Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Why classes?
  • Subject: Why classes?
Subject: Why classes?

------------>Alright this is getting i think a little pathetic for a few reasons one were exactly did we all hear of this so called class system in the first place?
------------->Secondly most games with class systems have some kind of perks that go with the class, TF2 medic needle gun *i guess* can heal units, Demo explosives, stick bombs, i can go on. COD everyone starts at level 1 get better guns as they level up, really? for halo that would get boring fast. Level 20 Halo CE pistol, halo ain't a game that can be looked at like COD. O yea don't forget about the perks COD Iron Lung? Really alright lets see that in Halo wait a minute i already have iron lung so does everyone else cause there's no realistic thing that makes your characters breathing affect your gameplay.
-------------->Halo yes they can make alot of new stuff for but it won't fit the game. Halo books, and seeing how Reach is before Halo CE that wouldn't make alot of sense now would it. I personally hope it stays the same way with the halo gameplay. Yes classes seems like a great idea but to a point there's not much you can really do with that and only about what 3 classes? that be like battlefield 1943 or heroes. I hope this game stays the way it should. But its not what we think its what Bungie thinks is good for us.
(>^_^)><(^_^<)(>^o^)><(^o^<)(>^_^) ><(^_^<)(>^o^)><(^o^<)(>^_^)><( ^_^<)(>^o^)><(^o^<)

And one last thing Just leave it alone it'll come out when it does. With all you people getting ansy pansy about the smallest rumor you either get completely bamboozled out of your freaking mind and hate it and complain like every one else or you completely love the idea, but then when they announce it and show you all hell releases cause you were told differently. So until there official news from them i think everyone should just be either thinking of cool things that they wish could happen or play a game or go outside.
Dam where's the seven column when you need it

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  • 08.17.2009 12:51 PM PDT

Posted by: porkstein
I'm going to approach this from another direction.

Opinions.

Do you know what they are?

Do you?


You see, you can rarely change somebody's opinion. Do you think that by asking me which weapons could not be balanced that I'm suddenly going to say 'yeah, let's make Halo class-based!'
I am not out to change your opinion. You see, these peoples 'opinion' is, "Omfgz letz keepz haloz samez so I canz 4 shotzzzzz!!!!"

Okay? Everyone wants Halo to stay the same way it has been for 10 years. And you know what? They cannot give one logical, legitimate reason as to why. Which is why I asked you that question, to see whether you could come up with a good answer that I had no counter to.

Now, I haven't read every page of this thread (far from it), but it seems to me that most people disagree with you. They play Halo, because it's Halo. They don't want to play a Halo game that feels a little like Call of Duty. And you can label them idiots or close-minded senseless drones, but the fact remains that if their opinion is that your idea is bad, that means they don't want Bungie to use your idea. You can't change that.
They play Halo for the same reason people play Call of Duty.

How is making one simple weapons spawn system change suddenly going make the game like CoD?

Did I propose sprinting? Did I propose fall damage? Did I propose aiming down sights? Did I propose being able to climb over cover? Did I propose dying after 1 to 3 shots? Did I propose we play as humans only? Did I propose we have game types like Domination, Search and Destroy, etc? Did I propose we have perks? Did I propose we no longer have vehicles? Did I propose US/England vs terrorists? Did I propose kill streak rewards? Did I propose we have present day guns? Did I propose we have realistic human capabilities? Did I propose we have flash, stun, smoke grenades? Did I propose we make Halo CoD?

The answer to all those 15 things that make up CoD are no.

Here is what I DID propose:

-We can choose Our primary spawn weapon and a side arm for 5 separate classes
That is where the similarities end
-We can choose two starting grenades (2 of a kind, or one of 2 kinds)
-The weapons are balanced so nothing is a power weapon
-Maps are balanced to we have to focus on map control, choosing our spots, moving around carefully, and to prevent camping.

And Bungie are going to appeal to the masses, always. You wonder why 90% of games nowadays utilise only an eighth of the possible gametypes? You wonder why Grifball comes up as DBLEXP three times more than any other?
That is not my problem. I cannot account for poorly balanced game types.

It's because Bungie appeals to the masses. And the masses want Halo to remain Halo.
Is adding classes going to change the story? Is it going to change the weapons? Is it going to change Halo? No. It is just going to add a different twist to the way we play Halo.

