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  • Subject: For People Who Don't Want Classes
Subject: For People Who Don't Want Classes

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Posted by: SWOOSH 0309
So many idiots, it's unbelievable.

No one is giving a legitimate reason as to how a class system would not work in Reach.

What works doesn't need to be fixed.

Because Halo 3 is balanced, right?

The only balanced multiplayer was Halo CE- Halo 2 had one weapon dominance, hitscan, glitches, etc., Halo 3 has continual conflicts on just its spawn system alone.

It's almost as if people think Halo Reach will become a Ridge Racer game that adapts elements of Final Fantasy. The only possible suggestion to see more variety in Halo was a class system, but obviously having an opinion is frowned upon. Changing a multiplayer does not change the game itself, it will always be Halo because of its story.

These 9 pages have been the poorest excuse for a debate I have ever seen. Even a religious thread seems to have better discussion, and those are useless.

NO ONE IS SAYING THAT HALO REACH WILL HAVE A CLASS BASED MULTIPLAYER, IT'S ONLY AN IDEA. Get a better argument as to why there shouldn't be a class system- not that customizable crap in COD 4& W@W or R6V, but an actual class system that can be balanced.


I find the argument: "It sounds boring and I do not want any classes" excellent. Since after all? Isn't that what it is about? That you should enjoy the game? I would not enjoy a game with classes since I believe that it removes a lot of what is Halo from the game. The opinion to turn classes on and off would be awesome however. Everyone is happy.

  • 08.05.2009 2:56 AM PDT
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Non-Playable Charater

Bungie should just make a new campaign for Halo: Reach, then add the Halo 3 multiplayer with few more maps and sell it as expensive as a new game.

Seriously now, I bet the Halo: Reach will be like Halo 3, but with a few new tricks rather than something completely different.


  • 08.05.2009 3:03 AM PDT
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What's the point to trying? The game's already at least two years old, they're not making a big change now. It won't have classes, Bungie said that. But, for the entire idea, I don't like it. Halo IS a FPS, (or was, until Halo Wars came out, which in my opinon sucked) and we love it because of that. Halo may take that step in the future, when Bungie runs out of FPS ideas, but until then enjoy Halo for what it is.

  • 08.05.2009 8:21 AM PDT

"When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons! What am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give EL1TE SUPR3MACY lemons! Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!"

I enjoy Halo's current style of gameplay, and I want Bungie's final Halo game to perfect it's design. No new or radical gameplay changes, just the classic Halo action that I fell in love with.

  • 08.05.2009 8:44 AM PDT

One does not simply walk into Halo.

Posted by: MBT HawkChampion
Posted by: SWOOSH 0309
So many idiots, it's unbelievable.

No one is giving a legitimate reason as to how a class system would not work in Reach.

What works doesn't need to be fixed.

Because Halo 3 is balanced, right?

The only balanced multiplayer was Halo CE- Halo 2 had one weapon dominance, hitscan, glitches, etc., Halo 3 has continual conflicts on just its spawn system alone.

It's almost as if people think Halo Reach will become a Ridge Racer game that adapts elements of Final Fantasy. The only possible suggestion to see more variety in Halo was a class system, but obviously having an opinion is frowned upon. Changing a multiplayer does not change the game itself, it will always be Halo because of its story.

These 9 pages have been the poorest excuse for a debate I have ever seen. Even a religious thread seems to have better discussion, and those are useless.

NO ONE IS SAYING THAT HALO REACH WILL HAVE A CLASS BASED MULTIPLAYER, IT'S ONLY AN IDEA. Get a better argument as to why there shouldn't be a class system- not that customizable crap in COD 4& W@W or R6V, but an actual class system that can be balanced.


I find the argument: "It sounds boring and I do not want any classes" excellent. Since after all? Isn't that what it is about? That you should enjoy the game? I would not enjoy a game with classes since I believe that it removes a lot of what is Halo from the game. The opinion to turn classes on and off would be awesome however. Everyone is happy.

