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This topic has moved here: Subject: For People Who Don't Want Classes
  • Subject: For People Who Don't Want Classes
Subject: For People Who Don't Want Classes
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Good point

  • 08.03.2009 9:53 PM PDT

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Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Posted by: Brent G
Well see but Elites are much more common in a battle than Spartans. That's why I figured ODSTs can take the role. Maybe Spartans can be used in some capacity but they're utterly dominant over almost everything else. That would be a huge balancing issue.
The ODSTs are no match for Elites, though, so the balancing issues would be even bigger there (especially the size issue). Maybe the Covenant special unit could be SpecOps or Zealot Elites, making them more equal to a Spartan than a common Elite Minor.

That works. And then maybe the elite minor does pretty much tie up with an ODST.

  • 08.03.2009 9:54 PM PDT

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Posted by: Phoenix9508
Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Posted by: Brent G
Well see but Elites are much more common in a battle than Spartans. That's why I figured ODSTs can take the role. Maybe Spartans can be used in some capacity but they're utterly dominant over almost everything else. That would be a huge balancing issue.
The ODSTs are no match for Elites, though, so the balancing issues would be even bigger there (especially the size issue). Maybe the Covenant special unit could be SpecOps or Zealot Elites, making them more equal to a Spartan than a common Elite Minor.

That works. And then maybe the elite minor does pretty much tie up with an ODST.
But it would be 2ft taller with energy shields and the physical strength/bullet spongy-ness as a Spartan... just without the experience of a higher ranked Elite or a Spartan. I don't know much about what Brent was suggesting, though, I know he wants Marines, but would they be fighting a Covenant force? Of Grunts? Jackals?

  • 08.03.2009 9:59 PM PDT
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then maybe you should be able to play as anything you want?
Covenant:
Elite=soldier,scout,sniper,engineer,heavy
Grunt=soldier,heavy(On the level,The Covenant,there were grunts with fuel rods)
Jackal=soldier,scout,sniper
Drone=soldier,scout
Hunter=heavy
Brute=same as elites

UNSC
Marine=soldier,engineer
ODST=soldier,sniper,scout
Spartan=soldier,scout,sniper,engineer,heavy

this probarly wont work

  • 08.03.2009 10:22 PM PDT

Posted by: TWOMEY1993
Posted by: Brent G
Alright everyone keeps saying every other shooter on the market is class based. Really? Name three, other than call of duty, WHICH IS NOT THE GAME ANYBODY WANTS THIS TO BE. Most other shooters strive to be just like Halo. Nobody is forcing anybody to buy this game with theis own money and play it until their fingers bleed and they hate it. Those people can go on playing Halo 3, because that's clearly all they really want. Nobody pissed their pants when Halo Wars was announced as an RTS. They didn't have to buy it.

So PLEASE stop talking about COD classes because that is not what anyone wants.


Killzone 2 ,
Team fortress 2 ,
Battlefield,
Far Cry 2
Quake Wars ,


lol i kinda forgot a few

P.S No class based halo sorry

  • 08.04.2009 5:37 AM PDT

I am not saying classes would make Reach bad I am just going to say, I WONT BUY IT.

Enough said.

  • 08.04.2009 5:50 AM PDT

I give up. People don't want change, an that's the problem. Halo needs change. Change is what warrants sequels. People have to stop being stubborn. I now see the side of the community that are ignorant. Most people here ''Don't like classes''. Why? The gameplay would be quite similar to Halo already, but instead of ''loving'' the sniper, but not having it all the time, you DO. Classes puts people in a comfortable place.

Classed based gameplay is very balanced. I hate how people think it gives unfair advantages. Want a rocket launcher? Well you have to sacrifice things such as grenades, rifles, health, etc. Want a sniper? Well you get a magnum secondary. Want an AR? Well you get extra grenades, you can sprint, etc.

  • 08.04.2009 6:07 AM PDT
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Team Fortress is hella fun, if it WAS class-based and was half as fun as TF I'd be happy.

If its not class based, *shrug* whatever.
If it is, *shrug* whatever.
Bungie had the know-how to make one great FPS, I'm sure they probably have enough left over to make another great game; regardless of its play-style.

