Halo: Reach Forum
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  • Subject: For People Who Don't Want Classes
Subject: For People Who Don't Want Classes
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~in the end the beginning will make more sense

Posted by: Brent G
EDIT: ATTENTION ALL POSTERS. PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE POST BEFORE REPLYING. IT IS ALSO RECOMMENDED YOU READ THE ENTIRE THREAD IF YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO SO.


Okay first of all, I'll start by saying that I DO want classes in Reach. I would love that. Actually I would prefer not to be able to play as Spartans and be able to play as the true grunts, the Marines. Look at Battlefield 1943 that just came out for XBL. That game is great! It's terribly much fun and works perfectly for classes. There isn't a ton of them and they all balance out perfectly.

And for everyone who's gonna come in here and whine about "But this is Halo, not COD or Battlefield, waaaaaaaah, Halo is about X or Y and should never be changed!! :( :( :( :( :(", This is not the Halo trilogy. That is over. Go play Halo 3. It's the culmination of all the stuff you want to play. You've played it for two years now and you clearly don't want anything new. So play that game. Or ask Bungie to remake it with better graphics because that's clearly the only change that won't make you cry. Halo can branch out. Halo SHOULD branch out. It's how to keep the franchise alive and fresh. Reach is not a sequel to Halo 3. It's a spinoff. Let it incorporate new systems and genres.

Posted by: Brent G
Okay I need to restart some of this. Some people just don't get it. I don't know, maybe they can't read or something. That's probably it.

I'm looking forward to Reach. If it's just like Halo 3, I'll still buy it. I'll take it home and pour hours and hours into it. Even if it's almost exactly the same. But ideally I'd like something different. Now some of you are acting like I'm holding a gun to Jason Jones' head and telling him that it has to be my way or else. I'm not saying that. I'm not saying Reach has to have classes. I'm not even necessarily saying Reach SHOULD have classes. I'm saying that it COULD. There's no reason it couldn't. It wouldn't ruin anything.

Now one of the problems here is that reading comprehension seems to be at an all time low in this forum. Maybe it's the American education system that's failed us. I wouldn't be surprised. I've said time and time again NOT to compare these ideas of "classes" to CoD. I'll say it again just to increase my chances of that actually being read. *ahem*

DO NOT USE THE CALL OF DUTY GAMES AS AN EXAMPLE OF CLASSES.

DO NOT USE THE CALL OF DUTY GAMES AS AN EXAMPLE OF CLASSES.

One more time.

DO NOT USE THE CALL OF DUTY GAMES AS AN EXAMPLE OF CLASSES.

Get it? Probably not. I won't be surprised. Team Fortress has classes. Battlefield has classes. Star Wars Battlefront has classes. No class is better than another class. Each class has advantages. People don't spam a single class. Some classes have more players than others, sure, but you must have serious problems if you honestly believe that everything would be spread out exactly evenly. These classes are not customizable. You have a set loadout, and those are the weapons you have until you die and possibly decide to change your class. BF1943 even lets you switch weapons with a dead person. No class is better than another. They all specialize well in different and overlapping areas.

And some people say "Bungie will not go along with the trend of other games and they will be completely original." Well excuse me for forgetting my videogame history where Bungie invented the FPS.

Oh wait, they didn't. But their FPS was UNIQUE. It was better than other FPSs, and it set the trend for suture shooter games. Just like if they made a shooter that had classes, like Battlefront or Team Fortress style classes, NOT Call of Duty classes, then I'm sure, considering the high quality of developer that they are, that they would make it as UNIQUE as possible and try to make it BETTER than other shooters with a similar style. And it doesn't mean ALL Halo games suddenly have to conform to that style and that the entire franchise will abandon it's arena-style shooter fans.

So even if you disagree with me in thinking that Reach being a class-based shooter would be the best choice, denying that such a game set in the Halo universe would be any good is ignorant at best. The Halo universe is a perfect setting for TONS of different games. We've already had shooters and even an RTS. How about a flight sim like Rogue Squadron, with Longswords and Shortswords and even more craft. Or a third-person squad-based or R6V style shooter? I thought ODST would have been perfect for that, but I'm not disappointed with what we're getting. A stealth game? Why not? Bungie has clearly put enough love and detail into their universe to support projects in those veins.

