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This topic has moved here: Subject: the H3 BR is perfectly balanced
  • Subject: the H3 BR is perfectly balanced
Subject: the H3 BR is perfectly balanced

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Posted by: mubox47
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Posted by: disgruntledfan2
Posted by: The EAKLE
Posted by: ODST is a SCAM

and where are your stats to back this
At mid range, an AR will lose to many other weapons. At mid range, snipers will lose to nearly every weapon
The AR is an inaccurate weapon and goes through an entire clip in just over two seconds (15 rounds per second). At a range of about 25m (the edge of a radar) it is slightly inaccurate. It also takes about 20 bullets to kill without a melee. At any range farther than that (id consider that mid range) weapons such as BRs, Carbines, Magnums, Snipers, Rockects, Needlers and Bruteshots all have an advantage. A BR kills in three body shots + one headshot. That is easy within the given range. A Carbine takes six body shots an a head shot. Again, easy in that range. Magnums kill with four shots then a head shot. A little harder because of its innaccuracy, but still rather easy. A sniper can kill in a headshot or two body shots. Harder because if the AR hits you it sill force you out of your scope, but not an impossible shot. Rockets can kill with one shot, and it isn't hard to land at that range. Needlers kill in less then a clip, and due to the massive bullet magnetism it is an extremely easy kill. Bruteshots kill with 5-6 shots, and, once again, it can easily land those in that range.

Your turn.


Your facts are more like estimates. The Brute Shot kills in 4 direct shots. 5-6 shots is if the player misses and hits the floor next to their feet. The AR kills in 16 bullets. That is half a clip. Can you guys please leave the simple arcade weapon balance to Bungie without spewing inaccurate information.
So the AR is a little more powerful than i thought. It still kills in a fraction over a second. And the Bruteshots are actually stronger than i though, making my point more solid.

  • 07.20.2009 8:13 PM PDT

Here’s what Luke had to say about the differences in treatment between the Spartans and Elites in Reach:

“Instead of piece-by-piece customization like the Spartans, Elite customization is a full model swap with models selected from the various Elite classes appearing throughout the Campaign. There are all kinds of reasons for this, not the least of which is our continued emphasis on the Spartan as your identity in Reach.”

Posted by: SweetTRIX
Your confusing the term "balance" in relation to an FPS game. The BR is the most usefull weapon in the game, hands down. The only weapon that is at least semi-effective at all ranges. Add to that the fact that there are little to no area's where a sniper can capitolize on it's range boost over the BR and you edge out it's advantage.

The BR is too good a weapon compared to the rest of Halo 3's lineup, and that is easilly proveable as to how many can be "pro" due to that weapon.

I want the weapons to be brought closer together in terms of effectiveness.

  • 07.20.2009 8:15 PM PDT

Lol

OMG, can't close range fanatics get it? MOST OF HALO IS BASED ON MID RANGE COMBAT EITHER GET GOOD AT IT OR DON'T PLAY! Seriously I'm tired of all these close range whiners complain about how the BR owns them before they can get up close to win. Simple close range weapons are ONLY USEFUL IN CLOSE RANGE!!!! The BR was DESIGNED TO DOMINATE MID RANGE!!! IT IS YOUR FAULT IF YOU CANNOT PLAY THE GAME RIGHT!!! THEIRS A TIME AND PLACE FOR EVERYTHING!!! AND MOST OF THE TIME IT IS GOING TO BE MID RANGE FIGHTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • 07.20.2009 8:19 PM PDT

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
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Posted by: Killer4785
OMG, can't close range fanatics get it? MOST OF HALO IS BASED ON MID RANGE COMBAT EITHER GET GOOD AT IT OR DON'T PLAY! Seriously I'm tired of all these close range whiners complain about how the BR owns them before they can get up close to win. Simple close range weapons are ONLY USEFUL IN CLOSE RANGE!!!! The BR was DESIGNED TO DOMINATE MID RANGE!!! IT IS YOUR FAULT IF YOU CANNOT PLAY THE GAME RIGHT!!! THEIRS A TIME AND PLACE FOR EVERYTHING!!! AND MOST OF THE TIME IT IS GOING TO BE MID RANGE FIGHTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Im tired of BR fanatics that say the BR is perfect without bringing up any facts like i asked -even though i presented mine- and type in all caps. Looks like we're both going to have to deal with it.

