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This topic has moved here: Subject: Rebalancing the BR (v2)
  • Subject: Rebalancing the BR (v2)
Subject: Rebalancing the BR (v2)

O hai

It seems like all you do is make threads petitioning the nerfing/removal of the BR. You're "weapon sets" all feature guns that do not promote longer range gameplay, which in turn makes the game slower and campier. Unless you like getting spawn killed by snipers on maps like Valhalla and The Pit, Halo 3 needs a mid range weapon that can effectively counter any situation off spawn. I shouldn't have to die again because someone else has grabbed decent weapons from around the map. Seriously, wake up. Maybe if you make some more anti-br threads someone will start caring...

  • 08.01.2009 2:15 PM PDT
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It's been said, all weapons need to be more versatile like the BR.

  • 08.01.2009 2:23 PM PDT
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Yeah I definitly agree with the BR being too powerful and over used and all, but i also think that it is sort of needed. True, it is very powerful, but it can be used by everyone. The BR has also always been a part of Halo. But i definitly agree with u it should be changed.

  • 08.01.2009 2:44 PM PDT

I blame the BR and Bungie for making the other weapons unbalanced.

Posted by: Bullet _ Sponge
The problem is that all the other weapons are not versatile. The BR is great in many situation and it can easily adapt with the use of grenades and sometimes melee. Most other weapons have one use, melee range combat. Bungie needs to make all weapons useful again. Don't blame the BR for poor weapon balance. The M6D was way more powerful, killing in under a second but the game was balanced due to the other weapons being useful as well.

  • 08.01.2009 2:46 PM PDT

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Posted by: SweetTRIX
A good writeup, but one thing that many forget when talking about weapon balance is map design. The way a map is designed has huge impact on the weapons effectiveness in combat. For example a ranged weapon will only benefit (in typical scenario's) if there are decent firing lanes, and open spaces. Add a ton of obstructions and you have lessened the weapons effectiveness.

This has a huge impact on BR gameplay, and adds to the benefit of using a BR. The only time I wouldn't use a BR is if I was coming around a corner or waiting for someone to do the same. In nearly any other instance I will have my BR out. A good example of what i'm saying is to compare the BR's functionality on The Pit against it's functionality on Gaurdian, it's a pretty big difference. Though there are many that don't like to acknowledge something like this, it plays into the balance of a weapon.


If we were playing Halo 3 on Halo 2 maps, the BR would be a POS, because the Halo 3 BR is incredibly nerfed when compared to the Halo 2 BR.

I think the BR works just fine, as is shown by veto stats and so on in Halo 3. All I can say is maybe Bungie can put in the auto-mag and the scoped SMG to add some "variety" to mid-range gameplay. Also they can just take out dual wielding because dual wielding made half the guns in Halo 3 useless.

Also most kills in Halo come from mid-range (look it up on Halo charts). So I just say make the mid-range sandbox bigger, and the CQC smaller but maybe more effective. Because if you make these CQC guns better and the BR weaker know you have a brawler instead of Halo 3 an FPS game.

[Edited on 08.01.2009 2:53 PM PDT]

  • 08.01.2009 2:52 PM PDT

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Posted by: weird death guy
It seems like all you do is make threads petitioning the nerfing/removal of the BR. You're "weapon sets" all feature guns that do not promote longer range gameplay, which in turn makes the game slower and campier. Unless you like getting spawn killed by snipers on maps like Valhalla and The Pit, Halo 3 needs a mid range weapon that can effectively counter any situation off spawn. I shouldn't have to die again because someone else has grabbed decent weapons from around the map. Seriously, wake up. Maybe if you make some more anti-br threads someone will start caring...


what this thread is about is how effective the Br is, right now the BR is easily the most used most effective weapon in the game, the BR will operate effectivly at any range, most weapons only operate at their design range unless the user is skilled enough to adapt the weapon to combat outside it design range, like the sniper it works well at long range, and is pretty good at mid range depeding on the targets weapons, but to use the sniper at close range the user must have steady consistent aim to land the shots needed within a small time frame, other close range weapons like the shotgun can only be used at close range seeing how the buckshots will dissapear at any greater range, the Brute shot has slower moving projectiles and in order to use it at mid range you must lead your shots consinderably and they are easily dodged still then. those weapons are balanced and can only be used at their design range unless the user has certain skill and abilities and can adapt their weapon to the combat range other weapons are design for