  • 08.17.2009 1:03 PM PDT

You have no rights, play nice.

It saddens me that some of you guys are constantly comparing Halo to CoD becuz someone suggested classes. I bet if someone proposed something that relates to another game, you'd get in a frenzy about it.




No one is opposing firefight, when it's pretty much like horde mode from GoW 2. So stop getting so ticked off at Tw inKoGnito's idea. It's appealing, its different, it could be a great thing, and you are all putting it down!(except for a few of you, kudos to you).


Now, I don't see people calling Halo Wars a copy of C&C. Know why they don't? Because it's still Halo! You are so ticked off at the class based system of CoD, that any idea that somehow relates to CoD is a bad thing.

  • 08.17.2009 1:11 PM PDT

LW45 TS40 TO40 TSW35 TSN35 TT30 SB30 MLG25

Posted by: TW InKoGnIto
Posted by: porkstein
I'm going to approach this from another direction.

Opinions.

Do you know what they are?

You see, you can rarely change somebody's opinion. Do you think that by asking me which weapons could not be balanced that I'm suddenly going to say 'yeah, let's make Halo class-based!'

I am not out to change your opinion. You see, these peoples 'opinion' is, "Omfgz letz keepz haloz samez so I canz 4 shotzzzzz!!!'.


Congratulations on generalising the entire opposition! Tell me, if you aren't out to change my opinion, why are you arguing with me? I stated my opinion, you were not content with it, and you then proceeded to tell me how and why my opinion was wrong. I'd say that's an attempt to change my opinion.

Okay? Everyone wants Halo to stay the same way it has been for 10 years. And you know what? They cannot give one logical, legitimate reason as to why. Which is why I asked you that question, to see whether you could come up with a good answer that I had no counter to.

Unfortunately for you, reasons are completely irrelevant. These people might not be able to come up with a reason that fits your logic and your legitimacy, but the fact remains that they would rather Halo remained the same.

Now, I haven't read every page of this thread (far from it), but it seems to me that most people disagree with you. They play Halo, because it's Halo. They don't want to play a Halo game that feels a little like Call of Duty. And you can label them idiots or close-minded senseless drones, but the fact remains that if their opinion is that your idea is bad, that means they don't want Bungie to use your idea. You can't change that.

How is making one simple weapons spawn system change suddenly going make the game like CoD?

[15 rhetorical questions]

The answer to all those 15 things that make up CoD are no.

Here is what I DID propose:

-We can choose our primary spawn weapon and a side arm for 5 separate classes
That is where the similarities end
-We can choose two starting grenades (2 of a kind, or one of 2 kinds)
-The weapons are balanced so nothing is a power weapon ALERT, SIMILARITY, ALERT
-Maps are balanced to have to focus on map control, choosing our spots, moving around carefully, and to prevent camping.


You've proved your point. What you propose would not be similar to CoD. But it would be quite different to the Halo we have come to know and love.

It's because Bungie appeals to the masses. And the masses want Halo to remain Halo.
Is adding classes going to change the story? Is it going to change the weapons? Jump in reasoning, incoming! Is it going to change Halo? No. It is just going to add a different twist to the way we play Halo.


Evidently, the majority of people in this thread feel that a class-based Halo would change too much of the core of Halo multiplayer gameplay. I think most would be happy for a different story, and different weapons. But a fundamentally different multiplayer? These people just don't seem particularly keen on the idea.

[Edited on 08.17.2009 1:20 PM PDT]

  • 08.17.2009 1:16 PM PDT

"How can we fight for peace?"

Halo is a game based on fast paced combat and teamwork. Adding classes would slow down the action.

Not only that but they would have to change the whole game's layout (and if you ask why then you aren't intelligent enough to carry on this argument) they would also have to change EVERY weapon, because no weapon has any sort of spread or even the slightest modicum of being intentionally balanced across all playing fields, none of the weapons have spread and even adding that would change the game itself. The weapons are simple enough as is that anyone can use them but in depth enough that someone with skill can dominate (such as the BR).

