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This topic has moved here: Subject: Rebalancing the BR (v2)
  • Subject: Rebalancing the BR (v2)
Subject: Rebalancing the BR (v2)
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  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Dude this is thee most retarded arguement ever. Your bad so you can't use the br anyways so your complaining about it to get it rebalanced. You also can melee people after you shoot them a couple times... all's you have to do is hit the "B" button.

So in conclusion I 4 shot you br noobs for breakfast.


THE END

  • 07.31.2009 7:36 PM PDT

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Posted by: iWHITE RANGER
Dude this is thee most retarded arguement ever. Your bad so you can't use the br anyways so your complaining about it to get it rebalanced. You also can melee people after you shoot them a couple times... all's you have to do is hit the "B" button.

So in conclusion I 4 shot you br noobs for breakfast.


THE END


^^^This is amazing... Seriously.

*claps*

  • 07.31.2009 7:39 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
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Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
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Posted by: iWHITE RANGER
Dude this is thee most retarded arguement ever. Your bad so you can't use the br anyways so your complaining about it to get it rebalanced. You also can melee people after you shoot them a couple times... all's you have to do is hit the "B" button.

So in conclusion I 4 shot you br noobs for breakfast.


THE END


Wow, the arguements thus far were rather intelligent, thank you for bringing some ignorance to the thread. This has nothing to do with personal skill or preference, read the damn posts.

  • 07.31.2009 7:54 PM PDT

You are the most ignorant person I have seen. You did not read the thread.

Posted by: iWHITE RANGER
Dude this is thee most retarded arguement ever. Your bad so you can't use the br anyways so your complaining about it to get it rebalanced. You also can melee people after you shoot them a couple times... all's you have to do is hit the "B" button.

So in conclusion I 4 shot you br noobs for breakfast.


THE END

  • 07.31.2009 8:05 PM PDT

Posted by: Rakata
God damn it.
The BR already got its rebalance. It's called br spread.
Just because you are not able to pick up kills with it or others are better then you with a weapon bungie doesn't need to take it out or make it useless.
Halo is not a game for bad players only. A good part of the halo community is somewhat good at the game, and these people like the br the way it is. I think the br spread is a good mix between a br for good players (h2 br) and a br for bad players (what you want). I do understand that halo can't be a game for good players, but that doesn't mean that it has to be a game for bad players.

Next time someone kills you with his oh so evil br think about why you hadn't a br or were not good enough with your br to kill him. It's not the br's fault.


I do not notice a spread when I use the BR. It shoots exactly where I want it to.

  • 07.31.2009 8:06 PM PDT

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
$.50 in store credit.

Posted by: iWHITE RANGER
Dude this is thee most retarded arguement ever. Your bad so you can't use the br anyways so your complaining about it to get it rebalanced. You also can melee people after you shoot them a couple times... all's you have to do is hit the "B" button.

So in conclusion I 4 shot you br noobs for breakfast.


THE END
Conclusion: You didnt even read the begining of my OP.

  • 07.31.2009 8:55 PM PDT

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
$.50 in store credit.

Posted by: cpt falcon911
Posted by: The EAKLE
Posted by: Bullet _ Sponge
The problem is that all the other weapons are not versatile. The BR is great in many situation and it can easily adapt with the use of grenades and sometimes melee. Most other weapons have one use, melee range combat. Bungie needs to make all weapons useful again. Don't blame the BR for poor weapon balance. The M6D was way more powerful, killing in under a second but the game was balanced due to the other weapons being useful as well.
Buy dont forget that Halo CE and Halo 3 have major differences. There is dual wielding, more weapons, and more equipment to think about. Like i said in the OP, if SMGs get increased accuracy, they could become death machines. If plasma rifles get their stun back they would be the ultimate weapon with any UNSC weapon in a Dual Wield combo. If the AR gets too much more range it could easily kill with the help of a grenade or power drain much farther then it can now. It would take a lot of tweaking to find this balance, but i trust Bungie.


I am going to be very blunt in my post in explaining why choosing the br as a scapegoat (as to why halo 3 had no variety) is a very narrow minded way at looking at things.

Here are the major flaws in your reasoning for changing the BR.

