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  • Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach
Subject: Remove the BR from Halo: Reach

Hello, Instinct here. I am leader of a group called ''The Forge Program''. It is dedicated to those forgers who want to get recognized. Join if you like; it's open for all.

Posted by: Brand New Keys
Some of this is true but not all lets say the BR got weaker with a greater spread how would you take out power weapons such as rockets snipers with a AR? If ARs are for close combat go ahead and rush a rocket user yeah that will really work right? Dont rely on the BR it would be to weak the rocket will blow you up before the sheilds were at 25%. Or try to beat the sniper with a AR from across the map yep thats a pro idea! BR spread couldent make it that far. The BR is here for a reason to take out power weapons and to win from a distance. It is possible to master any weapon so of course if you played longer a BR will be good at close range too.
I agree with you.

The BR is made to kill the opponents when they have control of the map. Like you said, if they have sniper, rockets and shotgun, what would you do with an AR? If you shot from far range they're gonna kill you with the sniper, if you shot from mid range they're gonna kill you with rockets, and if you rush and shot them from close range they're gonna kill you with shotgun. Now if we use this sample with BR, if you shot from far range with the BR to the sniper you will have a much better chance of killing him than he does, if you shot from mid range, the BR is not so powerful to kill the rocket, but if you're good, it is possible to take down the rockets, if you shot them up close... well, if its close range, you have a BR and they have a shotgun then it'll be the same that with the AR, but you can take the shotgun from mid range and he'll have no chance, un like with the AR, you have to kill him from close range and you'll have no chance.

The BR is made for you to kill the people that have control of the map, and the BR has much more uses than that. But Halo without the BRs will be completely different. The fact that some people are not good and doesn't get better, doesn't mean you have to get the BR off the game. Infact, the BR and the sniper are what made Halo so famous and a good game cause you need skills to use them. And the fact that you have to use your BR skills and you teamwork, to take down the opponents with more powerful weapons, is what made Halo 3 be so famous in MLG, and considered one of the games with more skills needed in the world. If you take the BR out and put a magnum that you have tohave more accurasy and will be harder to kill the most powerful weapons, or the ''team in control of the map''. You'll have a close range sniper riffle.

Why don't you suggest a better idea on someone opening up a group to help people get better with their BR skills and teamwork skills cause you're not gonna do nothing having good BR skills but not good teamwork.

  • 07.15.2009 9:06 PM PDT

I would also like to comment that the BR is hardly ever the lone killer in online games, many times you also place a good grenade or a nice melee attack to weaken enemy shields.

This also plays true for the Assault Rifle, although it is inferior to the Battle Rifle in many ways, a combination of grenades, or even your secondary weapon combined with the use of the Assault Rifle evens the playing field. Its about remembering your inventory, and using what you got. A bubble shield + AR is more efficient than one with BR. Simply because of its faster output of damage than the BR's, as well as its far superior Close Range ability.

I'm not gonna lie, I'd probably prefer a BR in a firefight, but the AR is equally as efficient if used correctly.

  • 07.15.2009 9:13 PM PDT

Halo 3: ODST, it's like this only a hell lot better.

All I would like to know is how is this related with Halo: Reach, unless you are suggesting what should be used in Campaign, a point which was not introduced in the Original Post (a fantastic post I may add). This topic rather seems to try to persuade Bungie to remove BRs from Matchmaking, something that isn't in Halo: Reach.

As for the actual topic, I do agree with you, I have become a BR user merely because of the overpowering BR. I find myself playing Matchmaking just to do that Mongoose trick on Last Resort (where you throw a grenade next to some Fusion Coils then get on the Mongoose and blast away) usually in Team BRs matches because I just don't feel like being competitive/playing against overpowered weapons. Don't get me wrong, I'm not bad with BRs at all, I'm a 30 in Team Swat (I know not amazing but something I am thankful to even achieve), but sometimes I wonder how I was having fun against this overpowered weapon in the first place. This is a reason why I'm looking forward to Halo 3: ODST, because they're bringing a Halo: CE like pistol, and while it will not be implimented in the 2nd Disc's multiplayer (as far as I know) it'll be nice to have that kind of weapon again. (Maybe I'll even shoot down some Banshees with it!)

