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This topic has moved here: Subject: Different Beatdown system
  • Subject: Different Beatdown system
Subject: Different Beatdown system
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I don't want to rant about Halo 3s flaws here, simply try to improve the series to make better games for everyone.

I would confidently venture the estimate that 90% of players (or more) have Melee in their top 3 ToDs (Tool of Destruction).

It doesn't feel right that an FPS can feel like a boxing game at times, players choosing to beat down instead of shoot, because it's more effective - it doesn't feel right. I meet people who's #1 ToDs are Melee, often.

I think the beat down system should be reverted to at the very least, the Halo 2 system (less lunge, less accurate lunging & only kills if 0 shields remaining). I think reverting to Halo CEs non-lock on approach (as much as I would prefer it) is too harsh and unfamiliar for the players who've joined the series during the newer games.

Remove the right-shoulder assasinations, and remove the head from assassination counts, to stop "Spinja's" - Yes I know they're quite skilled, but it's just not fair for the Level 5 who gets you down to no shield for you to seemingly one hit him from infront of his face.

Make this FPS an FPS, not CoD meets Fight Night. Precise aiming, tactical grenades and good positioning should still determine fights, not lucky punches and "button bashing".

  • 07.22.2009 5:22 PM PDT
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Posted by: Gig4t3ch
Fact 2: European guys are hotter

I guess I can understand if you don't want to make out with guys in the US if they're so ugly, you should just say so though.

I agree with the less powerful beatdowns, but the Left shoulder 'Glitch' and ninja-ing people is not an actual glitch.

The left shoulder assassination is considered an assassination because you are hitting them in a very vunerable spot. Think about it, if you're holding a gun and someone hit you in your shoulder on an out-stretched arm, would it not be more effective than getting hit in your braced, clenched, right arm?

Ninja is a skill. Would you take no-scope headshots out because you are one shot and are seemingly dead to a level 5?

  • 07.22.2009 5:44 PM PDT
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Spinja is much easier than a no-scope headshot, and works on people with Overshields.

I didn't say they were glitches, I just don't think they were good additions to gameplay.

I agree that being hit there straight on would hurt a lot, but the real situation half the time is that you're above them, punching downwards, which wouldn't actually have that effect.
It's a case where I personally feel (and you're of course welcome to disagree) that realism detracts fun from gameplay.

Just to not get confused, I think the straight forward Ninja isn't as bad, it's a risk you take of being assassinated yourself (where you jump backwards over them and assassinate downwards), and quite an interesting discovery and addition to gameplay.

It's when you jump to their head height, look down, spin the aimer and punch (and granted an assassination) that I feel it's just not fair - and also quite luck based which is something I don't like in games with potential for skilled players.

Edit: I'm glad you agree the beatdowns should be weaker, despite our other disagreements :P

[Edited on 07.22.2009 5:55 PM PDT]

  • 07.22.2009 5:54 PM PDT

"I blame canser its going slutting itself around now so are bodys act like were aging faster stupid whore of a desies" ~ GruntX

I've got to be honest, Beat Downs are what make Halo Halo. It isn't a game focused "precise aiming, tactical grenades and good positioning". It's just as easy for you to say that the game supports "lucky punches and 'button bashing'" as it is for me to say that it supports "trigger-happiness, lucky grenade tosses, and hiding".

Halo is one of the few games you're forced to be on the move constantly. Because of this, players frequently come into close-range combat situations with one another. It's only natural that these man-to-man confrontations result in melee battles.

  • 07.22.2009 5:56 PM PDT
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Posted by: Gig4t3ch
Fact 2: European guys are hotter

I guess I can understand if you don't want to make out with guys in the US if they're so ugly, you should just say so though.

You're not thinking about playabilty, or what people like. You're thinking about what you like. Just because you fall for it alot, doesn't mean it's easy. I have never been ninja'd, but i do it all the time. I would not call it easy, it took me a while to learn and master.

  • 07.22.2009 5:57 PM PDT
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I'm fine with the existence of the beat down - I too do like it, despite how I act here, perhaps.

