assault Rifle) Halo would be restored to it's former glory.

But we need a new mid-long range weapon, right? I mean, the BR did have a purpose. . .

Wrong. The BR's range was one of the main reasons it destroyed our beloved game. Another mid-long range weapon would likey also ruin it. To fill the gap left in all the "pro" players' hearts, we do need a new mid range balanced weapon. A new and improved pistol will do just fine.

Take the Halo 3 pistol and slightly improve it. "But that pistol is bad!" Not true. The weapon is good if you know how to use it. Get in range, aim for the head, and fire while strafing away from the enemy's fire. Sounds a lot like a BR right? The only difference is that the pistol did not ruin Halo. The only issue with the pistol is that it's magazine does not hold enough ammo for multiple kills. By increasing the pistols clip size and adding a 1.5X scope, we wouls have a great new mid ranged weapon.

With our MA5Bs and new pistols set to starting weapons, Halo would return to the once great game it was meant to be.


Possible solutions added.

Well, i've come up with a few different solutions. Im taking some ideas from this forum, some from others.

Battle Rifle this would be if we kept the BR, but altered it.
Stats
-Single wield.
-Semi auto.
-X2 Scope.
-4 shot kill.
-36 round magazine
Alterations
-Reduce Damage: Overpowering isn't the exact issue though. The issue is how often it's able to be overpowered.
-Reduce clip size: Battle Rifles last forever, and can get multiple kills before reloading. A 24 round magazine would only allow for 2 kills per reload.
-Increase spread at a a distance: This way, the Battle Rifle would be less powerful at distances, and still operate as it does at medium range.

The rest are for if we remove the BR altogether.

Spartan Combat Pistol (SCR)
Stats
-Single wield.
-semi auto.
-X1.5 scope (the scope is used more for precision then looking across the map.)
-6 headshot kill : 8 body shots.
-12 round magazine.

Scoped MA5C (SMA5C)
Stats
-Single wield.
-Full auto.
-X 1.5 or X2 Scope.
-Same damage and clip size as current Assault Rifle.
-More accurate when shot in bursts.
-When zoomed in, spay-cone becomes larger faster, making a less deadly long range weapon.

Combat Rifle (CR)
Stats
-Single wield.
-Semi auto
-X2 Scope.
-5 Heashot kill : 7-8 body shots.
-10 round magazine.
-Recoils when fired too fast.

Covenant Carbine I think this could use a few slight fixes
Stats
-X2 Scope.
-18 round clip
-6 headshot kill
Alterations
-Clip size reduced to 12
-Decrease accuracy at longer distances.

Weapon Sets.

Weapon set 1.
-BR (toned down version).
-Carbine (toned down version).
-No other changes.

Weapon set 2.
-SMA5B ~ Replaces AR
-SCP ~ Replaces M6G magnum.
-BR Removed.
-Carbine Removed.
-No other changes

Weapon set 3
-SCP ~ Replaces M6G magnum.
-Combat Rifle ~ Replaces Battle Rifle.
-Carbine (toned down version).
-No other changes.


Those all seem pretty reasonable to me. If anyone else has weapon set suggestions, feel free to post them.


you say the br is overpowered yet in halo ce nuclear nades and a 3 shot pistol > halo 2 br. also the halo 3 br has TERRIBLE spread, the spread is so bad ONLY host can come close to touching someone long range in halo 3. i say bring back the halo 2 BR. it worked and actually balanced the halo 2 sniper and you couldnt be a noob and pick it up and either bs or raype someone unlike the halo 3 br which barely any of your shots registered.

  • 07.28.2009 5:03 PM PDT

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Burst fire weapons need to die.



























'nuff said.

  • 07.29.2009 3:37 AM PDT

Im pretty handy with those assassinations.

I had an idea of a BR alteration. Its called the BR 65. A semi automatic rifle that fires a.308 caliber round. No scope, or if one, a red dot scope mounted on the sight rail. This would be a single shot rifle-no burst fire. Same magazine size. I thought it'd work out great to replace the BR and AR as far as a short to mid range weapon.

  • 07.29.2009 7:15 AM PDT