Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Should Bungie add customizable enemies in the forge of Halo: Reach?
  • Subject: Should Bungie add customizable enemies in the forge of Halo: Reach?
Subject: Should Bungie add customizable enemies in the forge of Halo: Reach?

Elite Soverign:
Stop lieing. Stop trolling. Unless you have something other than self promotion to contribute, please leave the thread.

LinkLegend0:
I see your thread, and the reason it didn't get attention is because there is no substance to it. You put a general idea out (that was already out there), and failed to provide detailed examples and explination. Please don't argue with me about this.

jac the cuban:
Once again, my suggestion does not require complex scripting. The player would be filling in the information on where to move/shoot. These are NOT complex A.I.s. They would likely be much more "dumbed down" than in campaign. It is worth to note, however, that most A.I.s in campaign DO NOT have complex scripting.

JammyJack143:
And I am sure some dedicated forger will make that if customizable A.I.s are put into Halo: Reach.

deserthawk950:
Your words demonstrate that you are blindly supporting my thread. I appreciate the support, but I don't want it if it is not earned. Please read the main post before posting again.

  • 08.18.2009 2:43 PM PDT

you could have 2 discs; reach and forge

reach; reach game
forge; campaign and/or multiplayer editor

  • 08.18.2009 3:16 PM PDT

~It's called the clam slam"~

OK Pocket, all I was doing was saying what I would do if Bungie really did put this into Halo: Reach. They don't demonstrate ANYTHING so stop trying to make me look like some idiotic 10 year old noob that has no idea what the heck he's talking about. Because I'm NOT.

  • 08.18.2009 3:26 PM PDT

Posted By Pocket Syndrome
Once again, my suggestion does not require complex scripting. The player would be filling in the information on where to move/shoot. These are NOT complex A.I.s. They would likely be much more "dumbed down" than in campaign. It is worth to note, however, that most A.I.s in campaign DO NOT have complex scripting.


I am not sure exactly what you mean by "complex scripting" as any AI, even a stationary turret incapable of doing anything but shooting in a straight forward direction, must have some line of directives that determine when it is to engage its firing sequence, and when to stop. Any AI that involves movement and interaction with a player in a real time environment must be programmed for a wide array of instances. Unless by a simple AI you refer to something that in no way is capable of representing an interesting opponent to even the most simplistic players in a halo environment, then I fail to understand what it is you are referring too.

In addition, such an AI would have no place in a game as advanced as halo, especially when the foundations for much more complex entities have already been fully constructed and refined in the campaign environment. To include an incredibly incapable AI in multiplayer therefore makes no sense, as higher level customization of these entities would be relatively simple and easy to present in a general user interface. In truth, it would probably take longer to actually code in specific dumb AI variants for multiplayer than to simply port over entities from campaign and add a high level GUI.

  • 08.18.2009 3:54 PM PDT

Posted by: JasmineWarrior
Posted By Pocket Syndrome
Once again, my suggestion does not require complex scripting. The player would be filling in the information on where to move/shoot. These are NOT complex A.I.s. They would likely be much more "dumbed down" than in campaign. It is worth to note, however, that most A.I.s in campaign DO NOT have complex scripting.


I am not sure exactly what you mean by "complex scripting" as any AI, even a stationary turret incapable of doing anything but shooting in a straight forward direction, must have some line of directives that determine when it is to engage its firing sequence, and when to stop. Any AI that involves movement and interaction with a player in a real time environment must be programmed for a wide array of instances. Unless by a simple AI you refer to something that in no way is capable of representing an interesting opponent to even the most simplistic players in a halo environment, then I fail to understand what it is you are referring too.

In addition, such an AI would have no place in a game as advanced as halo, especially when the foundations for much more complex entities have already been fully constructed and refined in the campaign environment. To include an incredibly incapable AI in multiplayer therefore makes no sense, as higher level customization of these entities would be relatively simple and easy to present in a general user interface. In truth, it would probably take longer to actually code in specific dumb AI variants for multiplayer than to simply port over entities from campaign and add a high level GUI.


When I speak of "complex scripting," I am refering to individual scripting, for a specific A.I., in specific circumstances. My idea is, more or less, to create a single basic type of A.I. (in terms of how it would "behaive") and put skins over it for various enemies.

What I gather from your post, is that you are looking at my idea in terms of making "opponents" for online players. This is not what I am after. Bungie has already stated that bots would be impossible, so I am working off the idea that any kind of advanced A.I., that could actually compete with a player, is impossible as well.

