Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Why classes?
  • Subject: Why classes?
Subject: Why classes?
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: B R Y
No, it just wouldnt be Halo anymore

  • 08.07.2009 5:16 PM PDT

I apologize if it sounded like i wanted everyone to spawn with snipers. I was meaning to say the that most everyone would choose that and it would make every match into a sniper match. Its obvious not everyone wants that (example here is the fact there is a sniper game type).

[Edited on 08.07.2009 8:18 PM PDT]

  • 08.07.2009 7:16 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

(-_-) Bored Face

Using class based gameplay could feel like the switch from CE to Halo 2 when Bungie made all those changes. And that wasn't nessesarily a bad thing. Nasi zombies doesn't realy suit COD either, but no one seems to care because it adds an interesting and fun addition to gameplay. Saying that you want Halo to stay static and be ignorant of all the things that could make it more enjoyable isn't fair to people who want to see it evolve not just by simply adding weapons or more gametypes. Having classes could even just be in a single playlist or a option in custom games, but even knowing that most people automaticaly say things like this. "This isn't COD! ", "Halo needs to stay Halo!", and "Holy -blam!- you must be stupid if you want Halo to explore more frontiers! Nope Halo should stay the way it's been for 10 years and not give a -blam!- about people that want more than just new weapons, or whatever."

  • 08.07.2009 7:37 PM PDT

I know what your sayign but i still feel that classes would not mesh right with the gaming style of Halo. If it were a different kind of multi player it sure as hell would be interesting. I mean weve got firefight coming off and thats a toss over to gears of war 2's horde mode in similarities it shows that modes and changes can be added for fun little bits of difference. But a game shouldn't have to reinvent itself for the sake of being different. I cant tell you how much ive enjoyed laning every game of the halo franchise and i guarantee ill lan odst and reach when they hit. classes just take away from one of the more fun aspects of halo for me, zone control, its not necessarily as fun to control the rockets when anyone can spawn with them. i mean lets all try to hold down the area in snow bound with everyone on their team spawning with shotty's or swords just because our team held down the fort better. It tips the scale towards a team that dies more.

  • 08.07.2009 8:17 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

How is FireFight a toss over to horde in Gears? Survival mode in Games have been popular for a long time, hell, even Marathon Durandal has a Survival mode.

  • 08.07.2009 8:43 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Halo is a game built for options. Classes would remove lots of the things you could do with the game. It'd be like removing one of your lungs.

  • 08.07.2009 8:45 PM PDT

How? In custom games you could set a default spawn weapon that would override any classes.

Posted by: Lunatic__Brandon
Halo is a game built for options. Classes would remove lots of the things you could do with the game. It'd be like removing one of your lungs.

  • 08.07.2009 8:48 PM PDT

Halo is a medium paced shooter. CoD is a fast paced shooter.

Classes have little to do with changing the pace of a game. The only reason COD seems more fast paced is because its a game with humans not spartan's, the maps are much smaller, you can sprint, and spawns are faster. That doesn't mean more player to player confrontations, it just means faster kills. I would say halo is more fast paced. With shields more people go on the offensive and with vehicles you can navigate to anywhere on a map in seconds.

The only thing now is that instead of weapon control, you need to focus on map control, getting the position, and holding it!

Why take away a critical element of the game? In halo you have to control key positions AND weapons. This adds more strategy to the game. What your proposing is limiting strategy to revolve solely around positioning. In games like Halo and quake the map makers can create alot more risk vs reward situations with weapon placement. Its not just rush the best vantage point and camp. Its much more complex. i like it that way and i hope they stick to that formula.

Nobody should be able to spawn with a shotgun, sniper rifle or rockets all game long. I like the fact that players are punished for dying by losing their weapons and rewarded for killing opponents with stronger weapons. Its just better. Who would like to kill the opponents sniper just to have them spawn again and continue sniping? Or in a flag game how the hell could you get a cap if they can consistently spawn with rockets or a shotgun and camp the flag. If you can spawn with rockets your basically removing the last remnants of a skill gap this game has. Limited ammo wouldn't work because players would just kill themselves or betray to refresh power weapon ammo. You can't solve any of these problems without significantly limiting the overall effectiveness of the power weapons. Or else you end up with a game where only two or three weapons are used the entire game and a bunch of lonely vehicles that nobody uses anymore.