First off you blame everything on the BR. You say the br renders all other weapons useless. You say the br cuts down on variety. You completely forgot how pointless it is to pick up almost any other weapon in the halo 3 sandbox even with one br on a map. If I start with an AR whats the point of picking up an smg or spiker. My Ar does the same job by firing in auto and with the same or better range. (plus better accuracy) Why pick up a plasma rifle? As long as I back up and shoot at the PR user i will get the kill. Why pick up a plasma pistol? The charged shot barely tracks enough or flys through the air with enough velocity to get a wary oppenent. (I can just use my AR instead)

Get my point.

You also complain about the br being able to shoot a sniper and knock him out of scope. If your playing on The Pit and the other team is spawn trapping you with a sniper rifle what are you going to do without a br. (duh your only other option is to camp) Btw heres a novel concept if your getting shot by a br when using the sniper (or another long range weapon) find some cover or new place to snipe.

The problem with your idea is that it would make for slower gameplay. Halo is loved and known for fast paced gameplay. It is not cod 4 where people die so fast that camping frequently occurs (just watch some vod of mlgs version of it) or gow 2 where it takes many upon many bullets to bring the oppenent down. The br (and weapons like it) is what makes halo, halo. By reducing damage and making it longer to kill a person at mid range you make the game slower paced. Because in every halo mid range is where MOST combat occurs.

Changing the Br to where it is not a br is not the answer.

Why drop an AR for SMG or Spiker? SMGs are much more powerful than ARs, yet have a closer range. They are great if you know how to use them. People hate duals because they apparently dont realize the power of a SMG/PR, or Spiker/Magnum.

If you think the only thing you can do without a BR is camp you have no imagination. In slayer you have magnum as a back up weapon, and any half decent player (i.e. me) can hit a player with a magnum. Useing team work and equipment makes it that much easier. Everyone seems to think Halo is a broken game without BR starts, and it's not. If anyone honestly believes you are doomed without a BR, you have no imagination and a lack of strategic thought.

  • 07.31.2009 9:02 PM PDT

Posted by: SweetTRIX
Posted by: disgruntledfan2
Posted by: SweetTRIX
Posted by: jonesy90000
Posted by: Rakata
God damn it.
The BR already got its rebalance. It's called br spread.
Just because you are not able to pick up kills with it or others are better then you with a weapon bungie doesn't need to take it out or make it useless.
Halo is not a game for bad players only. A good part of the halo community is somewhat good at the game, and these people like the br the way it is. I think the br spread is a good mix between a br for good players (h2 br) and a br for bad players (what you want). I do understand that halo can't be a game for good players, but that doesn't mean that it has to be a game for bad players.

Next time someone kills you with his oh so evil br think about why you hadn't a br or were not good enough with your br to kill him. It's not the br's fault.



thank god i am not alone, this man has the right idea :P


I'm sorry, but your opinion is that instead of fixing something unbalanced others should simply learn to exploit the lack of balance? That is pretty damn stupid (though all too common a thought).

Considering that the addition of the BR openned up the game for the casual market by making it so damn easy in the first place, the line of thought that the Halo is not only for bad players in defense of the BR is pretty weak. Halo CE was not as widely enjoyed as Halo2 or 3, many felt the learning curve was too strict, and Halo2 simplified it while Halo3 practically flattened it.


What do you me by flattened it?


The learning curve used to be high (CE) meaning you had to take some time to get to be a good shot and be proficient. It was shortened in Halo2 with the BR and the new weapon set because there was less skill required to be good at slayer (not arguing tactics). All you needed was a BR and be decently effective, if you paired it with a PP you had Halo for dummies, it was overly simple. Halo3 crushed the learning curve by making it even easier with equipment, splazer, and the return of the BR (hardly as nerfed as some claim).

Basically it's another way of saying the games have gotten progressivly easier to make them more accesible. The higher tier of players are still dangerous, but it is more because of their playstyles than what weapons they favor ( though the BR is a huge contributing factor).


Really? I thought Halo 3 was more skillful than Halo 2. Aiming with a Splazer is harder than lock on rockets, you have to lead with all weapons again, and the auto-aim and bullet magnetism are nowhere near as nooby as Halo 2. Also, the head hitbox is the smallest it's ever been. I don't see equipment making it any easier. You can't shoot out of a bubbleshield, the regen can be blown up with a grenade, and entered to give the same benefit. The only thing nooby to me is that power drainer.