Bottom Line: I agree, but how was this anything related to Halo: Reach?

  • 07.15.2009 9:17 PM PDT

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
$.50 in store credit.

Posted br: x InSt1NcT x
Interesting point, but you have to realise there are two sides to every battle. It's great for the team with the BR that took an important area, but what about the other team? One guy with a BR could wipe out the entire team. They gathered strategic weapons and took control, then some guy just came up and took it with a starting weapon. I find that highly annoying.

The AR can be effective against a shotgun, just back up, stay out of it's range, and open fire. The new Magnum could be used to take out the rockets and sniper. Team firing with them would be pretty deadly. If it has the same firing speed as the H3 magnum, two people could quickly land 6 headshots on one guy. Yes, rushing with ARs will likely get you killed, so you havew to use team work.

  • 07.15.2009 9:18 PM PDT
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Posted by: The EAKLE
Posted br: x InSt1NcT x
Interesting point, but you have to realise there are two sides to every battle. It's great for the team with the BR that took an important area, but what about the other team? One guy with a BR could wipe out the entire team. They gathered strategic weapons and took control, then some guy just came up and took it with a starting weapon. I find that highly annoying.

The AR can be effective against a shotgun, just back up, stay out of it's range, and open fire. The new Magnum could be used to take out the rockets and sniper. Team firing with them would be pretty deadly. If it has the same firing speed as the H3 magnum, two people could quickly land 6 headshots on one guy. Yes, rushing with ARs will likely get you killed, so you havew to use team work.


So why not take your Magnum and give it a BR skin? My biggest problem is with the fact that a PISTOL can be as powerful as the Halo 1 pistol. A good weapon, yes, but ridiculous in the extreme. So just give it the skin of a rifle so that it makes more sense.

  • 07.15.2009 9:24 PM PDT

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
$.50 in store credit.

Posted by: NsU Soldier
Posted by: The EAKLE
Posted br: x InSt1NcT x
Interesting point, but you have to realise there are two sides to every battle. It's great for the team with the BR that took an important area, but what about the other team? One guy with a BR could wipe out the entire team. They gathered strategic weapons and took control, then some guy just came up and took it with a starting weapon. I find that highly annoying.

The AR can be effective against a shotgun, just back up, stay out of it's range, and open fire. The new Magnum could be used to take out the rockets and sniper. Team firing with them would be pretty deadly. If it has the same firing speed as the H3 magnum, two people could quickly land 6 headshots on one guy. Yes, rushing with ARs will likely get you killed, so you havew to use team work.


So why not take your Magnum and give it a BR skin? My biggest problem is with the fact that a PISTOL can be as powerful as the Halo 1 pistol. A good weapon, yes, but ridiculous in the extreme. So just give it the skin of a rifle so that it makes more sense.
Either way would work. I was thinking pistol because it can be thought of either as an improved H3 magnum or a toned down CE pistol. I'd prefer a pistol skin, but as long as it serves the purpose i would love it.

  • 07.15.2009 9:27 PM PDT

Hello, Instinct here. I am leader of a group called ''The Forge Program''. It is dedicated to those forgers who want to get recognized. Join if you like; it's open for all.

Posted by: The EAKLE Yeah but still, what are you gonna do when facing a Sniper + Rockets + Shotgun + AR, each one of this gun on the hands of 4 different oponent players camping on Gurdian's or The Pit/ Pit Stop's sniper tower or as you like to call it, and you start with no BR and no power weapon?

[Edited on 07.15.2009 9:40 PM PDT]

  • 07.15.2009 9:38 PM PDT

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
$.50 in store credit.