And that's your opinion, it's understandable that people don't like the idea, hell I'd be fine if they kept it the same, it doesn't matter to me. But, when you have people that say it won't work and don't elaborate on that claim, that's the problem. What is the point of saying something like "it will fail and completely change Halo," if all you are basing it on is just your opinion that you don't like it, at least give detailed reasons as to why Halo will fail with classes. There's already a large amount of people that are behind whatever Bungie will do, so I don't see the problem if that's Bungie's decision.

  • 08.05.2009 8:56 AM PDT

Posted by: MS DOS
This is an idea that can not be implemented at the stage of development that Bungie is at. Your right, I don't know anymore about the game than anyone else. But it takes years to develop a video game, and the genre and basics of Reach were probably decided before Halo 3 was even released. Presenting an "idea" that has already been presented 10 times on these forums with every thread turning out the same isn't going to do anything.


Do you read? Or do you just look a wall of text and then make up something that you think it probably says? I've very clearly stated more than once in this thread that I'm NOT expecting Reach to have classes. I've even gone so far as to say that I don't mind if it doesn't but that this is just an idea for any future game to discuss! Regardless, it doesn't matter what my idea is. I can share it without having people tell me "That's not happening in this game." That's not my point! It's like if I said in Iron Man 2, I wonder if Iron Man and Scarlett Johanssen are going to go play space-basketball. Who gives a -blam!-? I already know there's little chance of that happening. It's not like I'm claiming to have some crystal ball that knows things other people don't.

Posted by: MS DOS
Bungie is going to use parts of the older games in Reach. That's the way that it will be no matter what type of game it turns out to be. The games are based on the books. Each game has been similar to its predecessor or the ones that came after it so far. The trend isn't going to end with Reach. Some of the same weapons are going to make an appearance. Its probably going to look very similar to the other Halo games. They are going to use parts of the older Halo games in the making of Reach no matter what. Things will be tweaked and changed, but no more than going from any one of the current Halo shooters to the next one. That's reality.


I agree they'll use older parts. I have no problem with that. Based on the books? Have you read the books? Then you know only one Halo game so far actually has a novel adaptation, and it was written after. Reach may follow the rough outline of a book, but Bungie is not going to directly translate a book into a game. That's silly. The rest of your paragraph we agree on. I fully expect Bungie to use established weapons and elements. I would want them to, regardless of the type of game.

Posted by: MS DOS
That doesn't change that CoD is the most sucessful class based shooter for a reason. Just because you dislike the type of classes that CoD allows doesn't mean that other people don't think that it is a great idea. I hate being pigeonholed into a set class in a class based shooter with next to zero customizable options. I think CoD has a far superior system to most other class based shooters. But that's my opinion, and apparently one that hundreds of thousands of people share with me, otherwise they wouldn't play CoD so much. Even if a class based shooter with set classes was used, you have to retool weapons, Halo wasn't made to be a class based shooter. Everything, I mean everything, would have to be changed. If the next Halo is going to be a class based shooter, that has been addressed by Bungie probably 2 years ago, but that is a massive project.


Again, irrelevant. You're not debating with anybody. Over here we're talking about a certain type of game, and you're talking about another. If I say to you, "Hey man, I wanna play a new game like Battlefront." and you reply with "Well then why don't you go play Call of Duty?" then you don't make any sense. They're not similar games, aside from both games having characters that carry guns and fire with the right trigger. It's completely asinine. You like your type and I like mine. But we're not talking about yours here. The point is to build an idea around mine. Go start another thread if you want Call of Halo.

Posted by: MS DOS
You can play more than one game, but you will always play one game more than the other. I'm not afraid that your the one who has decided that your going to change my "favorite" game. In fact, I think I quite covered that in the first paragraph of my first post.

You basically just said "I'd like to see a Halo-type class based shooter that is unlike CoD4". That really could have been your entire OP and you could have had the same exact outcome with this thread.

As you sad "Bam", because announcing to yourself that you think you provided flawless points over the internet means you won the e-argument, boosting your e-respect. /sarcasm

Oh, and as for your edit addressing Casper thanking him for his support, just because I disagree with your opinion doesn't mean I'm not discussing the game, even if it is only hypothetical.

Finally, Microsoft isn't going to let Bungie make Halo a class based shooter, and they are the final decision on everything Halo.


