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This topic has moved here: Poll [702 votes]: Should Bungie add customizable enemies in the forge of Halo: Reach?
  • Poll [702 votes]: Should Bungie add customizable enemies in the forge of Halo: Reach?
Subject: Should Bungie add customizable enemies in the forge of Halo: Reach?
Poll: Should Bungie add customizable enemies in the forge of Halo: Reach?  [closed]
Yes:  87%
(614 Votes)
No:  13%
(88 Votes)
Total Votes: 702

Thread update complete - Please mention any errors I might have missed.

As most of us know, the forge option in Halo 3 revolutionized the way Halo was played. Although Bungie has already stated that it would be impossible to create bots, I believe I have a idea that they could implament in Halo: Reach, that would allow for forgeable in-game enemies.

The question most of you will probably ask, is if Bungie can't make Bots, how could they make in-game enemies.

My solution to that, is that players be given the ability to set everything from when and how they move and shoot, to when and how they die/respawn.

To do this, players would first go to the item selection in forge. They would then chose from a list of forgeable A.I.s. There would three seperate sets of forgeable A.I.s. Base, unique, and vehical. The forge list would look something like this:

Total A.I. Limit: 25
Unique A.I. Limit: 10
Vehical A.I. Limit: 5

Base $5
Grunt
Marine
Combat Flood
Jackel
ODST
Brute
Elite
Brute Chieften
Spartan

Uniqe $10
Drone
Sentinal
Tank Flood
Hunter
Hunter Pair (2)

Vehical $20
Mongoose
Ghost
Chopper
Prowler
Warthog
Banshee
Hornit
Wraith
Scorpion

The Total A.I. Limit is the total number of A.I. you can have on a map. Once that limit is reached, your done. The Unique and Vehical limits only restrict you within those two particular groups of A.I. If you reach either one of those limits, you can only make A.I. from outside the "full" group.

When a base A.I. is selected, the player would then be able to select the traits of the enemy. These traits would be grouped into several catagories: Basic, Weapondry, and Movement/Combat

Basic
Respawn Time: 10,15, 30, 45, 60, 90, 120, 150, 180, never
Health/Rank (By campaign): Easy, Normal, Heroic, Legendary, Invinsable, None
Additional Shields (added on to health): None, 10%, 25%, 50%, 90%, 100%, 150%, 200%, 500%
Shield Recharge: 50%, 90%, 100%, 110%, 150%, 200%
Speed: 25%, 50%, 100%, 200%, 300%
Damage: 50%, 100%, 110%, 150%, 200%, Instant
Range (distance at which AI will shoot): 10m, 25m, 50m, 75m, 100m, 150m, 200m, 250m, infinite

Weapondry
Main Weapon: Any/All weapons availible
Secondary Weapon: Any/All weapons availible
Ammo: Low, Normal, High, Infinite
Granades: None, 1, 2, 3
Accuracy: Poor, Moderate, High, Perfect
Active Camo: None, Poor, Full

Movement/Combat
Waypoint Marker 25/25
After path completion: Stop, Reverse, Go to start
Combat Area 5/5
Stop While in Combat: Yes, No
Team Channel: None (FFA), Attackers, Defenders, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8

When a Unique A.I. is selected, its display would be slightly different. For these A.I., you might be limited to a certain weapon group, or none at all. These A.I. are set into a seperate group for two reasons. One is because they are bigger/different, and also because a Hunter cant weild a pistol. I'm not including a "template" for Unique A.I. traits because each one would likely be a little different.

Vehical A.I.s are different still. As the name suggests, they are vehical A.I. Unlike player-driven vehicals, if boarded, they can only be destoryed. The A.I. drivers in the vehical would differ. Ghosts might be driven by grunts, choppers by brutes, and hornets by marines. Additionally, the display menu would be slightly different:

Basic
Respawn Time: 10,15, 30, 45, 60, 90, 120, 150, 180, never
Shields: None, 10%, 25%, 50%, 90%, 100%, 150%, 200%, 500%
Damage Resistance: 10%, 25%, 50%, 75%, 90%, 100%, 110%, 125%, 150%, 200%, 300%, Invinsable
Shield Recharge: 50%, 90%, 100%, 110%, 150%, 200%
Damage: 50%, 100%, 110%, 150%, 200%, Instant
Range (distance at which AI will shoot): 10m, 25m, 50m, 75m, 100m, 150m, 200m, 250m, infinite

Weapondry
Preference: Gunning, Splattering, Random, Switching
Accuracy: Poor, Moderate, High, Perfect

Movement/Combat
Waypoint Marker 25/25
After path completion: Stop, Reverse, Go to start
Combat Area 5/5
Stop While in Combat: Yes, No
Team Channel: None (FFA), Attackers, Defenders, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8

Now, you are probably wondering what the waypoint marker and comat areas are about. The waypoint markers would look like the A.I. they are representing, and would control where the A.I. would go. It would look slghtly tranparent and wouldn't be a physical object. Also, if the entire thing didn't fit in an area, it wouldnt be placeable. Additionally, if you "close the loop" with the waypoints, the AI will just keep following that waypoint loop.

