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  • Subject: Varying spawn weapons?
Subject: Varying spawn weapons?

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Pinnacle of balance. Halo can do the same.

People have always been complaining that the weapon they spawn with is not a good enough weapon to defend themselves with.

Hence, varying spawn weapons.

varying spawn weapons allow players to spawn with whichever weapon they want. That way, if they need a sniper, they can spawn with one. If they need a shotgun, they can spawn with one, etc.

This may seem a lot like Call of Duty, but a way to keep Halo similar is to put weapons on the map.

So if you spawned with an SMG, but suddenly the situation turned into on where you needed a sniper, you could go find the sniper on the map.

Most people think that this would turn into a "camping fest." I disagree. How could it turn into a "camping fest" when games that already have varying spawn weapons, are not like that? Players still need to get points. Players still need to acquire strategical positions.

However most people (Including me) do not varying spawn weapons, but I think that this is a way for us to have varying spawn weapons, but still keep the basic Halo essentials intact. MLG Cheehwawa made a thread in which he supports a varying spawn weapon system for Halo.

However, in his version the varying spawn weapons come already set up for you. And this is where I think he made a mistake

I am a person who loves to have options, and his version just gives you 5 set versions. My idea will let you set up your own varying spawn weapons to your choosing:

UNSC
-Assault rifle*
-Battle rifle**
-SMG
-Light machine gun (Hopefully. Effective at medium range only)
-8-gauge shotgun***
-Rocket launcher
-Sniper rifle

Covenant
-Plasma rifle*
-Spiker
-Needler
-Carbine
-A Covenant light machine gun (Hopefully. Effective at medium range only)
-Plasma shotgun*
-Fuel Rod cannon
-Brute shot
-Beam rifle

Side Arms
-Magnum*
-Plasma Pistol*
-Mauler


Then would come equipment/grenades


Grenades
-Frag
-Plasma

Special Grenades
-Spike
-Flame

Equipment - One only
-Bubble shield
-Regenerator
-Power drain
-Flare
-Deployable cover
-Auto turret (Lasts only 30 seconds)
-Radar Jammer

For all the weapons with * next to them, please refer to MLG Cheehwawa's thread 1, thread 2 and to another thread of mine.
Posted by:MLG Cheehwawa
I would not be opposed to a class based system. It would fail terribly on the current style Halo maps, but if the game was made larger scale, with more emphasis on skill and teamwork, then I think classes could work well. It would be a different genre of game for the Halo universe, like Halo Wars was, but I think it would be a nice change (despite Halo 1 being my favorite game of all time, by far).

It wouldn't work with Halo 1/2/3 style maps, but with larger more realistic maps, it would work, like it does in Battlefront, Battlefield, Crysis, etc. -- you never see camping in those games unless you/your teammates don't go take them out after they die. It's easy to see where you die from, just spawn as a sniper and go after them. If they kill you, they are simply a better sniper.

Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Posted by: BaKPaK o
No classes are call of duty stuff. If you made classes it would no longer be like halo
This logic is FLAWED.

First off, COD isn't a real class-based game. Something like Team Fortress 2 is a real class-based game (the sort that Inkognito is suggesting).

Second off, if adding classes would make Halo into COD/Battlefield/Battlefront/Whatever, then NOT having classes has already made Halo into Quake and all other FPSes which came before it!


FAQ

Posted by: Kealan 02
Absolutely No. Halo is not CoD, and we want to keep it that way. The reason the CoD classes work is because they aren't using the same weapons as us. In Halo, there are certain small, less powerful weapons, and then there are power weapons.

Even if you made it so you could only choose power weapons, everyone would spawn with BR's and maulers and then just carry on as they normally do, fighting for the power weapons.

You people are so short sighted. I am NOT talking about implementing this in Halo 1, 2, or 3. I am talking about maybe implementing this in a totally knew game where all the weapons are balanced.

Just for the sake of example, look at Infinity wards maps for CoD4. They are the pinnacle of balance.