You've played it for two years now and you clearly don't want anything new. So play that game

If you really love a shooter without classes, you've already got it, its sitting in the loading tray of your 360 calling to you. "Plaaaaaaaaaaay meeeeeeee." If you abhor the idea of class-based halo, don't play it (if it comes out that way). You've got a superb Non-class FPS already, why fix what ain't broke?

[Edited on 08.04.2009 6:32 AM PDT]

  • 08.04.2009 6:25 AM PDT

Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Posted by: Phoenix9508
Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Posted by: Brent G
Well see but Elites are much more common in a battle than Spartans. That's why I figured ODSTs can take the role. Maybe Spartans can be used in some capacity but they're utterly dominant over almost everything else. That would be a huge balancing issue.
The ODSTs are no match for Elites, though, so the balancing issues would be even bigger there (especially the size issue). Maybe the Covenant special unit could be SpecOps or Zealot Elites, making them more equal to a Spartan than a common Elite Minor.

That works. And then maybe the elite minor does pretty much tie up with an ODST.
But it would be 2ft taller with energy shields and the physical strength/bullet spongy-ness as a Spartan... just without the experience of a higher ranked Elite or a Spartan. I don't know much about what Brent was suggesting, though, I know he wants Marines, but would they be fighting a Covenant force? Of Grunts? Jackals?


Yeah, The Covenant force would be mixed. I thought Elites could take the standard soldier role, with Grunts and Jackals filling support roles that we've seen in the games, like Jackals with snipers, Grunts as pilots/engineers or heavy weapons since we've seen them with fuel rod cannons before as well as piloting ghosts, etc. Elites would balance with their marine counterpart either by removing shields, since they'd be only Elite minors anyway it could be argued that the ones in the game wouldn't have any. If that is found unacceptable by some, maybe they could have very weak shields to give them an edge over marines, but their large size makes them a bigger target. Since we've seen in ODST that even they can take down things like Brutes with relative ease, a player controlled marine against one is no longer too much of a stretch. Maybe Brutes could be a heavy damage dealer with extra health as a special unit for the Covenant, while the UNSC have ODSTs that have silenced weapons and are stealthy.

But yeah, still rough ideas. I want to hammer out an outline sometime soon. I just want to avoid Spartans as much as possible. It's the same problem that ruined Star Wars Battlefront 2. If you can just be hero characters (Spartans/Jedi) then that's all anybody wants to do and then the game becomes more about that, as opposed to truly being the standard fighting force doing the dirty work with no special abilities, like in Battlefront 1.

[Edited on 08.04.2009 10:53 AM PDT]

  • 08.04.2009 10:52 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: bunniesz23
I am saying classes would make Reach bad and I am just going to say, I WONT BUY IT if classes are implemented.

Enough said.


Fixed.

  • 08.04.2009 10:58 AM PDT
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There is an idea of a Ygidorp, some kind of abstraction, but there is no real me, only an entity, something illusory, and though I can hide my cold gaze and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping you and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable: I simply am not there.

I would like to have a system somewhat( not as limited ) similar to Halo 2. Meaning you have more than one characters perspective to navigate through the story. Instead of going through the missions solo as a spartan, have a mission as an ODST or some other infantry personel.

I would even like to have the option of going through the campaign as a covenant. Just something different.

  • 08.04.2009 11:01 AM PDT

I think that's a cool idea. Since we'll have a wider cast of characters, Master Chief doesn't need to be at the forefront and it would be cool to explore a lot of different angles.

  • 08.04.2009 8:03 PM PDT

Steam: RageRunner32 | StarCraft II: RageRunner | Lets play Pc sometime :)

<3

It's been awhile since I've had agreed so much with another poster, but Brent G you have gained +1 respect for your post.

Though the basic Halo formula has worked for over 8 years, it's about time the series branch out a bit and explore some of its potential. I believe that in exploring the FPS scene, class based combat is the way to go.

Add in the familiar Halo weapons with a class system and bam, no more complaints about spawns, weapon placement, camping, and uneven/unfair battles since everyone has the same choices of weapons and spawns at the start.

  • 08.04.2009 8:56 PM PDT

Although I agree with your argument on the opinion that the Halo franchise needs innovation, your suggestions are not innovative at all. You are suggesting we take elements from other games, and incorporate them into Reach. What I'd like to see is a fresh brand spankin' new design at FPS gameplay.