Another thing that must be kept in mind is that with the weapons on map system map creators have more control over the flow of the map and can disable weapons and vehicles that don't belong on certain maps. Adding classes might only clutter gameplay to one or two spots on a map and allow players to spawn with weapons that should be very limited in number or even non existent on certain maps and gametypes.

The sniper position in question is on the second floor of a damaged building. There are two holes in the wall that a sniper can look through, however, one is worthless because of the fact that it is facing a building, and you cannot really see the street/pathway below it.

They only way out/in is not easy to defend. If all I have is a sniper and a pistol, someone can shoot a rocket into the hole in the way and kill me. They can also frag me out, and if I try to go out the door, boom, I get hit by assault rifles.


Your point? Dead ends in general just hurt the flow and connectivity of a map.

  • 08.07.2009 8:53 PM PDT

Posted by: jerbearzzz
Classes have little to do with changing the pace of a game. The only reason COD seems more fast paced is because its a game with humans not spartan's, the maps are much smaller, you can sprint, and spawns are faster. That doesn't mean more player to player confrontations, it just means faster kills. I would say halo is more fast paced. With shields more people go on the offensive and with vehicles you can navigate to anywhere on a map in seconds.

I never said that classes make a game faster pace. I just said that CoD was a fast paced shooter.

Why take away a critical element of the game? In halo you have to control key positions AND weapons. This adds more strategy to the game. What your proposing is limiting strategy to revolve solely around positioning. In games like Halo and quake the map makers can create alot more risk vs reward situations with weapon placement. Its not just rush the best vantage point and camp. Its much more complex. i like it that way and i hope they stick to that formula.
Ah ha. Positioning can be very difficult, especially in objective games. With proper map layout, finding the proper positioning, and holding it, can be as difficult and unique as it is currently in Halo 3.

Nobody should be able to spawn with a shotgun, sniper rifle or rockets all game long. I like the fact that players are punished for dying by losing their weapons and rewarded for killing opponents with stronger weapons. Its just better. Who would like to kill the opponents sniper just to have them spawn again and continue sniping? Or in a flag game how the hell could you get a cap if they can consistently spawn with rockets or a shotgun and camp the flag. If you can spawn with rockets your basically removing the last remnants of a skill gap this game has. Limited ammo wouldn't work because players would just kill themselves or betray to refresh power weapon ammo. You can't solve any of these problems without significantly limiting the overall effectiveness of the power weapons. Or else you end up with a game where only two or three weapons are used the entire game and a bunch of lonely vehicles that nobody uses anymore.
Do you have that little faith in people? Look at other class based games. People do not only spawn with those weapons that you mention. Why? Because they are balanced. The shotgun is difficult to use because most players see you before you can get in close enough. The rocket launcher isn't always used because it has few shots and veers off course. The sniper is the easiest to balance. By making it so you can't no-scope very easily, only those that are good with the sniper will spawn with it.

The reason why this can't work for you is because you are thinking of a system that has power weapons. A good game DOES NOT have POWER weapons. Each weapon has an equal amount of pros and cons, therefore, if you are good with said weapon, it seems like the best gun in the game to you, even though some other player might hate your favorite weapon.

Another thing that must be kept in mind is that with the weapons on map system map creators have more control over the flow of the map and can disable weapons and vehicles that don't belong on certain maps. Adding classes might only clutter gameplay to one or two spots on a map and allow players to spawn with weapons that should be very limited in number or even non existent on certain maps and gametypes.
There is a sniper on Guardian. I am sorry, but that makes no sense to me.

Again, you are assuming that my proposed system would be implemented with Halo 3's guns and maps. THAT CANNOT WORK. What can work is if the maps and game types, etc. are adapted to work and flow.

Your point? Dead ends in general just hurt the flow and connectivity of a map.

You misinterpret what I said. The 'dead end' that you are thinking of is a building with two stories, and one stair case. It works fine.

[Edited on 08.08.2009 10:05 AM PDT]

  • 08.07.2009 10:26 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Mythic Member
  • gamertag: Kalriq
  • user homepage:

Twitter.
WyIdfyre: 'lol, who the hell would even wear those?'
AuSam: 'lol, who the hell would even have sex with dogs?'