Posted by: x InSt1NcT x
Posted by: The EAKLE Yeah but still, what are you gonna do when facing a Sniper + Rockets + Shotgun + AR, each one of this gun on the hands of 4 different oponent players camping on Gurdian's or The Pit/ Pit Stop's sniper tower or as you like to call it, and you start with no BR and no power weapon?
I totaly get where you are coming from, but you aren't supposed to do much. They gathered the weapons and took control. Whats the point if a starting weapon takes it right back? This goes back to my main point: BRs have become to useful, and now nearly nothing is used but them and power weapons. I just dont like that. There are many other weapons that can do the job but everyone relies on the BR. Why even have other weapons then? The SMGs on guardian could take out the shotty, as could the hammer and bruteshot. These weapons could also kill the sniper if you get in close/

  • 07.15.2009 9:43 PM PDT

Hello, Instinct here. I am leader of a group called ''The Forge Program''. It is dedicated to those forgers who want to get recognized. Join if you like; it's open for all.

Posted by: The EAKLE
Posted by: x InSt1NcT x
Posted by: The EAKLE Yeah but still, what are you gonna do when facing a Sniper + Rockets + Shotgun + AR, each one of this gun on the hands of 4 different oponent players camping on Gurdian's or The Pit/ Pit Stop's sniper tower or as you like to call it, and you start with no BR and no power weapon?
I totaly get where you are coming from, but you aren't supposed to do much. They gathered the weapons and took control. Whats the point if a starting weapon takes it right back? This goes back to my main point: BRs have become to useful, and now nearly nothing is used but them and power weapons. I just dont like that. There are many other weapons that can do the job but everyone relies on the BR. Why even have other weapons then? The SMGs on guardian could take out the shotty, as could the hammer and bruteshot. These weapons could also kill the sniper if you get in close/
Then if Halo have only power weapons and no BRs then It'll be like only one cure for a deadly deseas, the first person that gets it, gets to live. Many weapons can be used to kill power weapons, but if there were no BRs then people will start using Magnums like BRs or all the other weapons as BRs (What I mean as ''as BRs'' is that they're gonna get so good that they'll be able to kill everybody and every weapon with it) and you'll get annoyed too. Don't you think?

[Edited on 07.15.2009 9:58 PM PDT]

  • 07.15.2009 9:56 PM PDT

-HaloKing3536

no no no no no no no!!!!!! BR should stay. it should be a sin if they remove it.

  • 07.15.2009 9:58 PM PDT
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Alright, let me take a deep breath and I will voice my very humble opinion on this matter.

I am an AR fan, I have long despised using a BR, but have been forced to use it for the entirety of my Halo playing career. It has become so often used that it has (unfortunately) garnered the third spot on my tool of destruction list. (Second only to AR and melee!) I had a short fling with Halo 2, and most of my time was spent with the bastard children of the game; The nerfed pistol and the needler. While these guns worked well, they were no match for the new uber weapon, the dreaded BR. Alas, my shiny needles and single shot pistol were no match for a closed burst shot in the head from one of these evil contraptions. When Halo 3 was released, I jumped on and learned that the AR had returned from CE and the BR had been toned down, to my glee, (I also learned that the needler had been jacked up, people would once again fear the pink mist!).

Alas, it was too good to be true.

Turns out, Bungie toned down the BR from a 3 shot kill with a tight burst, and made it 4 shot while loosening the burst a millionth of a quarter of a half of an inch. I was also around when the 'Pros' at MLG declared the BR the starting weapon, which is basically the same as starting the players out with a sniper rifle with only a 2X scope. Frustrated with Bungie's decisions, I decided to grab my AR in one of my first few games and go old school on these kids. Unfortunately, it had been decided by the higher ups that BRs should be the starting weapon for damn near every game type, so far as going 50/50 on Team Slayer and Lone Wolves. So, after getting my ass whooped by kids 3 times my junior with a weapon that had been my worst enemy in the second game, there was no doubt I was frustrated. When actual slayer finally came around, I was thrilled to have my beloved AR back, like a lost love reunited. Alas, my fair AR was defeated in battle by 4 shots of a BR in close range, where AR is supposed to win most battles. I make contact on every single shot I make with the AR, my accuracy is superb, not to brag of course. I couldn't believe that this weapon had defeated my precious AR. Upon being destroyed yet again in slayer and being told I suck for not using a BR, I promptly went to theater to try and locate my mistake.