Halo wasn't meant to have balanced weapons, you can't say that two evenly matched players could have a fair fight with an AR and Rocket Launcher. Halo was meant to make people have to not only fight other players, but to also control the map and keep the weapons under their own team's control.

With this map control factor gone (and it would be gone because where would be the point to moving around and controlling the map if you already have what you need) it would boil down to an unbalanced and unexciting game that would just drag own until one team Rockets or camps their way to victory.

Also, don't try to say "Its not only CoD, other games have it too!". But that is not the majority of the people's intentions when they say 'I want a class system.' They want a game more like CoD and they just aren't capable of understanding that Halo has a smooth streamlined system of matchmaking (mostly) as is and by implementing classes it would only slow it down and take it out of the Halo spirit.

The game will not even be remotely like the Halo we know and love because to implement this "balance" would require so much changing and movement from Halo's core concepts of multiplayer that it wouldn't even be the same type of game.

People don't appose Firefight because it will be fun and won't completely change the game.

Halo Wars is an altogether different game and isn't C&C at all, you control fewer units, the interface and pace of the game is completely differentt as well. Halo Wars is also more accesible to people new to the genre.

Really, why fix it if it isn't broken?

[Edited on 08.17.2009 1:45 PM PDT]

  • 08.17.2009 1:42 PM PDT

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BAM!!!!! you just got sniped!

yea i agree with BRY, it wouldnt be halo anymore and its very unrealistic, maybe they could do that for multiplayer but i still wouldnt want that, you get what you get so stop whining about it. ( im not talking to u im talking to the people who fuss when the dont get the weapon they want

  • 08.17.2009 1:44 PM PDT

Posted by: porkstein
Congratulations on generalising the entire opposition! Tell me, if you aren't out to change my opinion, why are you arguing with me? I stated my opinion, you were not content with it, and you then proceeded to tell me how and why my opinion was wrong. I'd say that's an attempt to change my opinion.

I generalize the entire Halo population because they generalize ideas as a copy of other games.

Why are you arguing with me? Your original opinion was, gahh I can't think of the word..not flawed, but based off something I was not trying to say.

So that is why I said it was 'wrong' because you accusing me of trying to do something that I really wasn't.

Unfortunately for you, reasons are completely irrelevant. These people might not be able to come up with a reason that fits your logic and your legitimacy, but the fact remains that they would rather Halo remained the same.
You proved my point. If people can't think of a reason, then why do they want Halo to stay the same? I think that the reason why people can't find a reason is because they know that Halo is not that great (Halo 1 was though).

They can't accept the fact that maybe, something could be better than what we have now.

You've proved your point. What you propose would not be similar to CoD. But it would be quite different to the Halo we have come to know and love.
What is wrong with different? I mean, we elected Obama, that sure is a change from the norm.

Evidently, the majority of people in this thread feel that a class-based Halo would change too much of the core of Halo multiplayer gameplay. I think most would be happy for a different story, and different weapons. But a fundamentally different multiplayer? These people just don't seem particularly keen on the idea.
What is wrong with a fundamentally different gameplay? Just like a said above, change can be good, and nobody can say that classes will ruin Halo until we actually try it out.

  • 08.17.2009 1:45 PM PDT
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  • Veteran Legendary Member

Posted by: TW InKoGnIto
Okay? Everyone wants Halo to stay the same way it has been for 10 years. And you know what? They cannot give one logical, legitimate reason as to why. Which is why I asked you that question, to see whether you could come up with a good answer that I had no counter to.
Well... let's see... it's fun? Is that a "logical, legitimate reason"? I enjoy playing the game, but if they change it I might potentially dislike it in the way that I dislike other class-based games.

However, I think your ideas might be good. I personally think that everyone spawning with the same weapons is the way it should be, but there's a chance that it would be enjoyable to play the way you proposed it.

On the other hand, it could be boring and could get old after a week. I don't know, so I say keep it the same and don't risk it being a dissapointment.

[Edited on 08.17.2009 1:49 PM PDT]

  • 08.17.2009 1:46 PM PDT

"How can we fight for peace?"

Congratulations on generalising the entire opposition! Tell me, if you aren't out to change my opinion, why are you arguing with me? I stated my opinion, you were not content with it, and you then proceeded to tell me how and why my opinion was wrong. I'd say that's an attempt to change my opinion.
I generalize the entire Halo population because they generalize ideas as a copy of other games.

