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  • Subject: For People Who Don't Want Classes
Subject: For People Who Don't Want Classes
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Posted by: AK 47625714
Posted by: Lunatic__Brandon
Look classes would be a horrible thing for a Halo game. Bungie either needs to find something no one has done and use that or keep it the same.
What evidence do you have to back that up? Don't say Call of Duty because that's not a true class based game.

Look at Team Fortress 2, that's an example of a good class based game.


A class based Halo game would be horrible because too many are being released or worked on now. It is far too overused and it would take away from the Halo experience. Either do something inventive to shooters in general or give us Halo 3.5.

  • 08.03.2009 6:00 PM PDT
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In my opinion, keep it a first person. (if it really is)
Halo IS first person shooters, I play call of duty for call of duty. And battlefield for battlefield.
Its like, if mega man decided to go into racing games rather then side scrolling. Its iconic for what it is, and its fans expect it too stay the same. I just can't see halo using classes.

  • 08.03.2009 6:00 PM PDT
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Posted by: ThunderCheeze
Posted by: AK 47625714
Posted by: ThunderCheeze
Look people, if you don't like Halo, don't play Halo. You people are trying to get them to change the very base of Halo gameplay. How can you tell an engaging story with classes that are interchangable throughout gameplay. It doesn't make any sense. Not to mention they would have to change every weapon in the game to make it balanced.
How is suggesting the implementation of classes "not liking Halo"?


Because wanting to change the basic fundamentals of a game usually mean you don't like it, therefore feel the need to change it.
Not true at all. And Halo's foundation has not remained the same over the years, just look at the changes from Halo 1 to Halo 2. The only game I consider a "true" Halo game is Halo 1.

  • 08.03.2009 6:02 PM PDT

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Posted by: AK 47625714
Posted by: ThunderCheeze
Posted by: AK 47625714
Posted by: ThunderCheeze
Look people, if you don't like Halo, don't play Halo. You people are trying to get them to change the very base of Halo gameplay. How can you tell an engaging story with classes that are interchangable throughout gameplay. It doesn't make any sense. Not to mention they would have to change every weapon in the game to make it balanced.
How is suggesting the implementation of classes "not liking Halo"?


Because wanting to change the basic fundamentals of a game usually mean you don't like it, therefore feel the need to change it.
Not true at all. And Halo's foundation has not remained the same over the years, just look at the changes from Halo 1 to Halo 2. The only game I consider a "true" Halo game is Halo 1.


They might have changed some things, but they did not change the base fundamentals of Halo. Putting in classes would change it.

  • 08.03.2009 6:12 PM PDT

Posted by: AK 47625714
Posted by: ThunderCheeze
Posted by: AK 47625714
Posted by: ThunderCheeze
Look people, if you don't like Halo, don't play Halo. You people are trying to get them to change the very base of Halo gameplay. How can you tell an engaging story with classes that are interchangable throughout gameplay. It doesn't make any sense. Not to mention they would have to change every weapon in the game to make it balanced.
How is suggesting the implementation of classes "not liking Halo"?


Because wanting to change the basic fundamentals of a game usually mean you don't like it, therefore feel the need to change it.
Not true at all. And Halo's foundation has not remained the same over the years, just look at the changes from Halo 1 to Halo 2. The only game I consider a "true" Halo game is Halo 1.


No, in principle they're all the same, they're first person shooters, ABOUT the MC, use vehicles, highjack vehicle, so on. All 3 are the same but with upgrades.


Wanting to change something shows you're un-satisfied with the it is now, that clearly shows you dont like how it is now. I think they'll tell the story Halo 2/ODST kinda way.

  • 08.03.2009 6:15 PM PDT
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Posted by: checkertail
Wanting to change something shows you're un-satisfied with the it is now, that clearly shows you dont like how it is now. I think they'll tell the story Halo 2/ODST kinda way.
Or maybe people are just exploring the possibility of a class-based Halo.

  • 08.03.2009 6:22 PM PDT

Posted by: AK 47625714
Posted by: checkertail
Wanting to change something shows you're un-satisfied with the it is now, that clearly shows you dont like how it is now. I think they'll tell the story Halo 2/ODST kinda way.
Or maybe people are just exploring the possibility of a class-based Halo.


If you're gonna have a class system, atleast only have it in multiplayer. I cant immagine the horror that would be trying to tell a intricate story when at any point, you could turn from the one class to another.

