Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Problems in Halo 3 that can be fixed for Halo: Reach
  • Subject: Problems in Halo 3 that can be fixed for Halo: Reach
Subject: Problems in Halo 3 that can be fixed for Halo: Reach

I am an avid gamer with a passion to keep games fun and strategy provoking, rather than simply button mashing instant-reward games that plague the market nowadays. I'm not kind, but I'm rational, fair, and maybe, just maybe, somewhat intelligent.

Okay, I know how a fair amount of the Bnet community hate MLG, but I would like you to listen to this anyways.
What I am about to say might seem arrogant to some of you Bnet dwellers but, in all honesty, hardcore gamers know about Halo 3 than the developers do in certain areas. There have been plenty of threads on how Bungie can improve Halo 3 or more importantly, Halo Reach.

One of the problems is that Bungie 'waters down' each new installment of a franchise, in this case, the Halo series.

Now, the reasons Halo 3 is hated by so many is because of the previously stated point. Making it easier to kill someone with more skill is unfair. And that what this is mainly about, balance. Bungie claims to make the game more balanced. Their heart is in the right place, but their mindset is a little off.

Some of you maybe saying, "Well then, people wouldn't want to play because they get killed to much." Well, how do you think that more skilled person became more skilled? They decided to play smarter.

When Bungie promotes this mindless kill fest, they ruin what made Halo, truly Halo. Players should be encouraged to play better, not running around in straight lines and firing in the general direction of an enemy.

Here's how to improve the Halo franchise's last game and how to go out with a big bang:

1) More customization. Bungie is good at this, probably the best, so more customization shouldn't be too hard. For instance, Bungie can allow customization of certain aspects of a weapon. Such as individual weapon handicap. Changing the mechanics of the spread of a weapon. And yes, this can be done, you can program anything to be varied if you want to.

2) Better XBL/LAN weapon registration. This one gets mentioned a lot, and for good reason too. Look at Halo 2, weapons did in fact have better chances of registering. I think this has to go with the fact that there was no spread, at least to my knowledge. On LAN in from Halo 2 to Halo 3, there has been a dramatic increase in grenades, bullets, and melees not registering. Now look at Halo 2, there haven't been any problems with the sniper registering. If there has, there aren't enough for it to be considered a major problem.However, in Halo 3, this is much different. Grenades, especially plasmas, bullets and melees registration can be a toss up. Bungie says that it's just the equipment used for LAN. If so, then I should weld to 360's together to get absolutely perfect LAN than right?

3) Melees. Lunges should be removed altogether. In Halo:CE, there were no lunges at all, and it was a perfect melee system, if you hit someone, you hit someone. In Halo 2 and Halo 3, this changed dramatically. In Halo 2, you could lunge across a room either with or without a sword depending on the connection if playing on XBL. In Halo 3, it got a little better with the lunge issue, but being able to punch someone without looking at them is silly.

All these things promote individual skill, which also contributed to Halo:CE's legendary success. What I am mainly saying is, Bungie, please listen to your hardcore community more. They only thing they haven't studied at this point is the coding itself. Other than that, they have studied every little bit of Halo 3.

Oh by the way, sorry for the novel.

[Edited on 07.26.2009 10:29 PM PDT]

  • 07.26.2009 10:28 PM PDT

Oh ****. Just the first paragraph alone is going to get this thread so much flame... good luck OP.

Also, you are wrong on several points.

[Edited on 07.26.2009 10:41 PM PDT]

  • 07.26.2009 10:38 PM PDT

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The hardcore gamers are a minority. You need to please everyone involved, not just one community. Your three points I agree with, but your opening saying that halo had become a 'mindless kill fest' I disagree with. Anyone I see that rushes straight into the enemy with no thought at all generally gets owned.
The reason why hit registration is worse in halo 3 is because weapons aren't hitscan any more. You now need to lead your shots at range, which promotes more skill not less. Half of the time it's nothing to do with your connection, it's just that your not allowing for their movement.

