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This topic has moved here: Subject: Why Halo:Reach needs more mid range weapons,solution to the BR crisis.
  • Subject: Why Halo:Reach needs more mid range weapons,solution to the BR crisis.
Subject: Why Halo:Reach needs more mid range weapons,solution to the BR crisis.

Before I even get started I don't want anybody saying "omg the BR is cool, shut up you noob" this is not an anti BR thread. I like the BR, it's a cool weapon and along with the sniper the only weapon needing any skill in halo 3. The trouble with the BR is that it doesn't make interesting gameplay, most games boil down to little more than who can put their 4 shots in quickest.

I think for Halo Reach there needs to be more mid range weapons. Everybody knows that the majority of the fighting in multiplayer is done at mid range and yet there are only 2 mid range weapons, the BR and the Carbine.
For halo reach I would like to see the BR, auto-mag/CE pistol, the carbine and a scoped AR possible like the one in this thread.

The BR should remain much the same beast that it is today, a mid range weapon with burst fire and a large clip suitable for killing several enemies in a row at many different ranges.

The auto-mag should become a fast weapon that can kill very quickly with a very small clip and relatively high reload time. This means it will be able to kill someone with a BR in a 1vs1 situation but it won't be able to take out more than 1 enemy at a time because the reload will leave you vulnerable.
Obviously if the auto mag was such a beast it would have to lose scope ability in dual weild. This would make 2 very different ways of using the auto mag. A close range weapon in dual weild or a mid range weapon in single weild

The scoped AR would be the most versatile weapon capable of challenging a BR at range while keeping it's close range power. While many people dislike the AR because it's a "spray and pray" weapon. A scoped version would require much more skill as it would need to be fired in short controlled bursts to keep the recoil in check. It would still be weaker than the BR at mid range but it would actually stand a chance.

It would also be nice if the carbine got an update. If it had both a 2x scope and a 5x scope it would be an effective bridge between the BR and the sniper in skill requirements. while it would be easier to use than a sniper (which has a 10x scope) it would also have to be less deadly meaning it would only be able to outrange a BR at the price of reduced damage.

If there were more ranged weapons than the multiplayer would be more interesting, having 4 very different mid ranged weapons would make a lot more possible tactical situations causing players to think on their feet more rather that just plugging away with the BR.

The other advantage of having this sort of set up would be that there would be more crossover between the ranges. A double scoped carbine would sit somewhere between the sniper and the BR while the scoped AR would lie between the BR and the SMG. This would mean players would have to get good at using different weapons for different maps instead of using the BR for everything. Small maps would use the AR, middle size maps the BR or auto-mag and larger maps the carbine.

OTHER POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS
Bring back the SMG for the starting weapon, but make it scoped. Remove the AR altogether.

increase the damage and decrease the spread of automatic weapons. However make them more innacurate than they currently are if they are fired for any length of time. This would encourage skillful burst fire while making 'spray and pray' less effective.

[Edited on 07.28.2009 9:29 AM PDT]

  • 07.21.2009 3:40 AM PDT

You make a lot of good points, but don't you think to an extent close combat would be obliterated entirely if there were any more mid range weapons? I'm not that big of a fan of the BR for the boring ass repetitive gameplay like you stated, but there are other reasons i feel gameplays sufferes at the fault of the BR. While most of what you said i would favor compared to what we have now, i fear it could actually kill gameplay entirely.

Halo 3 had more weapons than most people can remember, and i'm beginning to feel it's not a good thing. Most people don't even pick up new weapons - especially if it's BR start. Maybe this is because i was a fan of SMG start in Halo 2, but i feel that close combat is essential to the Halo feel. With the Automag, M9D, or the zooming AR, there would be no reason to grab 9/10 weapons on the map. Dual Wielding is rarely utilized now, why make it worse?

  • 07.21.2009 7:35 AM PDT
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Legends never die.

Scrap the BR. Bring back the Halo CE M6D pistol, but with lower damage. Keep the carbine and slightly adjust the range of the AR.

Problem Solved.

  • 07.21.2009 7:42 AM PDT

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Posted by: mubox47
$.50 in store credit.

While it would make the constant mid range combat a little less boring, id still prefer making long and close range combat more appealing. Even with more mid range weapon, the game would make the game incredibly dull very fast. It is already based off mid range ocmbat enough.

  • 07.21.2009 7:45 AM PDT

I feel naked with this open, quick, close the damn thing before I get a cold...

I'm all up for adding some mid-range dual weapons into the mix, as has been said, dual weapons hardly get used anymore, in fact hardly any of the weapons do.