-K-

I wouldnt mind taking falling damage once in a while,
Its to often that in Infection you corner someone and they jump out the window, with classes should also give out different augmentation, so certain Spartans can take different damage falling or whatever.
My favourite idea I noticed was the armour permutation based classes. That seemed to have more potential to fit them in, rather than just being heavy you are E.O.D rather than being sniper you are a scout,
You can unlock classes like you do armour permutations in Halo 3 perhaps?
-K-

  • 08.08.2009 4:43 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

why every 1 thinking guns? it could be armor classes like certin armor gives speed boost or be able to take more damage i wouldent be a bad idea can put a big twist on the game also make more skill involved like for objective games, but it the classes are guns all power wepons should remain on map an not be able to pick them for a spawning wepon, a class should be like this

(if the wepon class was like this i would prolly approve of it)

Battle rifle / Battle rifle / SMG
pistol ----- Mauler ----- pistol
[plasma][2] / [plasma][2] / [frag][2]

assult rifle / assault rifle
mauler / . pistol
[spiker][2] / [frag][2]

something like that, primary wepons should all be wepons that dont have a big advantage, if the wepon class was like this it would be the same halo but maby better, primarys should be BR.AR.SMG.Carbine, Secondarys. Pistol, Plasma Pistol, Mauler, Spiker, Then a pick of what ever nade u choose


ps.{i dont see why halo needs to change the way it is just because alot of other games are class based halo it why its so good because its a game of its own but now its wanting to change an be like other games an i do get it =/}

[Edited on 08.08.2009 7:00 AM PDT]

  • 08.08.2009 6:38 AM PDT

Halo doesn't have to change. But after 10 years of monotonous game play, the time is ripe for Halo to revolutionize the class based shooter. The same way it revolutionized the FPS 9 years ago.

  • 08.08.2009 10:05 AM PDT

I wouldn't mind fall damage so long as you could turn it off in private games. Same with classes, if should be able to turn them off in custom games as well.

Posted by: Kalriq
I wouldnt mind taking falling damage once in a while,
Its to often that in Infection you corner someone and they jump out the window, with classes should also give out different augmentation, so certain Spartans can take different damage falling or whatever.
My favourite idea I noticed was the armour permutation based classes. That seemed to have more potential to fit them in, rather than just being heavy you are E.O.D rather than being sniper you are a scout,
You can unlock classes like you do armour permutations in Halo 3 perhaps?
-K-

  • 08.11.2009 11:29 AM PDT

The reason why I want classes is because the most annoying thing is when a lousy teammate picks up the only sniper on the map, or the enemy gets the only rocket launcher.

With classes, you don't have to worry about that because if there is an enemy sniper, boom you can spawn with a sniper and get him back, etc.

  • 08.13.2009 10:54 AM PDT

"I only speak two languages: English and Bad English,"
-Bruce Willis, The Fifth Element

I escaped into the waves. The waves...
I went Underground!

It would be unbalanced.

  • 08.13.2009 10:59 AM PDT

Did you read the OP at all?!

Posted by: Havoc 101
It would be unbalanced.

  • 08.13.2009 11:00 AM PDT

"I only speak two languages: English and Bad English,"
-Bruce Willis, The Fifth Element

I escaped into the waves. The waves...
I went Underground!

Posted by: TW InKoGnIto
Did you read the OP at all?!

Posted by: Havoc 101
It would be unbalanced.

Yes, I did.

  • 08.13.2009 11:01 AM PDT

Then would you be so kind to post a legitimate reason as to why? Based off what both parts of the OP stated?

  • 08.13.2009 11:02 AM PDT

"I only speak two languages: English and Bad English,"
-Bruce Willis, The Fifth Element

I escaped into the waves. The waves...
I went Underground!

Posted by: TW InKoGnIto
Then would you be so kind to post a legitimate reason as to why? Based off what both parts of the OP stated?

The Needler. It's a badass weapon even though most people don't realize it. Half a clip and your dead. Once people realize it, teams will spam with it. I suggest taking the needler out.

  • 08.13.2009 11:10 AM PDT

You did not read the OP. Otherwise you would know that weapons can be balanced so that they are not dominating weapons.

The easiest way to do this is to make each weapon have an equal amount of pros and cons. For the needler, you can increase the number of needles you need to kill, and decrease the total ammo count by a little.

Posted by: Havoc 101
Posted by: TW InKoGnIto
Then would you be so kind to post a legitimate reason as to why? Based off what both parts of the OP stated?

