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This topic has moved here: Subject: Rampant Speculation
  • Subject: Rampant Speculation
Subject: Rampant Speculation
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Okay. I found a link to a myth about the taming
of Enkidu at Rampancy.net, and found some
very interesting tie-ins to our buddy Durandal.
You guys may disagree, but before you do, please
read the myth and tell me what you think. First
of all, There is a comment in the myth that Enkidu
had feminine features. In Marathon, there was
a terminal where Durandal casually mentions the
fact that he is often mistaken to be female, or have
feminine qualities, and calls someone (I forget who)
a fruitcake. A petty connection, but a valid one in
my opinion. Second, in the myth, Enkidu was born
wild and created in the image of Anu, which is the
Zeus of Sumero-Babylonian Myth. In the terminal
message, the A.I. Enkidu says his was once wild,
and will be again. A line in the text reffering to Enkidu's
domestication really caught my eye. After being seduced into
the civilized life (which can also be interpreted as "urbanity")
Enkidu's seducer says "You have become wise Enkidu,
you have become like a god." Durandal was obsessed
with escapingthe closure of the universe, and in doing
so becoming "like god" as he put it. If Durandal was
successful in escape, then he may have been bored, and
is now "waking up."

Well, there it is, my theory on the speaker. The main problem
i see is the fact that he somehow got onto a ship that he may
never have been on. Although someone did mention that it
could be a wireless connection.


[Edited on 4/27/2004 7:38:18 PM]

  • 04.27.2004 7:13 PM PDT
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i would not be supprised if this was Durandal. those theories make sense, and as you mentioned, at the end of the text transmission it says, "Remote Engaged"

this could be in refrence to a remote entity writing the terminal message.

or could 343GS be a remote contrlled machine? (by durandal?)

  • 04.27.2004 7:21 PM PDT
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January 30, 2004 (Warthog's Day)
The Master Chief emerged from his code. After seeing his dynamically lit realtime shadow, he went back for 9 more months of development.


Behold the power of the Originals, the Gods Axeone-Neurone.

These terminal entries were made 12 days before the fall of Reach and over month before the MC arives on Halo. If 343GS has had contact with us before he should have been more familiar with both us and the Covenant while we were on Halo. If 343GS would have been on a UNSC ship before he never would have been so excited about have access to human history during "The Maw."

-Edit-
By the fall of Reach i mean the Covenant attack and not the book.

[Edited on 4/27/2004 8:07:02 PM]

  • 04.27.2004 7:42 PM PDT
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touche'

do the dates predate the release of cortana? that woudl be interesting.

it seems that these terminals are parallel to our halo story, and not part of . . . only to come into effect in H2?

ill have to think

  • 04.27.2004 8:03 PM PDT
Subject: Enkidu - Cortana Letters Revisted?
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all of this does resemble the cortana letters. I even looked and the second one was more straight forward just like these new Enkidu letters. i think that we can all conclude that these are real.
Reasons:
1) Bungie hasn't denied involvement.
2) The resemblence to the cortana letters
3) Who would go all through this elaborate plan and then put "fanfict" in the source code? Its a red herring.

However, what the heck is the marathon direct connection to halo? how could the characters from marathon end up in halo? Aren't the dates the same. I mean the two games would have to be from two corresponding dimensions to have have characters from marathon exsist in halo at the same time. Is everyone sure that the connections to marathon just aren't simple references and nothing more?

  • 04.27.2004 9:03 PM PDT
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January 30, 2004 (Warthog's Day)
The Master Chief emerged from his code. After seeing his dynamically lit realtime shadow, he went back for 9 more months of development.


Behold the power of the Originals, the Gods Axeone-Neurone.

Marthon the ship launched form Mars on 2472. Then the ship travels for 300 years and the game starts on 2772.

The timeline is blank between 2472 and 2611 coincidentally when Halo takes place. Also there is a Marathon class ship in the UNSC fleet (three times the size of the PoA).

  • 04.27.2004 9:10 PM PDT
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Ahem - New stuff on Ekidu page posted. Check it out. Stuff about Captains and smoke lights. Fascinating.

  • 04.27.2004 10:15 PM PDT
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Incognito7, we have also noted the new page early this morning. thanks for the heads up though : )

So Hewig, do you think that this duradel or whoever from marathon is 343 GS, or do you think that the duradel character was used as a model for 343 GS? Please explain to me more how the two timelines can coexsist and work together.

  • 04.27.2004 10:36 PM PDT
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There's a lot here, and I'm lazy, so pardon if this has been discussed before. Now that Alex Seropian is moving off to form Wideload, is there a much easier explanation? IE: All the lines related to old games celebrating Bungie's history, the Marathon theme covering how they "hit it big" with the franchise they're most known for (marathon, and now Halo), and that maybe story import is actually only a fraction of the meaning of Enkidu?

