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This topic has moved here: Subject: Enkidu - Cortana Letters Revisted?
  • Subject: Enkidu - Cortana Letters Revisted?
Subject: Enkidu - Cortana Letters Revisted?
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Dude i agree with you. I think E. is saying that he is Ingigi and that JD is Anunnaki. Now about the poem at the beginning. I was epic before demons rode in the dawn sky. here E. is saying he was before the demons that rode in the sky. Could he be now talking about JD? The dawn sky would be near the sun. Now this I am thinking i might be a little off on but i thought i would throw it out their.

  • 05.01.2004 12:24 PM PDT
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Posted by: J_A_C_K_A_S_S
Dude i agree with you. I think E. is saying that he is Ingigi and that JD is Anunnaki. Now about the poem at the beginning.


Jackass, thats not what i said. this isn't about what JD is. Its about what E is. Is E an Ingigi or an Anunnki? Ingigi = foe and Anunnaki = friend. Understand?

  • 05.01.2004 12:32 PM PDT
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Oh ok sorry Tartarus. I misunderstood you. Well in that case i still agree with you. And i still think that E. is Ingigi.

  • 05.01.2004 12:35 PM PDT
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Posted by: J_A_C_K_A_S_S
Dude i agree with you. I think E. is saying that he is Ingigi and that JD is Anunnaki. Now about the poem at the beginning.


dude this is not what I'm saying. don't pass this up so quickly. this isn't about JD being anything. Its about what E is. Is E and Igigi = foe or an Anunnaki = friend. this is the cryptic question that E told JD to ask her/him self.

  • 05.01.2004 12:37 PM PDT
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Opps sorry for the double post. the first one didn't show up right away.

  • 05.01.2004 12:38 PM PDT
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I'm kinda thinking that E is Ingigi too Jackass, because in the real epic of Gilgamesh, E is first gilgamesh's enemy and then his friend. In this story E has retold the epic in the opposite light. also aboradr the Lebanon, E first was JD's friend and then after the change seems to be an enemy now. the opposite of the real epic of G is the answer to this question of friend or foe. So new Enkidu AI = foe. anyone disagree?

  • 05.01.2004 12:42 PM PDT
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Posted by: Tartarus
there is some side debate going on here about wether or not the forerunners are friendly or not. I think that they are more friendly to the flood than they are to humans or any other sentient life. why would they preserve some flood on the halo and yet make it kill everything else. Remember, the halo(s) have been set off before (hinted at by 343GS).

If the forerunners ( who knows what form they take and are either gone now or hidding) are powerful and beyond us, who are we to them but ants. simple little ants that carry on our ways and are meaningless if destoyed. the Flood, however, were quite special to them. they saved and preserved them, studied them. Perhaps the Flood were god-like to the forerunners.

Well Tartarus, us humans (considering you are one) have preserved deadly diseases before (namely smallpox) but that does not mean we are more friendly to them than say, monkeys. And if you considered something god-like would you stick it in a cage and in case it ever got out destroy all sentient life?

  • 05.01.2004 12:53 PM PDT
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Perhaps this is just a question of morals. Everyone seems to agree this is an AI gone mad, perhaps merged with some entity like 343 GS, so mabe it is simply asking whoever it is talking to a question it is continually asking itself: is whatever it's doing good or bad? After all, since these AIs are images of someone else, they too would have morals, or would have at another time.

  • 05.01.2004 1:06 PM PDT
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I roamed the forests as I wished after Enlil starved the gods

While I was looking up some more information on this, I stumbled across something interesting. Seems that in ancient Babylon mythology, Enlil was the god of the winds as well as the head god and called "king of the earth." He also once sent a Cataclysm to earth and released the monster Labbu on mankind to obliderate them. Our dear AI friend E. seems to be a great follower of this god. So this makes me wonder if Labbu was the flood. Certainly would make sense. And Labbu is a sea monster (figurively tying into the flood) and is associated with the galaxy.

Nothing you didn't already know here, but i though I'd share. May come in handy later.

  • 05.01.2004 1:10 PM PDT
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Siliva, Yes i am human and in fact, I'm your father but that is besides the point.

now its hard to understand you post exactly as the grammer is all screwed up, but it sounds like you just argued against yourself and you don't even realize it.

Humans do save deadly disaeses to study them for a cure or as a specimen thats been eradicated like small-pox (still small pox was saved for study just in case it resurfaced again). Perhaps the Foreruunners were doing the same thing with the flood, I don't know. Here is the difference though, if the disease that we humans are holding on to gets loose and overwhelms us or some other animal species, we do not wipe out that species to stop the threat. Humans generally care for the "higher" form of life similar to ourselvs over the "lower" form of life that is more different like a disease. Now if the forerunners are willing to wipe us completely out and yet, save the flood, then they must rever the flood as a more meaningful species compared to whatever they are. Understand the logic? We are unimportant to them or replaceable...