  • 07.26.2009 10:42 PM PDT

If you want to see the MC die, play Legendary. If you want to see MC finish the fight, play Halo 3. If you want to see MC finish the fight by dieing, why did you waste six years when you could have done it yourself right now?

☼►Popular Fusion - Doing anything, everything, and then some.◄☼

I must say, this post was actually a breath of fresh air for this forum. I was expecting another clone thread about weapon balance and the indescriptive "more", and countless posts of agreement below with nothing to add to the subject.

I like where you're going. This is what I've always thought about how Halo should work. Firstly, weapons should be effective, regardless of if they become overpowered because of it. If they do become overpowered, the map should be adjusted to compensate the weapons power.

Secondly, if something still doesn't work, it should be changable. This includes everything, period.

Lastly, matchmaking should have a variety of maps dedicated to the starting weapon set. For example, an AR map would have LESS weapons like the BR and Carbine, while a BR map would have more weapons like the Brute Shot and Needler. There should be a much larger variety then this as well. Like a Brute Shot map variant and a Plasma Rifle variant.

[Edited on 07.26.2009 10:48 PM PDT]

  • 07.26.2009 10:47 PM PDT

I am an avid gamer with a passion to keep games fun and strategy provoking, rather than simply button mashing instant-reward games that plague the market nowadays. I'm not kind, but I'm rational, fair, and maybe, just maybe, somewhat intelligent.

Posted by: blarghonk2
The hardcore gamers are a minority. You need to please everyone involved, not just one community. Your three points I agree with, but your opening saying that halo had become a 'mindless kill fest' I disagree with. Anyone I see that rushes straight into the enemy with no thought at all generally gets owned.
The reason why hit registration is worse in halo 3 is because weapons aren't hitscan any more. You now need to lead your shots at range, which promotes more skill not less. Half of the time it's nothing to do with your connection, it's just that your not allowing for their movement.


In know the hardcore is the minority. However, they find the flaws in the game that often lead to those epic WTF moments. If the flaws hardcore gamers pointed out were fixed, the casual player will have a more overall enjoyable experience. My dad is a casual gamer, and yet he practically yells WTF at the screen due to some issue that was pointed out in my previous post.

As for the mindless rushing. Haven't you been mindlessly rushed and killed? I think it's a little insulting to the person with more skill because it says that despite how good you have become, I can kill you just like this.

I know that the weapons are not hitscan, and that is part of the problem. Yes leading your shots does take more skill, I like this part, it's just the dropping of packets and random spread sometimes can screw you over a kill and even a game.

  • 07.26.2009 10:49 PM PDT

If you want to see the MC die, play Legendary. If you want to see MC finish the fight, play Halo 3. If you want to see MC finish the fight by dieing, why did you waste six years when you could have done it yourself right now?

☼►Popular Fusion - Doing anything, everything, and then some.◄☼

Posted by: King Droid
As for the mindless rushing. Haven't you been mindlessly rushed and killed? I think it's a little insulting to the person with more skill because it says that despite how good you have become, I can kill you just like this.

I don't know about you, but I eat people like this alive. All you have to do is anticipate them coming around a corner, lob a grenade and ready the BR. It screws up the blitz but it only works if Motion Tracker is enabled. Oddly enough, MLG settings take out the tracker. How interesting...

  • 07.26.2009 10:53 PM PDT

I am an avid gamer with a passion to keep games fun and strategy provoking, rather than simply button mashing instant-reward games that plague the market nowadays. I'm not kind, but I'm rational, fair, and maybe, just maybe, somewhat intelligent.

So you've never been killed by one of these people. Of course you haven't. ;)

The reason radar is taken out is because of call outs. If your team mates call out, you don't need a radar.

  • 07.26.2009 10:55 PM PDT

If you want to see the MC die, play Legendary. If you want to see MC finish the fight, play Halo 3. If you want to see MC finish the fight by dieing, why did you waste six years when you could have done it yourself right now?