  • 04.27.2004 10:58 PM PDT
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gspawn,

We tossed this around but then shot it down. The first interview with Alex posted at HBO, has him denying anything to do with it. On top of that I'm sure that the UNSC logo and all the other info belongs to and is copy-righted to Bungie. Why would they allow him to use it when it doesn't belong to him anymore? Furthur more we also decided that if bungie wasn't involved, they'd have denied all responsibility and sqelched the site. This is to do the same thing that the Cortana Letters did for Halo, to give the fans something and to stir up more excitement for the release of Halo 2. Basically, Its 99.9% real from Bungie.

  • 04.27.2004 11:05 PM PDT
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January 30, 2004 (Warthog's Day)
The Master Chief emerged from his code. After seeing his dynamically lit realtime shadow, he went back for 9 more months of development.


Behold the power of the Originals, the Gods Axeone-Neurone.

Posted by: Tartarus
So Hewig, do you think that this duradel or whoever from marathon is 343 GS, or do you think that the duradel character was used as a model for 343 GS? Please explain to me more how the two timelines can coexsist and work together.


To based on current knowledge Enkidu must be a human based AI. I like one theory I saw. The speaker who introduces them selves and signs friend of a friend. What if that speaker is a different AI possibly from the Covenant ship?

Marathon story page and Halo story page have timelines listed at bungie.org.

[color="white"]Highlights of my particular interest[/color]
Marathon uses Mjolnir Mark IV armor -- 2472
Halo uses Mjolnir Mark V armor -- 2525
Halo 2 uses Mjolnir Mark VI armor -- 2552


People keep claiming of time conflicts but I don't see them. Everything we know about the Halo universe takes place between 2494 to 2552, inside the Marathon time lapse.

The main difference is Marathon's goverenment is the United Earth Sapce Council (UESC) and Halo's government is the United Nations Sapce Command (UNSC). To me they could have just changed the name of the government, but continued to use the same symbol.

Also the reason Marathon can take place in the future but have lesser technology is that they left before faster than light speed engines were available. They traveled for 300 years, but only made it 100 light years from Sol.

  • 04.27.2004 11:28 PM PDT
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I wanted to mention this - before I look into it too deeply and prejustice readers with my theorys - I've heard Enkidu described as a "bull-man" on some sites about him, interesting Theseus killed a Minotaur who was a half man half bull creature - what does the reference to Theseus mean?


Also I'm a (relative) newcomer to bungie having started with Halo. I was going to post a few links - the Epic of Gilgamesh, Cortana's letters etc for those not up on the background info
if you have any links you think are relevant.. please post them for the un-informed...

  • 04.27.2004 11:51 PM PDT
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I've done a bit of thinking and I have a few ideas (don't worry I am as suprised as you are!)

1)
I was sentenced into darkness before Theseus found his foe.
I was killed before my home was scourged by western winds of war.

- Enkidu has been described as a "Bull-man" like the Minotaur
- Theseus killed the Minotaur
- If Enkidu is writing this (he/she/it wrote the prologue) Enkidu is the Minotaur and was sentenced into darkness (the Labyrinth the Minotaur was kept in) then killed by Theseus before the Gulf/Terrorism wars waged by the West on Enkidu's "birthplace" Modernday Iraq

2)
My understanding is that
- Enkidu was created the gods to be Gilgamesh's equal
- Gilgamesh was a very powerful man possibly half god

if you look at this in the context of these messages (assuming Enkidu is the Author) Enkidu may have be created by the gods (I believe the forerunners have been described as Gods) to be the equal of a God-like man called Gilgamesh (who else but the MC) - Enkidu and Gilgamesh became friends and battled against "Monsters" (Covenant or Flood) before they angered the gods and Enkidu was killed.

these are just theorys and basic ones at that - love to hear your thoughts about them...




[Edited on 4/28/2004 12:41:49 AM]

  • 04.28.2004 12:27 AM PDT
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Posted by: GOD Halo Fan
I've done a bit of thinking and I have a few ideas (don't worry I am as suprised as you are!)

1)
I was sentenced into darkness before Theseus found his foe.
I was killed before my home was scourged by western winds of war.

- Enkidu has been described as a "Bull-man" like the Minotaur
- Theseus killed the Minotaur
- If Enkidu is writing this (he/she/it wrote the prologue) Enkidu is the Minotaur and was sentenced into darkness (the Labyrinth the Minotaur was kept in) then killed by Theseus before the Gulf/Terrorism wars waged by the West on Enkidu's "birthplace" Modernday Iraq

2)
My understanding is that
- Enkidu was created the gods to be Gilgamesh's equal
- Gilgamesh was a very powerful man possibly half god

if you look at this in the context of these messages (assuming Enkidu is the Author) Enkidu may have be created by the gods (I believe the forerunners have been described as Gods) to be the equal of a God-like man called Gilgamesh (who else but the MC) - Enkidu and Gilgamesh became friends and battled against "Monsters" (Covenant or Flood) before they angered the gods and Enkidu was killed.

these are just theorys and basic ones at that - love to hear your thoughts about them...