That and the fact that my 13 year old cousin can't sniper swipe or BR swipe anymore with a 2x/5x zoom proves to me it's significantly harder.

[Edited on 07.31.2009 9:09 PM PDT]

  • 07.31.2009 9:05 PM PDT

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
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Posted by: ExquisiteDragon
What say you op, to removing the optic scope or making to versions of the battle rifle?
It would be interesting. That would probably make it much less effective ar long range, so the main objective would be accomplished. It's a simpler solution, but i think it would work.

  • 07.31.2009 9:08 PM PDT

BR needs to be toned down, other weapons need to be toned up.

And Melee DESPERATELY needs changed.

  • 07.31.2009 9:15 PM PDT

An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it.
- Jef Mallett

An intelligent BR thread! Zounds!

I agree with you completely. The Battle Rifle is a great gun, but the players over dependence on the weapon severely limits the amount of other weapons to pick up. In some maps (such as The Pit) there's no point in picking anything else up except Rockets and Sniper.

  • 07.31.2009 9:20 PM PDT

Halo 1>Halo 2>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Halo 3

Want to hear a funny joke? Marijuana prohibition.

Posted by: Fos Tis Krisis
In a game, like Halo, where all weapons need to find their place in the balance, a weapon like the BR, Carbine, and M6D don't fit. They have been described to me as a "Perfectly Balanced Weapon" By BR fanboys. and Im sorry but a "Perfectly Balanced Weapon" leaves NO ROOM for other weapons. Halo SHOULD consist of a collection of unbalanced weapons, that weigh each other out in their own personal circumstances. Having one weapon fit all needs does NOT fit into a game with more than one weapon in it.


I am going to have to completely disagree with you. A weapon that can be used in any combat situation is an ideal starting weapon for fair gameplay. Think about it. You spawn right now with a close range weapon. The guy that has the Sniper Rifle, Shotgun, Rocket Launcher, Mauler, Beam Rifle, etc... will dominate you just because you aren't holding a weapon that would suit the gameplay style you are facing. The H3 BR, H2 BR and M6D are necessary for gameplay because it gives you a somewhat chance against a power weapon. It will not win against a power weapon, but it will give you a chance whereas a weapon strictly suited for one style of combat will not.

O.P.- I really don't think the BR needs to be downgraded anymore than it already has. Loook at the history of the BR; We first started with the Pistol. A 3 headshot kill weapon with a large range made for a balanced, fast paced game since every power weapon in CE was so strong. Also, it was not a hitscan weapon, so it took someone with good aim and timing to effectivley use it. In Halo 2, we now had a burst fire, 4 shot hitscan BR. This was a pretty big downgrade since players in the game now had these invisible health bars that took seemingly forever to deplete. This made the game much slower paced, and since the BR was no longer a single fire weapon, sweep shooting became everybody's best friend, making the BR not as skill orientated. To add on to this equation, power weapons that dominated the Pistol (in certain styles of combat) were not downgraded with the BR, which further made the BR less of an all-purpose weapon. Now we have Halo 3. And with that comes a BR that is inconsistent, much lower range and has the occasional shot that doesn't register. This weapon can't do anything useful at long range. It's difficult to classify the weapon as an all-purpose weapon anymore because it is so inneffective.

My solution is this-Let players tweak indivudial weapon damage, range and consistency through forge. This will allow players to play however they want, without making others play games they don't want to play (unless your in matchmaking).

[Edited on 07.31.2009 9:42 PM PDT]

  • 07.31.2009 9:41 PM PDT

Halo 1>Halo 2>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Halo 3

Want to hear a funny joke? Marijuana prohibition.

Posted by: disgruntledfan2
Posted by: SweetTRIX
[quote]Posted by: disgruntledfan2
[quote]Posted by: SweetTRIX
[quote]Posted by: jonesy90000
[quote]Posted by: Rakata


Really? I thought Halo 3 was more skillful than Halo 2. Aiming with a Splazer is harder than lock on rockets, you have to lead with all weapons again, and the auto-aim and bullet magnetism are nowhere near as nooby as Halo 2. Also, the head hitbox is the smallest it's ever been. I don't see equipment making it any easier. You can't shoot out of a bubbleshield, the regen can be blown up with a grenade, and entered to give the same benefit. The only thing nooby to me is that power drainer.

That and the fact that my 13 year old cousin can't sniper swipe or BR swipe anymore with a 2x/5x zoom proves to me it's significantly harder.