  • 08.04.2009 9:05 PM PDT

Posted by: MS DOS
I don't understand why people make posts like these. Whether or not Reach will be a class based shooter was decided a long, long time ago. Bungie isn't going to stop the game in the middle of production because of one of a thousand overdone topics on the forums saying "It can be done!!!!"


I never said they should changed it halfway through production. But you don't know any more about what the game is like than I do, and I threw out an idea of what it could be that I'd like to see.

Posted by: MS DOS
Your right though, Reach could be a well balanced, sucessful class based Halo shooter. It probably won't be, but it could. The problem with doing that is everything in Halo has to be changed. All of Bungie's Halo games have been traditional FPS. You can't just bring maps and weapons over and call it a class based shooter.


Okay, so all of Bungie's Halo games have been traditional FPSs. They have experience making other games. They've made RTS games and even a third person action game. And you're really trying to tell me that it would be harder to not have to start with making all new concept art, character models, art style, weapons and weapon ideas, characters, units and all manner of other things, than to just refine the ones they already have and just change the way the game shoots? You have to build a new car, but you can use all the parts of the old one except put in a new engine? I'm sorry, that just seems completely illogical.

Posted by: MS DOS
Not to mention there would have to be some serious restrictions on the amount of players that can be a certain class in game. Wouldn't it just be oh so fun to have 4 people on each team being the sniper class? Then again, I don't want to be pigeon holed into playing a class that I hate or sucks because everyone is whoring the better classes.


You wouldn't need any restrictions on classes as long as each class is well balanced and useful in different areas. Look at any other class based game and you'll see what I'm saying is true. Which brings me to my next point...

Posted by: MS DOS
You really didn't have any points in your OP aside from saying that one class will not rule over all... You go on to say "Don't use COD as an example"... too bad. It has a class system. You used other games that have classes as a comparison, I'll use CoD if I want, considering its the most popular class based game out for the 360.


I said not to use Call of Duty as an example for a reason, that being that is does not have the type of classes I'm talking about in this idea of a game. Call of Duty has the poorest excuse for classes, but instead lets the player customize their own loadout. That's not a class. Look at Team Fortress 2. Those are classes. I'm not comparing to Call of Duty. It's like if I had an idea for a new platforming game, and I said I wanted it to be like Super Mario Bros., and you'd be telling me that you don't want it because it would be like a Sonic game. No it wouldn't! I specifically didn't compare it to Sonic because that's a completely different game! It just happens to be set in the same vague genre of game. Which is why I say not to compare these ideas to Call of Duty. Because Call of Duty is irrelevant to my points. It's apples and oranges, and people just refuse to understand that.


Posted by: MS DOS
Speaking of CoD, why compete with it directly, when Bungie can continue to use a formula that is working? Putting a class based system into Reach makes players who are fans of class based shooters choose between two huge franchises. Staying with a traditional FPS ensures success, almost no matter what the game turns out to be like.


It doesn't make anybody choose anything. I've stated numerous times already that you CAN play more than one game. If your Halo fanboy internet friends find out you've been playing another popular game and shun you, then you have bigger problems (not specifically you, just people in general). If Halo stays the same? Cool. I'm good with that. But get a grip, people who can't discuss any ideas because they're afraid I'm the head of Bungie who's already decided I'm going to change their favourite game forever.

Bam.

EDIT: Casper, thanks for showing your support, it's good to know there are other people around here who can actually discuss ideas for hypothetical games.

And cgraham, I haven't really laid out all my ideas for such a game. Plus I'm sure Bungie would throw in their trademark ingredient that keeps it fresh and original. I'm just saying those other games are a good place to start. No game is made without influences.

[Edited on 08.04.2009 9:20 PM PDT]

  • 08.04.2009 9:17 PM PDT

No matter how many times I forget about this place, I always get dragged back.

I'm more than okay with that.

Call of Duty is a perfectly legitimate example of a game with classes, as long as you look to the games BEFORE class customization, namely (on the 360) CoD2 and 3.

  • 08.04.2009 9:18 PM PDT

Beware the smiley face! =D

I wouldn't really mind classes and other variations out into other games in Reach, for instance I never really cracked why Bungie didnt put in ironside aim.