  • 08.03.2009 6:26 PM PDT

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Posted by: ThunderCheeze
Halo is a game based around it's STORY. It's near impossible to make a good story in a class based game like TF2.
It would not be impossible to make a good story. Remember the Spartans we know in the novels? They are all classes. Sam was a Heavy, Kelly a Scout, John Assault, Will a CQB, and Linda a Sniper. What if the Spartans in Halo: REACH's campaign have similar traits to the ones we know in the novels? The banner would definitely suggest that. And that means classes.

  • 08.03.2009 7:46 PM PDT

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Posted by: ThunderCheeze
Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Posted by: Tonoottu
Let Bungie just make their game, and the majority of fans dont want it to be class-based. And this game was born for the fans
We don't know if the majority don't want classes...

The banner suggests the game will be class-based anyway, the Spartans all look so different in terms of build and they are all outfitted with the classical class weapons (Heavy, Scout, Assault, Close range, Long range) which match their physiques.


Dude, just because there are 5 people with different weapons in the banner, doesn't mean that we are gonna get to play as everyone of them. That's you and other people just trying to find clues to what the game will be like. The most logical conclusion is you will play as 259, the guy you hear in the trailer.
I never said you would play as all of them (except maybe in MP), but they could be a Spartan squad from Team Beta in campaign. You play as 259 and could possibly hot-swap between them with the Dpad to use each of their strengths/weaknesses, and it would open up the possibility of 5 player coop.

  • 08.03.2009 7:48 PM PDT
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One thing I don't understand is that you guys want something new but you are asking for a class based Halo. How does that make sense? Sure classes would be new to Halo but currently classes are way overused. It would ultimately feel like a reskinned version of one of the many currently class based games. I'd rather see Halo 3.5 than that. If Bungie is going to change the gameplay then they need to do something unique and inventive, not reskinning an already existing series to make it look like Halo.

  • 08.03.2009 7:50 PM PDT

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Posted by: Lunatic__Brandon
One thing I don't understand is that you guys want something new but you are asking for a class based Halo. How does that make sense? Sure classes would be new to Halo but currently classes are way overused. It would ultimately feel like a reskinned version of one of the many currently class based games. I'd rather see Halo 3.5 than that. If Bungie is going to change the gameplay then they need to do something unique and inventive, not reskinning an already existing series to make it look like Halo.
Well... In that case, Halo has NEVER been new or unique.

Because Classes just got popular, but when Halo 1 and 2 were out (and way before), most FPS games didn't use a class system, they used the same system which Halo copied. Nobodyy complained about Halo being un-unique or un-new back then, why would it be any different now?

Were Halo 1 and 2 re-skinned Quake? No. So Halo Reach as a class based game would not be a re-skinned Battlefield, Battlefront, Team Fortress, etc. It would be Halo.

[Edited on 08.03.2009 7:53 PM PDT]

  • 08.03.2009 7:52 PM PDT

Here’s what Luke had to say about the differences in treatment between the Spartans and Elites in Reach:

“Instead of piece-by-piece customization like the Spartans, Elite customization is a full model swap with models selected from the various Elite classes appearing throughout the Campaign. There are all kinds of reasons for this, not the least of which is our continued emphasis on the Spartan as your identity in Reach.”

Classes + Halo = not for me.

That was the refreshing thing about Halo 1, was the weapon control.

Everyone started off with the same weapon, so map control became important.

If it's class based, map control takes a backseat since you spawn with all of your equipment.

There are also too many weapons to balance for classes.

How would covenant weapons even be used at all, with this kind of system?

  • 08.03.2009 7:53 PM PDT

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Posted by: Uncle Kulikov
How would covenant weapons even be used at all, with this kind of system?
Elites spawn with covenant weapons, Spartans spawn with human weapons. They would behave more like Halo 1, but balanced further so that Plasma Rifle = Assault Rifle, Battle Rifle = Carbine, etc.

[Edited on 08.03.2009 7:54 PM PDT]

  • 08.03.2009 7:54 PM PDT

Posted by: urk
Eat raw meat.
Punch a bear in the face.


If you don't know who I am, the feeling is mutual.

Is Halo built for a class-based multiplayer? Right now we got Forge and Custom Games. Halo is so popular because of these. People are having fun because of games like Zombies, Grifball, Rocket Race, and so many others that Bungie could've never imagined. Some people have more fun with racing Mongooses than an intense BR match. If you add classes to custom games and Forge, that changes. Suddenly the person who wants to make a map featuring humans defending a castle or base is ruined because it's hard to balance when one team spawns with Rocket Launchers and obliterates the other team. The mindless fun you once had is gone.

