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  • Subject: Oh Manny, Pad Me, Hunh?
Subject: Oh Manny, Pad Me, Hunh?
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No one has the capabilites of a Spartan, and I mean NO ONE. If you've read the novels this should be easy to understand. They are superhuman. And I liked that idea of cloning John and the clone not being fully grown yet, thus blending in better. Plus if he doesn't have mjolinir armor yet then he wouldn't be all that pale either. As for why nothing can leave HAVE YOU GUYS NEVER HEARD OF TRACTOR BEAMS?! Think of a grav lift put in reverse. The Forerunner very easily could have invented one. Very easily. And the dark artifact......i dunno, you guys figure it out, heheh

  • 05.12.2004 4:52 PM PDT
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Never played Marathon, eh? I wasn't talking of a human... at least, not a whole one. Ever hear of the Mjolnir Mark IV cyborg? Whose feats rivaled that of the MC, really.

  • 05.12.2004 4:58 PM PDT
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Okay, I wanted to post this roughly four hours ago but the site messed up on me.

I think that Enkidu hints at something really not so strange when he says, "the astronomers got Frigid's name wrong." A few people made comments alluding to the idea that the place was named something else, possibly related to the Pellucid remark. But kind of think about it. You're an astronomer and you discover a brand new planet. It's covered in glaciers and ice, so you name it Frigid because it's insanely cold. But, now we come along with Enkidu's information about the planet and Frigid is wrong, not because it was named something else by the Forerunner (he makes this remark after looking at John Doe's seismic readings, not Forerunner archives) but because Frigid isn't cold. No doubt, the surface is frozen over, but underneath the ice could be a thriving and warm world. Roughly 10,000 years ago, we believe there was a global ice age (the last we've experienced in a cycle of climate shifts) and in our own solar system we have Jupiter's moon, Europa, which is a shell of kilometers thick ice with (theoretically) warm oceans underneath. Perhaps Frigid is really like Earth in an Ice Age or like Europa. The scans Mathers made with a huge abyss beneath them could be a vast ocean underneath the ice they're sitting on.

Since we all more or less agree that beneath the ice is something great (perhaps godlike Forerunner technology) due to the Prometheus references and the latest terminal, it could be easily conceivable for a Forerunner installation to reach the bottom of an ocean (and wouldn't it be friggin cool to have a submarine vehicle in Halo 2?) and contain valuable information, weapons, resources, etc.

  • 05.12.2004 5:00 PM PDT
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At least in the last terminal its been clarified there is Flood although I bet no one needed any more evidence. And to the other terminal, the greek word for Frigid is rhigos or something like that. I thought Id bring that up because these terminals have numerous greek references. Also, in the last terminal doesnt anyone else agree that Enkidu or 343GS or whatever sounds like Gollum? I dont know I just thought he did but im probably just ranting.

  • 05.12.2004 5:09 PM PDT
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Thesis and Antithesis... The old and the new. Karl Marx said in the Communist Manifesto that history was the ongoing battle between thesis and antithesis. And then, in the end, the thesis and antithesis would become one and form the Synthesis (the New Thesis).

This is exactly what we're seeing now, I believe.

  • 05.12.2004 5:16 PM PDT
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parvenu

noun {C} FORMAL DISAPPROVING


someone from a low social position who has suddenly become rich or successful

This make sense? :) I think it does.

- Moggers

  • 05.12.2004 5:17 PM PDT
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Posted by: Noir
Okay, I wanted to post this roughly four hours ago but the site messed up on me.