  • 07.21.2009 7:49 AM PDT

This thread actually makes sense. People like the ability to perform headshots and like using weapons that are highly accurate. The game is after all set 1000 years in the future; you'd think all our weapons by that time would be rediculously accurate and effictive. Currently the only weapons that can pull off head shots are the Battle Rifle, Carbine and 2 Sniper Rifles. The rest of the weapons are close range automatics about as accurate as a garden hose.

You want less people using the Battle Rifle. Give them more variety of accurate weapons.

  • 07.21.2009 10:55 AM PDT

Posted by: Deidg Nactal
You make a lot of good points, but don't you think to an extent close combat would be obliterated entirely if there were any more mid range weapons? I'm not that big of a fan of the BR for the boring ass repetitive gameplay like you stated, but there are other reasons i feel gameplays sufferes at the fault of the BR. While most of what you said i would favor compared to what we have now, i fear it could actually kill gameplay entirely.

Halo 3 had more weapons than most people can remember, and i'm beginning to feel it's not a good thing. Most people don't even pick up new weapons - especially if it's BR start. Maybe this is because i was a fan of SMG start in Halo 2, but i feel that close combat is essential to the Halo feel. With the Automag, M9D, or the zooming AR, there would be no reason to grab 9/10 weapons on the map. Dual Wielding is rarely utilized now, why make it worse?


Whether or not dual weilds are under/over powered halo has always had very powerful mid-range weapons. HCE had the pistol, H2 and H3 have the BR. I've never played H2 but I know that in both H3 and HCE you never need to swap out your mid range weapon. Making the mid-range weapons more specialized would mean that they become normal guns, not semi-power weapons that are lethal in almost all situations.

The BR would be weaker than all the rest of the mid range weapons at the price of a large clip, the auto mag powerful at the price of a small clip, the carbine would be weaker to balance out it's long range and the AR would be weaker at close range than it is now to ofset it's mid range capabilites.

Having the AR turn into a mid range weapon would probably leave a gap for close range weapon. The trouble with dual wields is that the AR is just as good at close range as dual AND you get grenades. Reducing the AR's close range capabilites would mean all the close range weapons would be duals (not including the sword or the shotty which are melle weapons).

[Edited on 07.22.2009 7:19 AM PDT]

  • 07.22.2009 7:10 AM PDT

I hate the BR

i agree trash the br

  • 07.22.2009 7:28 AM PDT
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Make the BR single shot.

  • 07.22.2009 7:35 AM PDT
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Posted by: TR1GGERHAPPYA55
Scrap the BR. Bring back the Halo CE M6D pistol, but with lower damage. Keep the carbine and slightly adjust the range of the AR.

Problem Solved.


The carbine is essentially a toned down M6D in rifle form.

  • 07.22.2009 8:24 AM PDT
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Posted by: MuffinMan116
Make the BR single shot.


Then we will have two midrange rifles. That doesn't really make sense. The BR and Carbine are semi unique right now. The Carbine is better at close range because of its faster rate of fire and the BR is easier to headshot with at long range because it has a three round burst. I don't think that should change.

[Edited on 07.22.2009 8:30 AM PDT]

  • 07.22.2009 8:29 AM PDT

Posted by: SPAZ 63094
i agree trash the br


Why thank you for reading the entire post. Your insight is an inspiration to us all...

  • 07.25.2009 8:45 AM PDT

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Posted by: SPAZ 63094
i agree trash the br


Why thank you for reading the entire post. Your insight is an inspiration to us all...


Owned.

  • 07.25.2009 8:50 AM PDT

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Agreed... well, sort of. We don't need more midrange weapons, we just need most weapons to be able to do damage at midrange if fired sparingly and if the user has skill (ex. in H1 the PR was a close range weapon but could also be used at midrange in the right hands). Same with the Shotgun. And plasma pistol.

Everything else needs this treatment, and remove dual wielding (or give it an overhaul) otherwise there will always be weapons which are worthless past melee range like the Halo 2/3 plasma rifle.

  • 07.25.2009 10:38 AM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

I'm with Cheehwww. Too much variety can be a bad thing. Right now, I see Halo 3 of having to much of it, which causes gameplay issues. But, having alot of weapons can be a good thing if handled correctly, for which I think Bungie fails in that respect. I think most of the weapons need a vast improving in its range capabilities (including the already range weapons). The only weapons that should have close-range limitations are Melee/Power specific weapons, like Shotgun, Sword, etc. But, right now, everything seems to have close-range limitations, and therefore people make ill-informed claims that any weapon that has an advantage due to range is so-called overpowered.

And, really. Why do so many people have a problem with a weapon having a bit of range? I agree that the BR is dull, but that is because of how wide a spread it has. I would much rather play a FPS where challenging awareness and aiming skills are the key factors of combat; not some noobified close-range festivity. The only reason why I got into Halo in the first place was because of how fun I found strafing, jumping, and evading all while dealing sick headshots. So, let's bring more of that gameplay back; the gameplay that many of us fell in love with.