[Edited on 5/1/2004 1:25:00 PM]

  • 05.01.2004 1:23 PM PDT
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About the ethics of the Forerunner...

In Babylonian and Greek myth, the stories about
the great flood have to do with quarrels between
Gods on whether or not humans should live. I think the
Forerunner were divided on whether or not the human race
should be allowed to live, and the debate sparked
a civil war. The end result of the war was a victory
for the sect of Forerunner that want humanity dead,
(Ingigi) but the "good" (Anunaki) had the halos, and
were successful in capturing the flood, setting off
the halo,and restarting civilization.(Think about
Noah's Ark) I say the Ingigi Forerunner were victorious
b/c the good forerunner are no where insight, and the
myth's all point to the capture or death of the Anunaki.
Along the same lines, the covenant seem to be
followers of the Ingigi, (foe Gods) and would follow with
the idea of the Anunaki(friend Gods) being chained.

There has been a lot of good discussion on Babyl-
onian myth, but the greek has just as much insight
into the halo story. I posted a very in depth analysis
of the Greek flood story in this thread,and how it
could relate to halo, so if you're interested, read it.





  • 05.01.2004 1:28 PM PDT
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Hey all...

Just to tie up some loose ends:

In my research, I've found that the Igigi are, in facts, the heavenly counterparts to the Anunnaku. The Anunnaku (this is from google research, so we're probably going to get different answers on this) are apparently the seven judges of the underworld. That would mean, if this is the context that was meant, that Igigi would be friend, and Anunnaku would be the enemy. Just...an added thought. (This was actually said before, I believe, it just seems that it was ignored.)

Also, Shamhat was a priestess of Ishtar, and "civilized" Enkidu by making love to him for six days and seven nights. ("I haven't felt like this since the week Shamhat and I... but that would be gossiping, too.")

I don't know about the rest of you, but this is sounding a lot like Durandal (who, just for an additional Marathon connection, calls himself "Gilgamesh" at one point). The same sarcastic humour, talking to his "pet" soldier, on his ultimate power trip. Durandal often talks about how well "his" cyborg can fight and kill. (I know, I know...the two games aren't officially related...they just have some interesting similarities.) Durandal also talks about his sentamentality for the cyborg, that he keeps him alive for reasons that he's not entirely sure of. Just seems like a similar...tone, I guess.

Ah, the joys of speculation.

  • 05.01.2004 1:33 PM PDT
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Ok i know that this is a new and really out their idea. But someone just said that in these storys it is the Gods that are debating on whether the humans should live or die. We know that now E. is something else either totally new or taken partly over. So if E. is an AI could it be possible the the forerunners began built these AI and then the AI turned on them. I dont really know about this so please tell me what you think it is just an idea.

  • 05.01.2004 1:44 PM PDT
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Fatal pigeon. you are totally wrong about the Ingigi and Anunnaki. please go back and read the previous post, especially mine, to see how I deducted that one was good over the other. thanks.

  • 05.01.2004 1:46 PM PDT

gamer tag: CrazyChinchilla

Well i have to disagree with you humans have been known to put down and lock away from their minds certain stuff right now they are locking away God and sinning a lot

  • 05.01.2004 1:47 PM PDT
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did anyone notice this?

On the letter titled Shore Left, enkidu says, "Initial surveys show that the Covenant frigate we encountered has excavated a large circular portion of the day-side glacier. At the very center of the dig is a metallic signature that we cannot recognise."

Now in the post Its a Cold Day in Hell. Endiku says while talking about Frigid, "Watch out for the ice. A bit slippery, and you're never sure what's frozen in there."

what was frozen in the ice that the Covies took? It left a metal signature whatever it was. Could it be another one of those strange crystals. Or maybe it was some "being" frozen in the ice. Maybe the "being" that has left the riddle for us. Maybe a forerunner or maybe another monitor. What do you guys think?

  • 05.01.2004 1:55 PM PDT
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Tartarus-

I DID read your post, several times in fact. Like I said, that is simply what I found, but our results obviously differ. I meant to provide an alternate possibility, not to offend you. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

  • 05.01.2004 2:04 PM PDT
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Good eye.

I think it's more evidence that its a forerunner
installation. The Covies plunder Forerunner
sites to get those crystals and probably a lot
more we don't know about. The most interesting
comment to me is "Watch out for the ice. A bit slippery,
and you're never sure what's frozen in there."
As for what Enkidu is talking about, I can only
speculate. Maybe it's that new enemy that Frankie
was talking about.