What I'm not fine with is when, in an FPS, I run in close quarters with an assault rifle, and I'm killed by a double beat down, they don't even fire their weapon half the time. - hypothetically, I would more than likely be the double beatdowner. (it sounds hypocritical, but I will use tactics I dislike, because I prefer that to dying, I'd just rather they didn't exist)

The Halo 2 system meant if someone shot, then punched they were far more likely to win, the difference between ar'ing your opponent for a while and punching, and double punching is too slight on the Halo 3 system.

[Edited on 07.22.2009 6:03 PM PDT]

  • 07.22.2009 5:59 PM PDT
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Posted by: AbeLincoln15
You're not thinking about playabilty, or what people like. You're thinking about what you like. Just because you fall for it alot, doesn't mean it's easy. I have never been ninja'd, but i do it all the time. I would not call it easy, it took me a while to learn and master.


Don't get me wrong, I use the ninja, spinja and pure beat downs often, and I never receive them, since I always jump in the CQBs too, so they don't work on me. If you look at my K/Ds you'll find I'm not struggling in this game in the slightest.

Yes, I'm talking about what I like, these things work by people agreeing, and whatever the more individuals like, happens (in democracy).

I think a lot of players enjoyed the Halo 2 system more, most who disagree, I feel disagree for the wrong reasons (such as feeling bad at Halo 2 because the ranking system gave them a lower number, even though it had the same implications as the higher numbers of Halo 3).

  • 07.22.2009 6:02 PM PDT
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well i think that the beat downs should stay strong for the hits to the back, but from the front it should do less, or insted of changing strength use the wepon to hit, that would do much more.

  • 07.22.2009 6:03 PM PDT

I think that getting up close to someone and punching them in the face (considering they can lift 300 lbs turrets) would do more damage than shooting someone from across the map, especially when they have armor on.

The beatdown system is fine the way it is.

  • 07.22.2009 6:05 PM PDT

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Remove melee lunge. Its introduction was too harsh of an introduction with older fans who had been with Halo the whole time, but we stuck around. New fans won't be scared off by the removal of melee lunge, and if they are, boo-hoo. Melee lunge is horrible because it makes melees too powerful no matter who you are. Melees should be something you need to aim. They are not so in Halo 2 and 3.

  • 07.22.2009 6:08 PM PDT

lol, I'm a ninja. I can't tell you how many hundreds of times I've been one shot and simply assassinate them from the front, just to hear them curse because they didn't know what happened.

Being ninja like that is skill, but it is still pretty cheap. Just because I've learned how to Ninja players and get easy assassinations doesn't mean it is not a flaw in Halo 3.

But yes, I never understood how a player has no shields and I'm ARing him in the face just to have him lunge and smack me. How is a spartan or elite melee more powerful than speeding led shot from a gun? That doesn't make any-sense.

I've come to the conclusions that Bungie brought in lunging and super powerful melee for those aren't good at Halo, for those who can't aim accurately just hit the B button when your close to someone and that will nearly kill them. Then they thought, "Wouldn't it be fun if both players could lunge at each other and both die at the same time, even if one of the players has more shield."

Bungie needs to make games for the Core gamer, I do grow tired of how "noob friendly" this game is sometimes, it is still the best multiplier out there though so I'll keep playing.

  • 07.22.2009 6:08 PM PDT
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Posted by: Runic Aries
I think that getting up close to someone and punching them in the face (considering they can lift 300 lbs turrets) would do more damage than shooting someone from across the map, especially when they have armor on.

The beatdown system is fine the way it is.


a skeletal system that could hold and manoeuvre a 300 lb turret would be able to withstand a punch also don't you think?

The power of a Spartan cancels out the defence of a Spartan, making them not so different to us, Bullets should hurt at least nearly as much as punches.

  • 07.22.2009 6:10 PM PDT
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Posted by: Blackprinze
lol, I'm a ninja. I can't tell you how many hundreds of times I've been one shot and simply assassinate them from the front, just to hear them curse because they didn't know what happened.

Being ninja like that is skill, but it is still pretty cheap. Just because I've learned how to Ninja players and get easy assassinations doesn't mean it is not a flaw in Halo 3.

But yes, I never understood how a player has no shields and I'm ARing him in the face just to have him lunge and smack me. How is a spartan or elite melee more powerful than speeding led shot from a gun? That doesn't make any-sense.

