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Subject: there needs to be a BR type weapon in reach

Big Team Battle Multiflag/Slayer on Standoff/Valhalla/Sandtrap/Avalanche = Win

Posted by: ODST is a SCAM
point 1-There has always been a utilitarian weapon in halo that was specialized for mid range...if you want it out if reach you want bungie to fundamentally change halo MP gameplay

point 2-there needs to be a mid range weapon...simple enough..without the BR(or a similar weapon)theres a gaping whole in the weapon sandbox

point 3-it needs to be atleast as powerful as it is now in H3....the community seems to be pretty split on the "make the BR stronger no make it weaker" argument ...personally i want the weapon to be as effective as the HCE pistol

point 4-without the BR type weapon the skill gap of the game would be pretty much completely gone...the BR weapon really is what separates good players from bad players...you take it out and the gameplay would become stagnant and the game would lack staying power...it would be like a little Wii game...cool at first but youl soon notice it lacks any depth and room for improvement


The skill required to get 4 shots to the head with a BR is exaggerated. Anyone can get a 4-shot with a BR, its not even about skill anymore, its about whether you shoot them before they shoot you.

  • 07.19.2009 10:16 AM PDT

I'm The Boss

If Reach was similar to H3 with no BR/3skpistol, anyone that is higher than 40 wouldn't play the game...

  • 07.19.2009 10:39 AM PDT

Clearly because the desktop uses a 3 prong plug and a laptop uses a 2 prong plug, the microwave will fill your car with tostitos better

Posted by: Hylebos
Posted by: ODST is a SCAM
Posted by: Hylebos
Posted by: ODST is a SCAM
hahaha

you know damn well that the pistol/BR is much more utilitarian than the other weapons and you also know what i meant so please stop with the side steps

I would agree, the BR is much easier to adapt than the AR as it currently exists in Halo 3, and it takes quite a bit of proficiency with the close range weapons to overcome it. Which is why if any changes need to be made to the sandbox in Halo Reach, it is to make all the weapons equally utilitarian.

Why is it that it should be harder to adapt the AR to medium range than it is to adapt the BR to close range? If anything they should be equally as hard.
bcuz the AR is easier to use

in your version of halo all the really easy to use weapons are just as effective as the BR

what would be the point of ever becoming good then?...you could just stay a spray and pray noob forever and do well(even more so than is possible in halo 3)

Well first, if you spray and pray, your going to get slaughtered by someone who carefully aims and burst fires his AR, and secondly, the AR is not a medium range weapon, so the BR would still be used when you enter medium range.

I find it so interesting how people say that its easy to use the AR when they also find it easy to use the BR, yet the AR ends up the "noob" weapon and the BR is a "Pro's" weapon, apparently.


The truth is people overrate themselves on these forums and portray themselves in a way that is useful to their point. In fact, I just think people believe they are a lot more skilled at this game than they actually are.

I don't know about other people here, but after playing the Halo series since 2002 and putting in at least 21,000 games on XBL and LAN throughout all three games, I still probably kill people in 5 shots or more quite a bit more often than I kill people with 4 shots in default matchmaking. Another thing I notice is that even though this is the case, I'm not getting out BR'd a lot when I roll into matchmaking in a party of 4 with 3 other level 50's in team slayer. Sure I lose some individual battles, everyone does, but overall in a 1v1 BR fight at level 50 default team slayer, I can honestly say I win quite a bit more of my individual battles than I lose. This leads me to believe I don't suck at aiming, but most people, especially people on these forums, do not have as good of aim as they say, let alone overall gaming skill.

Lets be truthful here, we can go into one of the billions of different in game scenarios on any map and cover one instance at a time and show where the BR can -blam!- people and when it gets outclassed, but that's not going to prove anything to anyone.

I honestly believe, more often than not, because of the position that a player is firing from, the movement of the target, obstacles in someone's line of sight, distance from the target, XBL itself, and all the other factors that you think about subconsciously while taking while shooting at a target, the average Halo player on their own probably takes on average 6-7 shots with the Battle Rifle to kill an opponent. If someone could prove me wrong that would be great. I would love to see all these four shooting gods who started the series on Halo 3 and think the battle rifle is overpowered prove me wrong.