Why are you arguing with me? Your original opinion was, gahh I can't think of the word..not flawed, but based off something I was not trying to say.

So that is why I said it was 'wrong' because you accusing me of trying to do something that I really wasn't.

Unfortunately for you, reasons are completely irrelevant. These people might not be able to come up with a reason that fits your logic and your legitimacy, but the fact remains that they would rather Halo remained the same.
You proved my point. If people can't think of a reason, then why do they want Halo to stay the same? I think that the reason why people can't find a reason is because they know that Halo is not that great (Halo 1 was though).

They can't accept the fact that maybe, something could be better than what we have now.

You've proved your point. What you propose would not be similar to CoD. But it would be quite different to the Halo we have come to know and love.
What is wrong with different? I mean, we elected Obama, that sure is a change from the norm.

Evidently, the majority of people in this thread feel that a class-based Halo would change too much of the core of Halo multiplayer gameplay. I think most would be happy for a different story, and different weapons. But a fundamentally different multiplayer? These people just don't seem particularly keen on the idea.
What is wrong with a fundamentally different gameplay? Just like a said above, change can be good, and nobody can say that classes will ruin Halo until we actually try it out.


First of all, "trying it out" will cost bungie a lot of money and if it screws up, thats money out of their pocket.

Second, why should we need to have a reason to defend something that has nothing wrong with it. Just because you don't like the game doesn't mean it should be changed when most people love it the way it is.

Third..... did you really just bring Obama into this?

And last, fundamentally different gameplay is just that, different, people don't want different, if they did they would pre-order MW: 2 or any class based game (which i did).

  • 08.17.2009 1:50 PM PDT

Posted by: SamuraiX27
Halo is a game based on fast paced combat and teamwork. Adding classes would slow down the action.

Not only that but they would have to change the whole game's layout (and if you ask why then you aren't intelligent enough to carry on this argument) they would also have to change EVERY weapon, because no weapon has any sort of spread or even the slightest modicum of being intentionally balanced across all playing fields, none of the weapons have spread and even adding that would change the game itself. The weapons are simple enough as is that anyone can use them but in depth enough that someone with skill can dominate (such as the BR).

1-Halo is medium paced. I personally never see teamwork.
2-classes will speed up the action because people don't have to waste time trying to find a weapon.

"None of the weapons have spread?" What the heck are you talking about? 1/4 of the bullets I shoot from an AR land outside the reticule.

Do you think it is fair that someone with a better weapon should win? do you think it is fair that just because someone managed to grab a weapon faster, that they should win the game?

That is why weapons should be balanced. That way, if someone beats you, it is because of pure gun skill.

And I have answered hundreds of posts like yours. Just look through the pages.
Halo wasn't meant to have balanced weapons, you can't say that two evenly matched players could have a fair fight with an AR and Rocket Launcher. Halo was meant to make people have to not only fight other players, but to also control the map and keep the weapons under their own team's control.
If an assault rifle and a rocket launcher are balanced, then it is up to whoever has better gun skill. In Halo 3 it isn't fair of course, but we aren't talking about Halo 3. We are talking about Halo: Reach.

With this map control factor gone (and it would be gone because where would be the point to moving around and controlling the map if you already have what you need) it would boil down to an unbalanced and unexciting game that would just drag own until one team Rockets or camps their way to victory.
Map control is important no matter what. Have you played class based games?

Also, don't try to say "Its not only CoD, other games have it too!". But that is not the majority of the people's intentions when they say 'I want a class system.' They want a game more like CoD and they just aren't capable of understanding that Halo has a smooth streamlined system of matchmaking (mostly) as is and by implementing classes it would only slow it down and take it out of the Halo spirit.
Umm, the only way I can respond to something like this is with one word: No.

The game will not even be remotely like the Halo we know and love because to implement this "balance" would require so much changing and movement from Halo's core concepts of multiplayer that it wouldn't even be the same type of game.
That is the point! We have the same style of a game for 10 years!! Why not something new?

People don't appose Firefight because it will be fun and won't completely change the game.

Halo Wars is an altogether different game and isn't C&C at all, you control fewer units, the interface and pace of the game is completely differentt as well. Halo Wars is also more accesible to people new to the genre.