You're right, I could have just said that in the OP. In fact, it wouldn't have mattered because no matter how detailed I describe my points and intentions, 90% of people are STILL saying things that have no bearing on the actual thread. But that's no fault on my part.

And I didn't say Bam as some ego booster. It just took a while to write. I had to re-write some because I've never been so concerned about making it clear enough for people enough to understand as I am here. Apparently the effort is hardly worth it anyway.

And I did thank Casper, but I could thank you too. You've clearly also thought about your points and replied with things that don't make me put my head on the keyboard, which is refreshing.

And Microsoft is a business that cares about $. If it sells, they'll sell it.

  • 08.05.2009 10:52 AM PDT

Armor Lock isn't overpowered. You just suck at Reach :)

Reach isn't bad, you're just a BK :)

For my gamertag, look up "Ghoulishtie"

Classes = fail

Keep Halo as it is.

  • 08.05.2009 10:59 AM PDT
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I just... like how in Halo, everyone starts on an equal playing field.

I have not taken a side to this debate yet, as I would be interested in Bungie's ideas for a class system, until then, I will remain reserved.

  • 08.05.2009 11:13 AM PDT

One does not simply walk into Halo.

Posted by: IIGhoulishtieII
Classes = fail

Keep Halo as it is.

Please enlighten us how classes fail, aside from your personal opinion. Tell us how it doesn't work in a multiplayer game.

  • 08.05.2009 11:18 AM PDT
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Posted by: SWOOSH 0309
Posted by: MBT HawkChampion
Posted by: SWOOSH 0309
So many idiots, it's unbelievable.

No one is giving a legitimate reason as to how a class system would not work in Reach.

What works doesn't need to be fixed.

Because Halo 3 is balanced, right?

The only balanced multiplayer was Halo CE- Halo 2 had one weapon dominance, hitscan, glitches, etc., Halo 3 has continual conflicts on just its spawn system alone.

It's almost as if people think Halo Reach will become a Ridge Racer game that adapts elements of Final Fantasy. The only possible suggestion to see more variety in Halo was a class system, but obviously having an opinion is frowned upon. Changing a multiplayer does not change the game itself, it will always be Halo because of its story.

These 9 pages have been the poorest excuse for a debate I have ever seen. Even a religious thread seems to have better discussion, and those are useless.

NO ONE IS SAYING THAT HALO REACH WILL HAVE A CLASS BASED MULTIPLAYER, IT'S ONLY AN IDEA. Get a better argument as to why there shouldn't be a class system- not that customizable crap in COD 4& W@W or R6V, but an actual class system that can be balanced.


I find the argument: "It sounds boring and I do not want any classes" excellent. Since after all? Isn't that what it is about? That you should enjoy the game? I would not enjoy a game with classes since I believe that it removes a lot of what is Halo from the game. The opinion to turn classes on and off would be awesome however. Everyone is happy.

And that's your opinion, it's understandable that people don't like the idea, hell I'd be fine if they kept it the same, it doesn't matter to me. But, when you have people that say it won't work and don't elaborate on that claim, that's the problem. What is the point of saying something like "it will fail and completely change Halo," if all you are basing it on is just your opinion that you don't like it, at least give detailed reasons as to why Halo will fail with classes. There's already a large amount of people that are behind whatever Bungie will do, so I don't see the problem if that's Bungie's decision.


Here's a good reason. Custom Games would be destroyed. That is one of Halo's best aspects. It is supposed to be a sandbox game allowing limitless customization and guess what classes would massively take away from that.

  • 08.05.2009 11:27 AM PDT

I would love to see gameplay where not everyone is a Spartan or an Elite. I think it could be interesting to see teams limited to Covenant vs.UNSC. Each team could still have a limited number of Spartans and Elites who are randomly chosen or based on some sort of criteria. The rest could be Marines and varied Covenant forces. This is assuming it is a more large scale game. For those who would complain that Spartans and Elites would be stronger than other players, this would encourage more teamwork to eliminate them rather than being a lone wolf. With this players could also weild whatever weapon they want with the exception of larger weapons like the laser, swords, carrying turrets, etc. limited to Spartans and Elites. Then a player does not have to choose a specific class.