the BR however can easily be used at any range, it has access to grenades and meelee at close range which allow the BR to get a 1 shot kill, and the radar will allow the BR user to "see" anyone at close range before most close range weapons can even become effective. at mid range the burst crutches your accuracy to being near perfect, don't believe me, get within 25m of someone and place your reditcule slightly off the head, your shots will register, they may not be as damaging, but you can get a good 5-6 shot on them. the scope increase the BR range from 45m to about 65m and the burst increases the chances of shots register and it is harder to dodge 3 projectiles at once that it is to dodge a single projectile. in short te BR can be used at any range with little change in how you use the BR

most of these flaws do not lie with the BR though, they lie within the system itself, most weapons become ineffective at mid range due to increasing inaccuracy or decreasing damage
the meelee system also seems broken and the BR has the ability to effectivly use te broken meelee system if meelee did less shield damage like the Halo CE meelee system the BR couldn't utilize the beatdown headshot kills and would force the BR user to shoot more before the meelee and would open up the time needed for other weapons to do considerable damage before their meelee attack.

[Edited on 08.01.2009 3:15 PM PDT]

  • 08.01.2009 3:05 PM PDT

Posted by: Ksychutrya
Also they can just take out dual wielding because dual wielding made half the guns in Halo 3 useless.

Use more dual wieldable weapons by themselves then, if you try, they are just as strong as the AR at close range.

Dual wielding is a great aspect of Halo, and doesn't need to be removed.

  • 08.01.2009 3:22 PM PDT
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Legends never die.

Posted by: SweetTRIX
Halo2/3 is anywhere near as difficult to be decent at as CE was, not with the easy kills offered up in the sequals.
that
The same thing you said of my "biased point of view" could be said of yours, or anyone else that may have started with the sequals. I can say with confidence though that most of the old timers on these forums will agree with the opinion that CE was the harder game, in both campaign and MP.


4 sure. Halo CE's campaign felt so epic. Nowadays you can just breeze through it in a day. Even on legendary!

The CE MP was so much more intense- me and my friends would play for hours just screaming at each other and hitting each other in the arm

Posted by: SweetTRIX This is only true if everyone likes to use the BR, but there are several that either are no good with it, or simply don't care for it. Preferencial issues aside BR starts streamline gameplay more than anything, for some it's an issue, for others not so much. Halo was always enjoyable to most people I know because of it's variety, it wasn't just a rifle game, but the BR has brought it there because the players found an easy way to be consistently effective and as such it is the most widely used weapon in MP.

All of that being said you could argue that it isn't balance, but being as it's the only weapon that surpasses it's own utility (it is effective at more than just mid-range) it is technically imbalanced, no matter how you or I or anyone else feel about it. Shoot, I use the damn thing whenever I can get one, but that doesn't mean it's balanced.


QUOTED FOR TRUTH

END THREAD/

  • 08.01.2009 4:02 PM PDT

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Posted by: TR1GGERHAPPYA55
Posted by: SweetTRIX
Halo2/3 is anywhere near as difficult to be decent at as CE was, not with the easy kills offered up in the sequals.
that
The same thing you said of my "biased point of view" could be said of yours, or anyone else that may have started with the sequals. I can say with confidence though that most of the old timers on these forums will agree with the opinion that CE was the harder game, in both campaign and MP.


4 sure. Halo CE's campaign felt so epic. Nowadays you can just breeze through it in a day. Even on legendary!

The CE MP was so much more intense- me and my friends would play for hours just screaming at each other and hitting each other in the arm

Posted by: SweetTRIX This is only true if everyone likes to use the BR, but there are several that either are no good with it, or simply don't care for it. Preferencial issues aside BR starts streamline gameplay more than anything, for some it's an issue, for others not so much. Halo was always enjoyable to most people I know because of it's variety, it wasn't just a rifle game, but the BR has brought it there because the players found an easy way to be consistently effective and as such it is the most widely used weapon in MP.

All of that being said you could argue that it isn't balance, but being as it's the only weapon that surpasses it's own utility (it is effective at more than just mid-range) it is technically imbalanced, no matter how you or I or anyone else feel about it. Shoot, I use the damn thing whenever I can get one, but that doesn't mean it's balanced.


QUOTED FOR TRUTH

END THREAD/


Halo CE campaine was pretty good, but if you would stay on topic.

QUOTED FOR TRUTH

  • 08.01.2009 6:48 PM PDT

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Posted by: mubox47
$.50 in store credit.

Posted by: TR1GGERHAPPYA55
Posted by: SweetTRIX
Halo2/3 is anywhere near as difficult to be decent at as CE was, not with the easy kills offered up in the sequals.
that
The same thing you said of my "biased point of view" could be said of yours, or anyone else that may have started with the sequals. I can say with confidence though that most of the old timers on these forums will agree with the opinion that CE was the harder game, in both campaign and MP.