  • 07.20.2009 8:21 PM PDT

Lol

I'm not a BR fanatic, I hate it compared to the halo 1 pistol. But the point is that halo forever and ever has and will always be mostly around mid range combat. This isn't about skill, mlg, or anything like that. Why do you want it where close range weapons are more used? All that does is allow even more random stuff happening and also defeats the purpose of balance. The point of mid range weapons is to keep the close range weapons from making the game completely random and to counter the power weapons. If we didn't have mid range weapons like the BR everything would be based on who got the power weapons first and who is the better camper. Most people do not like chaos, they like balance and order.

  • 07.20.2009 8:26 PM PDT

Posted by: ODST is a SCAM
it is overused but thats bcuz there are really no alternatives at mid range

And that's what they're going to change. Cut the BR in half, make two weapons.

  • 07.20.2009 8:35 PM PDT

Posted by: gameguyj
Well, in my honest opinion, the only reason that I don't like the BR is because I LOVED the Halo 1 pistol after playing Halo PC for months on end

I don't *hate* the BR, but I'd rather it be scrapped for some nostalgia and more fan-service.

Also, IMO, the pistol took more skill, with having to make sure that every bullet counts, whereas if you somewhat miss your target with the BR, at least one shot will connect.

Single shot BR...

  • 07.20.2009 8:38 PM PDT

On Waypoint I'm rocketFox;
http://halo.xbox.com/forums/members/rocketfox/default.aspx

Old GTs; RebelRobot, Flamedude

I like the BR. It is a good all-around workhorse that only really shines at mid-range but can do alright at every other range except extreme long range. Which is fine by me.

Althought a single shot BR would be nice the Carbine fills that role. We don't need another disguised H1 Pistol in Halo.

  • 07.20.2009 8:41 PM PDT

Posted by: ODST is a SCAM
people need to realise that bungie has already fine tuned this weapon over the course of 3 games and its pretty much perfect at this point

Exactly, their not gonna drop a weapon because it "doesn't fit in with the time frame" as some have said.

  • 07.20.2009 8:45 PM PDT
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You guys just Sopit da Wup!

  • 07.20.2009 9:03 PM PDT

Posted by:Killer4785
OMG, can't close range fanatics get it? MOST OF HALO IS BASED ON MID RANGE COMBAT EITHER GET GOOD AT IT OR DON'T PLAY! Seriously I'm tired of all these close range whiners complain about how the BR owns them before they can get up close to win. Simple close range weapons are ONLY USEFUL IN CLOSE RANGE!!!! The BR was DESIGNED TO DOMINATE MID RANGE!!! IT IS YOUR FAULT IF YOU CANNOT PLAY THE GAME RIGHT!!! THEIRS A TIME AND PLACE FOR EVERYTHING!!! AND MOST OF THE TIME IT IS GOING TO BE MID RANGE FIGHTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

+1 rep

the AR is a close range weapon it always has been. in halo 1 it was the pistol, in halo 2&3 its the BR/Carbine.If they need to buff anything its the Carbine becuase i find that it is useless. the AR needs a bigger clip yes but but for what range it falls into it works.

  • 07.20.2009 9:06 PM PDT

Clearly because the desktop uses a 3 prong plug and a laptop uses a 2 prong plug, the microwave will fill your car with tostitos better

Posted by: ABotelho
Posted by: ODST is a SCAM
it is overused but thats bcuz there are really no alternatives at mid range

And that's what they're going to change. Cut the BR in half, make two weapons.


So we will basically have three different versions of the current mid range useless pistol and the carbine will be even more dominant. I'm also glad you know how Bungie is going to change the guns in Reach, because I'm on the outside of that loop.

Posted by: The EAKLE
Posted by: Killer4785
OMG, can't close range fanatics get it? MOST OF HALO IS BASED ON MID RANGE COMBAT EITHER GET GOOD AT IT OR DON'T PLAY! Seriously I'm tired of all these close range whiners complain about how the BR owns them before they can get up close to win. Simple close range weapons are ONLY USEFUL IN CLOSE RANGE!!!! The BR was DESIGNED TO DOMINATE MID RANGE!!! IT IS YOUR FAULT IF YOU CANNOT PLAY THE GAME RIGHT!!! THEIRS A TIME AND PLACE FOR EVERYTHING!!! AND MOST OF THE TIME IT IS GOING TO BE MID RANGE FIGHTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Im tired of BR fanatics that say the BR is perfect without bringing up any facts like i asked -even though i presented mine- and type in all caps. Looks like we're both going to have to deal with it.