On almost every map, you can dominate as a sniper, but somebody with an SMG can always take you out. You can use an assault rifle effectively, but there is always the light machine gunner there to get you.

So what if a sniper is camping? THAT IS THE POINT OF A SNIPER. Even if a sniper is camping, you shoot a rocket at them.

Basically what I am saying is that if Bungie balances the maps out, something I am confident they can do, there will be no problem.

If everyone spawning with rockets and snipers is your concern, look at CoD4, W@W and other class based games. Does everyone spawn with rockets and snipers? No. Some do, but that is because they are good with those weapons.

Why would Halo: Reach be any different?


But if there where classes, just think of how many brilliant H3 game-types would fail. Such as all the Robbers in a Cops and Robbers game type spawning with Rocket Launchers.
Take the hint: CUSTOM games.

You can change the settings so people spawn with a default weapon.

The point of halo is that all you bring to the battlefield is your AR, a pair of grenades and your own experience. No we are not going to make CoD and Halo the same game so you only have to buy one. Halo is Halo, CoD is Cod now anyone who still wants classes go buy "Gears of Halo Theft Auto 5: Modern Warfare"
Why would this change?

People would still go in with a pair of grenades and their experience. Expect that now, it is a weapon that they like and are good with.

This would stop a lot of team killing and frustration. Now if someone is a good sniper, he/she no longer needs to wait for it to spawn after some incompetent teammate picks the only sniper up.

IMPORTANT:

You guys seem to be thinking that Halo: Reach will have the same gameplay, same weapons, and same health system.

Classes WILL NOT WORK with Halo 3 weapons or maps. That is why it is up to Bungie to BALANCE the weapons and maps so someone who spawns with an assault rifle or an SMG will not fall prey to one with a sniper, etc.

I am so sick of repeating this.

What if you could only spawn with the following:

UNSC
-Assault rifle
-Battle rifle
-SMG
-Light machine gun (Hopefully. Effective at medium range only)
-8-gauge shotgun

Covenant
-Plasma rifle
-Spiker
-Needler
-Carbine
-A Covenant light machine gun (Hopefully. Effective at medium range only)
-Plasma shotgun
-Brute shot
-Energy Sword

Side arms
-Magnum
-Plasma Pistol
-Mauler

And grenades, and maybe equipment.

Snipers, and rockets, and any other "power" weapons cannot be spawned with, but are placed on the maps, and players fight for control over them.

Is that better?

And weapons can be perfectly balanced, yet be different.

For example there is the assault rifle, similar to the Halo 1 version, but more accurate, and a few less bullets in the mag.

Then there is the plasma rifle, same range as the assault rifle, but it stuns on head shots so you move slower.

Then there is the spiker which has the same range, but it is a bust weapon and on a kill shot, nails enemies to the wall (if there is one behind them). Plus the bullets arc down.

Weapons are perfectly balanced not by being the same. Weapons are perfectly balanced when they have an EQUAL AMOUNT OF PROS AND CONS. That way, if you like a weapon, you can be good with it. But if you don't like a weapon, it won't serve you well.

Common people this is common sense here.


THERE IS MORE TO THE OP IN MY FIRST POST DOWN.

DO NOT REPLY UNTIL YOU HAVE READ EVERYTHING


[Edited on 08.21.2009 7:03 PM PDT]

  • 07.25.2009 5:52 PM PDT
Subject: Why classes?
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"Your rank, K/D ratio, medals, and achievements will all amount to nothing. When it comes down to it, it is just a video game. So ask yourself, are you having fun?" :: Jagwire

No, it just wouldnt be Halo anymore

  • 07.25.2009 5:57 PM PDT

No matter how neatly the argument is set out, I'll never approve of classes in Halo. If you don't like the weapon you spawn with, pick up another one.

  • 07.25.2009 5:59 PM PDT

Posted by: Wolverfrog
No matter how neatly the argument is set out, I'll never approve of classes in Halo. If you don't like the weapon you spawn with, pick up another one.


I don't know. Halo Reach may already be based on classes. That giant Mech suit guy at the top doesn't look like a traditional Spartan Mark III or IV armor. Kind of looks like a Heavy.