There wasn't one.

I made direct contact on my enemy, pumping round after round into his chest and upper torso for 4 seconds, if not more. I run up to melee my enemy, deliver the final blow, but it was not to be. He had shot me twice in the head with his 'Pro' weapon, missing 3/5 shots, and pushing his elbow into my chest, knocking me to the ground after which I would not rise again. After a year of this frustrating endeavor, being forced to use BRs for game types, I was reminded much of the years of president Andrew Jackson. He made attempts to Americanize the native Americans, however they would have none of it and threw off these shackles off oppression. I was not so fortunate to have this option, the BR was attached to me as though an arm or leg (Which were shortly thereafter blown off by opposing BR users). I eventually had enough, and signed off of Halo for what I hoped would be the last time.

I returned from my hiatus 4 months later, jumping back into the game after playing games like Call of Duty, where there was no definitive best weapon, only the skill and trigger finger of the player would save him. I looked at my Bungie stats at the time, my K/D was at a .78, a minuscule number only good to see on your team's bullpen ERA. I learned soon that Halo was not fair, and to remember the cardinal rule; Bungie hates you. Bungie does not care about your opinion, your complaints or what you think is fair. I am not here to bash Bungie however, but to tell my story if you're still interested.

Four months after my return I had played heavily with all weapons, my COD expertise assisting in developing my prowess with the BR, the weapon I despise so. I became better, and over time, my spread improved. I am still below average with a BR, but my sniping ability is well above the norm. At this day I am at a .99 K/D and only 200 kills from that precious 1.00. While this may seem bad to those so used to BRs, I find it a miracle. The BR can be defeated, but the secret is inside of you. We all have our specialties. I am a long distance gunner, give me a sniper and needler and I'll give you 10 straight. I have enjoyed my Halo time more now, but with no thanks to the BR.

Let me sum this up for you.

I would love to see the BR disappear in Reach, but I fear, though paradoxical, it will not happen. What will 89% of Halo and MLG do without their weapon of choice? I'll tell you what they'll do; Continue playing Halo 3, refusing to buy Reach for fear of being a victim to the AR. Bungie knows this, and their sales will plummet for this new game. That accompanied with the cardinal rule; Bungie hates you, they will go so far as to eat their own fiction and bastardize it to keep their cash flow going. Not bashing Bungie, that's business as usual. I would not suggest removing the BR, unless... Well, there are two options we have here;

1. Remove the BR, Create a new weapon and give it a cliche 'Cut from the book' style entry

This way, you're taking out a weapon that was 'According to all official sources' barely used, if used at all, in the prequel, and introducing a gun to multiplayer that would even the playing field a bit.

2. Nerf away.

A lot of people forget this option, you can just nerf the BR. Not like from Halo 2 to 3 nerf, I'm talking overhaul. Since it was a prototype at the time, it should still be in development to keep with fiction, meaning it wouldn't be as strong as the future ones, it's spread would be wider, thus making it less like a 2X sniper and more like a prototypical mid range weapon. However, this would leave a small problem; The carbine. If it was even used in Reach(?) (Get on it geeks) It would overpower the BR as the primary mid range weapon. My solution is thus; Turn down the fire rate. If the carbine is made more semi automatic than trigger strung, it would result in a slower fire rate and thus would match well with the BR, as it would require you to aim more precisely with both weapons, and in my experience, precision is the name of the game.

Once again, these are all my opinions, if you don't like them, too bad, we have our differences, but I hope we can still be friends.

  • 07.15.2009 10:24 PM PDT

Posted by: Xaruny

You can actually reach a point where you can easily beat the "pros" at close range with an AR, but that is besides the point because not everyone has the time to devote to getting better at this game.

Might I propose a different nerfing method if we must nerf the BR? Lower the damage per shot.

It will still have an advantage at medium range simply from it's accuracy compared to the AR, but at close range it can't get the shields down in time, forcing them to rely on a grenade headshot or a beatdown headshot, which can easily be dodged by a wary AR user. This parallels the way AR users take down BR users at medium range, grenade and burst fire.