☼►Popular Fusion - Doing anything, everything, and then some.◄☼

Posted by: King Droid
So you've never been killed by one of these people. Of course you haven't. ;)

The reason radar is taken out is because of call outs. If your team mates call out, you don't need a radar.

Alright, alright. It really shows in Lone Wolves. I've gotten a +10 spread once and got 3rd. The rest got like +3-4. And all they did was run, charge, fire, and melee. No strategy. No picking up weapons. No brain. I'm busy staying alive and all they're doing is blindly charging!

  • 07.26.2009 10:59 PM PDT

I am an avid gamer with a passion to keep games fun and strategy provoking, rather than simply button mashing instant-reward games that plague the market nowadays. I'm not kind, but I'm rational, fair, and maybe, just maybe, somewhat intelligent.

Posted by: bansheeownz
Alright, alright. It really shows in Lone Wolves. I've gotten a +10 spread once and got 3rd. The rest got like +3-4. And all they did was run, charge, fire, and melee. No strategy. No picking up weapons. No brain. I'm busy staying alive and all they're doing is blindly charging!


Stop being a politician and avoiding the question. ;)

What I was saying though, that it happens, and Bungie somewhat promotes it.

  • 07.26.2009 11:04 PM PDT

I never killed a man that didn't need killing.

Hardcore gamers need to understand, IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU.


You will come back. You'll complain, but you'll come back. Every game with multiplayer that is as popular as Halo needs to have a system where unskilled players can join and have a good time. That keeps them coming back. Thats where the money is. Not in hardcores. Stop thinking it's about you. 97% of people playing Halo 3 don't care about the BR spread or hits scans or anything else. They just want to play. You want shooters that cater to hardcores, there are more than a few on PC thet you'll love.

  • 07.26.2009 11:05 PM PDT

Halo multiplayer has been fine since CE. They need to worry about fixing more campaign-related issues.

And agreed 110% on the melee issue. Honestly, they should just revert everything back to how it was in CE, same vehicle physics, grenade throwing arc, same melee system, health, etc etc. Neither Halo 2 nor Halo 3's gameplay elements felt as tight and satisfying as CE's.

  • 07.26.2009 11:06 PM PDT

I am an avid gamer with a passion to keep games fun and strategy provoking, rather than simply button mashing instant-reward games that plague the market nowadays. I'm not kind, but I'm rational, fair, and maybe, just maybe, somewhat intelligent.

Posted by: DoubleDeus 0411
Hardcore gamers need to understand, IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU.


You will come back. You'll complain, but you'll come back. Every game with multiplayer that is as popular as Halo needs to have a system where unskilled players can join and have a good time. That keeps them coming back. Thats where the money is. Not in hardcores. Stop thinking it's about you. 97% of people playing Halo 3 don't care about the BR spread or hits scans or anything else. They just want to play. You want shooters that cater to hardcores, there are more than a few on PC thet you'll love.


I never said that it was all about me or the hardcore community. I am talking about things that will cater to all Halo players. I didn't say make the game totally hardcore. I am pointing out flaws that effect every single player in the game of Halo 3 at one point or another.

You seem to have a bias towards hardcore gamers.

  • 07.26.2009 11:12 PM PDT

If you want to see the MC die, play Legendary. If you want to see MC finish the fight, play Halo 3. If you want to see MC finish the fight by dieing, why did you waste six years when you could have done it yourself right now?

☼►Popular Fusion - Doing anything, everything, and then some.◄☼

Posted by: King Droid
I never said that it was all about me or the hardcore community. I am talking about things that will cater to all Halo players. I didn't say make the game totally hardcore. I am pointing out flaws that effect every single player in the game of Halo 3 at one point or another.

You seem to have a bias towards hardcore gamers.

I can't imagine why he would...

Also, I was making a direct example of what you mentioned in my last post, NOT avoiding the issue. I was agreeing with you, not trying to confuse you ;)

However, there are more pressing problems with Halo 3 then just what you mentioned. What about underpowered, obsolete weapons like the Plasma Rifle or the Pistol? If I had to choose between total customization and rebalancing weak weapons, I'd choose the latter. This is not a problem for the Hardcore community though, they just don't pick up the damn things except for humiliation. I think you shouldn't have humiliation weapons in Halo. This isn't Counter Strike!