Lets take this into consideration as well, no one ever will be able to master any weapon of this game to the point where you reach that gun's full potential simply because of the fact that we are human. The battle rifle is one of the guns in this game that is probably more challenging to master because of the challenge of aiming it alone. Everyone misses shots, everyone misses shots every single game almost. I mean, I can not think of a game where I never missed a shot with a BR. I've never even come close to doing that good in one game, let alone being that consistent at Halo.

We should not be looking at a gun like the battle rifles maximum potential because no one will ever reach it. If you nerf the battle rifle, you nerf its max potential, and then you have to factor in how close a player can come to reaching that potential. So for example if you make the battle rifle a 5 or 6 shot weapon, your probably making it on average a 7 or 8 shot weapon.

Guns like the assault rifle or pretty much any close range weapon are much easier to come close to the limit of reaching the maximum potential for destruction for that gun. Will people still miss and -blam!- up with them? Yes. But its so much harder for people to mess up in CQC for two main reason, its a lot easier to aim CQC weapons which is an undeniable fact, and they also have almost 0 potential for being used at ranges much greater than melee range. So the situations you would even consider using that weapon in are already limited, and then you add on the fact that it is simple to use in those situations.

In short, its a lot easier to get a kill or trade kills in the AR's domain (short range obviously) than it is in the battle rifle's domain. I don't view any weapons as "noob" or "pros". They all are used for different situations and require different skill sets to use. Some are undeniably easier to master than others, that's the way it is.

I would rather see the assault rifle and one or two other close quarter combats tweaked in some way to make them slightly more effective at longer ranges (smaller bullet spread, more ammo, whatever floats your boat) than a nerfing of one of the two middle range weapons in this game or getting rid of it. Frankly, I think the assault rifle should be more useful, I drop that -blam!- like its hot almost every game I'm in. There are just so many better close range weapons that can beat it, and if I have a mid-long range weapon as well, there is no point to carrying it with me, ever.

I know I went off on a tangent, but I'm too lazy to go back and edit or spell check, so I hope at least something in that wall is relevant to this conversation.

  • 07.19.2009 11:03 AM PDT

Posted by: Xx Mr Bill xX
I know I went off on a tangent, but I'm too lazy to go back and edit or spell check, so I hope at least something in that wall is relevant to this conversation.

No need to, it was long and well thought out. Again, I'm still on the tipping point between the "nerf the BR / strengthen close range weapons" or the "Just get better and overcome".

I'll agree with most of your points however.

  • 07.19.2009 11:12 AM PDT

Ugh...

First on a BWU.. yeah, I'm cool.

ODST;MYTHIC Screenshot winner! One of the first to get their hands on the mythic map pack.

There needs to be more then 1 mid-ranged rifle.

  • 07.19.2009 11:13 AM PDT

Posted by: POKEY CLYDE
There needs to be more then 1 mid-ranged rifle.

Theres the carbine and the needler :)

Perhaps a two burst shot weapon with spread between a BR and a carbine?

  • 07.19.2009 11:16 AM PDT

BOOM HEAD SHOT!!!!

no doubt bungie has already thought this through carefully ( i hope ate least ) but when it comes down to mid range weapons BR i think is just fine, maybe some upgrading that 4 shot system and the 3 shot burst but other than that BR would work just fine as the mid range weapon... Lets just see what surprises ODST comes with.

  • 07.19.2009 11:24 AM PDT

Clearly because the desktop uses a 3 prong plug and a laptop uses a 2 prong plug, the microwave will fill your car with tostitos better

Posted by: Hylebos
Posted by: POKEY CLYDE
There needs to be more then 1 mid-ranged rifle.

Theres the carbine and the needler :)

Perhaps a two burst shot weapon with spread between a BR and a carbine?


Carbine starting definitely needs to be at least a possibility in Reach if for variation alone. I get tired of Team BR's myself. Not to mention there should just be more carbines on maps in general. The needler is an alright medium range weapon, I find it to be streaky. Personally, I either am getting a lot of kills with it or almost none at all.

Personally, I think I've thought myself onto a "buff the assault rifle" mode, no matte what happens. While aside from the magnum (depending on how good you are with it) it is the best close range weapon to counter the BR at a slight distance. I don't really consider it a short range weapon even though that's where it is most effective, I think the assault rifle and the magnum are kind of in class of their own, caught in between short and mid range, more on the close range side.

