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This topic has moved here: Subject: Why Bots, Even If Only Began Now, Would NOT Delay the Game
  • Subject: Why Bots, Even If Only Began Now, Would NOT Delay the Game
Subject: Why Bots, Even If Only Began Now, Would NOT Delay the Game
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I've been hearing a lot of people say they don't want bots, caz they'll delay the game. Well, think for a moment. Lets say they have Elite bots you can fight. They don't really have to reprogram a whole AI, they could take a current Elite AI! Wow! That will delay the game right?! Same with any other covenants. As for marines, all they'd have to do would be to allow them to attack you... maybe add this thing into their AI that makes them think you betrayed them some how. The only REAL challenge would be to recreate a Spartan AI. Now, assuming there are Spartans (Fred, Linda, Etc.) in the game, then that shouldn't really be a problem either. But, if there aren't, then maybe they could take an Elite AI, play around with it a little, and wallah, you got yourself a Spartan. So if that's the main reason why you don't want bots, its resolved. Now, another thing I've been hearing is, "But it's nothing like the real thing!!!! (whining)" Well, nobody wants it to be! It CANT be like the real thing. But it's better than nothing isn't it? If you've beat the game on all difficulties, have no friends, no Xbox Live, or maybe your friends aren't available, then you would be bored to death! Well, you would use bots to train and practice! Or maybe you can't beat the game on Legendary. Maybe you have problems with Elites on Legendary. What would you do? You would practice against an Elite bot set to difficulty Legendary! And, as for bots not being the same as the AI in campaign (believe it or not, I've heard people say this), than you know nothing about programming or AI.

[Edited on 7/20/2004 11:56:38 AM]

  • 07.20.2004 11:54 AM PDT
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thats a goood point

  • 07.20.2004 11:56 AM PDT
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Problem with AI, No strategical thinking, so you can't work together with them. So it would be nowhere as fun as online and stuff. But some games like Forza Motorsport have AI that absorbs strategies from the human players, and if you have that, why not download the strategies of someone with a high ranking. An awesome AI would be if they cordinated attacks to surround you and stuff.

[Edited on 7/20/2004 11:57:53 AM]

  • 07.20.2004 11:57 AM PDT
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yea! I agree !
then Halo 2 would achieve 10/10 instead of 9.5/10

  • 07.20.2004 11:57 AM PDT
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A bot for multiplayer would have to be completely different than the AI for a elite or any other unit on single player... they would have to be set up for all different game types... the single player AI basically takes defensive positions and attacks you when you come near it.

  • 07.20.2004 11:58 AM PDT
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cDringer, your one of those people I said who no nothing about AI. Ok, let's say your playing campaign right now on Halo 2. I want you to look me in the eye, and tell me that elites dont jump behind things. They dont flip over tables. They dont sneak up on you. If you say that your stupid. And, if you don't, then u just contradicted urself. Because that IS strategic thinking. Sure, they don't REALLY think, but they were programmed with strategies!

  • 07.20.2004 11:59 AM PDT
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Posted by: zoggyzoggerson
A bot for multiplayer would have to be completely different than the AI for a elite or any other unit on single player... they would have to be set up for all different game types... the single player AI basically takes defensive positions and attacks you when you come near it.


Yes, that is true. I haven't thought of that. But, still. That wouldn't be tough. Because all you have to do is take the Elite, add a little programming (ok technically it is tough, but not something proffesional programmers cant handle) and implement some new stuff in there. Trust me, it's not very relatively tough to do something like that. I'm learning C++ right now.

  • 07.20.2004 12:00 PM PDT
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it would delay it alittle bit

  • 07.20.2004 12:03 PM PDT
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Well, as a matter of fact, for multiplayer bots, all you have to have programmed is waypoints, for CTF, oddball, KotH, and race (which will take maybe a day for each map, if that), and a realistic AI behaviour. (which they will probably already have, thanks to SP. They may have to tweak it a bit for MP, but that's it.), and Search and Destroy patterns for Slayer. (which may also take a day for each map)

[Edited on 7/20/2004 12:09:04 PM]

  • 07.20.2004 12:04 PM PDT
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Look, unless something critical happens, I don't think the game CAN be delayed. Since it's an official release date, I dont think they can delay it unless something is stolen... or a virus... etc. They wouldnt add something if they thought it would delay the game. But, if you look at the last update, you could conclude that they are starting to work on bots now.

  • 07.20.2004 12:05 PM PDT
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Posted by: DualWieldinFreak
cDringer, your one of those people I said who no nothing about AI. Ok, let's say your playing campaign right now on Halo 2. I want you to look me in the eye, and tell me that elites dont jump behind things. They dont flip over tables. They dont sneak up on you. If you say that your stupid. And, if you don't, then u just contradicted urself. Because that IS strategic thinking. Sure, they don't REALLY think, but they were programmed with strategies!