I'm sorry, but hardly anything you say can be taken as fact. In your other thread you just threw out "facts" that you thought were close to the truth. You go around talking about how weapons work yet you have been corrected multiple times on things as simple as how many shots it takes to kill with a certain gun (ex. bruteshot earlier in this thread). I would suggest either extensively playing all 3 Halo's extensively, watching gameplay videos of all kinds, or at least read one of the many websites that has extensive information on Halo gameplay and then coming back and posting about balance.

In my views, the main mid range weapon of Halo has been nerfed more than enough. Maybe its time for Bungie to try something different rather than throwing a bunch of semi-useless (at best) mid range weapons at the game. Most FPS games have a circular weapon tree that centers around one gun that fits somewhere in the mid range niche.

One gun will always be the most versatile, nothing will change that. That just so happens to be the Battle Rifle. In reality, the carbine is arguably a more versatile gun than the carbine, less so as you enter into the long range, but it is still a better weapon in melee, close, and mid range.

There are two main problems I have with Halo.

1. There are too many Battle Rifles placed on maps and not enough carbines of default gametypes.
2. The close range weapons of H3 are both unoriginal and barely functional because in themselves alone they are awful guns. Not to mention there is more than an abundance of them on most default maps.

There are so many close/melee range weapons that all do the same thing. Dual wielding has changed solitary close range weapons into useless half guns.

Personally, I think the magnum's rate of fire should be slightly increased as well as its accuracy and a 1.5x scope should be added. This way it isn't encroaching on the BR's dominance of mid-long range, nor does it effect the sniper rifle's long range dominance, but it still stands a chance in the hands of a skilled user against mid range weapons and it only gets a slight boost against close range guns, most of which dominate the magnum so much that this boost won't really matter.

I also think the assault rifle should be made slightly more accurate. This will give it a range boost and make it more effective against both the BR and other melee dominant weapons, but both still should beat up on it in their respective ranges unless the skill between the two opponents wielding each ranged weapon is worlds apart.

Not to mention I think carbine starts should be allowed in Reach.

  • 07.20.2009 9:07 PM PDT

Posted by: Xx Mr Bill xX
Personally, I think the magnum's rate of fire should be slightly increased as well as its accuracy and a 1.5x scope should be added. This way it isn't encroaching on the BR's dominance of mid-long range, nor does it effect the sniper rifle's long range dominance, but it still stands a chance in the hands of a skilled user against mid range weapons and it only gets a slight boost against close range guns, most of which dominate the magnum so much that this boost won't really matter.

I also think the assault rifle should be made slightly more accurate.


I agree, alot of what you said should happen. The carbine has been stuck in the back seat while the BR is driving this machine. the Carbine, being covie, should be a little bit stronger with over doing it. Adding a scope to the pistol would make it an overall better weapon.

  • 07.20.2009 9:19 PM PDT

Clearly because the desktop uses a 3 prong plug and a laptop uses a 2 prong plug, the microwave will fill your car with tostitos better

Posted by: rvbtucker339
Posted by: Xx Mr Bill xX
Personally, I think the magnum's rate of fire should be slightly increased as well as its accuracy and a 1.5x scope should be added. This way it isn't encroaching on the BR's dominance of mid-long range, nor does it effect the sniper rifle's long range dominance, but it still stands a chance in the hands of a skilled user against mid range weapons and it only gets a slight boost against close range guns, most of which dominate the magnum so much that this boost won't really matter.

I also think the assault rifle should be made slightly more accurate.


I agree, alot of what you said should happen. The carbine has been stuck in the back seat while the BR is driving this machine. the Carbine, being covie, should be a little bit stronger with over doing it. Adding a scope to the pistol would make it an overall better weapon.


Exactly. Adding a scope to a pistol isn't really realistic, but this is Halo. Its also been a useless weapon unless being dual wielded since H2 came out. Well, it was one of the better guns before the patch in H2, but that's neither here nor there. For all the people who are fans of nerfing the BR, the current pistol is a good reference of things to come if you get your way. At least that's what it sounds like to me. If you really want another semi-useful gun, so be it, just know what your getting yourself into.

