Halo: Reach Forum
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  • Subject: Halo Reach environment, mood, gameplay.
Subject: Halo Reach environment, mood, gameplay.

First post. Be kind. ^^

So, halo in general has a lot of different environments. And i mean a LOT. Halo Reach should really take advantage of that because it just makes for a richer experience in gameplay. The environment you play in the campaign, multiplayer, now firefight, w.e. really adds to the mood and the gameplay, more so than you realize. And the Environment that i define in this case is broad . It can include the scenery, weather effects, special effects, destructibles, background battles, location, etc.

Talking about weather effects first, it is really effective in capturing a certain feeling or highlighting a new environment that the player steps in. I mean Bungie really did a good job of creating that "feeling" for ex: in Halo: CE's level AotCR, (you were immediately isolated since the beginning of the level when foehammer comes and drops you off in enemy hostile territory. You also feel confined in those forerunner corridors and you seek to go outside expecting anything But snow. The weather choice they made was a really interesting choice because it started to build this feeling that you were completely and utterly alone in a vast and cold canyon full of enemies. In truth, ever since the level the silent cartographer, the developers brilliantly started building this feeling of isolation to the chief... like when you were under the surface looking for the maps to the control room all by yourself, and then on AotCR you were aided by marines outside, however when you entered the forerunner corridors, not once did those marines follow you. That was all done on purpose, u know y? to build that feeling you had when you first played the level 343 guilty spark. Being Alone.

There was another great weather effect or special effect if you can call it, in that level: the creepy fog. It was a perfect choice, because the level was dark, there was a crashed pelican in the scene, there were background battles like when the covenant were being attacked by something that weren't human, you didn't know what was going on or what was going to happen next. That's key. Yes, the fog was used to highlight that new swampy environment but its secondary function was to build that feeling: you didn't know what was going on or what was going to happen next. Then they release the flood and it was completely unexpected. It was... Perfect. Halo: CE was a game that was completely different from halo 2 or halo 3, you know why? Because you were isolated and alone for most of the game. I'm not saying that is preferred but the developers could bring back some of that feeling in halo reach. Just a thought.

Yes, in halo 2 you were constantly accompanied by your marines and all, but the levels that you were not, those are the levels that felt like halo:CE. (levels such as Regret, Gravemind, High Charity, etc) But halo 2 also had a nice balance of not so alone battles in metropolis and the chasing of teh illusive scarab. That's what halo reach needs, it needs its fair share of alone time as well as having back up and kickin ass in large scale battles. Halo 3, sadly, IMO screwed this up by adding the arbiter who was basically following your ass for 90% of the game. The only time you got to yourself was in the level Cortana, The main problem there was that the mood was not built up to what it could have been. you were just thrown on your own after being with the arby the whole time and in the end, most people hated that level.

Halo Reach could build up to the feeling of isolation by having you initially start out certain levels with a squad of spartans, or marines, or ODST and slowly, killing them off or seperating them from you via storyline. As much as I'd like to kick ass alongside other spartans, I def. don't want them tailing you throughout the entire game. There NEEDs to be a few levels where you are alone and that same ol feeling of isolation and desperation is there. This creates a sense to regroup with your soldiers. Like remember when you don't see anyone at all in the level 343 guilty spark and you feel so completely alone that when you finally see the last batch of marines that survived at the end of the level, you are naturally inclined to protect them because now you care for them since they provide you with company and comic relief. If they always give you your endless supply of marines like in halo 2 and 3, you never need to protect them. They'll be more to come, and you won't be as immersed in the storyline.

Hm. how did weather effects ... transform into this... lolz. But they are ALL connected. trust me.

Since i'm hearing that reach is being made in a completely brand new engine, they can do so much with the graphics. And graphics don't always have to do with how real something looks. It's the little tiny details and style that also promote it. The style that Halo already has. If they could do all the stuff they did with weather in Halo: CE, imagine what they can do in Halo: Reach. I have some imaginations that I'd like to put down. Like maybe the first time you see a fellow dead spartan or a fellow dying spartan after an epic battle, there should be rain, there has to be rain. I can just imagine the spartan saying his last words, with battered armor, a cracked visor, puddles of blood all over the ground, the rain washing it to your own boots and the feeling that it builds in you to seek revenge. Or when a certain city gets glassed and you go to check it out for survivors, you see the nuclear like devestation that it has left, except worse because there are no remnants of anything, anywhere. just a giant molten crater and pumes of smoke and plasma. In the horizon you can see a distant sun covered with different colored smoke clouds, and then there is a shower of nuclear/plasma dust showering where you are. all accompanied by marty's epic music. exept this one should be as epic, it should be more tragic.

