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  • Subject: the H3 BR is perfectly balanced
Subject: the H3 BR is perfectly balanced
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Posted by: SweetTRIX
Posted by: Naqser
Posted by: ODST is a SCAM
Posted by: Naqser
Eat 20 strawberries every day for a year, and you'll eventually get tired of them.

That's how it is with the BR for me. It's the same freaking weapon all the time. BR BR BR BR BR BR BR BR!

Yes, it is a good weapon, but it gets repetative. Atleast they could reskin it.

The problem with presenting more weapons that are like a BR, is that it won't matter what gun you use then, they are all the same, only different skins. Bungie would need to be innovative and stuff, but it's not easy presenting a new weapon in a prequel, as it won't be in the sequels.

They had the Plasma Freeze in Halo CE. The needler is really fun and original, the Plasma Pistol has its uses, drop shields, stop vehicles.

Get more effects in there that could counter the BR, and I'd be a happy man. Well, I'll be a happy man anyway.

Or just have less BRs on the maps. Even though people are going to cry.[/quote]

if you want less BR you need more mid range weapons

you cant just remove the BR...bcuz then youre removing mid range combat[/quote]

Didn't you read or didn't you understand?

If you think you understood, please do explain what you think I said.


He's been doing the same thing to me the whole time, i'm convinced he isn't reading.


Apparently, I like the following post.

Posted by: ODST is a SCAM

Posted by: Naqser

Or just have less BRs on the maps. Even though people are going to cry.


if you want less BR you need more mid range weapons

you cant just remove the BR...bcuz then youre removing mid range combat


Didn't you read or didn't you understand?

If you think you understood, please do explain what you think I said.


there fixed

i was only responding to the last line

the rest was just wan i suck at halo bungie help me wan


So you didn't understand a thing what I said, yet you don't admit it. WOW.

You respond to what you want to respond to, not taking a look at the whole concept.

Yes, it is a good weapon, but it gets repetative. Atleast they could reskin it.

I never said remove it, I said they could reskin it.

What the hell does even "wan" mean?

How does my post say "I suck at Halo"? Why are you attacking my Halo skill all of a sudden?

I have no words to describe you, sorry, I just can't.

  • 07.21.2009 8:04 PM PDT

with great power must also come with, oh you know the rest.

i wouldn't say prefect but it is fairly well balenced its not an insant kill but still takes some skill to use (not alot tough) in my opinion the BR and carbin act as a brigdge between the melee/close range weapons and the longe to extrme long range weapons
as for the carbine being under used that fairly simple it's becayse there not as redly avaliable as BRs and there not a starter weapon
yea my spelling sucks sue me

[Edited on 07.21.2009 8:18 PM PDT]

  • 07.21.2009 8:04 PM PDT
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Lol another br thread

  • 07.21.2009 8:04 PM PDT

Clearly because the desktop uses a 3 prong plug and a laptop uses a 2 prong plug, the microwave will fill your car with tostitos better

Posted by: ISeeOldPeople
Posted by: ODST is a SCAM
ok so theres 5 ranges

melee range-close range-mid range-long range-extreme long range

the BR is a mid range weapon that will suffice in the adjacent ranges(close and long range)but is useless in the further ends of the range spectrum(melee and extreme long)

that is perfect balance...the BR is meant for mid range but will give you a chance in close and long range vs close and long range weapons respectively

example....the BR will give you a chance vs an AR in close range and a sniper at long range....not a guaranteed win not a guaranteed lose

thats perfect...it leaves the gameplay flexible and makes sure it never becomes a rigid who has the better gun rock paper scissors match

but its not overpowered bcuz in the further ranges from the BR it will give you a guaranteed death

examples-in melee range vs a sword(or shotgun hammer mauler)you will will lose if you have a BR...same goes for extreme long range vs a sniper or laser


as far as the "oh you get too many BR kills vs other weapon kills"

this is true but its not the BR's fault....the BR takes up all the mid range niche...theres no other weapon...while in CQC you have a multitude of weapons spreading out your CQC kills

so in reality the TOD stats are skewed bcuz your CQC kills are spread out over multiple weapons while your mid range kills are all lumped onto the BR


OP the argument is good except for the fact that "extreme long rang" is not inaccessible to the BR. you say that in an "extreme long range" case that the BR will loose but i have seen this disproved time and time again on large maps such as Valhalla, Sandtrap, and Avalanche.