Did you read 1 single post in this entire thread?

  • 04.28.2004 12:52 AM PDT
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'course - I read all of them...

I know my theorys don't tie into everyone else's - that why I posted them - to give you something to think about

  • 04.28.2004 1:52 AM PDT
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just posting few links to relevant sites

Epic of Gilgamesh (full version - quite long)

Summary of events surrounding Cortana Letters

  • 04.28.2004 4:40 AM PDT

And yet another terminal is up!

Clicky here!

- Reiginko

  • 04.28.2004 6:09 AM PDT
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The new terminal is definitely aimed at a specific individual, located in Cryobay B.

"In the meantime, you and your team have been ordered to finish reviving the remaining crew and to collect survival gear."

My first impression was that the AI was speaking to a Spartan team, but if they're going to go about reviving the rest of the remaining crew, that indicates that a large portion of the crew was in the deep freeze. Why would a large number of a warship's crew be in cryo?

One possibility is that the Lebanon is a colony ship that set out soon after the Marathon did. That would explain the older-style terminal interface and the crew being in cryo, though not the reference to the ship's Slipspace drive. The Marathon had to make it's trip at sub-light speeds. According to the dates on the terminal, this takes place only 80 years after the launch of the Marathon. It's entirely possible that the intervening years saw the discovery of FTL travel.

Claiming to be old, epic, an ancient force sounds to me to be typical rampant AI speak. But he did say that he was once wild, and would be rampant again - perhaps this is a revived Traxus IV?

For those who haven't played Marathon, Traxus IV was the first AI to go spectacularly rampant (there had been others on Earth net, but Traxus IV was the first one that was mentioned by name). He engulfed the entire Martian net before he was stopped - by pulling the power to the entire bloody thing. And he never got completely scrubbed from the system, either. If someone decided to force Traxus IV back to normal AI operation, choosing "Enkidu" as a new name makes perfect sense. And also makes sense out of what Enkidu says, "Once I was wild. Wild shall I be once again."

  • 04.28.2004 7:51 AM PDT

I don't think the Lebanon was launched just after the Marathon. Firstly, the Marathon was a UESG ship; the Lebanon is from the UNSC. I have a feeling that there wouldn't have been such a big change in government in that short time. Also, the Marathon was launched a long time before the Halo story starts, so presumably the Lebanon would be extremely out of date by 2552; at least the AI would have been replaced.

Also, I don't think that Enkidu is Traxus, the main reason being: why? Why choose Traxus when there are other more familiar rampant AIs running around.

Finally, this theory goes against the whole "Marathon and Halo being in different universes" thing. Just because the Marathon timeline has a convenient hole doesn't mean that's when Halo takes place. If this were to be a Marathon AI, it would have to be Durandal/Thoth, since at least that entity possibly exited the universe in which Marathon is set, and thus could have entered the Halo universe.

- Reiginko

  • 04.28.2004 8:08 AM PDT
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I know the official stance on the Marathon/Halo universes... that convenient hole in the Marathon timeline is just too tempting, sometimes. There isn't a real reason for it to be Traxus; I just thought to throw it out there because it fight a bit more snugly than I expected (which is to say, not a lot).

Good point about Durandal/Thoth, however.

  • 04.28.2004 9:17 AM PDT
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January 30, 2004 (Warthog's Day)
The Master Chief emerged from his code. After seeing his dynamically lit realtime shadow, he went back for 9 more months of development.


Behold the power of the Originals, the Gods Axeone-Neurone.

Posted by: Reiginko
Finally, this theory goes against the whole "Marathon and Halo being in different universes" thing.


Could someone give one example of how the universes of the two games are different?

  • 04.28.2004 10:42 AM PDT
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Posted by: GOD Halo Fan
'course - I read all of them...

I know my theorys don't tie into everyone else's - that why I posted them - to give you something to think about


Huh? Your whole post was a summary of what's been posted. Your theorys don't tie in, they were straight jacked from other people. There wasn't a single orginal thought in that entire post that I quoted.

  • 04.28.2004 11:16 AM PDT
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Bring the Noise,

Yo lets just ignore the people that aren't contributing to this thread. He obviously hasn't read the whole thing. Lets just stay on subject and try to unravel the mystery here.

What are your thoughts on the new letter? Is it simply straight foreward or is there more here that no one has noticed?

  • 04.28.2004 11:28 AM PDT
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Perhaps Endiku is a new AI made by Ackerson? Perhaps the team he is talking to is S-III"s? I dunno, just a brief thought. I don't have long to type, I have to leave soon.

  • 04.28.2004 11:32 AM PDT
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So is Bungie implicating that cortana will turn on MC? (they mentioned in the making of Halo2 that cortana did strap a bomb to his back....)

  • 04.28.2004 11:36 AM PDT