Yah, but as people play they learn new strategies. Like in Halo 1, my friend always drives a warthog and parks in view of the enemies base and uses it for cover. The AI in multiplayer bot games can't compare to this, they don't think that way. All, I was saying is that if they had bots that learned from human player strategies, it would be a lot better.

  • 07.20.2004 12:07 PM PDT
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Well, that's a head of our time. And if you read my original post, you'll see that i stressed that it's not exactly like the real thing. But it's good enough to practice with, and to have fun with if your friends arent available, and no xbox live. Nobody expects it to be like the real thing, except total fools.

  • 07.20.2004 12:08 PM PDT
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I am not even going to read what you said only because if they were to add bots, another XBL enabled beta test would be the smart thing to do. And to finish up what they started then get another one going is just insane.

[Edited on 7/20/2004 12:09:03 PM]

  • 07.20.2004 12:08 PM PDT
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The SP A.I. will be extremely good. Bungie said the NPC's would act just like you would, if you were in their position. Like, they don't have sheilds, stuff.

For MP they could just program them to be more aggressive. Simple.

  • 07.20.2004 12:10 PM PDT
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Posted by: DualWieldinFreak
Well, that's a head of our time. And if you read my original post, you'll see that i stressed that it's not exactly like the real thing. But it's good enough to practice with, and to have fun with if your friends arent available, and no xbox live. Nobody expects it to be like the real thing, except total fools.

If you read my post, you would know that it would make better AI, and that it is already being used on the upcoming driving game Forza Motorsport. I know that driving games are much different, but strategies in a shooting game can't be far off.

  • 07.20.2004 12:10 PM PDT
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Well, this isn't going to be the only beta. It's the first xbox live beta. In my opinion, there'll be like two or three more. They could just add it in the next few times.

  • 07.20.2004 12:10 PM PDT
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Posted by: Master Grunty
For MP they could just program them to be more aggressive. Simple.


Well, that's the simple version. For a more (not really) complex one, read my last post

  • 07.20.2004 12:12 PM PDT

-S

Posted by: DualWieldinFreak
But, if you look at the last update, you could conclude that they are starting to work on bots now.


You could, yes, but that doesn't mean you're right. Don't assume to know what they mean when they're being cryptic.

As for the original argument, it's completely wrong. Nowhere in the base AI will you find "Get in warthog, wait for friends, drive to enemy base, grab flag, return to warthog, go back to base." It's not as simple as a copy/paste into a multiplayer map. Specific rules have to be written for the AI to have any clue that they're supposed to do more than stand around in a vegetable like state, or just run around and fire at anyone that is a player. It's not simple at all.

  • 07.20.2004 12:12 PM PDT
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Posted by: cDringer
Posted by: DualWieldinFreak
Well, that's a head of our time. And if you read my original post, you'll see that i stressed that it's not exactly like the real thing. But it's good enough to practice with, and to have fun with if your friends arent available, and no xbox live. Nobody expects it to be like the real thing, except total fools.

If you read my post, you would know that it would make better AI, and that it is already being used on the upcoming driving game Forza Motorsport. I know that driving games are much different, but strategies in a shooting game can't be far off.

That's like saying the AI of a chess game can't be far off from the AI of robbers in GTA. Of course it is! In racing games, the AI isnt very advanced, first of all. And, second, it's main focus is try to go as fast as possible while not running into things. How you relate that to shooting is beyond me.

  • 07.20.2004 12:12 PM PDT
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That's not what I ment Shishka. That's not what I ment at all. What I ment was that it wouldn't be nearly as tough to just edit current Single Player AI then to redo them.

  • 07.20.2004 12:14 PM PDT
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screew the bots i have exbocx live and a lot of friens

  • 07.20.2004 12:14 PM PDT
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We have not made a final decision regarding bots yet. The team has heard the cries of fans and we're exploring ways to make multiplayer games more enjoyable for gamers with only 2 controllers and no Live access.

THERE IS A HUGE-ASS posibility of bots.

  • 07.20.2004 12:14 PM PDT
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Posted by: Shishka
Posted by: DualWieldinFreak
But, if you look at the last update, you could conclude that they are starting to work on bots now.


As for the original argument, it's completely wrong. Nowhere in the base AI will you find "Get in warthog, wait for friends, drive to enemy base, grab flag, return to warthog, go back to base." It's not as simple as a copy/paste into a multiplayer map. Specific rules have to be written for the AI to have any clue that they're supposed to do more than stand around in a vegetable like state, or just run around and fire at anyone that is a player. It's not simple at all.


True, but they still could use the parts like "dive behind cover", or "flank the enemy", stuff like that. MP strategies ARE very different, but Combat Strategies, in general, are basically the same thing.

  • 07.20.2004 12:19 PM PDT