I also like how most of the weapons that you can sight that give you a chance against the BR are power weapons, and you only sight these weapons when they are being used in an appropriate environment e.x. sword close range or your "melee range"

One of the biggest problems posed by the BR is the fact that is so versatile. It is good close, mid, and long range. other problems stem from its power. (4 head shots or 6-7 body shots). another factor is the fact that it is a starting weapon. The clip size allows for multiple kills w/o reload.

So the basic argument against the BR is that its too good. its not so good that its unbeatable, but its damn close.


Your assuming that Halo players are consistently hitting 4 shots. I'm not going to go into it, but the average Halo player is probably killing people in 6-7 shots far more often than they are killing people in 4 shots. Even the best Halo players probably don't kill people in 4 shots more often than they do 5+.

When you simply throw out numbers like how many shots a gun can kill people in that is literally all your doing, throwing knowledge at a situation without understanding it. There are an infinite amount of situations you can be in where you can not physically kill a person in 4 shots or even 5 with the battle rifle. There are also a huge number of situations where you will be in where you have the potential to kill a player in 4 shots, but that number can be drastically reduced by many factors.

IMO, the BR is fine as it is. The main middle range weapon of Halo has been nerfed twice already. Its not a problem with the battle rifle. The problem is that there aren't enough weapons that can even contest the BR's dominance in its domain.

  • 07.21.2009 8:42 PM PDT

why is it that i never see generals complain about the BR, its always a commander or a major.

good players win. bad players lose. -blam!- players get owned. its that simple!

  • 07.21.2009 10:12 PM PDT

There's No Problem That Can't Be Solved With An Abundance Of Weed and A Jetpack.

There should be no "perfect" weapon. That's why you have TWO weapon slots. BR is turning every multiplayer match on Halo 3 into a competition of who can jump while throwing grenades better, because everyone has the same weapon.

  • 07.21.2009 10:24 PM PDT

Death to rank junkies.

Posted by: ODST is a SCAM


That's where I stopped reading.

  • 07.21.2009 10:50 PM PDT

BR would be more "balanced" if the headshot capability would be removed OR give bigger effective range to all CQB weapons.
BR dominates because most of the Halo's weapon have a short effective range.

  • 07.22.2009 3:48 AM PDT
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Let the people that get paid to develop the game decide instead of a community that can't agree on anything. Seriously some say its overpowered, some say it's balanced and others say it's to weak (spread).
Let Bungie do their job, they got lots of people that decide which weapon will be in reach and how weak or strong they will be.
Just wait until the beta, that build of halo: reach will answer your weapon related questions.

@ppl. who say there isn't a weapon to compet with the br in midrange: Why in gods name do I need 5 other weapons that do the same thing that a weapon that I already have does?
We have the br, theire are many on the map already, if you want to do s.t. on mid and maybe long ronge pick it up, if you can't find one after playing halo 3 for 2 years, either look for a carbine, learn the spawn points, or press the tiny little blue botton to veto for team brs.

EDIT2: Yes you can theoretically do 3 kills with one br clip. Practically its 2 if you are good. The god damn weapon spreads a lot, if you aren't shooting dummys or are onhost and the rest in the match lives in the same country as you do, its damn hard to pull out those three clips.
Lets compare with the br. Its made mir close and your called melee range. Well you can easily do 3 kills with the ar at melee range. I here nobody whinning about an overpowered ar?

What I'm trying to say is: Halo needs a mid range weapon to start with. Because most maps are mainly mid range maps. Even Guardian is. Lets say there were no br on guardian:
Blue team good sniper tower (the area where snipe respawns), since theire is no br or carbine, they got 1 snipers, one dude with mauler, one with hammer and one with ar only.
Your team got 4 ar players. Theire won't be an br that respawns, your team is set up around blue and gold (where the big golden lift is and the room that is blue). What do you have to take over that sniper tower? If you go from under glass (where hammer spawns) either the sniper will take you down ir one of the other guys with their cqb weapon when you reach the buttom of sniper tower. When you go top mid it's the same result. Coming from the tree/jungly area won't help you much either. So you wait for cammoflage. But the other team is most likely not stupid so they sent the mauler dude for cammo, he kills one of your guys who tried to get it and picks up cammo.
Same scenario, everyone has brs instead of ars. Red team, setup gold and blue again, can easily put damage on the sniper and the other 3 guys from gold to snipe. Combine this with some teamshooting and your team can take over the snipe tower. With your cqb starting weapon, the ar, you can't do much against the sniper at all. With the br, you still can.
I just want a weapon that allows me to do s.t. against the enemy if he doesn't stand right in front of me.