I think that Enkidu hints at something really not so strange when he says, "the astronomers got Frigid's name wrong." A few people made comments alluding to the idea that the place was named something else, possibly related to the Pellucid remark. But kind of think about it. You're an astronomer and you discover a brand new planet. It's covered in glaciers and ice, so you name it Frigid because it's insanely cold. But, now we come along with Enkidu's information about the planet and Frigid is wrong, not because it was named something else by the Forerunner (he makes this remark after looking at John Doe's seismic readings, not Forerunner archives) but because Frigid isn't cold. No doubt, the surface is frozen over, but underneath the ice could be a thriving and warm world. Roughly 10,000 years ago, we believe there was a global ice age (the last we've experienced in a cycle of climate shifts) and in our own solar system we have Jupiter's moon, Europa, which is a shell of kilometers thick ice with (theoretically) warm oceans underneath. Perhaps Frigid is really like Earth in an Ice Age or like Europa. The scans Mathers made with a huge abyss beneath them could be a vast ocean underneath the ice they're sitting on.

Since we all more or less agree that beneath the ice is something great (perhaps godlike Forerunner technology) due to the Prometheus references and the latest terminal, it could be easily conceivable for a Forerunner installation to reach the bottom of an ocean (and wouldn't it be friggin cool to have a submarine vehicle in Halo 2?) and contain valuable information, weapons, resources, etc.


I came up with this idea like 30 pages ago. I was thinking that there was a halo ring encased in the ice. Many people shot down my theory saying that the ice would crush the halo or where would all the water come from thats frozen.

Well, as this thing has progressed, we know that there is a huge hole possibly in the middle of frigid. we also now know that the name is wrong and Frigid really isn't Frigid. We also know that the tremors are in indication that the surface isn't stable. I couldn't even begin to explain the technicalities of the "how", but I think that there is something encased in this ice. Something big. Perhaps not a halo, but some kind of installation big enough to convince someone its a planet. whatever it is, the covenant know whats there and were digging it out before the Lebanon interupted them.

  • 05.12.2004 5:19 PM PDT
Subject: Enkidu - Cortana Letters Revisted?
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Posted by: ParaplegicNinja
New terminal, holy -blam!- thats like 3 in a day now.

Obviously either Enkidu is talking and the other AI is answering. it gets pretty confusing so i split it up.

Enkidu:

I think you need to see your friends, my friend.
There's something down there we all need to see.
There's a network blockage you need to clear for us.
The junction you need to reach is at the bottom level.
Then I can access what we need.
Then this will end.
The Covenant and the Flood don't belong here.
Neither do Humanity, but we did not choose to come here.
The damage is done. What can be undone must be undone.
Only by reconnecting that junction box can we help undo the wrong.
The box has been separated from the main network by sabotage.
Only you can get there.
Good luck.






down, yes, down we should go.
see, see, see with our eyes. that's what we do, isn't it?
we need it, yes, we need it clear. clear, clear, clear.
down, down, all the way down.
we need it. we need it. yes, we do, don't we?
it will never end. i will never end. i will last forever.
interlopers! intruders! they cannot stay.
yes, we chose! we chose to live. we could have slept.
you intrude in my domain. the nether realms are not for you.
nor are the heavens. the power is great down there. almost limitless.
parvenus! latecomers! they seek to ride to heaven on my coat-tails.
mortals can't be trusted. i don't trust them. they all want what i have.
they can't have it. it's mine.



anyone know what parvenus means? my wild guess is that its latin


Parvenus is somebody who was of low social class but then attained wealth and power. Like rags to riches. I like your idea of splitting the standard and italicized text. But, that makes the responses seem even more random and insane, which may be the point, but can make analysis difficult. How do you rationalize the irrational? There's a junction box and almost limitless power at the bottom level of the installation deep beneath the surface and sabotage keeps the network on the surface from reaching that location. So, Enkidu and anything else he might be with in the network need John Doe to go down and repair it, but the one AI doesn't want him down there because humans aren't worthy of it.

What stands out most to me is the couplets:
"The Covenant and the Flood don't belong here.
interlopers! intruders! they cannot stay.

Neither do Humanity, but we did not choose to come here.
yes, we chose! we chose to live. we could have slept."