  • 07.15.2009 10:31 PM PDT
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Live and Learn!

I say make the pistol a 4 shot kill(which I believe it already is) with a scope and restore the AR to it's former glory and keep the BR for the BR lovers. And I thought the BR was originally going to be a single shot weapon when Bungie was first making Halo2? People made Halo CE maps and put a single shot BR in to give people a taste of what could have been and I personally loved it. From what I recall Halo CE was Long range or short range, no other options. Sniper was for long range and everything else was based around close combat. I liked it that way because vehicles were actually important. Rather than having a BR to travel the map with and mow people down, you'd jump in a hog(Which was SOOO much faster in CE, the way it should be but isn't in Halo 3) and go to the enemies base to get up close and personal.

[Edited on 07.15.2009 10:35 PM PDT]

  • 07.15.2009 10:34 PM PDT
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Posted by: Hylebos
Posted by: Xaruny

You can actually reach a point where you can easily beat the "pros" at close range with an AR, but that is besides the point because not everyone has the time to devote to getting better at this game.

Might I propose a different nerfing method if we must nerf the BR? Lower the damage per shot.

It will still have an advantage at medium range simply from it's accuracy compared to the AR, but at close range it can't get the shields down in time, forcing them to rely on a grenade headshot or a beatdown headshot, which can easily be dodged by a wary AR user. This parallels the way AR users take down BR users at medium range, grenade and burst fire.

Yes, I don't have that type of time unfortunately, I have a job and goals outside of Halo.

Your idea is intriguing, but the problem I personally have with the BR is not the damage per shot, but the fact that three of these crash into your skull at once. If they were too loosen the spread, it would make it less likely to hit all three times and much less likely to 4 shot you, while still making you want to stay accurate. Either of these options would work however, and your is easily a fair way to tone down the BR.

  • 07.15.2009 10:36 PM PDT
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Posted by: JtDob
I say make the pistol a 4 shot kill(which I believe it already is) with a scope and restore the AR to it's former glory and keep the BR for the BR lovers. And I thought the BR was originally going to be a single shot weapon when Bungie was first making Halo2? People made Halo CE maps and put a single shot BR in to give people a taste of what could have been and I personally loved it. From what I recall Halo CE was Long range or short range, no other options. Sniper was for long range and everything else was based around close combat. I liked it that way because vehicles were actually important. Rather than having a BR to travel the map with and mow people down, you'd jump in a hog(Which was SOOO much faster in CE, the way it should be but isn't in Halo 3) and go to the enemies base to get up close and personal.

Ah the testosterone driven days of CE, how I miss them so. Remember the cardinal rule though; Bungie hates you. They know they're losing revenue by not giving a midway between these two extremes, thus the BR and carbine are made.

  • 07.15.2009 10:38 PM PDT

Posted by: MLG Armor King
no offense 'stosh', but I don't think you're funny
Posted by: stosh
No offense, but I don't think you're the armor 'king'.
Map Spotlight - Hydra XXIII
Best. Thread. Ever.
Staff Member of Mythical Group

This thread speaks the truth. As much as i like the BR (because as you stated, it is very powerful), it dominates the game. It makes the game almost too competitive rather than a cool shooting game. I really want to see how the ODST Pistol works out, because if it is as awesome as the previews have shown, that could easily be the new, altenative to a BR. Way less dominant, but still gets the job done. I really hope ODST, and Reach both are based off of facts like these. Great job, EAKLE.

  • 07.15.2009 10:39 PM PDT
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Live and Learn!

Actually. Just give me my fast 'hog back and I'll be set.

  • 07.15.2009 10:40 PM PDT
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Posted by: JtDob
Actually. Just give me my fast 'hog back and I'll be set.

Hammers would be your worst nightmare, you would fly off cliffs faster than you'd see your enemy.

  • 07.15.2009 10:46 PM PDT

Posted by: Xaruny
It has become so often used that it has (unfortunately) garnered the third spot on my tool of destruction list. (Second only to AR and melee!)