  • 07.25.2009 6:00 PM PDT

Ugh...

First on a BWU.. yeah, I'm cool.

ODST;MYTHIC Screenshot winner! One of the first to get their hands on the mythic map pack.

No. That is all I am really going to say.

  • 07.25.2009 6:00 PM PDT

everyone will magically end up with rockets and snipers and itl take the gameplay away = no fun

  • 07.25.2009 6:03 PM PDT

OP PART 2
Halo is defined by its story, not its game play. Without its story Halo would just be another Quake:
Posted by: SWOOSH 0309
Are you sure it wouldn't be Halo anymore? I thought Halo was defined by its story, not by its gameplay. Without Halo's story, it just becomes another Quake-style game, but its story makes it unique. Are you telling me that just because the gameplay changes, you wouldn't be able to distinguish the game as Halo anymore?

In a class system, THERE ARE NO POWER WEAPONS. To each player, there preferred weapon seems like the best weapon in the game because they are GOOD WITH THAT WEAPON.

The rocket launcher can be balanced by making the rocket veer off course after a certain distance, the sniper should have a larger spread when hip-fired, etc.

Everything can be balanced out to work:
Maps/guns can be designed to prevent any one type of weapon from dominating. Just for the sake of example, lets look at the map Ambush from CoD 4:

On that map, I can spawn with a sniper. And I normally do. Now when I get into a sniper position, I have a good field of view, and can dominate the other team.

Now you may be thinking that this is just proving your point, but wait! There's more.

While a few other guys and I spawn with snipers, a lot more people spawn with assault rifles, battle rifles, SMGs, and light machine guns.

Now the map is designed so that a good sniper can dominate. But at the same time, it doesn't mean that a guy with an uzi can't come and get me.

Each sniper position has its pros and cons. The blue walled building that is a typical spot is good because it is hard to see the sniper in there. But it is also bad because there is only one way out. Which also happens to be the only way in. So you can be fragged out, gunned out, etc.

So what normally happens is that the few snipers on each team fight each other to prevent the enemy snipers from destroying our guys that are not sniping.

For those you that say that there will be camping. Yes, there is camping in EVERY game. But at least in games with classes, if a guy is camping with a shotgun, you can get your own shotgun and stop him from camping instead of failing your BR around trying to make him run out of ammo.

And you seem to think that the broken system we have had since Halo 2 is the only way to go.

Why are you guys so ignorant? Why can't you guys accept that maybe, classes would be an improvement to Halo? Who cares what other game has done this? I would propose classes even if Call of Duty 4 didn't exist. I played Halo 1, 2, and 3, and frankly, the only one that did not frustrate me was Halo 1. Halo 2 and 3 are all about the BR, sniper and the rocket launcher. Halo 3 is the same way but you can add the assault rifle to that list.

What I am saying is that either we have a Halo 1 style game with balanced weapons, or we can create 4 custom classes using balanced weapons.

Custom classes can be balanced, look at CoD4! Is their camping? yes, but at least in CoD4 you don't have to wait for the only shotgun to re spawn.

A game shouldn't be about who can get the better weapon, a game should be about who can kill someone faster. Basically, who has more gun skill.


[Edited on 08.15.2009 2:42 PM PDT]

  • 07.25.2009 6:06 PM PDT
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In a class based game everything has to be too balanced. Power weapons on map is a superior system.

  • 07.25.2009 6:06 PM PDT

What do you mean?

Posted by: Bullet _ Sponge
In a class based game everything has to be too balanced. Power weapons on map is a superior system.

  • 07.25.2009 6:08 PM PDT

Posted by: TW InKoGnIto
How do you know? Look at other games with classes. Does that happen?