Locations. Locations. Locations. I'm expecting reach to include the vast jungles in between different military outposts. And by vast i also mean open. I'm up for a little more open gameplay than the the linear ones in the previous two halo's. Of course, a mix is good cause we can have both and everyone is happy. The spartan training grounds should be in the game no matter who we are playing as. The fans need their canon. There should be a variety of different millitary outposts from, marine training grounds, to vehicle heavy fortresses, and some interesting new futuristic structures. something like that space tether in new mombasa. (who knows, there could be some in reach, but it does not necessarily have to have that, it just should be something new and unexpected, maybe even reachable in the story instead of just background scenery) ONI headquarters, small cities too. Of course reach is a planet so a planet can't be only engulfed in jungles. The climate wouldn't allow it. There has to be places near water, and outposts in the deserts.(o water reminds me of the gondola rides)There can be high altitude communications stations in high mountains and there could be many frosty, wintery levels in the polar regions of reach before the glassing. What halo reach should do is also, delve into another color pallette. We've seen too many greens and there should be more red and orange hues. Maybe outside of the tropical regions, there could be a fall-season like environments to fight the covenant in. New is definitely recommended because it is a new game afterall. I kinda missed the space missions in halo 3. They should really consider putting this in halo reach. But in no means does it have to be the same old same old. The developers could finally implement zero-G or close to zero- G combat that the books have talked about all the time. With a new engine, anything is possible. And remember the epic drop from Cairo station with the bomb in halo 2? That was a signature piece in the halo 2 trailer, something like that would be greatly appreciated. Even the ODST drops in the new Halo 3: ODST game looks promising. Halo reach should have bits from all these games. We also need a level inside 1 or more convenant cruisers. I mean who could forget the first time going inside a covenant ship in halo:CE. That reminds me, Night levels have to be in the game as well. The thing about the level Truth and Reconciliation was that it had a different feeling because of its location. I mean, halo 2 and halo 3 tried to replicate night levels but what made truth and reconciliation good was that it was located in some canyon high up with such a beautiful scenic view: The gas Giant Threshold. Reach can do stuff like that. After all it has two moons am i right? also the sky needs to have background battles going on between the UNSC fleet and covenant. I still remember the slipspace entry in halo 2 level Delta halo/regret, when more than a 1000 ships plus high charity materializes in the sky. The epic feel is there. The feeling of being outnumbered is there.

Spartans definitely need to be outnumbered to make the gameplay better. Since we probably will be alongside other spartans, the enemy count should be greatly increased. More hunters plz. Elites as enemies FTW. and include as many vehicles that are possible from other games too. If you say it doesnt fit the story, it could. Since reach is destroyed, many new vehicles were never used in the coming halos. So there is a lot of room for new prototype vehicles as well as weapons. Lets get to use em before they get destroyed. The covenant needs to have their scarabs too. And i also read somewhere about fighting a scarab in the night. That'd be amazing. Especially since the scarab or something similar can fit as there were covenant technolginal structures digging to find the forerunner artifact.

Ha, i guess i ran out of words. Krazy for a first post huh? I'll add some more stuff later, just comment on some of my ideas and discuss some of your own.

  • 07.18.2009 4:57 PM PDT
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Damn, that sounds perfect.

  • 07.18.2009 5:00 PM PDT
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You kind of rambled on there... lol; but I agree with pretty much everything you said. The mood of the level needs to not only be set by what you're doing, you need to also have appropriate weather and marines placed at the right time and in certain quantities.

  • 07.18.2009 5:22 PM PDT

That would be insane! I loved the feeling of halo ce where its just you, against a whole covenant army. When you did get marines, you always wanted to protect them, because they were the only support you got. The feeling of having nobody to back you up in the Two Betrayals level was awesome. You knew its just you vs everything. I want to be overwhelmed with enemys like i was on the bridge in the assault on the control room. Then getting in the scorpion tank for the first time was great, you just felt like you wanted to blow everything up, and you did, you had to face a army of ghosts, wraiths, and infantry. The blow everything up levels in halo 2 and 3 just didnt seem right for some reason.... Anyway, i hope everything you wrote gets put in halo reach, because those are some truly awesome ideas.