[Edited on 07.22.2009 4:42 AM PDT]

  • 07.22.2009 4:31 AM PDT

LW45 TS40 TO40 TSW35 TSN35 TT30 SB30 MLG25

So this weapon will dominate in the mid range, and will give the player a decent chance of success in short and long range. So providing the player stays out of hugely open areas (not present on most maps) and out of immensely tight quarters, the BR becomes an ultimate weapon. It is overpowered. Not that I have a problem with that.

[Edited on 07.22.2009 4:52 AM PDT]

  • 07.22.2009 4:51 AM PDT
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the BR ist NOT too GOOD. the other weapons are just too BAD!

  • 07.22.2009 4:58 AM PDT

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Every weapon in the game is balanced. The problem with the BR is peole want to use it all the time, so little else is used in the game. Halo is meant to be all about variety, having the choice to use different weapons, not 4 shots. That's why it will probably be removed.

  • 07.22.2009 5:22 AM PDT

with great power must also come with, oh you know the rest.

the BR isnt over powered its the fact that it usauly the main starter weapon in most game type's.
because of that it forced most people to become great with it or theyed get completely owned, like i said the weapon itself isn't over powered it the fact that most player are amazeing with it that makes it seem that way, not to mention how in most team game type's most teams stick together cause the time needed to kill you to drop at a great pace and in most case's they stick to theyre BRs because no mater how fast you run (unless in a vehicle) you'll always be in the range of there scope


[Edited on 07.22.2009 7:29 AM PDT]

  • 07.22.2009 7:05 AM PDT

Gamertag: Vengeance304

Posted by: blarghonk2
Every weapon in the game is balanced.

If only that were true. You don't see many people dual wielding or single wielding one handed weapons do you? Not many people use the plasma rifle to get a kill (I'm talking about using the actual gun to get a kill, not fire some shots and then beatdown) or the spiker. If the weapons were perfectly balanced then these weapons would be effective on their own without having to beatdown.

[Edited on 07.22.2009 8:34 AM PDT]

  • 07.22.2009 8:34 AM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: ODST is a SCAM
Posted by: Xx Mr Bill xX


IMO, the BR is fine as it is. The main middle range weapon of Halo has been nerfed twice already. Its not a problem with the battle rifle. The problem is that there aren't enough weapons that can even contest the BR's dominance in its domain.


^this this this


So by promoting the above post OP, you admit that the BR is not balanced. You just shattered your whole point.

  • 07.23.2009 12:33 PM PDT
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Posted by: ODST Fallen
How is any of this relevant to Reach?

^^

  • 07.23.2009 12:38 PM PDT

Character Artist -- Electronic Arts

The problem with the BR, is that the AR sucks too much at medium Range.
If they AR is tweaked, the BR is fine.
If you want the BR to be a Medium-long range weapon, slightly reduce the Rate of Fire.

Other than that, the gun is great. And is equally matched by the Carbine.

  • 07.23.2009 12:50 PM PDT
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I'm going to have to simplify this for the members argueing against the BR.

What is the point of playing Halo (the outcome)?
Answer - For there to be a winner and a loser.

What is the best way to decide who is the winner and loser?
Answer - Skill

What is the most suitable weapon for this?
Answer - Battle Rifle (or any other midrange weapon that takes skill to use)

If you disagree with this most basic knowledge then you are not capable of logical thought.

Now on to the balance issue, some people are incapable of thinking outside the box, if the BR is effective at midrange it is doing it's job and if it manages to get kills outside it's intended range against weapons within their most effective range then that isn't because the BR is inbalanced it's because of an inbalance of skill because the other person even though having the direct advantage did not use the weapon to it's full potential.
Weapons like the Sniper are effective in it's intended range, weapons like the shotgun/mauler/sword are effective in their intended range, the BR is effective in it's intended range therefore all these weapons are balanced and have a level of skillful aiming with the sniper or smarts with close range weapons. This then leaves the automatic weapons unbalanced as they are weaker and useless to the rest.
So as you can see blindly and arrogantly saying the BR is unbalanced is wrong as it is the other weapons that are too weak, some people cannot grasp the concept of imbalance occuring the other way of weapons being weaker.