Posted by: KraZy KaZ19
everyone will magically end up with rockets and snipers and itl take the gameplay away = no fun


it might not happen in these other mysterious games that your talking about but itl happen with halo. everyone knows that to get points and wins you need a kickass gun up till now on halo youv had to run for it = strategy:) also weapons vary too much in halo and will be unbalanced

  • 07.25.2009 6:10 PM PDT

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The Halo REACH Script (post thoughts in thread)

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I do like the idea of classes, and being able to choose your own weapon... I included the 5 basic classes based on the physiques of the Spartans in the banner, as well as a blank 6th "custom class" where players could allocate the attribute points as they please, and choose their spawn weapons.

This class would look like the Chief in Halo 1 (basic MJOLNIR Mk V) to differentiate it from the others...

  • 07.25.2009 6:12 PM PDT
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Posted by: TW InKoGnIto
What do you mean?

Posted by: Bullet _ Sponge
In a class based game everything has to be too balanced. Power weapons on map is a superior system.


Fighting for weapons on map creates gameplay with tactics as opposed to spawning with what you want and camping all game. In Halo you have to leave your camping spot to get the respawning power weapons or its game over.

  • 07.25.2009 6:13 PM PDT

Posted by: Bullet _ Sponge
Posted by: TW InKoGnIto
What do you mean?

Posted by: Bullet _ Sponge
In a class based game everything has to be too balanced. Power weapons on map is a superior system.


Fighting for weapons on map creates gameplay with tactics as opposed to spawning with what you want and camping all game. In Halo you have to leave your camping spot to get the respawning power weapons or its game over.


Well if it was purely slayer I could see how there could be potential problems. Unless maps initial geometry somehow defied this, they would have to have amazing flow and balance, nothing that Bungie couldn't pull off. Also, it the game was based on Classes it would seem that all gameplay would turn into Objective game-types, which I'm fine with because Objective Game-types require slaying your opponent.

I have a good feeling Reach will be a new breed of the Class Based Shooter, similar in how they redefined the FPS back when Halo: CE came out.

  • 07.25.2009 6:29 PM PDT
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This was Dootuz117 but i changed accounts
M!
97% OF TEENS WON'T STAND UP FOR GOD. IF YOU'RE ONE OF THE 3% WHO WILL, PUT THIS IN YOUR SIG.
Posted by: just another fan
Yeah, because we all know that weird guys on youtube always speak the truth.

Posted by: Hot Sauce 147
Posting on bungie.net should require that the user has had to have read a chapter book all the way through.

Please we don't want them. This is HALO! Not COD.

I hate the class system in COD.

See it wasn't bad in the early COD games but in the new ones where you can make your own classes. That's dumb, you can spawn with overpowered weapons. and Perks and stuff NO.


KEEP IT CLEAN.

NOT COD!

[Edited on 07.25.2009 7:31 PM PDT]

  • 07.25.2009 7:29 PM PDT
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Posted by: Blackprinze
Posted by: Bullet _ Sponge
Posted by: TW InKoGnIto
What do you mean?

Posted by: Bullet _ Sponge
In a class based game everything has to be too balanced. Power weapons on map is a superior system.


Fighting for weapons on map creates gameplay with tactics as opposed to spawning with what you want and camping all game. In Halo you have to leave your camping spot to get the respawning power weapons or its game over.


Well if it was purely slayer I could see how there could be potential problems. Unless maps initial geometry somehow defied this, they would have to have amazing flow and balance, nothing that Bungie couldn't pull off. Also, it the game was based on Classes it would seem that all gameplay would turn into Objective game-types, which I'm fine with because Objective Game-types require slaying your opponent.

I have a good feeling Reach will be a new breed of the Class Based Shooter, similar in how they redefined the FPS back when Halo: CE came out.


Even in objective games you need to control the map. This is done with the weapons on map. Almost every shooter out there is classed based. Why change Halo into something we all ready have too many off? Better yet, why change Halo? If you want a different experience play a different game.

  • 07.25.2009 7:35 PM PDT

You guys are thinking of power weapons. But what if Bungie balanced it out so a power weapon weren't so overbearing.

And at some point you will run out of ammo.

Posted by: Bullet _ Sponge
Posted by: TW InKoGnIto
What do you mean?

Posted by: Bullet _ Sponge
In a class based game everything has to be too balanced. Power weapons on map is a superior system.