Sorry for the double post, but you're really trying to say that Halo 3 takes more skill than Halo 2?!?!?

Every weapon in the game now is inconsistent. Meaning that if your lucky, your weapon will behave the way it's supposed to behave. Halo 3 is as noob friendly as it can get. Being a competitive player, this disappoints me because I love Halo, but I hate Halo 3.

And look at equipment. You think Power Drainers are the only nooby piece of equipment? What about a bubble shield? You lay one of those down, and its pretty much a "get out of death free" card. Ditto for the Regenerator. The only Piece of equipment that isn't really nooby is the Grav. Lift. However, you can get into places with one that would making sniping rather nooby.

  • 07.31.2009 9:52 PM PDT

Posted by: thewhorocker15
Posted by: disgruntledfan2
Posted by: SweetTRIX
[quote]Posted by: disgruntledfan2
[quote]Posted by: SweetTRIX
[quote]Posted by: jonesy90000
[quote]Posted by: Rakata


Really? I thought Halo 3 was more skillful than Halo 2. Aiming with a Splazer is harder than lock on rockets, you have to lead with all weapons again, and the auto-aim and bullet magnetism are nowhere near as nooby as Halo 2. Also, the head hitbox is the smallest it's ever been. I don't see equipment making it any easier. You can't shoot out of a bubbleshield, the regen can be blown up with a grenade, and entered to give the same benefit. The only thing nooby to me is that power drainer.

That and the fact that my 13 year old cousin can't sniper swipe or BR swipe anymore with a 2x/5x zoom proves to me it's significantly harder.


Sorry for the double post, but you're really trying to say that Halo 3 takes more skill than Halo 2?!?!?

Every weapon in the game now is inconsistent. Meaning that if your lucky, your weapon will behave the way it's supposed to behave. Halo 3 is as noob friendly as it can get. Being a competitive player, this disappoints me because I love Halo, but I hate Halo 3.

And look at equipment. You think Power Drainers are the only nooby piece of equipment? What about a bubble shield? You lay one of those down, and its pretty much a "get out of death free" card. Ditto for the Regenerator. The only Piece of equipment that isn't really nooby is the Grav. Lift. However, you can get into places with one that would making sniping rather nooby.


So... The overshield is a get out of death free card too, and no one ever complained, and people can actually use it in an offensive strategy to kill people. It's called variables. As long as the bubble shield doesn't kill somebody cheaply it should be fine. In fact it's a great counter to the nooby rocket launcher. If you don't want people using the bubble shield then get it yourself. The weapons in the game aren't inconsistent. They are just rebalanced to make them less effective at farther ranges. Just because you can't rap your head about maximizing your efficiency by aiming within a specific range to optimize your 4 shot does not make the game nooby. It means you are a noob for wanting bullets that shoot straight, because you can't adjust to weapons limited by range. They tried bullets that shoot straight in the beta and people were camping at far range calling targets. That sounds pretty unfair and nooby to me. You should have seen the number of posts asking for a toned down accuracy for the Carbine, and to a lesser extent the Battle Rifle.

You aren't a competitive player. You are disguising noob tactics in the guise of competitive play. Go play Counter-Strike and complain to me about the physics based bullet spread. That is a real competitive game.


[Edited on 07.31.2009 10:11 PM PDT]

  • 07.31.2009 10:08 PM PDT

Halo 1>Halo 2>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Halo 3

Want to hear a funny joke? Marijuana prohibition.

Think before posting. You will sound alot less like an idiot next time.

  • 07.31.2009 10:19 PM PDT

Posted by: thewhorocker15
Think before posting. You will sound alot less like an idiot next time.


Lol. Don't troll me kid. You probably failed when it came to math class. How about you go back to Halo 2 and sniper swipe and bxb yourself to level 50 again?

[Edited on 07.31.2009 10:23 PM PDT]

  • 07.31.2009 10:21 PM PDT

Halo 1>Halo 2>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Halo 3

Want to hear a funny joke? Marijuana prohibition.

Refer to my previous response.

  • 07.31.2009 10:23 PM PDT

Posted by: thewhorocker15
Refer to my previous response.


Oh no! Someone on the internet called me an idiot, because they can't come back with a valid rebuttal so they resort to name calling. How many more strokes before your ego reaches it's climax, and you jizz all over the keyboard?