  • 07.26.2009 11:46 PM PDT

I never killed a man that didn't need killing.

Posted by: King Droid
Posted by: DoubleDeus 0411
Hardcore gamers need to understand, IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU.


You will come back. You'll complain, but you'll come back. Every game with multiplayer that is as popular as Halo needs to have a system where unskilled players can join and have a good time. That keeps them coming back. Thats where the money is. Not in hardcores. Stop thinking it's about you. 97% of people playing Halo 3 don't care about the BR spread or hits scans or anything else. They just want to play. You want shooters that cater to hardcores, there are more than a few on PC thet you'll love.


I never said that it was all about me or the hardcore community. I am talking about things that will cater to all Halo players. I didn't say make the game totally hardcore. I am pointing out flaws that effect every single player in the game of Halo 3 at one point or another.

You seem to have a bias towards hardcore gamers.



Get over yourself, there is no bias. I have a bias when when hardcores make condescending threads about how they know more about the game than Bungie, or Bungie needs to listen more or how the game shouldn't be "watered down." Just because you're a 50 in every playlist and one day in Social MM some level 5 noob bashes your skull in with a lucky melee, doesn't mean there something wrong with Halo 3. That means something is right about it. Because while that pisses you off, for the other guy it might have made his day. And because he realizes he has a fighting chance against all type of players he'll keep coming back.

Bungie does more listening to the fanbase than any consol dev out there. They make an MLG playlist, Grifball, the even put the Red Vs Blue guys in the freaking game for crying out loud. So I'm pretty certain thet Bungie does indeed listen and will more than likely address your issues. I just get annoyed by the 1001 snark filled posts about how Bungie doesn't listen or they forgot what made Halo CE so great.

  • 07.27.2009 3:14 PM PDT

"If buttered toast lands buttered side down, and cats always land on their feet, then what happens when you attach buttered toast to the back of a cat?

http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=33592670
http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=33407299

What is wrong with these 2 threads?

[Edited on 07.27.2009 3:18 PM PDT]

  • 07.27.2009 3:17 PM PDT

I am an avid gamer with a passion to keep games fun and strategy provoking, rather than simply button mashing instant-reward games that plague the market nowadays. I'm not kind, but I'm rational, fair, and maybe, just maybe, somewhat intelligent.

Posted by: DoubleDeus 0411
Get over yourself, there is no bias. I have a bias when when hardcores make condescending threads about how they know more about the game than Bungie, or Bungie needs to listen more or how the game shouldn't be "watered down." Just because you're a 50 in every playlist and one day in Social MM some level 5 noob bashes your skull in with a lucky melee, doesn't mean there something wrong with Halo 3. That means something is right about it. Because while that pisses you off, for the other guy it might have made his day. And because he realizes he has a fighting chance against all type of players he'll keep coming back.

Bungie does more listening to the fanbase than any consol dev out there. They make an MLG playlist, Grifball, the even put the Red Vs Blue guys in the freaking game for crying out loud. So I'm pretty certain thet Bungie does indeed listen and will more than likely address your issues. I just get annoyed by the 1001 snark filled posts about how Bungie doesn't listen or they forgot what made Halo CE so great.


By the way you post, you seem to have a bias, don't bite my head off. Second, it seems that hardcore or gamers in general find the majority of glitches in a game. So, they know more about that than Bungie because Bungie didn't know of them when the game shipped, at least for the most part.

You seemed to have missed the point. It's good when once in a while a level 5 noob does, but making it so easy that practically a blind person can do it is silly. It spits in the face of who took time to get good. And makes people that much more not wanting to get good because they can just run around guns blazing and pick kills like they're pennies on the street.

Yes they do listen the most, I love that, but the main reason Bungie put the playlists in is because it draws in revenue. Halo 3 is the flagship game of Major League Gaming and it draws in a lot more revenue. Red vs Blue is in the game mainly because Bungie is a fan of them.