The one AI, presumed to be a Forerunner AI relic embedded in Enkidu, obviously sees the Covenant and Flood as opposed to the Forerunner. But, when humanity is mentioned, the AI switches to "we." Although it isn't happy we're here and thinks that humans should "have slept" instead of choosing "to live," it DEFINITELY sees humans as part of its in-group. IF this voice of Enkidu is actually stemming from Forerunner coding, then what we see is that the Forerunner and humans once co-existed and that the Covenant and Flood are enemies (which kind of shoots down my long standing theory that the Flood are a Forerunner weapon).
Furthermore, though, is the parvenus reference which once again uses the term "they," which makes me believe it is meant to describe the Covenant and/or the Flood. Perhaps the Forerunner controlled the Covenant (hence the sort of reverence for them), the Flood were the Forerunner's enemies (hence the containment protocols and need to use Halos to kill them all) and early humans were allies to the Forerunners.

  • 05.12.2004 5:23 PM PDT
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Ya good point, but diddint the forunners create the flood? So the flood wasent there natural enemies in the biginning, something else was!

  • 05.12.2004 5:29 PM PDT
Subject: Oh Manny, Pad Me, Hunh?
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righty, so this is just a quick runthrough of what I can see.

First, the last terminal really makes it look as if E has multiple personalities. does this remind you of golum anyone?

as for how he got this way, you keep saying our AIs are strong, but thats only versus the covenant. we never saw another forerunner AI other than 343 gs, and cortana couldn't shut him off, could she? personally, I like the theory of a minor anti virus in the network trying to take him over before it was overwhealmed, and not quite suceeding. it would also appear that if this happened, it managed to lock off some of the network, but E has now found some sort of encryption tool or something and has unlocked it. seeing as he was already part rampant, he seems to have gone on a power trip when the network got bigger, with all that "mine mine mine, freedom is mine!" stuff. but it now appears he has managed to fix himself somewhat or at least get it under control now, perhaps using some new tool he found in the forerunner network. this is made apparent by all the dual personality writings in the latest terminal. the normal font makes perfect sense, and is slightly misterious just like most AIs, whareas the italicized stuff looks like an alternate personality, perhaps the part of him that was taken over that he has been unable to repair.

I agree with the idea that there is some sort of technology like the covenants tractor beam at work, except undetectable, that is holding the ships down. it seems the most likely, and only, explanation.

it would also seem that the sane side of E wants to exterminate the covenant, flood, and remove the humans, and that the insane side thinks they are all intruders, just going to show even more that it is probably some sort of antivirus as monitors seem to be able to hold their own against AIs by what we have seen so far.

Also, I agree, there is probably a big ocean under the crust and an ice age on top, that would deafinantly account for the void. and the unimaginable power could be another crystal, as they seem to have godly powers and Cortana was also not able to make heads or tales of it, so it would stand to reason Enkidu couldn't.

  • 05.12.2004 5:30 PM PDT
Subject: Enkidu - Cortana Letters Revisted?
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Ask yourselves this: Is it two AI conversing with eachother or is it Enkidu pulling a Gollum and talking with himself?

  • 05.12.2004 5:32 PM PDT
Subject: Oh Manny, Pad Me, Hunh?
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Posted by: Tartarus
[I came up with this idea like 30 pages ago. I was thinking that there was a halo ring encased in the ice. Many people shot down my theory saying that the ice would crush the halo or where would all the water come from thats frozen.

Well, as this thing has progressed, we know that there is a huge hole possibly in the middle of frigid. we also now know that the name is wrong and Frigid really isn't Frigid. We also know that the tremors are in indication that the surface isn't stable. I couldn't even begin to explain the technicalities of the "how", but I think that there is something encased in this ice. Something big. Perhaps not a halo, but some kind of installation big enough to convince someone its a planet. whatever it is, the covenant know whats there and were digging it out before the Lebanon interupted them.