  • 07.31.2009 10:30 PM PDT

Halo 1>Halo 2>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Halo 3

Want to hear a funny joke? Marijuana prohibition.

Posted by: disgruntledfan2
Posted by: thewhorocker15
Refer to my previous response.


Oh no! Someone on the internet called me an idiot, because they can't come back with a valid rebuttal so they resort to name calling. How many more strokes before your ego reaches it's climax, and you jizz all over the keyboard?


Wow, you really take this personally. I don't need to make a rebuttal to your pathetic arguement against me because it didn't make any sense. I'm a noob because I want bullets to shoot straight? Weapons in Halo aren't inconsistent, they're balanced? Seriously, its like trying to argue that 2+2=4

  • 07.31.2009 10:40 PM PDT

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The BR is overused for numerous reasons in Halo 2 and 3.

1. Bungie messed up the weapon sandbox. The BR is the only versatile spawn weapon; the others are specialized so that they only work at one range. The weapons were unique like this in Halo 1 as well, but they were more versatile because they could all operate outside of their designated ranged. Provided you had enough skill, you could kill a Pistol user at midrange when you had the Shotgun. That will NEVER happen in Halo 2 or 3 in a Shotgun vs. BR match, not because the BR guy is good, but because the Shotgun is a re-skinned energy sword. It cannot be used outside of its designated range, at all, while the BR can be. All weapons need to be able to be used outside of their designated ranges.

2. It is the starting weapon in one of the most popular playlists, Team SWAT. You will obviously see lots of BR kills on someone's service record. Other BR-exclusive playlists as BTB and MLG, both of which are fairly popular in their own right.

3. The BR is the only midrange weapon (well, the only one you can spawn with, and the Carbine isn't on most maps), whereas there are TONS of close range weapons (Shotgun, Assault Rifle, SMG, Magnum, Spiker, Plasma Rifle, Sword, Hammer, etc.) for the kills to be split up between. At midrange? Just the BR.

  • 07.31.2009 10:55 PM PDT

Posted by: thewhorocker15
Posted by: disgruntledfan2
Posted by: thewhorocker15
Refer to my previous response.


Oh no! Someone on the internet called me an idiot, because they can't come back with a valid rebuttal so they resort to name calling. How many more strokes before your ego reaches it's climax, and you jizz all over the keyboard?


Wow, you really take this personally. I don't need to make a rebuttal to your pathetic arguement against me because it didn't make any sense. I'm a noob because I want bullets to shoot straight? Weapons in Halo aren't inconsistent, they're balanced? Seriously, its like trying to argue that 2+2=4


Lol. I don't take name calling personally on the internet. People resort to the same trollish actions all the time when they run out of ideas.

It's rather easy to understand. The game is based on a shorter range system. To prevent players from camping at far range with the battle rifle and picking off players with short range weapons they made a slightly flawed decision to decrease the range/accuracy. Obviously, they should have went the other way around, and made the close range weapons shoot farther when burst firing or pulsing. They should have also made some of the duel weapons like the weak plasma rifle and spiker stronger. Is the game balanced? To a certain degree it is, but based on a closer range situation. It is far more balanced then Halo 2; the inferior game. The game is more competitive in that the player has to not only know the range to obtain a four shot, but lead properly in order for all three bullets to hit the head. They must also know they'll have to resort to a five shot in case of packet loss, or slightly inaccurate aim. Or if they are near the border of the weapons range where the spread is big enough to miss a bullet or two they must also predict a 5 shot.

If you want bullets to shoot straight. Then the other weapons must also have a simplistic accuracy system with longer range bullets or else you end up having players camping at far range with an easy to use sniper rifle that kills in four shots; aka the Halo 2 battle rifle. Halo 2 is a game where the only weapon to shoot straight was the Battle Rifle, and it really didn't shoot straight, the bullets just curved an entire crosshair due to the strong bullet magnetism, and it was a hitscan weapon that shot all 3 bullets out at the same time, and you could swipe the weapon and still hit everything.