4 sure. Halo CE's campaign felt so epic. Nowadays you can just breeze through it in a day. Even on legendary!

The CE MP was so much more intense- me and my friends would play for hours just screaming at each other and hitting each other in the arm

Posted by: SweetTRIX This is only true if everyone likes to use the BR, but there are several that either are no good with it, or simply don't care for it. Preferencial issues aside BR starts streamline gameplay more than anything, for some it's an issue, for others not so much. Halo was always enjoyable to most people I know because of it's variety, it wasn't just a rifle game, but the BR has brought it there because the players found an easy way to be consistently effective and as such it is the most widely used weapon in MP.

All of that being said you could argue that it isn't balance, but being as it's the only weapon that surpasses it's own utility (it is effective at more than just mid-range) it is technically imbalanced, no matter how you or I or anyone else feel about it. Shoot, I use the damn thing whenever I can get one, but that doesn't mean it's balanced.


QUOTED FOR TRUTH

END THREAD/
I dont think you understood TRIX there. To me it looked like he agreed that the BR was usefull to often, and that it isn't balanced. That would not end the thread.

  • 08.01.2009 7:22 PM PDT

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i think YOU eakle should look at this thread

  • 08.01.2009 7:24 PM PDT
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Decreasing the effectiveness of the BR will only hurt this game further. The pistol from Halo CE was much more powerful than the Halo 3 BR and the multi player was better in that game.

  • 08.01.2009 7:29 PM PDT

The BR is over powered at all ranges?
Mid range (S2-Top Mid in guardian) it is a little above semi effective because of spread, close range (bottom of snowbound) it can be beat by the AR or any dual wield if in melee range, close range it can also be beat by, sword, shotty, hammer, missile pod, turret, sniper, rockets, even laser. At longer Ranges (S2-G2 on guardian) its like winning the lottery when you get a 4shot (Host helps with this)

[Edited on 08.01.2009 8:40 PM PDT]

  • 08.01.2009 8:32 PM PDT

these are good ideas and i hope bungie chooses one of them

  • 08.02.2009 8:07 AM PDT

its called a gun thwat you need skill 4 aka an mlg gun.... you must suck if you hate it so -blam!- much

  • 08.02.2009 10:17 AM PDT

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I will repeat this for people who looked over it. The BR is overused for numerous reasons in Halo 2 and 3.

1. Bungie messed up the weapon sandbox. The BR is the only versatile spawn weapon; the others are specialized so that they only work at one range. The weapons were unique like this in Halo 1 as well, but they were more versatile because they could all operate outside of their designated ranged. Provided you had enough skill, you could kill a Pistol user at midrange when you had the Shotgun. That will NEVER happen in Halo 2 or 3 in a Shotgun vs. BR match, not because the BR guy is good, but because the Shotgun is a re-skinned energy sword. It cannot be used outside of its designated range, at all, while the BR can be. All weapons need to be able to be used outside of their designated ranges.

2. It is the starting weapon in one of the most popular playlists, Team SWAT. You will obviously see lots of BR kills on someone's service record. Other BR-exclusive playlists as BTB and MLG, both of which are fairly popular in their own right.

3. The BR is the only midrange weapon (well, the only one you can spawn with, and the Carbine isn't on most maps), whereas there are TONS of close range weapons (Shotgun, Assault Rifle, SMG, Magnum, Spiker, Plasma Rifle, Sword, Hammer, etc.) for the kills to be split up between. At midrange? Just the BR.

  • 08.02.2009 10:38 AM PDT

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Alright, alright! I'm on the second post and I'll finish reading it later but I get the idea. However, I respectfully disagree. I think the compensations and strengths of the BR have been the most balanced of the Halo games yet. Even though it can get more kills per magazine, most people do not use the entire magazine.

I really like the alternative as I've made a ginormous post on that myself. Several in fact... Other weapons, like the Plasma Rifle and Spiker, should be priority for an effectiveness boost.

You also said that one of the biggest problems with the H3 BR is that it appears too often. That is a problem that can be amended in Halo 3. Like... right now. The flexibility of Forge has made it possible to create your own weapon set the new standard and it has proven results. All the Maulers have been taken out of Guardian because of player complaints. The Rockets on Narrows were put down to the bridge for a more competitive rush. Now what of making the BR a less common weapon? I think it should be based on the players starting weapon.