  • 08.05.2009 11:31 AM PDT
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Rawr Im a dino!

What about classes the player can choose but not customize?

  • 08.05.2009 11:31 AM PDT

I'm 23, I have a house, dog, girlfriend, job and I have no interest in any fanboyism so if you're thinking about sending me a childish PM, don't be surprised when I don't call back.

Posted by: PETEYENG
What about classes the player can choose but not customize?


That's what he means, like battlefield. Which is awesome.

  • 08.05.2009 11:36 AM PDT

Armor Lock isn't overpowered. You just suck at Reach :)

Reach isn't bad, you're just a BK :)

For my gamertag, look up "Ghoulishtie"

Posted by: SWOOSH 0309
Posted by: IIGhoulishtieII
Classes = fail

Keep Halo as it is.

Please enlighten us how classes fail, aside from your personal opinion. Tell us how it doesn't work in a multiplayer game.


They are just for Halo. I enjoy halo for it's different gameplay. If I want to play a game with classes, i'll pop in my CoD4. If I want to play a game that I have to FIGHT for certain weapons (which makes it worthwhile when I get them) then i'll play Halo.

If classes were put in Halo, I would seriously not play it as much, probably not at all.

  • 08.05.2009 1:07 PM PDT

One does not simply walk into Halo.

Posted by: IIGhoulishtieII
Posted by: SWOOSH 0309
Posted by: IIGhoulishtieII
Classes = fail

Keep Halo as it is.

Please enlighten us how classes fail, aside from your personal opinion. Tell us how it doesn't work in a multiplayer game.


They are just for Halo. If I want to play a game with classes, i'll pop in my CoD4. If I want to play a game that I have to FIGHT for certain weapons (which makes it worthwhile when I get them) then i'll play Halo.

If classes were put in Halo, I would seriously not play it as much, probably not at all.

Stop using your personal opinion as an excuse to say that it won't work. You don't want Halo to have classes, yet you're not really explaining why classes would be uncoordinated or would not fit in Halo's multiplayer.

For the last time, Call of Duty 4 is not a real class game. Call of Duty 2&3 are class games, just like battlefront, battlefield, and team fortress.

I enjoy halo for it's different gameplay.

Sure, because Halo is nothing like Quake or Doom or Unreal Tournament, right?

  • 08.05.2009 2:40 PM PDT

Armor Lock isn't overpowered. You just suck at Reach :)

Reach isn't bad, you're just a BK :)

For my gamertag, look up "Ghoulishtie"

Posted by: SWOOSH 0309
Stop using your personal opinion as an excuse to say that it won't work.


Nope. I try to speak for the majority of the community, with my own opinion as well.

  • 08.05.2009 4:48 PM PDT

Posted by: Lunatic__Brandon
Here's a good reason. Custom Games would be destroyed. That is one of Halo's best aspects. It is supposed to be a sandbox game allowing limitless customization and guess what classes would massively take away from that.


I see your point but I don't think custom games would be in any real trouble. You could still set player traits and maybe in Forge customize the player class to conform to the rules you want. Considering this idea is for a future game, possibly on a next-gen console, maybe there would be an entire map editor for people to use, which would work if some people required a smaller map. I don't think custom games would be destroyed, and I also don't think they would necessarily change too drastically, if we think outside the box.

[Edited on 08.06.2009 10:33 AM PDT]

  • 08.06.2009 10:26 AM PDT

Reach MMO. Here's to hoping.

And the people that believe "the hardcore playlists would be more popular if the rules were strictly MLG" can come off it, now. If you're not willing to support something close to your own setup, there's no reason for us to believe that cloning our own lists and stripping the variety down will attract more people. -- Shishka, Bungie.net

"That just isn't Halo"

I just love that line. It never gets old, oh wait.

Halo is bigger than just the FPS shooter we have played for 8 years. Any idea is better than doing the same thing again.

  • 08.06.2009 10:47 AM PDT

I am the creator of this thread, and I support CoD style classes. Why?

The answer is simple. I like giving people options. But I do not want Bungie to give x amount of default classes. If they did that, then I would rather have them just leave Halo the way it has been for the past 9 years.