I've come to the conclusions that Bungie brought in lunging and super powerful melee for those aren't good at Halo, for those who can't aim accurately just hit the B button when your close to someone and that will nearly kill them. Then they thought, "Wouldn't it be fun if both players could lunge at each other and both die at the same time, even if one of the players has more shield."

Bungie needs to make games for the Core gamer, I do grow tired of how "noob friendly" this game is sometimes, it is still the best multiplier out there though so I'll keep playing.


Perhaps there could be custom options to reduce the power of melee, which perhaps some hardcore faction like MLG would incorporate into their system.

Players such as you and myself may not be the majority, but we are a large minority, and I think our requests should be met with at least a slight compromise.

[Edited on 07.22.2009 6:12 PM PDT]

  • 07.22.2009 6:11 PM PDT

Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Remove melee lunge. Its introduction was too harsh of an introduction with older fans who had been with Halo the whole time, but we stuck around. New fans won't be scared off by the removal of melee lunge, and if they are, boo-hoo. Melee lunge is horrible because it makes melees too powerful no matter who you are. Melees should be something you need to aim. They are not so in Halo 2 and 3.


Halo CE was purely about those who had precise aiming, those who learned how to lead shots using the Pistol and Sniper, it was never about beat-downs, and especially trying to melee someone twice was unheard of, by that time they would already have been killed by the AR or Pistol.

But why I quote you here is because I don't understand what you mean by "Melees should be something you need to aim."

What do you mean by that?

BTW the Halo: CE melee system was near perfect, it took into account a lot more factors than Halo 3's melee system does. In CE if I was falling when I melee that would hurt you more than a melee would standing still. Giving the player with the tactical advantage even more options.

  • 07.22.2009 6:23 PM PDT
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Posted by: Blackprinze
But why I quote you here is because I don't understand what you mean by "Melees should be something you need to aim."

What do you mean by that?


There was 0 lunge on Halo CEs beatdown, so you had to just line it up perfectly to hit them, that's all. Halo 3 just get somewhere near them and press the button and it lunges at them.

Halo 2s system also had other factors, a hit on the head was all their shield, a hit on the body was less.

[Edited on 07.22.2009 6:26 PM PDT]

  • 07.22.2009 6:25 PM PDT

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Posted by: Blackprinze
Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Remove melee lunge. Its introduction was too harsh of an introduction with older fans who had been with Halo the whole time, but we stuck around. New fans won't be scared off by the removal of melee lunge, and if they are, boo-hoo. Melee lunge is horrible because it makes melees too powerful no matter who you are. Melees should be something you need to aim. They are not so in Halo 2 and 3.


Halo CE was purely about those who had precise aiming, those who learned how to lead shots using the Pistol and Sniper, it was never about beat-downs, and especially trying to melee someone twice was unheard of, by that time they would already have been killed by the AR or Pistol.

But why I quote you here is because I don't understand what you mean by "Melees should be something you need to aim."

What do you mean by that?

BTW the Halo: CE melee system was near perfect, it took into account a lot more factors than Halo 3's melee system does. In CE if I was falling when I melee that would hurt you more than a melee would standing still. Giving the player with the tactical advantage even more options.
In H2 and H3, melees do not only hit infront of you, you lunge sideways to hit a target thanks to the massive auto aim on the lunge. The lunge in H3 is even worse than H2 in that it is a guaranteed hit unless there's some sort of glitch or lag.

  • 07.22.2009 6:44 PM PDT

keep the lunge, but lower the damage. Make weapons like the brute shot have a shorter lunge.

  • 07.22.2009 6:53 PM PDT

oh BTW MLG Cheehwawa. I played with you on Guardian couple weeks ago, I was very surprised to see some guy from a forum I look at every once in a while. You quit though midway through the game.

But yeah I think most can agree that Halo 3's melee system is a little ridiculous. Right now though I'm not sure if they could make it any worse in Reach.

I think of it like this. They changed in from Halo 1 to Halo 2 and from Halo 2 to Halo 3. So I'd say it is pretty safe to say that it is going to see change, the developers there at Bungie know and see their flaws. I know they realize that the whole Double Beat-down thing is not fun nor actually even fair, but maybe I expect to much.

[Edited on 07.22.2009 6:58 PM PDT]

  • 07.22.2009 6:56 PM PDT