Although I would rather have a system, if there was classwa, that is like CoD because of perks and whatnot. Although there would have to be more perks and none of that stupid Recon at 3 kills, useless unless used on headquarters Support (Atillery/Airstrike) at 5 and Completely Overpowered Team Destroyer (Dogs/Helicopter) at 7.

Also, I want to see Halo Reach with NORMAL radar. I think Halo probably has one of the best radar systems in gaming, if not the best. Mercenaries 2 has a good minimap but it is too dark so you mistake a huge tank for a building occupied by one guy with a rifle.

NOTE - Classes should NOT include custom weapons. But you should be able to customise health and, possibly, armour permutation.

[Edited on 08.04.2009 9:23 PM PDT]

  • 08.04.2009 9:20 PM PDT

Posted by: Ninja Walrus
Call of Duty is a perfectly legitimate example of a game with classes, as long as you look to the games BEFORE class customization, namely (on the 360) CoD2 and 3.


I agree with you on that, but I know 99% of the people here are talking about COD4 and 5, since they are Halo's biggest competitors. Looking back to older games is a decent example of classes.

  • 08.04.2009 9:24 PM PDT

Ohai, I'm Loscocco (pronounced Loss-cocoa). I'm a college student (computer science major), 3D animator, and long-time Halo player.

I dont like the idea of classes because the Halo weapons dont balance like that. In Halo, shotguns are obviously more powerful than BRs. the BR takes much longer to kill someone at close range than a shotgun.

In BF 1943 or COD, everything kills in a few shots- this is balanced because you can kill someone with a rifle about as fast as a rocket, but in Halo- If one person has a rifle (BR) and another chose a Rocket launcher, the rockets would win- everyone chooses rockets then.... This would be unbalanced gameplay and clases would not work.

In Halo- Sniper Rifles are incredibly powerful and thats why there are only 2 or less on a map normally. If sniper classes existed, they would be unstoppable and there would be up to 16 snipers...

Classes would also ruin maps. If classes existed, all maps would have to be BTB maps (im fine with that) but you cannot play on small maps. If halo 3 had classes, how would we play assembly? snipers on a map that small? it wouldnt work because its too close quarters...

  • 08.04.2009 9:43 PM PDT
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The death of custom games

  • 08.04.2009 9:46 PM PDT

Beware the smiley face! =D

I cant be bothered to write another long post. I agree with the person above the post above this one.

HOWEVER, I think there should be classes - just without choice of weapon. Classes should be stripped back to things like armour perumtation, perks, and other features that could be added.

  • 08.04.2009 10:01 PM PDT

One does not simply walk into Halo.

So many idiots, it's unbelievable.

No one is giving a legitimate reason as to how a class system would not work in Reach.

What works doesn't need to be fixed.

Because Halo 3 is balanced, right?

The only balanced multiplayer was Halo CE- Halo 2 had one weapon dominance, hitscan, glitches, etc., Halo 3 has continual conflicts on just its spawn system alone.

It's almost as if people think Halo Reach will become a Ridge Racer game that adapts elements of Final Fantasy. The only possible suggestion to see more variety in Halo was a class system, but obviously having an opinion is frowned upon. Changing a multiplayer does not change the game itself, it will always be Halo because of its story.

These 9 pages have been the poorest excuse for a debate I have ever seen. Even a religious thread seems to have better discussion, and those are useless.

NO ONE IS SAYING THAT HALO REACH WILL HAVE A CLASS BASED MULTIPLAYER, IT'S ONLY AN IDEA. Get a better argument as to why there shouldn't be a class system- not that customizable crap in COD 4& W@W or R6V, but an actual class system that can be balanced.

  • 08.05.2009 12:40 AM PDT
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Amusing Troll Is amusing.

  • 08.05.2009 1:04 AM PDT

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This is not the CoD Series. That is over. Go play CoD WaW. It's the culmination of all the stuff you want to play. You've played it for two years now and you clearly don't want anything new. So play that game. Or ask EA to remake it with better graphics because that's clearly the only change that won't make you cry. CoD can branch out. CoD SHOULD branch out. It's how to keep the franchise alive and fresh. Reach is not a sequel to CoD. It's a spinoff. Let it incorporate new systems and genres.

I can turn around what you just said? -.-

  • 08.05.2009 2:52 AM PDT