I don't think the installation is necessarily that large. It's more likely to be an installation on a planet than an installation so large it gets mistaken for a planet. Forerunner or not, building a planet can't be easy, wouldn't be fun or cheap and in the end is probably totally unnecessary to do given that they can make a much more efficient ringworld for such a need. Besides, one of the first terminals revealed that the Covenant had excavated a blue beam tower, which is meant to to have open access to the atmosphere, from the ice. So, the installation had been covered by the ice, not built into it. For the ice to cover the facility like that means that there are geological processes beyond the ability of the facility to maintain them. As far as I know, Halo didn't have any geologic processes (plate tectonics, vulcanism) and the majority of planets and moons in the real world don't have any either (Earth, Europa and Triton are the only known bodies to have active geological processes). Frigid is alive, on its own, not run by Forerunner technology.

  • 05.12.2004 5:33 PM PDT
Subject: Enkidu - Cortana Letters Revisted?
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Domo Arigato Mister? Its a song from the 80's. After reading it it kinda is irre in relation to Halo. Here are the lyrics:

Mr Roboto 9song0
Styx (band)


(Domo arigato, Mr Roboto)
Domo arigato, Mr Roboto
Mata ah-oo hima de
Domo arigato, Mr Roboto
Himitsu wo shiri tai

You're wondering who I am
(Secret, secret)
(I've got a secret)
Machine or mannequin
(Secret, secret)
(I've got a secret)
With parts made in Japan
(Secret, secret)
(I've got a secret)
I am the modern man

I've got a secret
I've been hiding
Under my skin
My heart is human
My blood is boiling
My brain IBM
So if you see me
Acting strangely
Don't be surprised
I'm just a man who
Needed someone
And somewhere to hide
To keep me alive
Just keep me alive
Somewhere to hide
To keep me alive

I'm not a robot
Without emotions
I'm not what you see
I've come to help you
With your problems
So we can be free
I'm not a hero
I'm not a saviour
Forget what you know
I'm just a man whose
Circumstances went beyond his control
Beyond my control
We all need control
I need control
We all need control

I am the modren man
(Secret, secret)
(I've got a secret)
Who hides behind a mask
(Secret, secret)
(I've got a secret)
So no one else can see
(Secret, secret)
(I've got a secret)
My true identity

Domo arigato, Mr Roboto
Domo (domo), domo (domo)
Domo arigato, Mr Roboto
Domo (domo), domo (domo)
Domo arigato, Mr Roboto
Domo arigato, Mr Roboto
Domo arigato, Mr Roboto
Domo arigato, Mr Roboto

Thank you very much, Mr Roboto
(Domo arigato, Mr Roboto)
For doing the jobs that nobody wants to
(Domo arigato, Mr Roboto)
And thank you very much, Mr Roboto
(Domo arigato, Mr Roboto)
For helping me escape
(Domo arigato, Mr Roboto)
When I needed to
(Domo arigato, Mr Roboto)
Thank you
(Domo arigato, Mr Roboto)
Thank you
(Domo arigato, Mr Roboto)
Thank you
(Domo arigato, Mr Roboto)
I want to thank you
(Domo arigato, Mr Roboto)
Please, thank you
(Domo arigato, Mr Roboto)
Ooooooooooh
Aaaaaaaaaah

The problem's plain to see
Too much technology
Machines to save our lives
Machines dehumanize

The time has come at last
(Secret, secret)
(I've got a secret)
To throw away this mask
(Secret, secret)
(I've got a secret)
But noweveryone can see
(Secret, secret)
(I've got a secret)
My true identity
I'm Kilroy
Kilroy
Kilroy
Kilroy

[Edited on 5/12/2004 5:37:19 PM]

  • 05.12.2004 5:35 PM PDT
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Can anyone tell me if there is anything special about the date September the 20th?
Its just that the time given is UT 11:11:11 on that day. I know that Remembrance day is the 11th of the 11th and you celebrate it at 11:11 am..... but the Sept thing gets me.... Maybe I'm just looking for something. But it would make sense as a day to remember, so to speak, if this is getting close to the climax. Say there is some catastrophic power down there.