So to everyone who agrees with me and is supporting my points, thank you.

To everyone who disagrees with me and has valid arguments and concerns, thank you.

To everyone who repeats eachother and continually shows that they are incapable of basic reading skills and a coherent debate, please learn to read.

And also,

STOP USING CALL OF DUTY AS AN EXAMPLE OF CLASSES


wouldnt classes make the game unfair??
like you are a sniper thats a power weapon so youre in advantage over almost everyone in the game.
or spawn with the energy sword that would make it unfair.

  • 08.03.2009 1:58 PM PDT

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Posted by: bbbbx
wouldnt classes make the game unfair??
like you are a sniper thats a power weapon so youre in advantage over almost everyone in the game.
or spawn with the energy sword that would make it unfair.
That's why they would need to make the Sniper class weaker (less shields, less health, weaker melee, less motion tracker range, etc.) than the others. The others would all have their own way to take out the sniper class --

Support could use a Spartan laser
Recon could use her active camo
Soldier could pelt him from afar with his BR
Engineer could use a Spartan laser, and maybe his shields would regenerate quicker than the re-balanced Sniper Rifle could shoot, so the Sniper would need to land headshots on him

  • 08.03.2009 2:03 PM PDT

Mythical Group

There is no greater catharsis than arguing on the Flood.

I think that classes would be a very good idea, if they were done right. But personally, I'd feel a little more comfortable with something close to CoD style. This way, natural classes are developed within the team so that they just choose responsibilities, not so their choice is forced upon them.

  • 08.03.2009 2:10 PM PDT

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Posted by: Phoenix9508
I think that classes would be a very good idea, if they were done right. But personally, I'd feel a little more comfortable with something close to CoD style. This way, natural classes are developed within the team so that they just choose responsibilities, not so their choice is forced upon them.
What do you mean?

  • 08.03.2009 2:15 PM PDT
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M!
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Posted by: just another fan
Yeah, because we all know that weird guys on youtube always speak the truth.

Posted by: Hot Sauce 147
Posting on bungie.net should require that the user has had to have read a chapter book all the way through.

No it will end up like CoD ;)

But really NO!

  • 08.03.2009 2:15 PM PDT

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Posted by: Tonoottu
Let Bungie just make their game, and the majority of fans dont want it to be class-based. And this game was born for the fans
We don't know if the majority don't want classes...

The banner suggests the game will be class-based anyway, the Spartans all look so different in terms of build and they are all outfitted with the classical class weapons (Heavy, Scout, Assault, Close range, Long range) which match their physiques.

[Edited on 08.03.2009 2:36 PM PDT]

  • 08.03.2009 2:36 PM PDT

Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Posted by: bbbbx
wouldnt classes make the game unfair??
like you are a sniper thats a power weapon so youre in advantage over almost everyone in the game.
or spawn with the energy sword that would make it unfair.
That's why they would need to make the Sniper class weaker (less shields, less health, weaker melee, less motion tracker range, etc.) than the others. The others would all have their own way to take out the sniper class --

Support could use a Spartan laser
Recon could use her active camo
Soldier could pelt him from afar with his BR
Engineer could use a Spartan laser, and maybe his shields would regenerate quicker than the re-balanced Sniper Rifle could shoot, so the Sniper would need to land headshots on him


thus would be the stupidest game of halo evar.

  • 08.03.2009 4:35 PM PDT

There's No Problem That Can't Be Solved With An Abundance Of Weed and A Jetpack.

What the hell? You people are trying to turn Halo into Battlefield. If you want that, go make it. Bungie is not making a class-based game. It just doesn't make any sense. Why would they make 4 Halo games with all the same formula, but then change the ENTIRE formula for the LAST game in the series? That would be a slap to the face of all Hardcore Halo fans. That's not how you end a major gaming franchise.

  • 08.03.2009 4:42 PM PDT

There's No Problem That Can't Be Solved With An Abundance Of Weed and A Jetpack.

Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Posted by: Tonoottu
Let Bungie just make their game, and the majority of fans dont want it to be class-based. And this game was born for the fans
We don't know if the majority don't want classes...