The problem with you is that you cannot understand the multitude of variables. You make simple analogies of things I've said, because you cannot understand the concepts or the math behind the game. You want something simple like bullets that shoot straight. Which is great if all the other weapons had bullets that shoot straight. Which Halo 2 doesn't have, and that is why Halo 2 is a less skillful game, because it has one weapon that shoots straight. You simply point and shoot. You don't take the other variables into account in order to win. You just point and shoot. You don't even have to aim. You just point in the general direction with any part of the crosshair on the player and shoot. You can swipe the crosshair and still land every bullet with the battle rifle. That is how Halo 2 plays, and that is why it is a less skillful game.

Obviously, you are going to simplify and warp what I've said into a simple analogy that doesn't even make sense.

[Edited on 07.31.2009 11:29 PM PDT]

  • 07.31.2009 11:06 PM PDT

3 slices of LemonPie

The BR is absolutely fine the way it is. It is 2 times harder to use a BR than an AR and 100 times harder to perfect. Good players know this, and so they use it as a skill weapon. If you make a slight mistake, or don't get the first shot off, an AR can easily kill a BR. They made the BR even more balanced by making it require more skill to use by making you have to lead the bullets.

The BR is not a spawn weapon unless it is a BR match, and in that case it balances itself out.(because everyone has one.)

It is not a power weapon, it is what I call a medium weapon. With best play from both sides, a med weapon will beat the spawn weapon, but the spawn weapon still beats the med weapon person at least 40% of the time because of other factors, such as it requiring more skill to use.

With best play a carbine will beat a BR, requiring only 7 headshots, which is quicker than 4 BR shots. However it requires more skill to 7shot carbine someone than to 4shot BR someone, so it balances out, like I said. People who want the BR to be worse are usually pretty bad at it, and worse in the game, so they want the "but he's impossible to kill!!" weapon out of the game. Even if the weapon is honestly not unbalanced. After all, I have noticed that AR guys win more up close fights than BR guys.

I think it works that way, the farther the range, the better off the med weapons, the closer, the better off the AR. If a br and ar start firing at each other at the same time at mele range, and then mele each other right as soon as the earliest kill they can get with it is possible, the AR wins the battle, because it no shields quicker than the BR.

If lower skilled people come into a match and can't effectively BR, then they can use the AR.

The reason we don't spawn with BR unless you are in a hardcore game is because of this. Lower skilled poeple. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. In fact it's a great thing. this allows players of all skill sets to play against each other and enjoy it, rather than having someone who is new to the game start with a BR that they simply can't use. Yet an AR is nearly as effective, yet 10 times easier to use. The only exception is in competitive gametypes. But these are competitive, so new players wouldn't even be in it.

This is just my opinion, and I am open to an intelligent and insultless debate.

[Edited on 07.31.2009 11:24 PM PDT]

  • 07.31.2009 11:11 PM PDT

Voilà!In view,a humble vaudevillian veteran,cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of Fate.This visage, no mere veneer of vanity,is a vestige of the vox populi,now vacant, vanished.However,this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation,stands vivified and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin van-guarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition.

Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
The BR needs to be made single shot and should have its range increased. It needs to be more powerful, not less powerful, but it should also have less aim assist so it takes more skill (like the Halo 1 pistol).

In turn, remove dual wielding and beef up all weapons (like the Needler's power increase, but not so drastic) and make them more versatile (can be used at more ranges that just close/melee range), so the BR will not be overused or overpowered.


the BR should be a single shot semi automactic weapon but it should keep the same damage ( maybe slightly stronger so there is a more consistent 4 shot in matchmaking ) there are to many times when I myself have been using the burst as a crutch and getting kills on players when my aim was less than perfect, or when they have caught me off guard, its seems unfair

but dual weilding is a good system it adds variety to game play have options and creating different combos which work in different ways and have certain strengths and weakness, while when dual wielding you don't have access to meelee or grenades you can inflict more damage shooting two guns than one, while on the other side of the dual wields, when you single wield those guns you may not be inflicting damage shooting you may be inflicting damages with grenades and meelee, which opens ups new style of gameplay

  • 08.01.2009 12:36 PM PDT

Halo 1>Halo 2>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Halo 3

Want to hear a funny joke? Marijuana prohibition.

Posted by: disgruntledfan2
Posted by: thewhorocker15
Posted by: disgruntledfan2
Posted by: thewhorocker15
Refer to my previous response.


Oh no! Someone on the internet called me an idiot, because they can't come back with a valid rebuttal so they resort to name calling. How many more strokes before your ego reaches it's climax, and you jizz all over the keyboard?