[Edited on 07.20.2009 9:32 PM PDT]

  • 07.20.2009 9:31 PM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Posted by: Xx Mr Bill xX
Posted by: rvbtucker339
Posted by: Xx Mr Bill xX
Personally, I think the magnum's rate of fire should be slightly increased as well as its accuracy and a 1.5x scope should be added. This way it isn't encroaching on the BR's dominance of mid-long range, nor does it effect the sniper rifle's long range dominance, but it still stands a chance in the hands of a skilled user against mid range weapons and it only gets a slight boost against close range guns, most of which dominate the magnum so much that this boost won't really matter.

I also think the assault rifle should be made slightly more accurate.


I agree, alot of what you said should happen. The carbine has been stuck in the back seat while the BR is driving this machine. the Carbine, being covie, should be a little bit stronger with over doing it. Adding a scope to the pistol would make it an overall better weapon.


Exactly. Adding a scope to a pistol isn't really realistic, but this is Halo. Its also been a useless weapon unless being dual wielded since H2 came out. Well, it was one of the better guns before the patch in H2, but that's neither here nor there. For all the people who are fans of nerfing the BR, the current pistol is a good reference of things to come if you get your way. At least that's what it sounds like to me. If you really want another semi-useful gun, so be it, just know what your getting yourself into.
I have been saying that the M6G should have an accuracy boost since last summer. The RoF doesn't bother me that much, and it really is pretty much the same as the BR. Also, all weapons already have a scope; I use it with the M6G when I use and am pretty darn successful. It just doesn't have a reticule, but I would never be against such a change. The main problem I have with the M6G is that it doesn't balance against the Sniper and Rocket enough. The BR and M6D always did that and why I found Halo to be so much fun to begin with. The nerfing of this utility weapon has progressively gave dominance to certain weapon while slowing the pace of the game at the same time. I hope with Reach we don't see the same thing. The M6D would be nice, as long as it doesn't fire like a Carbine or a M6G. I haven't seen the accuracy of the silenced M6C for ODST, but that doesn't strike me of a weapon that would save Halo for me.

  • 07.20.2009 10:45 PM PDT

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Posted by: mubox47
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Posted by: Xx Mr Bill xX
Posted by: The EAKLE
Posted by: Killer4785
OMG, can't close range fanatics get it? MOST OF HALO IS BASED ON MID RANGE COMBAT EITHER GET GOOD AT IT OR DON'T PLAY! Seriously I'm tired of all these close range whiners complain about how the BR owns them before they can get up close to win. Simple close range weapons are ONLY USEFUL IN CLOSE RANGE!!!! The BR was DESIGNED TO DOMINATE MID RANGE!!! IT IS YOUR FAULT IF YOU CANNOT PLAY THE GAME RIGHT!!! THEIRS A TIME AND PLACE FOR EVERYTHING!!! AND MOST OF THE TIME IT IS GOING TO BE MID RANGE FIGHTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Im tired of BR fanatics that say the BR is perfect without bringing up any facts like i asked -even though i presented mine- and type in all caps. Looks like we're both going to have to deal with it.


I'm sorry, but hardly anything you say can be taken as fact. In your other thread you just threw out "facts" that you thought were close to the truth. You go around talking about how weapons work yet you have been corrected multiple times on things as simple as how many shots it takes to kill with a certain gun (ex. bruteshot earlier in this thread). I would suggest either extensively playing all 3 Halo's extensively, watching gameplay videos of all kinds, or at least read one of the many websites that has extensive information on Halo gameplay and then coming back and posting about balance.

In my views, the main mid range weapon of Halo has been nerfed more than enough. Maybe its time for Bungie to try something different rather than throwing a bunch of semi-useless (at best) mid range weapons at the game. Most FPS games have a circular weapon tree that centers around one gun that fits somewhere in the mid range niche.

One gun will always be the most versatile, nothing will change that. That just so happens to be the Battle Rifle. In reality, the carbine is arguably a more versatile gun than the carbine, less so as you enter into the long range, but it is still a better weapon in melee, close, and mid range.

There are two main problems I have with Halo.

1. There are too many Battle Rifles placed on maps and not enough carbines of default gametypes.
2. The close range weapons of H3 are both unoriginal and barely functional because in themselves alone they are awful guns. Not to mention there is more than an abundance of them on most default maps.

There are so many close/melee range weapons that all do the same thing. Dual wielding has changed solitary close range weapons into useless half guns.