The banner suggests the game will be class-based anyway, the Spartans all look so different in terms of build and they are all outfitted with the classical class weapons (Heavy, Scout, Assault, Close range, Long range) which match their physiques.


Dude, just because there are 5 people with different weapons in the banner, doesn't mean that we are gonna get to play as everyone of them. That's you and other people just trying to find clues to what the game will be like. The most logical conclusion is you will play as 259, the guy you hear in the trailer.

  • 08.03.2009 4:46 PM PDT

And though you fight to stay alive
Your body starts to shiver
For no mere mortal can resist
The evil of the thriller

I'm fine without classes. I feel it might make killing vehicles too easy if they had an anti-armor class that spawns with a laser and rockets. the good part about how it is right now is how they can be very powerful, yet can still be stopped with certain weapons as well as a well aimed plasma nade. Nerfing the laser for the class system wouldn't be right either, because then it wouldn't feel like the bad-ass weapon it's supposed to be. And besides, I find it more fun and interesting that you have to reach the good weapons that you want instead of spawning with them. The sword wouldn't be as fun if anyone could simply spawn with one.

  • 08.03.2009 4:47 PM PDT
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For people who do want classes. You have no logical reasons why Halo needs to be class based, you just want it to be class based.

  • 08.03.2009 4:58 PM PDT

Okay, well why keep it the same? Because the system isn't broken? Because we don't want a new Halo game, we just want a new version of the ones we have? Because we want to take the first step into sending the franchise into stagnation?

I already said Reach doesn't have to be class-based. But it could at least be different.

  • 08.03.2009 5:07 PM PDT

Thank you for telling people to stop using Call of Duty as an example of classes. The classes in Call of Duty are more of a lazy button option for people who don't want to go through the whole build your own bear option, and even then it's more about picking guns, and different perks instead of true classes.

  • 08.03.2009 5:25 PM PDT
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Posted by: Brent G
Okay, well why keep it the same? Because the system isn't broken? Because we don't want a new Halo game, we just want a new version of the ones we have? Because we want to take the first step into sending the franchise into stagnation?

I already said Reach doesn't have to be class-based. But it could at least be different.


Bungie could easily add new things to the Halo gaming experience without turning it into something else we already have to many of. Yes I know Halo used the same system that all games used when it came out. The thing is why MASSIVELY change Halo? It doesn't need to conform with where other FPS are going. They can do something new and inventive without using classes.

  • 08.03.2009 5:27 PM PDT
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Posted by: Lunatic__Brandon
For people who do want classes. You have no logical reasons why Halo needs to be class based, you just want it to be class based.
I could say the same thing about people who don't want classes.

Posted by: ThunderCheeze
What the hell? You people are trying to turn Halo into Battlefield. If you want that, go make it. Bungie is not making a class-based game. It just doesn't make any sense. Why would they make 4 Halo games with all the same formula, but then change the ENTIRE formula for the LAST game in the series? That would be a slap to the face of all Hardcore Halo fans. That's not how you end a major gaming franchise.
It's not the last game in the franchise.

  • 08.03.2009 5:29 PM PDT

There's No Problem That Can't Be Solved With An Abundance Of Weed and A Jetpack.

Yes, it is. Bungie confirmed Reach is gonna be the last Halo game made by them. Any Halo game not made by Bungie isn't going to be really Halo anyways.

  • 08.03.2009 5:33 PM PDT
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Posted by: AK 47625714
Posted by: Lunatic__Brandon
For people who do want classes. You have no logical reasons why Halo needs to be class based, you just want it to be class based.
I could say the same thing about people who don't want classes.


And I could say Halo is already made without them. What reason is there for the change?

  • 08.03.2009 5:39 PM PDT

There's No Problem That Can't Be Solved With An Abundance Of Weed and A Jetpack.

Look people, if you don't like Halo, don't play Halo. You people are trying to get them to change the very base of Halo gameplay. How can you tell an engaging story with classes that are interchangable throughout gameplay. It doesn't make any sense. Not to mention they would have to change every weapon in the game to make it balanced.