For example, if you start with a BR, more effective weapons will appear on the map, like the Sentinel Beam, or the Fuel Rod Cannon. If you start with an AR, more close range and duel-wieldable weapons will appear. The BR will be much less common too and be treated more like another power weapon like a Sniper.

If the answer is variety, well... have some variety, then.

  • 08.02.2009 11:05 AM PDT

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Again with this? Is the BR even confirmed to be in Reach?

  • 08.02.2009 11:12 AM PDT

If you want to see the MC die, play Legendary. If you want to see MC finish the fight, play Halo 3. If you want to see MC finish the fight by dieing, why did you waste six years when you could have done it yourself right now?

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Posted by: xxlizardlipsxx
Again with this? Is the BR even confirmed to be in Reach?

All that is confirmed is that Reach is a shooter. Everything else is assumed and based on queries with Halo 3.

  • 08.02.2009 11:13 AM PDT

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Posted by: bansheeownz
Posted by: xxlizardlipsxx
Again with this? Is the BR even confirmed to be in Reach?

All that is confirmed is that Reach is a shooter. Everything else is assumed and based on queries with Halo 3.


Not everything is assumed, according to cannon the BR did exist on Reach in 2552, we maybe using it, maybe. but in this theory, for the sake of debate, we will say the BR will exist and be usable in Reach

  • 08.02.2009 12:16 PM PDT

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I can think of two different solutions for this "BR problem"

One way would be to adapt the existing BR. I propose that we should increase the shots fired from 3 to 4 per burst, but keep the 4-shot ability, as this will make it so that only two people can be killed per magazine.By increasing the reload time, this would leave the user vunerable to a counter-attack, weakening the BR slightly

Another way would be to scrap it completely, and replace it with the MA5K Assult rifle. It looks simlar to the BR, but without the scope. In the books it is fully automatic, but so is the BR, so perhaps for gameplay reasons give it burst fire. This will make the weapon less of a useable weapon compared to the BR, but still being a worthy weapon, as the BR can kill without the scope.

Also, there exists the M6J carbine, which is a M6 with a stock. Perhaps that could replace the BR, but I'm not so sure about that one, as it is an Army varient, not the marines.

I said this in the last BR topic you made

  • 08.02.2009 12:24 PM PDT

I think that the BR should be an extremely versatile weapon in Reach. Possibly only for Campaign, but maybe for multiplayer. It has three firing modes itself: Full Auto, Three round bursts, and Single Shots. Maybe have a small clip size for single shots, regular size for three round, and large for full auto.

  • 08.02.2009 12:32 PM PDT

stuck u

how bout a BR single shot x2 scope and a 12 round mag

  • 08.02.2009 12:37 PM PDT

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Posted by: Sticky 6585
how bout a BR single shot x2 scope and a 12 round mag


16 round mag, cause if you think about it on average you will shoot the BR 5 times a kill, this will allow 3 kills per clip and only one screw up and 4 kills per clip if and only if your actually good at the game and can aim perfectly all the time, with this its more of the Halo CE pistol reskinned to look like the BR.

  • 08.02.2009 12:48 PM PDT

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Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
I will repeat this for people who looked over it. The BR is overused for numerous reasons in Halo 2 and 3.

1. Bungie messed up the weapon sandbox. The BR is the only versatile spawn weapon; the others are specialized so that they only work at one range. The weapons were unique like this in Halo 1 as well, but they were more versatile because they could all operate outside of their designated ranged. Provided you had enough skill, you could kill a Pistol user at midrange when you had the Shotgun. That will NEVER happen in Halo 2 or 3 in a Shotgun vs. BR match, not because the BR guy is good, but because the Shotgun is a re-skinned energy sword. It cannot be used outside of its designated range, at all, while the BR can be. All weapons need to be able to be used outside of their designated ranges.

2. It is the starting weapon in one of the most popular playlists, Team SWAT. You will obviously see lots of BR kills on someone's service record. Other BR-exclusive playlists as BTB and MLG, both of which are fairly popular in their own right.

3. The BR is the only midrange weapon (well, the only one you can spawn with, and the Carbine isn't on most maps), whereas there are TONS of close range weapons (Shotgun, Assault Rifle, SMG, Magnum, Spiker, Plasma Rifle, Sword, Hammer, etc.) for the kills to be split up between. At midrange? Just the BR.


I respectfully disagree with your halo ce comment. If the person using the pistol at mid range is completely bad yes you can kill him with a shotgun. That is no different than in Halo 3, ive done that many times in Halo 3.

Other than that I believe we should get some weapon that acts and shoots just like the halo 2 br and have all the other weapons beefed up.

  • 08.02.2009 5:41 PM PDT