[Edited on 07.18.2009 5:38 PM PDT]

  • 07.18.2009 5:34 PM PDT

That would be insane! I loved the feeling of halo ce where its just you, against a whole covenant army. When you did get marines, you always wanted to protect them, because they were the only support you got. The feeling of having nobody to back you up in the Two Betrayals level was awesome. You knew its just you vs everything. I want to be overwhelmed with enemys like i was on the bridge in the assault on the control room. Then getting in the scorpion tank for the first time was great, you just felt like you wanted to blow everything up, and you did, you had to face a army of ghosts, wraiths, and infantry. The blow everything up levels in halo 2 and 3 just didnt seem right for some reason.... Anyway, i hope everything you wrote gets put in halo reach, because those are some truly awesome ideas.

Indeed. Being outnumbered is what halo is all about, having only a few soldiers by your side and fighting a war all guirilla style brings back memories from Halo: CE don't it? Halo Reach should build on that same feeling but try to make it even better. I think the story should be played through multiple perspectives, frankly, i don't see it being played any other way. most of the spartan's from the book should be implemented in the game and i know that as much as the spartans functioned as an elite team, they were proffessional lone wolves as well. The battles along side other spartans and human foot soldiers or w.e. should be epic, halo 3 and halo 2 style. The battlegrounds itself should be beautifully littered with dead bodies from each faction and they should really build on the graphics engine to show as if a battle is actually taking place. Like plasma mortars should leave fairly wide molten craters and each plasma shot or human bullet should leave a mark on w.e. surface it hits at least for a while anyways. If plasma hits the trees, there should be mini animations where the tree is engulfed and slowly deteriorates from the plasma burn.

When a spartan at first jumps from a significant height, i dont know about fall damage, but the little subtle detail of a spartan impacting the ground and creating cracks along the floor should be present. I mean they literally way a ton. Same with hunters landing on the ground from phantom dropships. Hunters btw should be even harder to kill, and there should be more than one pair in one of the more intense battles. Brutes are not present in this timeline so elites take the mantle once again. And they did such a good job in halo:CE that id welcome them anytime.

They should be shaped just like in halo 1 or even halo 2, halo 3 ones are a little bulky and hunched. We dont want brutes, we want the sleek elite that is cunning and can do everything and anything in the battle field. Even the way they through the grenades should be like in halo: CE. Brutes throw grenades like wussies. Elites throw them like a bullet, and if its plasma, sometimes you dont even know how fast you got stuck. That feeling needs to come back. And the elites should come in all the different variets, from blue minors to red majors, to gold commanders, and white spec ops. There are also black spec ops groups with a special team of fuel rod weilding grunds as well. Bring em back. And theres jetpack zero-G elites as well. Equip them with carbines in zero g environments and theyd be killer.

The AI in this game should be really good as well. When Bungie invented the pack mentality concept for halo 3 brutes, it was a good idea and they can carry that on in Halo Reach for the elites. Make them use the environment and perform flanking maneuvers. make them spam grenades. Make them send out the grunts first and use Jackals as lines of defense. The elites should be the commanders of the squadrons, they should hang back and strike at the right moment, when your shields are down. The camo elites should be really cunning like they could send a bunch of grunts and jackals from one side and he could turn on his camo and attack from the other side. Also, the energy sword weilding elites that charge at you so valiantly are also welcome. Except maybe this time, they can not only straight on sprint at you but they can do the ducks and dives that they did in halo: CE to dodge grenades... this time, make them perform that maneuver to charge at you with an energy sword, weaving and dodging between cover, sort of like a brute cheiftan but with the agility of a true elite.

The AI of jackals can be really improved. I was watching 300 the other day and imagine if certain higher class jackals were smart enough to form a phalanx maneuver on attacking soldiers. This means they can protect a leader, say a gold elite, by overlapping at least a dozen of their shields and making it impenetrable unless via power weapons or precision sniping. Then You would really need to work as a team to kill the jackals, as you would need to flank.