  • 07.23.2009 1:52 PM PDT
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Posted by: SweetTRIX
Posted by: ODST is a SCAM
Posted by: Xx Mr Bill xX


IMO, the BR is fine as it is. The main middle range weapon of Halo has been nerfed twice already. Its not a problem with the battle rifle. The problem is that there aren't enough weapons that can even contest the BR's dominance in its domain.


^this this this


So by promoting the above post OP, you admit that the BR is not balanced. You just shattered your whole point.


Read my post you just showed everyone how narrow minded you are.

  • 07.23.2009 2:00 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: Rhodes
Posted by: SweetTRIX
Posted by: ODST is a SCAM
Posted by: Xx Mr Bill xX


IMO, the BR is fine as it is. The main middle range weapon of Halo has been nerfed twice already. Its not a problem with the battle rifle. The problem is that there aren't enough weapons that can even contest the BR's dominance in its domain.


^this this this


So by promoting the above post OP, you admit that the BR is not balanced. You just shattered your whole point.


Read my post you just showed everyone how narrow minded you are.


Actually your swinging around your own ignorance with your post and your statement. If you claim it's the other weapons that are simply to weak, then the BR is still an imbalanced weapon for the Halo3 weapon set. It is pretty damn stupid to think the ONE weapon that "is right" in your opinion isn't imbalanced against the rest.

That's the same elitist attitude that get so many pissed off in this world. The "one" way is right even though it doesn't jive with the others, that is arrogance my friend. You fall into the same category as the OP, you are not reading what the valid arguements are saying, it doesn't matter how good or useful the BR is, it is not balanced for Halo3 play.

Also, if you wish to think of weapons as built to function within their intended range, then the BR is the only weapon that functions consistently well in other ranges. The only time i've ever been outclassed while using a BR is at sniper range or point blank range, anything else and an experiance BR user will have no problem coming out on top, this is from both personal experiance as well as things i've seen done several times over.

You seem to be mistaking me as someone who simply wants the BR removed, I never once said that in this thread. All I have stated, and presented several different view points and explanations for, is that the weapon is not balanced, let alone "perfectly balanced". But you and the OP can keep thinking of me being wrong, I could care less, I know several people that would marry the BR and have made their Halo careers with it (Halo2 and on) that would agree with me on the balance issue.

[Edited on 07.23.2009 6:01 PM PDT]

  • 07.23.2009 5:42 PM PDT

Halo 3 is fine as it is. The only problem with the game is there is way too much melee lunge, and autoaim. Take both out, or reduce them drastically, and you have yourself a fine game.

Have you ever tried to betray your own teammates? Doesn't it seem much harder? There is no autoaim and no melee lunge, maybe that's why.

  • 07.23.2009 5:57 PM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Posted by: SweetTRIX
Actually your swinging around your own ignorance with your post and your statement. If you claim it's the other weapons that are simply to weak, then the BR is still an imbalanced weapon for the Halo3 weapon set. It is pretty damn stupid to think the ONE weapon that "is right" in your opinion isn't imbalanced against the rest.

That's the same elitist attitude that get so many pissed off in this world. The "one" way is right even though it doesn't jive with the others, that is arrogance my friend. You fall into the same category as the OP, you are not reading what the valid arguements are saying, it doesn't matter how good or useful the BR is, it is not balanced for Halo3 play.
That's fine if that's the way you look at it. However, when you balance a shooter, you must balance everything: long-range, mid-range, close-range, Vehicles, etc.

The logical choice is to improve weapons that are underpowered, as in improve range which is the only reason why people feel that the BR is overpowered. If you decrease the power of the mid-ranged weapons, which isn't just the BR, then there is an imbalance with the long-ranged tactics and/or Rocket-esque weapons. We already see that in games with only a Carbine instead, like certain variants on Snowbound; the Sniper just dominates and all you can do is hide and camp.