Wow, you really take this personally. I don't need to make a rebuttal to your pathetic arguement against me because it didn't make any sense. I'm a noob because I want bullets to shoot straight? Weapons in Halo aren't inconsistent, they're balanced? Seriously, its like trying to argue that 2+2=4


Lol. I don't take name calling personally on the internet. People resort to the same trollish actions all the time when they run out of ideas.

It's rather easy to understand. The game is based on a shorter range system. To prevent players from camping at far range with the battle rifle and picking off players with short range weapons they made a slightly flawed decision to decrease the range/accuracy. Obviously, they should have went the other way around, and made the close range weapons shoot farther when burst firing or pulsing. They should have also made some of the duel weapons like the weak plasma rifle and spiker stronger. Is the game balanced? To a certain degree it is, but based on a closer range situation. It is far more balanced then Halo 2; the inferior game. The game is more competitive in that the player has to not only know the range to obtain a four shot, but lead properly in order for all three bullets to hit the head. They must also know they'll have to resort to a five shot in case of packet loss, or slightly inaccurate aim. Or if they are near the border of the weapons range where the spread is big enough to miss a bullet or two they must also predict a 5 shot.

If you want bullets to shoot straight. Then the other weapons must also have a simplistic accuracy system with longer range bullets or else you end up having players camping at far range with an easy to use sniper rifle that kills in four shots; aka the Halo 2 battle rifle. Halo 2 is a game where the only weapon to shoot straight was the Battle Rifle, and it really didn't shoot straight, the bullets just curved an entire crosshair due to the strong bullet magnetism, and it was a hitscan weapon that shot all 3 bullets out at the same time, and you could swipe the weapon and still hit everything.

The problem with you is that you cannot understand the multitude of variables. You make simple analogies of things I've said, because you cannot understand the concepts or the math behind the game. You want something simple like bullets that shoot straight. Which is great if all the other weapons had bullets that shoot straight. Which Halo 2 doesn't have, and that is why Halo 2 is a less skillful game, because it has one weapon that shoots straight. You simply point and shoot. You don't take the other variables into account in order to win. You just point and shoot. You don't even have to aim. You just point in the general direction with any part of the crosshair on the player and shoot. You can swipe the crosshair and still land every bullet with the battle rifle. That is how Halo 2 plays, and that is why it is a less skillful game.

Obviously, you are going to simplify and warp what I've said into a simple analogy that doesn't even make sense.


Since this whole arguement has been off topic to the thread, this will be the last post I make in here relating to the Halo 2 v.s. Halo 3 discussion.

The big thing that offsets everything that you said is that every weapon in Halo 3 is inconsistent. This is not an opinion, it is a fact. This makes the game based more on luck, rather than skill. There was a big thread on a BR patch request a while ago in which a Bungie employee stated weapons in Halo 3 are inconsistent for a reason. Proof right there.

I have had someone tell me before that the game is still fair because each player has to deal with inconsistencies and shots that dont register. However, the game is so inconsistent, your guns will not preform the way they should at different times. Meaning one player can have a full clip not register and be fine with it because the bullets didn't register at a point in the game where it was not crucial for each teammate to perform their best. However, one guy on the oppposite team could drop one shot and end up losing the game. This makes the game more based on luck rather than skill, and favors way too much in the casual player's desired gameplay.

Something I think we can both agree on though, Halo 1 takes the most skill out of any in the trilogy. At the same time, casual players could enjoy a fun, fast paced game of Shotguns or Rockets because the weapons were consistent and effective. All of them. This is what I want from Reach; weapons to be effective once more. I'm not asking this to be included in the default settings, but at least to be included in the custom game options so that all players could be satisfied. Even the most stubborn BNET kid couldn't disagree with that.

  • 08.01.2009 1:04 PM PDT

Voilà!In view,a humble vaudevillian veteran,cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of Fate.This visage, no mere veneer of vanity,is a vestige of the vox populi,now vacant, vanished.However,this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation,stands vivified and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin van-guarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition.

Posted by: thewhorocker15
Posted by: disgruntledfan2
Posted by: thewhorocker15
Posted by: disgruntledfan2
Posted by: thewhorocker15
Refer to my previous response.


Oh no! Someone on the internet called me an idiot, because they can't come back with a valid rebuttal so they resort to name calling. How many more strokes before your ego reaches it's climax, and you jizz all over the keyboard?