I think a good alternative to decreasing the efficiency of one weapon and making the carbine which, is already the more powerful mid range gun, dominant is to keep the battle rifle the same and slightly improve the range of the the magnum and assault rifle. What I'm starting to think about is increasing the accuracy of the assault rifle and very slightly increasing both the accuracy and rate of fire of the M6G. I don't know about adding a scope onto the pistol, a 1.5x scope would be kind of cool, but I'm not sure if that would just be adding another rifle. Coupled with added carbines to maps in place of a BR spawn or two and the ability to spawn with carbines, I think this would be a really good way to vary and balance these guns.

Here is some of my reasoning

- There are already plenty of short range weapons. In fact there are 8 of them not including the AR and Magnum (Mauler, spiker, shotgun, SMG, sword, plasma rifle, grav hammer, flame thrower). Slightly distancing the magnum from other short range weapons won't decrease the already massive (compared to other weapon groups) variety from weapons in this group. You can find at least one, most of the times two or three, of those other weapons on the map if you no longer consider the AR and Magnum short range effective.

- As long as neither weapon is significantly altered and are only slightly increased in their ranged killing abilities I view it as killing two birds with one stone. AR enthusiasts are happy because not only is the AR staying the same, but its slightly more effective against the BR. BR supporters are happy because... well the battle rifle is still in the game and it will still defeat the Magnum and AR, you just need a bit more space now.

- Variety. Imagine having Reach with 4 viable starting weapons (Carbine, BR, Magnum, and AR). Right now, games are getting bland. It happens as time goes on with any game, but with so many different options, it could keep interest a lot longer. I love Team BRs, but I get tired of it, and at his point, it only takes me one or two games of default slayer to realize why I stick with BRs of the two options I have.

  • 07.19.2009 11:45 AM PDT
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Yes, a BR is necessary for the game. I would be upset if there wasn't somethinglike it in the game.

  • 07.19.2009 11:59 AM PDT

slm a.q.

silenced smg in reach pls
Posted by: POKEY CLYDE
There needs to be more then 1 mid-ranged rifle.

  • 07.19.2009 12:01 PM PDT
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Posted by: ODST is a SCAM
Posted by: YumBuscuitMan
Posted by: ODST is a SCAM
point 1-There has always been a utilitarian weapon in halo that was specialized for mid range...if you want it out if reach you want bungie to fundamentally change halo MP gameplay

point 2-there needs to be a mid range weapon...simple enough..without the BR(or a similar weapon)theres a gaping whole in the weapon sandbox

point 3-it needs to be atleast as powerful as it is now in H3....the community seems to be pretty split on the "make the BR stronger no make it weaker" argument ...personally i want the weapon to be as effective as the HCE pistol

point 4-without the BR type weapon the skill gap of the game would be pretty much completely gone...the BR weapon really is what separates good players from bad players...you take it out and the gameplay would become stagnant and the game would lack staying power...it would be like a little Wii game...cool at first but youl soon notice it lacks any depth and room for improvement


The skill required to get 4 shots to the head with a BR is exaggerated. Anyone can get a 4-shot with a BR, its not even about skill anymore, its about whether you shoot them before they shoot you.


rofl

no offense but at your rank..nobody is 4 shotting(unless they are on a new account)

after your next game go into theater and count how many shots it takes you and your opponents to kill in

even at level 50 at default settings people usually kill in 5-6 shots

That's because a true "4 shot" can only happen in MLG due to the 110% damage and 90% shield recharge time.
But yes, the BR takes way more skill than most other weapons and it's hard to consistently pull off 4 shots even in mlg.

[Edited on 07.19.2009 12:05 PM PDT]

  • 07.19.2009 12:04 PM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

I honestly don't see the point of this thread. Bungie already nerfed the mid-ranged game to its limits; anymore nerfing of those weapons and the exponential progression of destroying and putting this series to an end would be complete.

One thing that needs to change is this idea of starting with only a close-ranged weapon that so many people fall into believing is right, and this idea that every single "close-ranged" weapon should be used for the sake of variety which has nothing to do with a game being dynamic and enjoyable.