Fighting for weapons on map creates gameplay with tactics as opposed to spawning with what you want and camping all game. In Halo you have to leave your camping spot to get the respawning power weapons or its game over.

And a quick thing about your statement "Why change halo?" We should change Halo in order to make it better.

I am not saying that a class system would make it better...

[Edited on 07.25.2009 7:38 PM PDT]

  • 07.25.2009 7:36 PM PDT
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Posted by: TW InKoGnIto
You guys are thinking of power weapons. But what if Bungie balanced it out so a power weapon weren't so overbearing.

And at some point you will run out of ammo.

Posted by: Bullet _ Sponge
Posted by: TW InKoGnIto
What do you mean?

Posted by: Bullet _ Sponge
In a class based game everything has to be too balanced. Power weapons on map is a superior system.


Fighting for weapons on map creates gameplay with tactics as opposed to spawning with what you want and camping all game. In Halo you have to leave your camping spot to get the respawning power weapons or its game over.

And a quick thing about your statement "Why change halo?" We should change Halo in order to make it better.

I am not saying that a class system would make it better...


Let me rephrase that. Why change th overall fundamentals of Halo?

  • 07.25.2009 7:41 PM PDT

PLEASE DO NOT SEND ME GROUP INVITATIONS

The Halo REACH Script (post thoughts in thread)

Writing Lead of Whisper Studios. Check out Heron!

Look... I'm on bungiepedia!

Posted by: Bullet _ Sponge
Posted by: TW InKoGnIto
You guys are thinking of power weapons. But what if Bungie balanced it out so a power weapon weren't so overbearing.

And at some point you will run out of ammo.

Posted by: Bullet _ Sponge
Posted by: TW InKoGnIto
What do you mean?

Posted by: Bullet _ Sponge
In a class based game everything has to be too balanced. Power weapons on map is a superior system.


Fighting for weapons on map creates gameplay with tactics as opposed to spawning with what you want and camping all game. In Halo you have to leave your camping spot to get the respawning power weapons or its game over.

And a quick thing about your statement "Why change halo?" We should change Halo in order to make it better.

I am not saying that a class system would make it better...


Let me rephrase that. Why change th overall fundamentals of Halo?
I would not be opposed to a class based system. It would fail terribly on the current style Halo maps, but if the game was made larger scale, with more emphasis on skill and teamwork, then I think classes could work well. It would be a different genre of game for the Halo universe, like Halo Wars was, but I think it would be a nice change (despite Halo 1 being my favorite game of all time, by far).

  • 07.25.2009 7:46 PM PDT

New Mombasa is an awesome group :D

The Jetpack Association - Time to get your thrusters warmed up

no

  • 07.25.2009 7:53 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Classes would ruin Halo. 'nuff said.

  • 07.25.2009 8:00 PM PDT
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I would hate classes in halo. The point of halo is to be able to control the map, not spawn with rockets/sniper everytime you spawn.

  • 07.25.2009 8:01 PM PDT
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I personally refuse to play class based games because I find them boring. I would hate to see Halo become one.

  • 07.25.2009 8:01 PM PDT

People have always been complaining that the weapon they spawn with is not a good enough weapon to defend themselves with.

Well I don't think it's that. I just think that it gets boring not having any say in what weapons you start with. I'm not apposed to classes so long as balance is maintained. Not saying Camp of Duty is what I want but being able to start with a Carbine and Spiker as apposed to the same old BR+AR or AR+magnum would be nice. It would also create more variety in gameplay. I'm so tired of the same old tactics and the same old starting weapons.



[Edited on 07.25.2009 8:08 PM PDT]

  • 07.25.2009 8:06 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

There is already way too many classed based shooters.

CoD, Rainbow six, Bad company, and Team Fortress 2 are perfect examples.

Halo is fine the way it is.

  • 07.25.2009 8:08 PM PDT
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I guarantee 343 will completely change th series. Halo:Reach will probably be the last Halo game I religiously.

  • 07.25.2009 8:19 PM PDT