When Hunters are surrounded, if the pair is still alive, i think they should have the AI make the two go back to back. They can then cooperatively protect themsleves with their shields and use their fuel rod guns/cannons and their 360 degree coverage to take on all targets. That would make them way more fun and challenging to kill. After one is dead though, The other hunter pair should have an increased adreniline fueled rush and it charges like a bull(not as fast as the halo 2 brutes but fast enough that you dont have much time to shoot, but you can still side step)Hunters should really be a brutal enemy (it is evident in the books as well) and the game should show that it does not care for any of the minor classes of the covenant, so if there were grunts and jackals in the way, it would crush them or bat them away. It would be a sweet new tactic to use an enraged hunter on some unsuspecting grunts or even use a hunter to break a jackal phalanx maneuver.

There always needs to be balance though. And I'm suggesting these little tweaks and upgrades for each covenant species because i don't want to be able to beat the campaign so easily even in normal. The newbies can play easy, but they should make normal campaign the difficulty of halo: CE and heroic campaign slightly harder...... As for Legendary, make me BELIEVE the quote "You face opponents who have never known defeat, who laugh in alien tongues at your efforts to survive. This is suicide" (and its true, the covenant in this time line have not known defeat. Make them come wave after wave. Make them gritty and badass, at least the elites and hunters. The grunts can stay wimpy, the jackals need to be smarter. If there are any other races, make it so they fit a role in the covenant forces instead of a failed clone of the elites a.k.a. brutes. (they are aliens after all, halo 1 did a really good job of making them feel alien like.... part of that was because they DID speak in alien tongues. I think Halo Reach should have prototyppe translating machines, that can only translate certain battle tactic words from the covenant, and the rest are alien and cannot be comprehended. This makes it as if they are really alien. later, in important cutscenes, they can improve the technology and by the end of the game, we can finally understand them like we did in halo 2.

Make all vehicles destructible. So you cant always depend on the dropships to drop off reinforcements, sometimes, a few well hit covenant mortars should be able to destroy the pelican and no reinforcements for you. This would work both ways. You can also destroy covenant vehicles. All of these ideas can contribute to a more realistic campaign feel, a more desperate one as well, when nothing is set or defined. Phantom drop loads should be randomized, we shouldnt be able to predict where they drop the troops or what kind of troops are being dropped.

The Spartan's most important lesson that they learned from CPO Mendez was to "prepare for anything and everything" ... make that happen developers of Bungie. Make it so we have to prepare for anything because everything will be possible in Halo:Reach.

  • 07.19.2009 3:38 PM PDT

Wherever you roam
so far from home
you'll be safe from peril
life threatening and terrible
if you avoid David Powel
and keep track of your towel.

I feel like pointing out a couple things.

Firstly a major theme of Halo 3 is that Master Chief can't save Humanity on his own, he needs help and the game reflects that in the Arbiter. Even in Cortana where Chief is alone for the entire level he is rescued by the Arbiter.

Secondly, everyone threw grenades like a bullet in Halo: CE. Even the Grunts. I'm just saying, the Brutes don't throw grenades like pansies, they throw them Halo 2/3 style.

Thirdly, I don't see how things can be prototypes at the Battle of Reach and be fully functional, standard issue equipment mere months later. It's like the whole "BR's didn't exist back then" argument, utterly foolish. (I'm talking about your translator idea by the way).

Otherwise I like your ideas, most of them aren't very realistic though (for inclusion in the game that is). Also besides the advanced group tactics for AI most of your ideas are just aesthetic. But your ideas for Jackal phalanx and back-to-back Hunters are especially good.

You have a "Shooting for the Moon" mentality it seems, it's all well and good to "land amongst the stars" if you miss but I hope Bungie realizes that they might end up in the Sun if they're too ambitious.

  • 07.19.2009 5:17 PM PDT

I feel like pointing out a couple things.

Firstly a major theme of Halo 3 is that Master Chief can't save Humanity on his own, he needs help and the game reflects that in the Arbiter. Even in Cortana where Chief is alone for the entire level he is rescued by the Arbiter.

Secondly, everyone threw grenades like a bullet in Halo: CE. Even the Grunts. I'm just saying, the Brutes don't throw grenades like pansies, they throw them Halo 2/3 style.

Thirdly, I don't see how things can be prototypes at the Battle of Reach and be fully functional, standard issue equipment mere months later. It's like the whole "BR's didn't exist back then" argument, utterly foolish. (I'm talking about your translator idea by the way).

Otherwise I like your ideas, most of them aren't very realistic though (for inclusion in the game that is). Also besides the advanced group tactics for AI most of your ideas are just aesthetic. But your ideas for Jackal phalanx and back-to-back Hunters are especially good.