As you can see, Bungie has not addressed these issues, and most likely will not for Halo 3, but these are suggestions that will make Halo Reach a much more enjoyable game and be fun for people overall. I am not pointing a gun at Bungie and saying this, which is what it seems is what you're trying to make it look like.

  • 07.27.2009 4:52 PM PDT

Here is why MLG fails, for me at-least.

They lack the variety of weapons, and I'm not taking about the Spiker or the Plasma Rifle, those weapons are worthless unless you love beating people down, which actually isn't any fun. No, I'm talking about weapons like the Brute Shot, Needler, SMG, and yes the AR.

What I like about MLG is BR starts 100% of the time, and I also enjoy the Halo: CE regeneration of Shield. Slower shield regen makes combat a lot more interesting and enjoyable. But again MLG fails to satisfy with their increase in speed and no Motion Tracker, both of which are essential for good gameplay, and there is no reason to argue against this, I have read why these have been changed, so please don't be a fanboy on me.

Next, I agree with most of your points, not all of them but I'll tell you why. I too feel the Halo experience has been geared more toward the casual player when it should have been geared toward the core gamer, this is where most of the greatest games ever developed sit. Look at Halo: CE, it was made for the Core gamer, look at Counter-Strike, it was made for the core gamer. Sure the casual player loves these games too, but they were made for the core gamer and then looked toward being able to introduce the game to the newest of players. Games like these should be the shining example of how to develop games.

Next, having a spread for the BR is a good thing, a random spread is not though. Leading your shots is one aspect that made Halo: CE a better game, and I'm talking about the Pistol and the Sniper, both of which had to be led.

Lunge does need to be taken out, and Bungie knows this, they just can't seem to let go of this one though. The Halo: CE wasn't perfect but it was damn close.

While I agree with most of your ideas the last thing you want to do is develop a game that becomes too repetitive and even worse boring like MLG, a game that I lost interest in once I became a 30 in it. There definitely needs to be a skill gap like there is in CE but still be very addicting and enjoying like most who have played CE can tell you is.

In all honesty if Halo CE was online play and saw constant introductions to Bungie made maps variants I would still be playing that game over there others.

BTW, you think you and the "hardcore" community know more about Halo than the developers, not only is that just a kid being arrogant, but it is someone who is also ignorant, I suggest taking that out of your thread, because in no way do you or any one person represent any community "hardcore" or not. I myself almost quit reading after that point.

[Edited on 07.27.2009 5:50 PM PDT]

  • 07.27.2009 5:40 PM PDT

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Dual wielding. Remove it.

  • 07.27.2009 5:43 PM PDT
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Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Dual wielding. Remove it.
I say keep it, but don't nerf the dual wieldable weapons, like the plasma pistol and plasma rifle, which were very competent weapons in Halo CE.

But, it is a double edged sword. If dual wielding were to go, those weapons would be tuned up like the needler, and would actually have a purpose. The plasma rifle would be a rifle again, and the plasma pistol would be feared, as well as weapons like the magnum and SMG.

  • 07.27.2009 5:46 PM PDT

I am an avid gamer with a passion to keep games fun and strategy provoking, rather than simply button mashing instant-reward games that plague the market nowadays. I'm not kind, but I'm rational, fair, and maybe, just maybe, somewhat intelligent.

Posted by: Blackprinze

BTW, you think you and the "hardcore" community know more about Halo than the developers, not only is that just a kid being arrogant, but it is someone who is also ignorant, I suggest taking that out of your thread, because in no way do you or any one person represent any community "hardcore" or not. I myself almost quit reading after that point.


I'm talking about how the game flows and glitches is where the hardcore gamers pay attention to most. I'm not saying they know everything about the game better than Bungie, no one does.

I'm saying is that the hardcore gamers look at something and pick it apart as much as they can. Look at the melee system. The hardcore community figured out a glitch that Bungie missed and Bungie fixed it. At the time, the hardcore knew more because they found something that the creators did not.