  • 08.03.2009 5:43 PM PDT
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Posted by: ThunderCheeze
Look people, if you don't like Halo, don't play Halo. You people are trying to get them to change the very base of Halo gameplay. How can you tell an engaging story with classes that are interchangable throughout gameplay. It doesn't make any sense. Not to mention they would have to change every weapon in the game to make it balanced.
How is suggesting the implementation of classes "not liking Halo"?

  • 08.03.2009 5:46 PM PDT

Posted by: Lunatic__Brandon
Posted by: Brent G
Okay, well why keep it the same? Because the system isn't broken? Because we don't want a new Halo game, we just want a new version of the ones we have? Because we want to take the first step into sending the franchise into stagnation?

I already said Reach doesn't have to be class-based. But it could at least be different.


Bungie could easily add new things to the Halo gaming experience without turning it into something else we already have to many of. Yes I know Halo used the same system that all games used when it came out. The thing is why MASSIVELY change Halo? It doesn't need to conform with where other FPS are going. They can do something new and inventive without using classes.


You're right, Bungie could add new things without flipping the game on it's head! I already agreed with you. Why massively change it? Because story-wise it makes sense, as well as being a welcome (for many) gameplay change that still retains the Halo feel and addictiveness while throwing in new styles of play that bring in new players. "Hardcore fans will hate it and leave Halo!" some will exclaim. That's hardly true, first of all, and even for the few that are so narrowminded and stubborn, no one ever said that they were only allowed to ever play one game. I play Halo, BF1943, sometimes Gears, CoD once in a while, Far Cry, and numerous others. So if they are so contempuous toward other games, then they can play Halo 3 on the grounds that the person I just described wouldn't want to play a new game any way. They'd be too busy -blam!-ing about how it's not exactly the same as the old one but with new graphics and new maps.

So what am I trying to say here? I'm saying that a Battlefield-style class-based game is ONE solution to the problem. If there are others, great! I'm happy to have any kind of Halo game. Even just an upgraded Halo 3. But that's not what this thread is about. It's about the idea and mechanics behind making a class-based game work. Every subsequent Halo game announcement has always had people dreaming of bigger and bigger Halo games with large-scale combat galore. Well with the MLG punks running the show they only want it to get smaller and smaller, until now it's a game where there are only like 5 weapons! But for the fans who always wanted to drop off their team in a pelican or have a warthog and scorpion convoy engaging an enemy base, class based gameplay is ONE way to make that happen.

So fine! Don't use classes. It doesn't really matter that much to me. But do SOMETHING to make the game fresh again. Not the kind of game that can be completely neutered for people who want to feel like them playing videogames has any bearing on real life skills.

And conforming? Really? There are ten times (at least) as many games of weapon control shooters as class-based ones.

  • 08.03.2009 5:48 PM PDT
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Look classes would be a horrible thing for a Halo game. Bungie either needs to find something no one has done and use that or keep it the same.

There are far too many class based games being released at the present time.

[Edited on 08.03.2009 5:55 PM PDT]

  • 08.03.2009 5:53 PM PDT
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Posted by: Lunatic__Brandon
Look classes would be a horrible thing for a Halo game. Bungie either needs to find something no one has done and use that or keep it the same.
What evidence do you have to back that up? Don't say Call of Duty because that's not a true class based game.

Look at Team Fortress 2, that's an example of a good class based game.

  • 08.03.2009 5:57 PM PDT

There's No Problem That Can't Be Solved With An Abundance Of Weed and A Jetpack.

Posted by: AK 47625714
Posted by: ThunderCheeze
Look people, if you don't like Halo, don't play Halo. You people are trying to get them to change the very base of Halo gameplay. How can you tell an engaging story with classes that are interchangable throughout gameplay. It doesn't make any sense. Not to mention they would have to change every weapon in the game to make it balanced.
How is suggesting the implementation of classes "not liking Halo"?


Because wanting to change the basic fundamentals of a game usually mean you don't like it, therefore feel the need to change it.

  • 08.03.2009 5:58 PM PDT

There's No Problem That Can't Be Solved With An Abundance Of Weed and A Jetpack.

Halo is a game based around it's STORY. It's near impossible to make a good story in a class based game like TF2.

  • 08.03.2009 6:00 PM PDT