This is not related to anything I have stated.

Really, why fix it if it isn't broken?
We aren't remaking Halo 3, we are making a new game.

  • 08.17.2009 1:54 PM PDT

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Posted by: TW InKoGnIto
I'm afraid I cannot make it any clearer than this:

People do not want a class based Halo. That is their preference. They dislike classes in the same way that you dislike artichokes. You can question these preferences for the reasoning behind them all you want, but you won't change anything. Their preferences will remain the same.

[Edited on 08.17.2009 2:02 PM PDT]

  • 08.17.2009 2:00 PM PDT

If you cannot explain why you like something, then you have no reason to like it.

Posted by: porkstein
[quote]Posted by: TW InKoGnIto
I'm afraid I cannot make it any clearer than this:

People do not want a class based Halo. That is their preference. They dislike classes in the same way that you dislike artichokes. You can question these preferences for the reasoning behind them all you want, but you won't change anything. Their preferences will remain the same.

  • 08.17.2009 2:02 PM PDT
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  • Veteran Legendary Member

Posted by: TW InKoGnIto
If you cannot explain why you like something, then you have no reason to like it.

Posted by: porkstein
[quote]Posted by: TW InKoGnIto
I'm afraid I cannot make it any clearer than this:

People do not want a class based Halo. That is their preference. They dislike classes in the same way that you dislike artichokes. You can question these preferences for the reasoning behind them all you want, but you won't change anything. Their preferences will remain the same.
It's fun? Not that hard to understand. I enjoy playing on Live with my friends and just doing what we want to do on Halo.

[Edited on 08.17.2009 2:05 PM PDT]

  • 08.17.2009 2:04 PM PDT

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Posted by: TW InKoGnIto
If you cannot explain why you like something, then you have no reason to like it.


But you can like it nonetheless.

[Edited on 08.17.2009 2:06 PM PDT]

  • 08.17.2009 2:06 PM PDT

I can say the same thing about classes, I could say the same thing about a racing game, a RPG, etc. Give one real reason as to why a 10 year old system is superior to a new system.

Posted by: scotsoe
Posted by: TW InKoGnIto
If you cannot explain why you like something, then you have no reason to like it.

Posted by: porkstein
[quote]Posted by: TW InKoGnIto
I'm afraid I cannot make it any clearer than this:

People do not want a class based Halo. That is their preference. They dislike classes in the same way that you dislike artichokes. You can question these preferences for the reasoning behind them all you want, but you won't change anything. Their preferences will remain the same.
It's fun? Not that hard to understand. I enjoy playing on Live with my friends and just doing what we want to do on Halo.

  • 08.17.2009 2:06 PM PDT

LW45 TS40 TO40 TSW35 TSN35 TT30 SB30 MLG25

I don't need to give reasons. I like Halo. I dislike class-based games. I'm also claustrophobic. Why? I don't really know. Does that mean that I'm not claustrophobic?

  • 08.17.2009 2:09 PM PDT
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  • Veteran Legendary Member

Posted by: TW InKoGnIto
I can say the same thing about classes, I could say the same thing about a racing game, a RPG, etc. Give one real reason as to why a 10 year old system is superior to a new system.

Posted by: scotsoe
Posted by: TW InKoGnIto
If you cannot explain why you like something, then you have no reason to like it.

Posted by: porkstein
[quote]Posted by: TW InKoGnIto
I'm afraid I cannot make it any clearer than this:

People do not want a class based Halo. That is their preference. They dislike classes in the same way that you dislike artichokes. You can question these preferences for the reasoning behind them all you want, but you won't change anything. Their preferences will remain the same.
It's fun? Not that hard to understand. I enjoy playing on Live with my friends and just doing what we want to do on Halo.
You're not getting the point that there doesn't have to be a reason for everything, but I'll try to give you one: It's fun. It's more fun, to most people, than class-based, racing, RPG, whatever.

How old it is also has nothing to do with it. The most popular sport in the world, soccer, is over a thousand years old but basketball is only a fraction as old. but more people play/watch/enjoy soccer. The reason why? Who cares? It's fun and they like it. That's what matters and the reason why is irrelevant.