  • 07.25.2009 11:56 AM PDT

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Agreed. Ever since the BR was created in Halo 2, it has been the BANE of my existence! Burst weapons frikkin SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • 07.25.2009 12:05 PM PDT

Slow down there.

I started to disagree with you when you stated that the BR should stay the same. It is way too overpowered.


I would go on but I am going to play some Call of Duty 4

  • 07.25.2009 12:21 PM PDT
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Why not make most weapons usable at midrange and make most maps larger and more open.

-the assault rifle, plasma rifle and spiker would require burst fire to increase their range
-the shotgun could receive a range increase but not be usable at midrange
-the Halo PC fuel rod gun could return with less ammo and a faster overheat
-rockets could travel faster
-the needler could shoot the needles at a higher speed, with more accuracy and with less homing
-the plasma pistol would have slight homing when charged up
-the pistol could be a weaker version of the Halo CE pistol with a 1.5x scope
-the battle rifle would lose its spread
-the carbine could fire straight
-grenades could be thrown further
-the brute shot could could fire like in Halo 2 but with four shots to kill still and six shot capacity
-the flamethrower could act like a real flamethrower, having a pretty long range(not midrange though), it wouldn't kill as fast(it was said in a book that energy shields were resistant to fire) but it would blind the player being burned
-the SMG and Mauler would most likely be removed
-the sword/hammer wouldn't be useful, so most likely only usable by your enemies in camping
-dual wielding would become useless and most likely removed.

These are just some ideas.

[Edited on 07.25.2009 1:06 PM PDT]

  • 07.25.2009 1:05 PM PDT

Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Agreed... well, sort of. We don't need more midrange weapons, we just need most weapons to be able to do damage at midrange if fired sparingly and if the user has skill (ex. in H1 the PR was a close range weapon but could also be used at midrange in the right hands). Same with the Shotgun. And plasma pistol.

Everything else needs this treatment, and remove dual wielding (or give it an overhaul) otherwise there will always be weapons which are worthless past melee range like the Halo 2/3 plasma rifle.


This is definately an idea worth thinking about, I for one wouldn't want to see dual wielding go, but apart from that I agree with just about all of this.

  • 07.27.2009 2:24 PM PDT

I say instead of decreasing weapon efficiency, just make the other weapons better. Right now, SMG, PR, Spiker, and many other guns are not needed b/c of a few guns that get the job done quicker and easier.

Also, weapon spawns need an overhaul. Halo 1 always had alot of weapons all over the map, but most of the time, it was only one or two. Now, we get maps with like, 4 BRs and a Carbine. There are like 30 weapons in halo, we should use them all.

  • 07.27.2009 2:49 PM PDT
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My best weapon is improvising at practicing sacrifice, no other weapon can beat that.

  • 07.27.2009 2:58 PM PDT
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Halo has a awful weapon balance. Duel Wielding more or less is to blame, as it made weapons like the Plasma Rifle, Plasma Pistol, Needler (even though they fixed it, and it sucked in the first place), and the Pistol (even though that was nerfed intentionally). There is a giant gap in the ranges between the Carbine and the Magnum. Just think about how different those two guns are. The Magnum should be destroyed in favor of maybe a better ranged plasma or brute weapon, then in the middle should be the spawn weapon, which is medium ranged, automatic, but fairly weak. Moving up into the upper ranges the Carbine and (newly added) Automag would become the main weapons. The BR is too powerful and should be kept as a counter sniper, used very sparingly and put on decently high respawn times. It's a wonder that Halo can still thrive with a weapon like that as a starting weapon... in any other game it would probably a game breaker.

  • 07.27.2009 2:59 PM PDT

I think weapons like the Plasma Rifle and Spiker should get a range increase to compensate for there slow bullet travel time, the Rocket Launcher should be nerfed severily (because people its seriously an Anti-Vehicle weapon and all it gets used on is infantry now) The range at which you can melee someone should be reduced and the AR should become less accurate if someone "sprays' n prays" with it. Another reason things like the SMG, Plasma Rifle, and Spiker are being less used now is because of the AR, that gun has more range and power then all of those weapons. i also personally think any new weapons from ODST should be added to multiplayer, the Auto Mag and Scoped SMG would be good counters to a BR (provided the SMG has recoil and less damage in its scoped form).

  • 07.27.2009 3:13 PM PDT

The ODST weapons should definately be added, although possibly in an unsilenced form. I'm not sure how scoped, dual wields would work though. They'd probably get a scope in single wield and no scope in dual

[Edited on 08.17.2009 1:12 PM PDT]

  • 07.29.2009 5:33 AM PDT