  • 07.27.2009 7:35 PM PDT

I love people that argue that games need to adjust their ways so that more skilled players can actually be better, and then justify it with something as silly as weapons customizatio
Really, changing the spread of a weapon means that a person has more skill, first it allows the person with the most time to be able to tweak weapons until they find the 'best' it can be, and second if done like most games where the higher rank you are the better weapons you get that just oxymoronic to your skill statement. If better players get better weapons well duh they should when. If you want true skill to shine through you level any advantage you can so only player skills show and not what weapon customized they have.

But I do agree that the melee needs work. But I have always seen it as this, your a massive 7 foot solidiers running around a battlefield hitting people with your gun and we expect it to feel right, of course it will be awkward. But it should be changed and tweaked until the best fit is found.

  • 07.27.2009 7:53 PM PDT

Snakie Purple.

"Hamdog, Hamdog, Hamdog, Hamdog"-Hamdog.

Twatter

No, they do not.

How could a bunch of players know more about a game than the people who actually made it?

I normally like some of you MLG guys, but when you come in here all high and mighty, I begin to hate you all again.

[Edited on 07.27.2009 7:58 PM PDT]

  • 07.27.2009 7:55 PM PDT

If you want to see the MC die, play Legendary. If you want to see MC finish the fight, play Halo 3. If you want to see MC finish the fight by dieing, why did you waste six years when you could have done it yourself right now?

☼►Popular Fusion - Doing anything, everything, and then some.◄☼

Sorry for the bump from the second page, but I've been thinking about this thread all day at work and I've just thought of something about the OP's arguement.

Back in Halo 2's reign, I remember seeing SO many threads from people complaining that camping is an extremely cheap strategy... that and button combos and super jumps, of course. Now, it looks like tanking has become the new punching bag for the so called hardcore audience. It's inevitable, and it will continue to happen, but it's just impossible to predict what it could be. I hated the balance of Halo 2. It was aweful. In my opinion, Halo 3 was a step in the right direction. It's not quite there yet, but we've made some extreme progress. It can only get better with Reach too.

  • 07.27.2009 11:48 PM PDT

I am an avid gamer with a passion to keep games fun and strategy provoking, rather than simply button mashing instant-reward games that plague the market nowadays. I'm not kind, but I'm rational, fair, and maybe, just maybe, somewhat intelligent.

Posted by: Arbiduck
No, they do not.

How could a bunch of players know more about a game than the people who actually made it?

I normally like some of you MLG guys, but when you come in here all high and mighty, I begin to hate you all again.


*facepalm*

I think the people who discovered the glitches would know more about them then those who didn't.

I didn't come in here all high and mighty. This is why I hate talking to Bnet goers, you hold this grudge until the end of time. Jesus, I'm only making suggestions. Sorry if I pissed you off. You act as if I said the MLG players know everything better than Bungie. Stop taking things out of context.

  • 07.28.2009 7:10 AM PDT

I am an avid gamer with a passion to keep games fun and strategy provoking, rather than simply button mashing instant-reward games that plague the market nowadays. I'm not kind, but I'm rational, fair, and maybe, just maybe, somewhat intelligent.

Posted by: bansheeownz
Sorry for the bump from the second page, but I've been thinking about this thread all day at work and I've just thought of something about the OP's arguement.

Back in Halo 2's reign, I remember seeing SO many threads from people complaining that camping is an extremely cheap strategy... that and button combos and super jumps, of course. Now, it looks like tanking has become the new punching bag for the so called hardcore audience. It's inevitable, and it will continue to happen, but it's just impossible to predict what it could be. I hated the balance of Halo 2. It was aweful. In my opinion, Halo 3 was a step in the right direction. It's not quite there yet, but we've made some extreme progress. It can only get better with Reach too.


*Double post for the win*

At least I can have a conversation with someone who doesn't twist my words. At least, or at least I hope, that you understand that these are all suggestions not to be taken by heart.

  • 07.28.2009 7:12 AM PDT