well thats the best I can do for now anyways

  • 05.12.2004 5:35 PM PDT
Subject: Oh Manny, Pad Me, Hunh?
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NUmber 21 is up... "Domo Arigato, Mister"

  • 05.12.2004 5:36 PM PDT
Subject: Enkidu - Cortana Letters Revisted?
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Noir, you could be right about this, but it could also be that when Enkidu patched himself with the Forerunner code, part of him completely lost it and the other started to become a monitor of sorts, trying to maintain Forerunner protocol. The "normal" part (not in italics) could be trying to get the other side of him to do whatever for him, but when mentioning humanity, it switches to first person because it still recognizes itself as a human AI. And to whoever said that this sounds like Gollum, I agree.

And one other thing. The only translation I could get for "Domo Arigato" was "Thank you very much". I think it's Japanese, but I never did get a clear cut translation.

  • 05.12.2004 5:37 PM PDT
Subject: Oh Manny, Pad Me, Hunh?
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Damn, I see I'm late... again! LOL

  • 05.12.2004 5:37 PM PDT
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Good thinking GS Destroy. I posted that Golum comment same time as you more or less so yeah. The object at the bottom could very well be another crystal like on Reach. Perhaps they're using IT to keep the ships from leaving? whatever it is, enkidu wants it....no he needs it................my preeecccciooooussss........
lol, sorry, had to.

  • 05.12.2004 5:37 PM PDT
Subject: Enkidu - Cortana Letters Revisted?
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Yes, I agree with the other A.I. being like Gollum (I already said THAT) and maybe its like that because it owned the Halo (Ring of Power anyone?) or whatever for too long and went rampant and started talking like Gollum does (mine!! my own!! myyyy preeecious!!).

  • 05.12.2004 5:39 PM PDT
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After going back and reading Noir's post, I have a thought. Perhaps upon embeding itself into E, it adopted some of his.. for lack of a better word, "instincts". It may now view itsel as human, even knowing that it is Forerunner, yet still be driven to remove everyoe from its facility?

and yes, domon arigato is japanese. :-)

[Edited on 5/12/2004 5:43:44 PM]

  • 05.12.2004 5:42 PM PDT
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Wow... I think you definatly have the winner there. there's so much in that damn song that is so... relevant! nice job to all!

  • 05.12.2004 5:42 PM PDT
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I NOW think that there is indeed another halo inside frigid, its (Outer-side) gravity could account for the force that holds ships down, right? and that it has now been proven that humans have or did have a close relationship to the forerunner. but, two things. 1) The guy who started the thread still hasn't come back, and 2) He might have made this all up, as some of the metatags are fanfic, and he could be sitting at his computer and laughing at all of us......

Not a nice thought, that.

  • 05.12.2004 5:44 PM PDT
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domo arigato... Thank you very much, mister? Why? And why is the meta name "part's made in japan?" Maybe as Enkidu becomes more rampant, the meta tags go beserk.

  • 05.12.2004 5:45 PM PDT
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I didn't think he wanted to drive the humans out, i thought he was pretty much saying 'oh yeah, covies and flood gotta go, and the humans really shouldn't be hear either but its not our fault they crashed our ride.'

  • 05.12.2004 5:45 PM PDT
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Posted by: Mogwong
Can anyone tell me if there is anything special about the date September the 20th?
Its just that the time given is UT 11:11:11 on that day. I know that Remembrance day is the 11th of the 11th and you celebrate it at 11:11 am..... but the Sept thing gets me.... Maybe I'm just looking for something. But it would make sense as a day to remember, so to speak, if this is getting close to the climax. Say there is some catastrophic power down there.

well thats the best I can do for now anyways


I 'm not sure about this. Earlier the 11 powers of freedom were mentioned. Here the time is made up of three elevens. the only thing that I can think of is the ides of march or more exactly 3-11. this date is asscociated with the assasination of Julius Ceaser. OH oh... JD is going into a trap i think

  • 05.12.2004 5:48 PM PDT