First off, I applaud you on keeping it off the top spot, or even the second! (although I'm both an AR AND br fan)

Second, OP I understand where the concern for the overpowering of the battle rifle comes from, and how that could lead you to the drastic step of leaving it out of Reach. BUT, I must also say, that during my long past time of wanting to be a "pro" I played quite a bit of MLG and learned that one of my favorite activities in those games, was being the mvp with the AR, or even the pistol/melee. Because the br is superbly strong and most definitely the favorite of most MLG players,(along with others), they fail to see it faults and how to defeat it. I will give you three examples of cases where easily found combos or weapons with beat the BR no problem, and are available on most any map:

1. AR!! When rounding corners(or other close quarters areas) if an AR is able to get off the first shot, and keep a steady stream of fire on the BR player, the AR will win.
2. Plasma rifle(or SMG) combined with the pistol. Both these combos are able to beat a player with the BR, even at medium range, if you can keep a steady stream of concentrated fire.
3. For lulz, the sniper at close range can kill quicker than the BR, just one no-scope and a quick high-five to the face!! and they go down like a ton of bricks.

  • 07.15.2009 11:08 PM PDT
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Posted by: holymoses18
Posted by: Xaruny
It has become so often used that it has (unfortunately) garnered the third spot on my tool of destruction list. (Second only to AR and melee!)


First off, I applaud you on keeping it off the top spot, or even the second! (although I'm both an AR AND br fan)

Second, OP I understand where the concern for the overpowering of the battle rifle comes from, and how that could lead you to the drastic step of leaving it out of Reach. BUT, I must also say, that during my long past time of wanting to be a "pro" I played quite a bit of MLG and learned that one of my favorite activities in those games, was being the mvp with the AR, or even the pistol/melee. Because the br is superbly strong and most definitely the favorite of most MLG players,(along with others), they fail to see it faults and how to defeat it. I will give you three examples of cases where easily found combos or weapons with beat the BR no problem, and are available on most any map:

1. AR!! When rounding corners(or other close quarters areas) if an AR is able to get off the first shot, and keep a steady stream of fire on the BR player, the AR will win.
2. Plasma rifle(or SMG) combined with the pistol. Both these combos are able to beat a player with the BR, even at medium range, if you can keep a steady stream of concentrated fire.
3. For lulz, the sniper at close range can kill quicker than the BR, just one no-scope and a quick high-five to the face!! and they go down like a ton of bricks.

You're part of the pride of Halo my friend, we should do battle as allies one day.

  • 07.15.2009 11:12 PM PDT

Posted by: Xaruny
Posted by: holymoses18
[quote]Posted by: Xaruny

You're part of the pride of Halo my friend, we should do battle as allies one day.


haha, YES

  • 07.15.2009 11:23 PM PDT
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Posted by: holymoses18
Posted by: Xaruny
Posted by: holymoses18
[quote]Posted by: Xaruny

You're part of the pride of Halo my friend, we should do battle as allies one day.


haha, YES

Hoowah! Team ARs and everyone runs crying, epic.

  • 07.15.2009 11:35 PM PDT

Posted by: Xaruny
Posted by: holymoses18
Posted by: Xaruny
Posted by: holymoses18
[quote]Posted by: Xaruny

You're part of the pride of Halo my friend, we should do battle as allies one day.


haha, YES

Hoowah! Team ARs and everyone runs crying, epic.

Amazingly epic, but sadly I must confess something to you, I only read about half your post when mine popped into my head and I stopped, sorry! XD

  • 07.15.2009 11:43 PM PDT
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owned.

ok honestly know one cares that you suck and cant use the BR so you rant on the forum, because you believe that close range weapons require more skill, like the br. and you think that bungie is going to take the BR out of halo: reach? HA good luck with that.

  • 07.15.2009 11:45 PM PDT

Roland Deschain FTW!

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More than likely there won't be a Battle Rifle in Halo Reach. The Battle Rifle wasn't around during that time. If Halo 1 didn't have it then Halo Reach won't

  • 07.15.2009 11:45 PM PDT