For example, I used to play Far Cry at a friend's house. We played this map where a team of three or more would be in the air. Once you chose from a horde of weapons (LMGs, rifles, SMGs, pistols...) and gathered your wits, you jumped down below where the Predator awaited. Then you had to either kill the Predator or destroy the generator to win, all while the Predator (with super speed and strength, but weaker guns) would try to kill you. In Far Cry 2? There was a map editor, but the class system destroyed the creativity of that. That same game would have one team in the sky with snipers and elimate the other team (no Predator mode utterly killed that game).

I respect other's opinions on this, but I personly don't like the idea of classes for this reason. You can't change the flow of a game without issues. Battlefield will always feel similar, as the Halo games always did. Changing it now would ruin the wonderful innovations of Forge and creatable gametypes that Bungie has.

Also: Machinima crews and screenshot artists would suffer. Less freedom in making videos and screenshots.

[Edited on 08.03.2009 8:35 PM PDT]

  • 08.03.2009 8:33 PM PDT
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^^^
Agreed 110%

[Edited on 08.03.2009 9:00 PM PDT]

  • 08.03.2009 8:42 PM PDT
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Posted by: RabidNutCase45
Is Halo built for a class-based multiplayer? Right now we got Forge and Custom Games. Halo is so popular because of these. People are having fun because of games like Zombies, Grifball, Rocket Race, and so many others that Bungie could've never imagined. Some people have more fun with racing Mongooses than an intense BR match. If you add classes to custom games and Forge, that changes. Suddenly the person who wants to make a map featuring humans defending a castle or base is ruined because it's hard to balance when one team spawns with Rocket Launchers and obliterates the other team. The mindless fun you once had is gone.

For example, I used to play Far Cry at a friend's house. We played this map where a team of three or more would be in the air. Once you chose from a horde of weapons (LMGs, rifles, SMGs, pistols...) and gathered your wits, you jumped down below where the Predator awaited. Then you had to either kill the Predator or destroy the generator to win, all while the Predator (with super speed and strength, but weaker guns) would try to kill you. In Far Cry 2? There was a map editor, but the class system destroyed the creativity of that. That same game would have one team in the sky with snipers and elimate the other team (no Predator mode utterly killed that game).

I respect other's opinions on this, but I personly don't like the idea of classes for this reason. You can't change the flow of a game without issues. Battlefield will always feel similar, as the Halo games always did. Changing it now would ruin the wonderful innovations of Forge and creatable gametypes that Bungie has.

Also: Machinima crews and screenshot artists would suffer. Less freedom in making videos and screenshots.
Then maybe a toggle option should be available like you can choose what type of classes can be used in a specific map?That can work...like lets say that theres a sniper based map..you can make it so that only sniper classes can be used...

  • 08.03.2009 8:59 PM PDT

Posted by: urk
Eat raw meat.
Punch a bear in the face.


If you don't know who I am, the feeling is mutual.

Thanks. I just can't imagine Halo without dropping a tank on my friend's head...

@ xX Em0 NiNjA Xx: It wouldn't be the same. It's a lot easier to have the weapons on the map if you want one team to have dual-wieldable weapons, shotguns, and pistols and the other swords and hammers. If you want to give a team options, or you want them to find weapons as they go, it's awkward having them spawn with eveything they need. I prefer the current system.

I wouldn't mind if Bungie added crazy new things (Forge in Firefight? Blasphemy!) but I like if they could keep the classic Halo gameplay.

[Edited on 08.03.2009 9:05 PM PDT]

  • 08.03.2009 8:59 PM PDT
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My idea can work in matchmaking too and can maybe add weapon focused playlists [snipers]
@RabidNutCase5:Then maybe you should make them spawn with assault rifles?Then have them find the snipers?idk im just want classes because it would just be plain awesome...

[Edited on 08.03.2009 9:09 PM PDT]

  • 08.03.2009 9:02 PM PDT

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Posted by: RabidNutCase45
.
The simple solution would be to simply put more options in custom games. You could, for example, limit everyone to only spawn as a certain class, and you could change which weapons they spawn, change their speed, shields, etc. just like in Halo 3.

  • 08.03.2009 9:12 PM PDT

Posted by: urk
Eat raw meat.
Punch a bear in the face.