You wanting the BR or Carbine (because they are both equally powerful with exception of Sniper balance) to be less powerful only creates more imbalance. Close-ranged weapons (because that is what they are and includes the AR) are dominant in close quarters scenarios. The mid-ranged weapons are dominant at mid-range. And, the Sniper is dominant at long-range. So, my question is why is the mid-ranged weapons overpowered? It's not the best at close-range; in fact, it is one of the worst weapons to use at close-range, and it can barely place one bullet at long range against the Sniper.

The BR or Carbine is not unbalanced for Halo 3; it is your idea that close-range should not be overpowered by mid-range that is unbalanced for Halo 3.

  • 07.23.2009 6:00 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: Jiggly Luv
Posted by: SweetTRIX
Actually your swinging around your own ignorance with your post and your statement. If you claim it's the other weapons that are simply to weak, then the BR is still an imbalanced weapon for the Halo3 weapon set. It is pretty damn stupid to think the ONE weapon that "is right" in your opinion isn't imbalanced against the rest.

That's the same elitist attitude that get so many pissed off in this world. The "one" way is right even though it doesn't jive with the others, that is arrogance my friend. You fall into the same category as the OP, you are not reading what the valid arguements are saying, it doesn't matter how good or useful the BR is, it is not balanced for Halo3 play.
That's fine if that's the way you look at it. However, when you balance a shooter, you must balance everything: long-range, mid-range, close-range, Vehicles, etc.

The logical choice is to improve weapons that are underpowered, as in improve range which is the only reason why people feel that the BR is overpowered. If you decrease the power of the mid-ranged weapons, which isn't just the BR, then there is an imbalance with the long-ranged tactics and/or Rocket-esque weapons. We already see that in games with only a Carbine instead, like certain variants on Snowbound; the Sniper just dominates and all you can do is hide and camp.

You wanting the BR or Carbine (because they are both equally powerful with exception of Sniper balance) to be less powerful only creates more imbalance. Close-ranged weapons (because that is what they are and includes the AR) are dominant in close quarters scenarios. The mid-ranged weapons are dominant at mid-range. And, the Sniper is dominant at long-range. So, my question is why is the mid-ranged weapons overpowered? It's not the best at close-range; in fact, it is one of the worst weapons to use at close-range, and it can barely place one bullet at long range against the Sniper.

The BR or Carbine is not unbalanced for Halo 3; it is your idea that close-range should not be overpowered by mid-range that is unbalanced for Halo 3.


I agree with your first sentance, but the rest of what you say is going in the same circles that the OP has been going. You cannot simply buff the other weapons that have their shortcommings to soften the difference in "effectiveness" between the weapons, that would have a pretty massive ripple effect. Quite honestly if they removed the BR and all that was available at the mid range was the Carbine, it would be a better fit as you actually have to aim to do damage with the Carbine, not just shoot the general area, but then the mid-range could be weak accross the board as a result so it may not be a practical change.

As i've said in previous posts, it's the players that proved the BR's imbalance by setting the trend towards heavy BR use. Instead of toning down the BR's advantage by tweaking map settings and playlists, Bungie fueled the fire by increasing the BR frequency at the players request. There is really nothing wrong with this IMO, but that does have a huge affect on balance. I don't think the weapon itself needs much of a change because realistically there isn't much to be done with it that wouldn't screw things up in some other aspecet (though I would be interested so see what happens were it removed for a week).

You present a solid point though, this whole thing comes down to how one percieves balance. I guess if balance to some people is based on how well something works within an established realm, then the BR is the most balanced weapon in the game outside of special circumstances. But if you percieve balance to include how well the other weapons perform against a weapon, how everything works with eachother, then the BR is the odd-man out, it doesn't mesh well with the other weapons as it eliminates their utility. Why grab an AR and a shotgun, when a BR and a shotgun offers a much broader range of coverage. This could be said of many weapon pairings within the game.

The BR or Carbine is not unbalanced for Halo 3; it is your idea that close-range should not be overpowered by mid-range that is unbalanced for Halo 3.

Also i'm not too sure how you came to this opinion of my "idea", I use the BR when I play, frequently, but that does not make it balanced. Quite honestly short-range should only ever be dominated by mid-range, in the mid-range, but with the BR that is not the case. That is my issue.

[Edited on 07.23.2009 6:15 PM PDT]

  • 07.23.2009 6:13 PM PDT