EDIT: Frankie said character, not enemy.


[Edited on 5/1/2004 2:11:07 PM]

  • 05.01.2004 2:08 PM PDT
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Hey bloody pigeon, no offense taken. this is all friendly speculation.

How though did you come to the conclusion that the Ingigi were good to humans and the Anunnaki were bad to humans.

In my post did I make it clear enough how i concluded that one was more friendly to Gilgamesh over the other and how that hinted at wether or not this new enkidu was a friend or not?

  • 05.01.2004 2:08 PM PDT
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Posted by: eMCee
Good eye.

I think it's more evidence that its a forerunner
installation. The Covies plunder Forerunner
sites to get those crystals and probably a lot
more we don't know about. The most interesting
comment to me is "Watch out for the ice. A bit slippery,
and you're never sure what's frozen in there."
As for what Enkidu is talking about, I can only
speculate. Maybe it's that new enemy that Frankie
was talking about.


what i find interesting about that passage that you requoted is the tone of Enkidu. We have been talking about whether the new Enkidu is friend or foe. In this passage you kind of have to wonder, is Enkidu trying to warn you because he/she cares about your safety, or is he/she threatening you like there may be some kind of misfortunate "accident" that really won't be an accident, but instead the murder of you by Enkidu?

  • 05.01.2004 2:13 PM PDT
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-Tartarus

The metal sig was supposed to be a building, remember? And of course they enter it. So the ice would be in the building then, sort of goes with the idea of ice and debris building up over millenia in old forerunner structures.

Some one was debating over what was sending the messages, it must be the original AI from the UNSC ship, or else it has been absorbed somehow because it is still sending messages to the ship but just seems to have gone mad. I know this was said before, but somebody was asking a few posts ago.

  • 05.01.2004 2:15 PM PDT
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Tartarus -- Yea, you made it clear.

Where I was looking, the two (The story of Enkidu and the Anunnaku) were unrelated. It simply stated that "Annunaki were seven judges of hell (nether world), children of the god Anu, who also sat before the throne of Ereshkigal (the wife of Nergal)." A few more web pages said that the Igigi were the heavenly counterparts, the judges of heaven. I was thinking more in terms of common thinking where heaven=good, and underworld=bad.

This article I'm looking at also states that it is Sumerian myth, but Babylonian and Greek all shared many similarities. Perhaps the Sumerians hadn't heard of Enkidu, but the Babylonians had their own story of him interacting with the common gods of the time? I dunno.

[Edited on 5/1/2004 2:17:00 PM]

  • 05.01.2004 2:16 PM PDT
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Perhaps Enkidu is just debating morals, and because it seems to have gone mad, the debate is working its way into what is written to JD?

  • 05.01.2004 2:17 PM PDT
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Posted by: Joyeuse
It's from an unformatted terminal in Marathon 2, on the level Kill Your Television. Here's the full text:

"I have been Roland, Beowulf, Achilles, Gilgamesh.
I have been called a hundred names and will be called a
thousand more before the world goes dim and cold.
I am hero. She has been nameless since our birth,
a constant adversary caring for nothing but my ruin,
a sword drenched in my blood forever, my greatest and
only love. She is the dark. O Lethe, enemy and lover, without
whom my very existence would be pathetic and vulgar!
Our relationship is complex and perhaps eternal.
We met once in the garden at the beginning of the world
and, unaware of our twin destinies, we matched stares
across a dry fountain. And I recall her smiling at me before
she devoured the lawn and trees with a translucent blue flame
and tore flagstones from the path and hurled them into the
sky, screaming my sins. I powder a granite monument in a
soundless flash, showering the grass with molten drops of
its gold inlay, sending smoking chips of stone
skipping into the fog. She splinters an ancient oak
with a force that takes my breath and hurls me to the ground.
She lea% [leaves?]"

There is no indication who the two people in the text are, but there's been a lot of speculation over at marathon.bungie.org/story and the HBO Halo story page. There's some Halo connections in this terminal - namely, "she splinters the ancient oak", which has been thought to be the Pillar of Autumn. I can't claim any credit for this; I'm just pulling out stuff that I remember from reading the Halo and Marathon story pages.


.

i don't know if this has been said over at the hbo site but this seems to be blatantly reffering to cortana, she is a sword drenched in my blood in marathon aren't the ai reffered to or named by swords, and a female ai would be cortana
where you originally see cortana it almost looks like shes coming from a dry fountain, and around her base it resembles blue flame when she comes out of it, also the pillar of autumn splintering the oak reference

  • 05.01.2004 2:26 PM PDT
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Maybe it to do with another ring like halo but somewere else

  • 05.01.2004 2:27 PM PDT