But for you fanboys that don't want classes, listen to this:

CLASSES WILL NOT WORK IN CURRENT HALO GAMEPLAY. That is because the current Halo gameplay is unbalanced.

But classes are possible and this is why:

First off is gun balancing. We can't have weapons that balance each other out, we need weapons that are self-balancing.

This might be a strange concept, so let me explain: Self balancing weapons are weapons that have an equal amount of pros and cons. Therefore, there is no "best weapon" in the game. Why? Because every weapon can seem like the best weapon in the game if you are good with it.

Some simple ways to balance power weapons:
BR-Single shot
Rocket launcher - Rocket veers off course after a certain flight time
Sniper- Increase spread severely when shooting from the hip

Second is map layout. Current map layout isn't that great. But just for the sake of example, I will use sniping positions.

Sniping positions need to balanced so a sniper can't just camp there and kill everyone. So this is how you would balance one type of position out:

This position has a lot of cover, and a pretty large view. However, there is only one way out. That also happens to be the only way in. This way in cannot be covered by the sniper very well. So an opponent with a SMG can come in and kill the sniper.

The other type of position has a large viewing area, a lot of ways in and out, but very little cover.

  • 08.06.2009 11:01 AM PDT

http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/311901/Group/GroupHome.aspx

i dont like the idea. i like that the first 30 seconds of a game determines the outcome, not the stratagy of class mixing, because only 50% of ppl on mp have mics and only 50% of them use them

  • 08.06.2009 11:04 AM PDT

Why should the first 30 seconds of a game determine its outcome? By that argument, the next 11 and a half minutes are totally pointless.

And class mixing isn't a strategy, it is just allowing you to use your favorite weapon. What is so wrong with that?

Posted by: BallHard27
i dont like the idea. i like that the first 30 seconds of a game determines the outcome, not the stratagy of class mixing, because only 50% of ppl on mp have mics and only 50% of them use them

  • 08.06.2009 11:08 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Stop telling people to "NO PERSONAL OPINIONS, I WANT FACTS WHY IT WOULDN'T WORK!"
The entire point of forums is for people to state their opinions, and when the majority are against you, you are just getting defensive.

Classes work for some games yes, and EVERY game has balance issues. If Halo used a class system similar to CoD 4/5/6, Then it would be plagued with the same problems. People whoring the same weapons, and it would ruin the entire Feel that Halo has had for 9 years.
If It went with Team Fortress type classes, many people wouldn't play it, because it's more complicated than normal. I know that sounds dumb, but Halo is like the "FPS for dummies" of the gaming world. It's simple, and that's why many people like it. Change that, and you lose fans.

As a Halo fan, (Been one for nearly 7 years) I wouldn't pick up a class based Halo game, because it isn't what I want to play. I want a game, where my team needs to communicate to get to the power weapons, and have map control. I want a game where everyone starts off equal, same weapon, same health, same everything. It's a fair ground.

CoD rewards players who play the game for 9000 hours strait better weapons, and it makes it unfair for the new players, because they get crappy weapons, and it's hard to defend yourself. I don't want to see halo turn into that.

TL;DR: If Halo gets a class based multiplayer, me and many other gamers won't pick it up, Bungie will lose profit, and microsoft won't let that happen.

  • 08.06.2009 11:15 AM PDT
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Posted by: privet caboose
TL;DR: If Halo gets a class based multiplayer, me and many other gamers won't pick it up, Bungie will lose profit, and microsoft won't let that happen.
Millions of people will buy the game just because of the name "Halo". They won't lose any money at all.

  • 08.06.2009 11:17 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: AK 47625714
Posted by: privet caboose
TL;DR: If Halo gets a class based multiplayer, me and many other gamers won't pick it up, Bungie will lose profit, and microsoft won't let that happen.
Millions of people will buy the game just because of the name "Halo". They won't lose any money at all.


You think to negatively about Bungie's fans. Sure, the majority of them are idiots, but a good deal of them aren't, and I know there is people like me who won't buy a class based Halo, because there's plenty of other games like that on the market already. Halo is one of the popular FPSs, where you have to fight for your weapons.

Besides, The MLG community would Rage at classes.

  • 08.06.2009 11:21 AM PDT