Combat areas are what their name tells them to be. If an enemy player enters the combat area, the A.I. would attack if the player is both within range, and is the A.I.'s line of sight. Players would have to manually set the combat area, which would work similarly to setting a respawn area.

Additionally, you could attach a combat area to the A.I. That combat area would then have the radius of the A.I.'s range and move with the A.I.

Before you post, I would also like to explain how accuracy part of my idea would work. Imagine a basic player model (spartan/elite). For each accuracy level, their would be an area on and surrounding the player that the A.I. would shoot at. For the "poor" setting, this area would be much larger then the actual player, making it so the majority of the A.I.'s shots would pass right by. However, under the "perfect" setting, that area would be exactly the size of the player's body. Making it so it hits you every time.

This is more or less my idea, let me know what you think, and if there is anything i should change in order to make it more clear.



I want to clear some stuff up. Alot of people are saying how these A.I. are impossible to make, or are trying to make them into something that I am not trying to suggest. I call these things A.I.s because they look like the enemy A.I. in campaign.

Now, would you call the guardians snowbound A.I.s? They work on the same principle.

The snowbound turrets have a "line of sight." They will only fire at you if you are in a certain area in front of them that they can see.

The snowbound turrets have "combat areas." None of the turrets can shoot at you if you are not in the specified area towards the perimitar of the map.

Now, how hard would it be for Bungie to give these turrets a "walking" animation, and the ability to move a specified path it would follow.

Now, how hard would it be for Bungie to allow these turrets to shoot different perjectiles, and allow players to determine the damage that those perjectiles do.

Now, how hard would it be for Bungie to allow players to change the "skins" on these turrets so that they appear to be a marine, brute, or drone?

Think of customizable A.I.s in this sence, and it suddenly becomes much more likely!


[Edited on 08.19.2009 10:35 AM PDT]

  • 08.02.2009 2:13 PM PDT

If you vote no, please state why.

  • 08.02.2009 2:19 PM PDT
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that would be cool you could set up a huge battle

[Edited on 08.02.2009 2:28 PM PDT]

  • 08.02.2009 2:27 PM PDT

no too glitchy and laggy....we have firefight to fight people together

  • 08.02.2009 2:29 PM PDT

You dont know that it would be too laggy. Just because I suggest it, doesnt mean Bungie would implament it just like this. And if it doesnt work then Bungie wouldnt include it.

Not just that, you discredited yourself in your own statement

Posted by: purew4rrior
we have firefight


Since we are able to have so much together in fire fight, why wouldnt Bungie be able to work this in?

  • 08.02.2009 2:32 PM PDT

just trust me dude it wouldn't work out

  • 08.02.2009 2:34 PM PDT

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I support this idea 110%
They should all come default to how they are in campaign incase someone just wants to add normal bots. But from there a forger could edit them as they wish, as you suggested.

I don't know what you mean by "Range" though.

[Edited on 08.02.2009 2:38 PM PDT]

  • 08.02.2009 2:36 PM PDT

Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
I support this idea 110%
They should all come default to how they are in campaign incase someone just wants to add normal bots.

I don't know what you mean by "Range" though.

  • 08.02.2009 2:37 PM PDT

I see what you are conserned about with range, but it is simply the distance at which they will shoot you.

If the enemy AI is not within the combat zone whn you are, but can till see you and is within this distance, it will shoot at you.

  • 08.02.2009 2:40 PM PDT

Man is born free but everywhere he is in chains.

Maybe something along the lines of "scriptable enemies."
Such as putting down patrols in forge mode and what not.
Maybe in a forge type mode for Firefight games. AI in Halo's multiplayer doesn't sound like it would mix in the right way.
It would be very cool for Reach to have an editor for a Firefight-like gametype.

  • 08.02.2009 2:46 PM PDT

There are already patrol routes in the waypoints. Each AI gets 5 waypoints before it is either given the option to reverse its patrol or stop

  • 08.02.2009 3:25 PM PDT

Those who think there all that are all truly dead on the inside

I like this idea, i mean it would really be something cool to see because you would be able to make maps with like a little background story to it, kinda like making your own little campign( spelt wrong i no) story or something

  • 08.02.2009 3:32 PM PDT
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Posted by: Pocket Syndrome
I see what you are conserned about with range, but it is simply the distance at which they will shoot you.

If the enemy AI is not within the combat zone whn you are, but can till see you and is within this distance, it will shoot at you.


Maybe Range should be the area within the enemy can shoot acurately, and they can see you at twice there range but they may not fire or just miss.

  • 08.02.2009 3:34 PM PDT

look for me on xbl
GT QuInToN24

I back this idea 100%, you could make your own mini campaing lvl if you wanted to.