Personally, I think the magnum's rate of fire should be slightly increased as well as its accuracy and a 1.5x scope should be added. This way it isn't encroaching on the BR's dominance of mid-long range, nor does it effect the sniper rifle's long range dominance, but it still stands a chance in the hands of a skilled user against mid range weapons and it only gets a slight boost against close range guns, most of which dominate the magnum so much that this boost won't really matter.

I also think the assault rifle should be made slightly more accurate. This will give it a range boost and make it more effective against both the BR and other melee dominant weapons, but both still should beat up on it in their respective ranges unless the skill between the two opponents wielding each ranged weapon is worlds apart.

Not to mention I think carbine starts should be allowed in Reach.
Can you name any other things i have claimed to be facts that were proven wrong? Yes, there was the AR and bruteshot in this thread. There was the MLG bit in my own thread, however, both my arguments still hold up when corrected.

On the other hand, after i at least attempted to bring in facts (which were close. I actually took the AR bit from my thread, and im apparently just bad with the bruteshot) there is nothing here to prove any of it. There is barely any logic. He says there are five ranges. Makes sense, but i could be seeing them entirely differently. I see mid range as the biggest range, then long rage after that, and extreme as halfway across sand trap. Without any actual numbers (distance in meters would be nice) this argument accomplishes nothing.

On top of that, he claims every weapon works in the adjacent ranges. He shows nothing to support this, we just have to take his word as fact if you want his argument to hold up.

I have not seen a long, thought out post from him yet. I say stuff like the BR can work effectively at long range. His reply is just "AR works in mid range too." Nothing to prove my point wrong, just another point that has yet to be proven.

So, at elast i tried to bring in facts. Im still waiting for him to somehow support this "perfect balance" with anything at all besides his word.

  • 07.21.2009 8:25 AM PDT

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Posted by: mubox47
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Posted by: The Jury
The EAKLE: Get back in your "The BR needs changin' man!" thread. You are wrong in your theories and stuck on an incorrect thesis about the status of the BR
Tell me, what in my last post was i wrong about? It seems that you -like all the people who hate me for making a suggestion- just want to yell at me because you disagree with a suggestion i made.

  • 07.21.2009 8:50 AM PDT
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Here's an idea. Remove the BR's spread completely. Then allow the AR to function at mid range if you burst but it is very ineffective at that range.

  • 07.21.2009 9:59 AM PDT

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Posted by: mubox47
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Posted by: ODST is a SCAM
Posted by: The EAKLE
Posted by: The Jury
The EAKLE: Get back in your "The BR needs changin' man!" thread. You are wrong in your theories and stuck on an incorrect thesis about the status of the BR
Tell me, what in my last post was i wrong about? It seems that you -like all the people who hate me for making a suggestion- just want to yell at me because you disagree with a suggestion i made.


your suggestions are founded on false information
Way to prove my point. Three of four people have said that, yet only a few bits of false information were found. The MLG thing, the AR thing and the Bruteshot thing. All the points still hold when the details are fixed, yet people just keep saying "EAKLE's wrong" without showing any of my points that flat out fail.

On top of that, yours is not founded on any information. Just that there are only five ranges (when we could easily divide them into more smaller ranges if we wanted to, and none of these ranges are defined) and that every weapon works in adjacent ranges (again, this has not been proven yet. You just say it.).

  • 07.21.2009 10:09 AM PDT

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
$.50 in store credit.

Posted by: ODST is a SCAM
Posted by: The EAKLE
Posted by: ODST is a SCAM
Posted by: The EAKLE
Posted by: The Jury
The EAKLE: Get back in your "The BR needs changin' man!" thread. You are wrong in your theories and stuck on an incorrect thesis about the status of the BR
Tell me, what in my last post was i wrong about? It seems that you -like all the people who hate me for making a suggestion- just want to yell at me because you disagree with a suggestion i made.


your suggestions are founded on false information
Way to prove my point. Three of four people have said that, yet only a few bits of false information were found. The MLG thing, the AR thing and the Bruteshot thing. All the points still hold when the details are fixed, yet people just keep saying "EAKLE's wrong" without showing any of my points that flat out fail.

On top of that, yours is not founded on any information. Just that there are only five ranges (when we could easily divide them into more smaller ranges if we wanted to, and none of these ranges are defined) and that every weapon works in adjacent ranges (again, this has not been proven yet. You just say it.).


i spelled it out for you in your thread

you just ignored it

im not going into it again

Care to link me to it? I dont want to search through all those pages for a single post when all i know is the author of it.

  • 07.21.2009 10:23 AM PDT