The Needler. It's a badass weapon even though most people don't realize it. Half a clip and your dead. Once people realize it, teams will spam with it. I suggest taking the needler out.

  • 08.13.2009 11:29 AM PDT

"I only speak two languages: English and Bad English,"
-Bruce Willis, The Fifth Element

I escaped into the waves. The waves...
I went Underground!

Posted by: TW InKoGnIto
You did not read the OP. Otherwise you would know that weapons can be balanced so that they are not dominating weapons.

The easiest way to do this is to make each weapon have an equal amount of pros and cons. For the needler, you can increase the number of needles you need to kill, and decrease the total ammo count by a little.

Posted by: Havoc 101
Posted by: TW InKoGnIto
Then would you be so kind to post a legitimate reason as to why? Based off what both parts of the OP stated?

The Needler. It's a badass weapon even though most people don't realize it. Half a clip and your dead. Once people realize it, teams will spam with it. I suggest taking the needler out.

Stop accusing me of things you'll never be sure of. I read the OP, and I know that it can be balanced. But if there is going to be a needler in Reach, I doubt Bungie would make it weak again, so they can get idiot messages.

If the needler was balanced, it would only really be effective when dual-weilded, like in Halo 2, but you'd have to wait for a team-mate with the needler to die to get a hold of two.

I also have the odd feeling you think I'm flaming you. I'm not. I'm giving out suggestions.

[Edited on 08.13.2009 11:36 AM PDT]

  • 08.13.2009 11:36 AM PDT

Posted by: Havoc 101
Stop accusing me of things you'll never be sure of. I read the OP, and I know that it can be balanced. But if there is going to be a needler in Reach, I doubt Bungie would make it weak again, so they can get idiot messages.

Sorry, but I have put up with 11 pages of flaming from people who haven't read the OP.

And making something balanced doesn't mean that it is weak. It just means that you can't just go running about all williy-nilly spraying. You have to understand the weapon, and know how to use it.

If the needler was balanced, it would only really be effective when dual-weilded, like in Halo 2, but you'd have to wait for a team-mate with the needler to die to get a hold of two.You don't need to make it dual-wieldable. Look at the Halo 1 needler. That was a great weapon, but it wasn't over powering.

And on maps like the Pit, nobody picks up the needler. (From my experience)

I also have the odd feeling you think I'm flaming you. I'm not. I'm giving out suggestions.
Again, sorry, I have put up with 11 pages of it, so I am a little defensive.

  • 08.13.2009 11:42 AM PDT

"I only speak two languages: English and Bad English,"
-Bruce Willis, The Fifth Element

I escaped into the waves. The waves...
I went Underground!

Posted by: TW InKoGnIto
Posted by: Havoc 101
Stop accusing me of things you'll never be sure of. I read the OP, and I know that it can be balanced. But if there is going to be a needler in Reach, I doubt Bungie would make it weak again, so they can get idiot messages.

Sorry, but I have put up with 11 pages of flaming from people who haven't read the OP.

And making something balanced doesn't mean that it is weak. It just means that you can't just go running about all williy-nilly spraying. You have to understand the weapon, and know how to use it.

If the needler was balanced, it would only really be effective when dual-weilded, like in Halo 2, but you'd have to wait for a team-mate with the needler to die to get a hold of two.You don't need to make it dual-wieldable. Look at the Halo 1 needler. That was a great weapon, but it wasn't over powering.

And on maps like the Pit, nobody picks up the needler. (From my experience)

I also have the odd feeling you think I'm flaming you. I'm not. I'm giving out suggestions.
Again, sorry, I have put up with 11 pages of it, so I am a little defensive.

That's ok. People just don't like Halo to have big changes that could improve gameplay. I haven't used the Halo 1 needler in a while, but that might work.

  • 08.13.2009 11:47 AM PDT

Mythical Group

There is no greater catharsis than arguing on the Flood.

I wish people would stop running to CoD as an example of a class-based shooter. It's not even classes, it's picking your spawning weapon, which is also the only difference between players.

  • 08.13.2009 12:00 PM PDT

Thank you. And the Halo 1 needler is pretty good.

Posted by: Phoenix9508
I wish people would stop running to CoD as an example of a class-based shooter. It's not even classes, it's picking your spawning weapon, which is also the only difference between players.

And I agree. But it doesn't help that they refer to those custom classes as well, classes.

  • 08.13.2009 1:04 PM PDT