- The EAKLE
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- Fabled Mythic Member
Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.
Posted by: mubox47
$.50 in store credit.
Posted by: nunnner
I only read the original post so this is in response to that.
First off lets talk about range - from reading your post the AR is a "very close" range weapon since you mention the BR being overly effective from just outside the AR range.
The AR is a close range weapon, and the BR is a medium range weapon.
Very close I would call sword/beat down range.
At the edge of your radar, the AR's reticule is still red. However, at this range most shots miss and it is very unlikely to kill with only 16 shots. At the same range, a BR can kill in 4-5 shots.
So if you agree that the AR is a close range, not very close range weapon, then the BR is not effective at close range - assuming you have 2 people of equal skill. Same as my last paragraph. The AR will have a red reticule at a pretty close range and most bullets will hit. The BR can easily land a few shots within that range.
That kind of leads into my next point - 2 people of equal skill. That's the only way you can assess if something is balanced, and I don't really see that in your post.I shouldnt have to say "If an AR user goes around a corner and meets a BR user of equal skill. . ." If they werent of equal skill then there would be no argument of who should win. Obviously i intended the people in my example to be the same skill.
There is another issue though. The AR is much harder to use effectively than a BR. Almost anyone can aim for the head and strafe. With an AR all you have to do is rush spray and melee. Most people think that is all an AR can do. They are wrong. An AR can be very effective if you know how to use it. If you are fighting a BR you have to strafe to dodge his shots, you have to close in and get in range, and then you have to melee before he does. If he landed three shots on you and melees, you will both die. There is not an equal skill there. Using an AR effectively takes a different set of skills than using a BR effectively.
Next comment is that you leave out some key points about the weapons when calling them balanced.
- Beat downs: Most of the weapons you discuss you leave out beat downs which really complicates things. I think i incorporated beat down into most of my points. At Beat down range a BR should not beat an SMG. Most of the time it wont, because the SMG has a higher rate of fire. After a beat down if both players are shieldless, the SMG will probably be able to land a couple of shots before the BR gets in a head shot. the BR will only win if he is a better player.
However, let's look at the AR again. The edge of a radar is in it's "effective range", yet it doesnt land 16 consecutive shots easily at that range. A BR user can land three shots while closing in, likely ending in a trade. Even though the BR is fighting in the AR's effective range, it has a very good chance of "trading" kills, or winning. My proposal to improve the AR would fix this. If the AR started out more accurate than it does now, it would be effective at that range when fired in bursts. To stop it from being overpowered, the conr of fire would expand faster. At this range it would be on even terms with the BR, and would gain advantage as the BR closes in. The AR would be an effective close range weapon. To use it at mid range, you would need ot be very good. Shots could ony come in bursts f 3-5 if you want accuracy, and you need to land 16 shots still.
- BR Spread: You mention this but I think it's more important than you lead on. Unless you are awesome and should be playing MLG then hitting someone with all 3 bullets 3 times in the body is really really hard - I'm a level 50 and I can probably count the times I've 4 shotted someone form just outside AR range - who wasn't running straight at me (player skill again) on one hand. Mostly due to spread and just the overall difficulty of landing BR shots. I learned something in my last thread that i think most people dont know. It does not take 4 head shots to kill. It takes 3 body shots to drop shields, then a 4rth in the head to kill. How hard is it to land 3 body shots and then 1 head shot? Not very hard. BR spread is not massive at short range. People just think it is because they always aim for the head, which is the smaller target. The bullets spread a little bit and may miss the head, but if you aim at the body for the first three shots BR spread is much less likely to effect you. This is not a flaw with the BR, it is a flaw of players not knowing how to use a BR to its full abilities.
- Biggest point, as mentioned above, is DIFFICULTY. The BR is a difficult weapon to be good with. since the bullets travel in bursts of three with a gap between each burst, accuracy is very important - no spray and pray ability like the AR.As i said before, the AR is not being used tt its full abilities when you just "spray and pray." On top of that, Halo is not CoD. An AR takes 16 bullets to kill, and that is hard to get at the edge of the AR. It also gets even harder ther farther away you are. "Noobs" are not the ones "spraying and praying," the real "noob" is the one getting killed by someone randomly firing.
A BR is difficult to use? Really? I, an average player with a highest skill of 35, have been getting BR kills for a long time. It is not hard to land three body shots then aim for the head and fire two more. All the BR fans say "The BR takes more skill because you need head shots and you can just spray!" In reality, none of that is true. You can kill with like 5 or 6 body shots. Aiming at the body is not hard at all, and all you have to do is pound the trigger until they die. Of, to kill even quicker, land three body shots and aim for the head. The fourth may kill them, the fifth almost always will, and the sixth will. If it doesnt, you are way to far out of range and probably couldnt land the first three anyway. You do not have to aim for the head. You can aim for the body and open fire. That is basically the same as the AR user "spraying and praying," but effective at a longer range.
Yes, the BR has bullet spread. So does nearly every other weapon in the game. The BR's spread is not as bad as an AR's or SMG's. A magnum has a spread similar to the carbines -a single bullet but it does not fly straight to the center of the reticule. The argument "BRs have bullet spread" makes absolutely no sense.
the BR is the least difficult starting wepaon to use. It can kill in 12 bullets (less than an AR) but has a much farther range. Those 12 bullets come in bursts of 3, meaning it kills with less pulls of the trigger than a magnum. It is more accurate than both of those guns, and has a clip that contains enough ammo for three kills. People say that is because of the bullet spread. The AR has much worse bullet spread, yte only two kills per clip. The magnum bullet has a prety random path, and it doesnt even have enough ammo for two kills. The BR kills in less bullets, has a farther range, and has room for mistakes. What is difficult about that?
The biggest reason you make this thread probably isn't because people of likewise skill beat you with the BR, it's because people who are better at the game beat you with the BR. And it is too bad that the BR is a big part of the game you don't like - but you still played more than 4000 games so I think you're doing OK. No. The italicized text at the beginning of the OP states my point very clearly. I like the BR, but i think it would improve game play to tone it down or replace it with a simmilar, but slightly less effective mid range weapon.
The biggest issue with the "EAKLE's a BR hating BK" point is that even if the BR is toned down, i'll also have a toned down version. If i cant kill someone with a BR how would i be better off wiht a weaker BR?
Why weakening the BR is a bad idea: removes the ability to improve. If the BR is/was weakened the game would be easier to be really good at. The most fun I had in this game was grinding from a 45 to a 50 in Slayer. It took me awhile but I got really good with the BR and it was rewarding. Now I don't play much anymore and I suck with the BR and get owned, which does kind of suck. But if you can't get better at something, then why play at all?
P.S. this was too long to proof read and is a bit ranty, but whatever - Also Halo 1 piston was not balanced by increased power in other weapons, it was far more dominant than the BR is in halo 3.
the BR is not the only "skill based" weapon. Every weapon takes some sort of skill. As i pointed out the BR is no more difficult than using a AR or magnum, and i believe it is less difficult. If the BR gets slower bullets or a smaller clip, people can still improve at the game.
[Edited on 08.05.2009 9:07 AM PDT]