If Bungie lowers the effectiveness of the mid-ranged weapons, then they might as well do the same to or remove all the Power Weapons and Power-ups, because this game would no longer be even remotely balanced if done not so.

If Reach's weapons are designed similar to Halo 3's or worse, then I will probably just stick to my other games which are more enjoyable right now. But, I think Bungie is not that naive to do such a thing, which is weird coming from someone who rarely agrees with their decisions in game design.

[Edited on 07.19.2009 12:24 PM PDT]

  • 07.19.2009 12:19 PM PDT
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Posted by: Gig4t3ch
Fact 2: European guys are hotter

I guess I can understand if you don't want to make out with guys in the US if they're so ugly, you should just say so though.

Stop bumping this damn thread, Bungie will obviously have some form of mid-range weapon. Everyone knows that, stop trying to make it look like you thought up some great idea.

  • 07.20.2009 7:55 AM PDT
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Posted by: Gig4t3ch
Fact 2: European guys are hotter

I guess I can understand if you don't want to make out with guys in the US if they're so ugly, you should just say so though.

Posted by: Alec9224
Posted by: ODST is a SCAM
Posted by: YumBuscuitMan
Posted by: ODST is a SCAM
point 1-There has always been a utilitarian weapon in halo that was specialized for mid range...if you want it out if reach you want bungie to fundamentally change halo MP gameplay

point 2-there needs to be a mid range weapon...simple enough..without the BR(or a similar weapon)theres a gaping whole in the weapon sandbox

point 3-it needs to be atleast as powerful as it is now in H3....the community seems to be pretty split on the "make the BR stronger no make it weaker" argument ...personally i want the weapon to be as effective as the HCE pistol

point 4-without the BR type weapon the skill gap of the game would be pretty much completely gone...the BR weapon really is what separates good players from bad players...you take it out and the gameplay would become stagnant and the game would lack staying power...it would be like a little Wii game...cool at first but youl soon notice it lacks any depth and room for improvement


The skill required to get 4 shots to the head with a BR is exaggerated. Anyone can get a 4-shot with a BR, its not even about skill anymore, its about whether you shoot them before they shoot you.


rofl

no offense but at your rank..nobody is 4 shotting(unless they are on a new account)

after your next game go into theater and count how many shots it takes you and your opponents to kill in

even at level 50 at default settings people usually kill in 5-6 shots

That's because a true "4 shot" can only happen in MLG due to the 110% damage and 90% shield recharge time.
But yes, the BR takes way more skill than most other weapons and it's hard to consistently pull off 4 shots even in mlg.


Uh, Wrong. iFKN4shotNUBSinTSlAyErAnDMLG

  • 07.20.2009 7:57 AM PDT

i honestly wouldnt mind if bungie replaced all of the current weapons in campaign. itd be something new and exciting. but i think that by now they know better than to take weapons out of MP, especially one as widely used as the BR. the one thing i really want in halo reach is the playability, or at least forgeability, of all the weapons and vehicles from past halo games. i miss my beam rifle in halo 3 as a starting weapon.

  • 07.20.2009 9:01 AM PDT

There's probably no god. Now stop
worrying and get on with your life.

Posted by: ODST is a SCAM
point 1-There has always been a utilitarian weapon in halo that was specialized for mid range...if you want it out if reach you want bungie to fundamentally change halo MP gameplay

point 2-there needs to be a mid range weapon...simple enough..without the BR(or a similar weapon)theres a gaping whole in the weapon sandbox

point 3-it needs to be atleast as powerful as it is now in H3....the community seems to be pretty split on the "make the BR stronger no make it weaker" argument ...personally i want the weapon to be as effective as the HCE pistol

point 4-without the BR type weapon the skill gap of the game would be pretty much completely gone...the BR weapon really is what separates good players from bad players...you take it out and the gameplay would become stagnant and the game would lack staying power...it would be like a little Wii game...cool at first but youl soon notice it lacks any depth and room for improvement


1. The gameplay should be changed you idiot, it's not Halo 3.1.

2. There will probably be a more accurate AR for mid range.

3. No, it's too powerful. 4-6 shots from most distances plus 1 shot when shields are down.

4. Skill should mean how well you can use each weapon, not how well you can point at someone with the same weapon.

Stupid BR whores.

  • 07.20.2009 4:55 PM PDT

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