If you don't know who I am, the feeling is mutual.

Posted by: xX Em0 NiNjA Xx
My idea can work in matchmaking too and can maybe add weapon focused playlists [snipers]
@RabidNutCase5:Then maybe you should make them spawn with assault rifles?Then have them find the snipers?idk im just want classes because it would just be plain awesome...
The problem I have with classes is the lack of creativity allowed. You can't say "one team can only pick a sniper class, the other picks an assault class" unless the game specifically allows that. In a game like that, the attackers would pick the class they're not supposed to have and there is nothing you can do about it. It's a lot easier to set it on zombies with the humans having one life and holding out against the other team that has weaker weapons and weaker stats. It's even easier to have one team spawn in the base with snipers on the ground.

  • 08.03.2009 9:15 PM PDT

Posted by: urk
Eat raw meat.
Punch a bear in the face.


If you don't know who I am, the feeling is mutual.

Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Posted by: RabidNutCase45
.
The simple solution would be to simply put more options in custom games. You could, for example, limit everyone to only spawn as a certain class, and you could change which weapons they spawn, change their speed, shields, etc. just like in Halo 3.
That makes the class system sound so complex.

The one thing that'd sell me on classes is if you could also place weapons on a map. That'd be wicked awesome.

Edit: Oops, bumped accidently.

[Edited on 08.03.2009 9:18 PM PDT]

  • 08.03.2009 9:18 PM PDT

Well complex can't be a bad thing if the main concern is that classes are so limited.

But listen guys. What I'm really trying to say here is not necessarily that Reach is the right place for it, but that somewhere down the line a class-based Halo could be really cool. Weapon balancing issues would be solved with one thing. No Spartans. Players control the good ol Marines. Because of no Spartan-to-weapon interface, you would use actual gun scopes or iron sights, no sniper crosshair unless you're zoomed in, things like that. More recoil on snipers to keep them fair, considering you don't have 500 pounds of armour to steady your aim. The Covenant could play as a variety of the species instead of just Elites, which would be illogical in a battle. Maybe they're the Covenant special unit. Maybe ODSTs can be the UNSC special unit. There's so many possibilities if we just forget about Spartans for a bit and give the rest of the UNSC their time to shine. Halo 3 ODST is getting us halfway there.

But anyway, those are only rough ideas. You don't have to like them. But the infrastructure is all there to make a really badass game.

  • 08.03.2009 9:41 PM PDT
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Posted by: Brent G
Well complex can't be a bad thing if the main concern is that classes are so limited.

But listen guys. What I'm really trying to say here is not necessarily that Reach is the right place for it, but that somewhere down the line a class-based Halo could be really cool. Weapon balancing issues would be solved with one thing. No Spartans. Players control the good ol Marines. Because of no Spartan-to-weapon interface, you would use actual gun scopes or iron sights, no sniper crosshair unless you're zoomed in, things like that. More recoil on snipers to keep them fair, considering you don't have 500 pounds of armour to steady your aim. The Covenant could play as a variety of the species instead of just Elites, which would be illogical in a battle. Maybe they're the Covenant special unit. Maybe ODSTs can be the UNSC special unit. There's so many possibilities if we just forget about Spartans for a bit and give the rest of the UNSC their time to shine. Halo 3 ODST is getting us halfway there.

But anyway, those are only rough ideas. You don't have to like them. But the infrastructure is all there to make a really badass game.
i think that can work but if there is gonna be elites then there has to be spartans to counter them but everything else i agree with..

  • 08.03.2009 9:45 PM PDT

Well see but Elites are much more common in a battle than Spartans. That's why I figured ODSTs can take the role. Maybe Spartans can be used in some capacity but they're utterly dominant over almost everything else. That would be a huge balancing issue.

  • 08.03.2009 9:49 PM PDT

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Posted by: Brent G
Well see but Elites are much more common in a battle than Spartans. That's why I figured ODSTs can take the role. Maybe Spartans can be used in some capacity but they're utterly dominant over almost everything else. That would be a huge balancing issue.
The ODSTs are no match for Elites, though, so the balancing issues would be even bigger there (especially the size issue). Maybe the Covenant special unit could be SpecOps or Zealot Elites, making them more equal to a Spartan than a common Elite Minor.

[Edited on 08.03.2009 9:52 PM PDT]

  • 08.03.2009 9:52 PM PDT