Wow, you really take this personally. I don't need to make a rebuttal to your pathetic arguement against me because it didn't make any sense. I'm a noob because I want bullets to shoot straight? Weapons in Halo aren't inconsistent, they're balanced? Seriously, its like trying to argue that 2+2=4


Lol. I don't take name calling personally on the internet. People resort to the same trollish actions all the time when they run out of ideas.

It's rather easy to understand. The game is based on a shorter range system. To prevent players from camping at far range with the battle rifle and picking off players with short range weapons they made a slightly flawed decision to decrease the range/accuracy. Obviously, they should have went the other way around, and made the close range weapons shoot farther when burst firing or pulsing. They should have also made some of the duel weapons like the weak plasma rifle and spiker stronger. Is the game balanced? To a certain degree it is, but based on a closer range situation. It is far more balanced then Halo 2; the inferior game. The game is more competitive in that the player has to not only know the range to obtain a four shot, but lead properly in order for all three bullets to hit the head. They must also know they'll have to resort to a five shot in case of packet loss, or slightly inaccurate aim. Or if they are near the border of the weapons range where the spread is big enough to miss a bullet or two they must also predict a 5 shot.

If you want bullets to shoot straight. Then the other weapons must also have a simplistic accuracy system with longer range bullets or else you end up having players camping at far range with an easy to use sniper rifle that kills in four shots; aka the Halo 2 battle rifle. Halo 2 is a game where the only weapon to shoot straight was the Battle Rifle, and it really didn't shoot straight, the bullets just curved an entire crosshair due to the strong bullet magnetism, and it was a hitscan weapon that shot all 3 bullets out at the same time, and you could swipe the weapon and still hit everything.

The problem with you is that you cannot understand the multitude of variables. You make simple analogies of things I've said, because you cannot understand the concepts or the math behind the game. You want something simple like bullets that shoot straight. Which is great if all the other weapons had bullets that shoot straight. Which Halo 2 doesn't have, and that is why Halo 2 is a less skillful game, because it has one weapon that shoots straight. You simply point and shoot. You don't take the other variables into account in order to win. You just point and shoot. You don't even have to aim. You just point in the general direction with any part of the crosshair on the player and shoot. You can swipe the crosshair and still land every bullet with the battle rifle. That is how Halo 2 plays, and that is why it is a less skillful game.

Obviously, you are going to simplify and warp what I've said into a simple analogy that doesn't even make sense.


Since this whole arguement has been off topic to the thread, this will be the last post I make in here relating to the Halo 2 v.s. Halo 3 discussion.

The big thing that offsets everything that you said is that every weapon in Halo 3 is inconsistent. This is not an opinion, it is a fact. This makes the game based more on luck, rather than skill. There was a big thread on a BR patch request a while ago in which a Bungie employee stated weapons in Halo 3 are inconsistent for a reason. Proof right there.

I have had someone tell me before that the game is still fair because each player has to deal with inconsistencies and shots that dont register. However, the game is so inconsistent, your guns will not preform the way they should at different times. Meaning one player can have a full clip not register and be fine with it because the bullets didn't register at a point in the game where it was not crucial for each teammate to perform their best. However, one guy on the oppposite team could drop one shot and end up losing the game. This makes the game more based on luck rather than skill, and favors way too much in the casual player's desired gameplay.

Something I think we can both agree on though, Halo 1 takes the most skill out of any in the trilogy. At the same time, casual players could enjoy a fun, fast paced game of Shotguns or Rockets because the weapons were consistent and effective. All of them. This is what I want from Reach; weapons to be effective once more. I'm not asking this to be included in the default settings, but at least to be included in the custom game options so that all players could be satisfied. Even the most stubborn BNET kid couldn't disagree with that.


Inconsistentsy would seem to pose a problem in Halo 3, but out of all the inconsistentsy the BR would seem to be the most consistent weapon,its damage is one of the most consistent in the game, next to the snipers and rockets, no matter what range you are at the BR is for the most part a 4-5 headshot weapon the only time when you will have to fire more shots to get the kill is at long range where your not as accurate due to the lack of hitscan of all weapons, while other weapons damage is mainly determined by distance from the target, making them more inconsistent than the BR

  • 08.01.2009 1:59 PM PDT