  • 08.17.2009 2:11 PM PDT

We are going about this the wrong way.

Lets start off with a simple question and try to keep it civilized:

I propose that Halo: Reach, should have a balanced, class based system. Please explain why you disagree.

  • 08.17.2009 2:40 PM PDT
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  • Veteran Legendary Member

*Sigh* Did you read my post? I think that the non-class based system that Halo has is more fun than class based.

Please don't ask why I like it more, I just do. It makes sense that everyone should start off with the same weapon, and I think it's plenty of fun, even if it is the same system used since Halo: CE.

But honestly, so much has changed since then, in my opinion. My Halo: CE disk just started working after the most recent update so I played through the Campaign again, and that game is actually very different from Halo 3. So don't say they are the same.

  • 08.17.2009 2:54 PM PDT

Can someone please explain to me where on earth did someone come up with this? I really want to know cause the idea is sad

  • 08.17.2009 3:16 PM PDT

Posted by: scotsoe
*Sigh* Did you read my post? I think that the non-class based system that Halo has is more fun than class based.

Okay.

Please don't ask why I like it more, I just do. It makes sense that everyone should start off with the same weapon, and I think it's plenty of fun, even if it is the same system used since Halo: CE.
I understand. Spawning with the same weapon can be quite an entertaining experience. Halo: CE is my favorite game. I just wish it has xbox live.

But do you not think that it is a little unfair that if one team gets the only power weapon on the map, they will most likely win the match? Or how in Halo 2/3 the spawn weapons are too weak to properly defend yourself?

But honestly, so much has changed since then, in my opinion. My Halo: CE disk just started working after the most recent update so I played through the Campaign again, and that game is actually very different from Halo 3. So don't say they are the same.

I never said that? I have always stated that either we should have classes, or a Halo 1 style game were they weapons are powerful.

  • 08.17.2009 3:17 PM PDT
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Posted by: DootuzPIE
Please we don't want them. This is HALO! Not COD.

I hate the class system in COD.

See it wasn't bad in the early COD games but in the new ones where you can make your own classes. That's dumb, you can spawn with overpowered weapons. and Perks and stuff NO.


KEEP IT CLEAN.

NOT COD!

speak for yourself.
I for one kind of like the idea everyone is always complaining about how other people are complaining about the game.

Maybe if there are classes it would be more fair instead of 8 people fighting over a sniper.

With those people not complaining maybe other people will not complain so much.

After all these years of default starting weapons and what not it might be kind of fun to give this a try.

Like Barrack Obama said its time for a change


[Edited on 08.17.2009 4:12 PM PDT]

  • 08.17.2009 4:07 PM PDT

Yes.

Posted by: YouGotSausaged
Posted by: DootuzPIE
Please we don't want them. This is HALO! Not COD.

I hate the class system in COD.

See it wasn't bad in the early COD games but in the new ones where you can make your own classes. That's dumb, you can spawn with overpowered weapons. and Perks and stuff NO.


KEEP IT CLEAN.

NOT COD!

speak for yourself.
I for one kind of like the idea everyone is always complaining about how other people are complaining about the game.

Maybe if there are classes it would be more fair instead of 8 people fighting over a sniper.

With those people not complaining maybe other people will not complain so much.

After all these years of default starting weapons and what not it might be kind of fun to give this a try.

Like Barrack Obama said its time for a change

  • 08.17.2009 5:29 PM PDT

Honestly, what I love most about this sort of discussion is how so many people think that a Halo game with a class system would be CoD with different graphics and plot elements. I also love how they automatically assume that the weapons wouldn't be rebalanced for Reach to create a level playing field. Just because a game with rocket/sniper spawns would be terrible in H:CE, 2 and 3 doesn't mean it would be terrible in a game with rebalanced weapons.

One more thing: CoD isn't the only model for a class-based FPS out there. "Class system" doesn't equate to "0mg teH peRks!!". For a good example of a different way, look at TF2. (The PC version, please...)

  • 08.17.2009 6:00 PM PDT

Posted by: B R Y
No, it just wouldnt be Halo anymore

correct. change the whole game and make it like another that is
not rated as well as this game already is. makes perfect sence.

  • 08.17.2009 6:05 PM PDT