You have a "Shooting for the Moon" mentality it seems, it's all well and good to "land amongst the stars" if you miss but I hope Bungie realizes that they might end up in the Sun if they're too ambitious.


Understandable. You do bring up some good points. Firstly, yes the master chief can't save humanity on his own, there are numerous sacrifices that must be made, i completely understand. In the books, from the moment he deployed the rest of his spartans to die, he was "spending these lives" in the end to win the war. And there are more examples in Halo 3 as well, such as (spoiler) Sgt. Johnson and Miranda Keyes as well as captain keyes, the crew of the pillar of autumn, etc who sacrificed their lives... and by no means did the MC achieve to save humanity on his own. I completely agree with that point. But i'm not saying or implying that they should remove that. They should divide it equally among each of the characters that take part in the story of Reach. I mean, MC did save humanity from total destruction before all on his own in the first game. But that can also be argued because he was aided by cortana. However cortana was an AI asset that helped via other means, unlike the arbiter. IMO, the glory of the MC was kinda taken or shared because of the arbiter. I mean, he was there the entire time, from mission one. He was holding master chief's hand the entire time. That shouldn't be the case.

What i mean by all this is that reach should be a game where.. instead of the arbiter helping you in every battle, your spartans shouldn't do the same either, there should be different missions built around different spartans and that highlight their stories. I mean of cource they should kick ass together, but they shouldnt be so dependant on one another either. Each one should be capable of contributing great things into the storyline itself instead of tagging along one individual who is like the figurehead and its all about him. Halo reach should be more of a shared victory, or a shared loss. In either case, it is shared. The fate of humanity can't possibly hang in the balance depending on one hero, just yet. There needs to be lots of heroes, there needs to be a lot of sacrifices. That is what i want halo: reach's story to be like.

Secondly, ok my bad if i wanted faster and stronger arms for throwing grenades. I guess you would need a little heads up. But i only want the game to feel a "tiny" bit harder plz. i mean. halo 3 legendary was a joke.

Thirdly, the prototype translator idea was just a once thought over idea to implement some alien sounds and garbles into the game... u know to bring back the alien feel. I guess that would not work in this case, but if you have better ideas to bring back some of that same feeling, post away.

Yea.. the title was environment, mood, gameplay.. environment is a part of aesthetics so i was discussing that the most. I mean.. that was the whole point. and environment can directly or indirectly affect the mood or the atmosphere, and that can really create a richer gameplay and more memorable experience.

Well.. i know they aren't easily appliable to halo and the players must adapt to new changes IF these ideas were ever in the game. However, i don't quite get what your saying.. most of them aren't very realistic though .. because i thought that was the whole point behind most of the ideas i made. It was to make it more realistic, more believable... i mean some of them were not that good like the translator, but i still don't get by what you mean when saying its not realistic... i think if these ideas were put in the game, it would actually make the game more realistic.. of cource it would change the game a lot.. but isnt that why halo reach is a completely new game? i mean think about it. The trilogy is done, halo multiplayer in general was a great success. campaign was to the most degree amazing as well, and anything left out in the story or any remaining ideas the bungie had still fresh after halo 3 was put into an expansion Halo: ODST.

Halo Reach is a brand new slate. Brand new engine, Brand new possible characters, never before seen in any previous halo games. Now they have the chance to really change things around a bit. Step outside the box once again. Not limit themselves because its a sequel. Yes it is a prequel, so the halo needs to be there. And of cource the halo will be there.. i carefully thought of each idea so that it wouldn't be un halo like at all. Its not like the other ideas in this forum that have to do more with halo resembling other games. My little suggestions have very much to do with halo, and for the most part, i tried my best to not rip ideas off other game titles.. i just used the previous halo games : the good stuff and the flaws. The fans have gotten a lot of stuff from the trilogy, they should get brand new things from halo reach. Things unexpected, things mind blowing. Things new and innovative. Doesn't mean the old stuff has to go away. It just means that the old stuff should be reinnovated to make it new again. Bring the life back into the same old enemies, put em in new environments, introduce new gameplay and tactics, of cource there will be a new story. Make it not just a story of one soldier but the combined stories of many, that alone makes it a different game from the trilogy as its not just circled around MC, but around the people who helped him become the MC. Thats all i have to say. for now. =]

  • 07.19.2009 10:29 PM PDT