  • 08.02.2009 3:35 PM PDT

Exactly. Imagine the gameplay options that would open up.

On Sandtrap, marine snipers could stand on top of the giant obolisks shooting at anyone that enters hill locations on KOTH.

Or playing a form of ghostbuster on a city themed sandbox map, while patrols move around on the ground and rooftops.

  • 08.02.2009 3:35 PM PDT

Please realize that all the enemies in Firefight and Campaign are all designed specifically to fight in that one area from the ground up. If you were to take the program for a grunt on the first encounter of the Halo 3 campaign and stick him later on in the Covenant level, he wouldn't know what to do.

Creating AI that can handle specific situations is one thing, but creating a universal AI that can handle anything is nearly impossible. Especially since you want to add this to forge of all places. It would be quite a feat and a huge undertaking. I'm not saying its impossible or unfeasible, but it just seems that they have a lot of other things to focus on besides this. But hey, I'd be happy to be suprised.

  • 08.02.2009 3:36 PM PDT
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As you progress throughout your life you realize that the older you get the closer your are to death, the only thing you cannot change.

If Bungie were to impliment something like this, you could make a WHOLE NEW CAMPAIGN.
Maybe they should make a Campaign maker, that would be really really cool

  • 08.02.2009 3:37 PM PDT

Posted by: Gdude
Maybe Range should be the area within the enemy can shoot acurately, and they can see you at twice there range but they may not fire or just miss.


There is already an option for accuracy, and distance would obviously have an effect on how much influence accuracy will have.

Thank you for the input however.

  • 08.02.2009 3:38 PM PDT

Posted by: Hylebos
Please realize that all the enemies in Firefight and Campaign are all designed specifically to fight in that one area from the ground up. If you were to take the program for a grunt on the first encounter of the Halo 3 campaign and stick him later on in the Covenant level, he wouldn't know what to do.

Creating AI that can handle specific situations is one thing, but creating a universal AI that can handle anything is nearly impossible. Especially since you want to add this to forge of all places. It would be quite a feat and a huge undertaking. I'm not saying its impossible or unfeasible, but it just seems that they have a lot of other things to focus on besides this. But hey, I'd be happy to be suprised.


I do understand what you mean. But what I am suggesting here is NOT an option to use a complicated AI system. Rather a kind of "dumb" AI that woudnt do more than: move, detect enemy in combat area, shoot at enemy, enemy move out of combat area, stop shooting.

Think of it like KOTH. The "hill" moves to a location, detects a player in the kill, awards points to the player, player moves out of the hill, stop awarding points to the player.

I am NOT asking for a complicated system as I understand it.

  • 08.02.2009 3:42 PM PDT
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"We fight for those who believed there was a tomorrow! We fight for those who had all they have ever known taken from them! We fight for Reach!"

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anybody remeber time spliters 3? they had prety freakin sweet map editiong tools and there universal ai if they could do that back then surely bungie can do it.

  • 08.02.2009 3:44 PM PDT

Posted by: Gdude
If Bungie were to impliment something like this, you could make a WHOLE NEW CAMPAIGN.
Maybe they should make a Campaign maker, that would be really really cool


This isnt so much a "player made campaign" (as much as I would like to see one), as it is an interaction between player and AI. It isnt complex, it isnt too in-depth. It is mearly a detect and shoot system that I believe could add a lot to the Halo gameplay.

  • 08.02.2009 3:44 PM PDT

Posted by: XxAmbitusxX
anybody remeber time spliters 3? they had prety freakin sweet map editiong tools and there universal ai if they could do that back then surely bungie can do it.


Good example

  • 08.02.2009 3:45 PM PDT

I don't see you doing anything to help our country.
Except sitting at home, naked, eating twinkies, rubbing your hands together going "Heh. Target Destroyed. Mission Accomplished." Oh wait. that's not helping.

This would be way to much work to implement into the game. They'd need and almost separate game just for forge and customs. Its a good idea, but way to hard to pull off, if you want to do something a little like this get halo pc.

  • 08.02.2009 3:50 PM PDT

Tank beats everything!

Visit my youtube channel for Vehicular awesomeness!

This could be possible, depending on the power of Reaches game engine.

  • 08.02.2009 3:54 PM PDT

Posted by: Black Eagle X99
This would be way to much work to implement into the game. They'd need and almost separate game just for forge and customs. Its a good idea, but way to hard to pull off, if you want to do something a little like this get halo pc.


A whole seperate game? If you have read previous posts you will see how I compared it to a simple KOTH game. From my basic understanding of programmig (I dont pretend to be an expert), it would seem to be a fairly simple to edit a few already existing systems to fit this in in its basic form. For more detail, I dont know.

But until a programmer comes and tells me that this would require THAT much more work, I dont think so.

Remember I am not proposing complex bots, Bungie already stated that as impossible.

  • 08.02.2009 3:55 PM PDT