Although it may be possible that a more advanced A.I. can be made, I simply do not have the knowledge, experiance, or skill to say for certain than it can. If it was possible, I'm sure the programmers at Bungie could figure it out. But until then ... I can not say.

  • 08.18.2009 5:17 PM PDT

Posted by: deserthawk950
OK Pocket, all I was doing was saying what I would do if Bungie really did put this into Halo: Reach. They don't demonstrate ANYTHING so stop trying to make me look like some idiotic 10 year old noob that has no idea what the heck he's talking about. Because I'm NOT.


My statement saying that you "blindly support" my idea still holds true. I make this because your idea of "what you would do" is incompatible with mine. If you had read my orignial post, you would see the 25 A.I. limit for the purposes of managing lag. Furthermore, your entire post comprised of an idea that could have come up in a day dream. Please contribute to the conversation.

Additionally, I never implied you were "idiotic," "10 years old," a "noob," or that you had "no idea what the heck [your] talking about." I mearly am stating that your post does not contribute to the overall conversation.

  • 08.18.2009 5:25 PM PDT

There is no complex scripting needed.

Since the player draws out the path for the AI to follow, the movement script says, "Follow path drawn by player"

The team you set it to (No team, defenders/red, attackers/blue) will tell the AI to fire at which ever target is not on its team that it can 'see'

While I am no programmer, this does not seem that it would be too complex to include in a game.

[Edited on 08.18.2009 5:30 PM PDT]

  • 08.18.2009 5:29 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

This idea is beyond impossible to do that.

  • 08.18.2009 5:33 PM PDT

Posted by: Pocket Syndrome
Exactly. The gameplay options are infinite. Combine custom A.I.s with a from scratch map editor, and maybe customizable weapons. You get dang near infinite replayability for Halo: Reach, probabily making it one of the top selling games ... ever.

I mean, you could create your own horde mode, you could make an elimination game type (Kill all the AI within a certain time limit), and maybe even mock campaign levels.

The re playability is what sells a game. I mean, I will not buy a game that I can play once and be done with it. And what Pocket Syndrome is suggesting will give Halo: Reach more re playability than any other game I can think of.

  • 08.18.2009 5:34 PM PDT

AI is a lot more complicated than you think. Even just walking from point A to point B requires the inclusion of many variables. Your idea is extremely unlikely.

[Edited on 08.18.2009 6:14 PM PDT]

  • 08.18.2009 6:13 PM PDT

Posted by: Uae Gamer
This idea is beyond impossible to do that.


I want to clear some stuff up. Alot of people are saying how these A.I. are impossible to make, or are trying to make them into something that I am not trying to suggest. I call these things A.I.s because they look like the enemy A.I. in campaign.

Now, would you call the guardians snowbound A.I.s? They work on the same principle.

The snowbound turrets have a "line of sight." They will only fire at you if you are in a certain area in front of them that they can see.

The snowbound turrets have "combat areas." None of the turrets can shoot at you if you are not in the specified area towards the perimitar of the map.

Now, how hard would it be for Bungie to give these turrets a "walking" animation, and the ability to move a specified path it would follow.

Now, how hard would it be for Bungie to allow these turrets to shoot different perjectiles, and allow players to determine the damage that those perjectiles do.

Now, how hard would it be for Bungie to allow players to change the "skins" on these turrets so that they appear to be a marine, brute, or drone?

Think of customizable A.I.s in this sence, and it suddenly becomes much more likely!

  • 08.18.2009 7:00 PM PDT

Posted By: Pocket Syndrome
I want to clear some stuff up. Alot of people are saying how these A.I. are impossible to make, or are trying to make them into something that I am not trying to suggest. I call these things A.I.s because they look like the enemy A.I. in campaign.

Now, would you call the guardians snowbound A.I.s? They work on the same principle.

The snowbound turrets have a "line of sight." They will only fire at you if you are in a certain area in front of them that they can see.

The snowbound turrets have "combat areas." None of the turrets can shoot at you if you are not in the specified area towards the perimitar of the map.

Now, how hard would it be for Bungie to give these turrets a "walking" animation, and the ability to move a specified path it would follow.

Now, how hard would it be for Bungie to allow these turrets to shoot different perjectiles, and allow players to determine the damage that those perjectiles do.

Now, how hard would it be for Bungie to allow players to change the "skins" on these turrets so that they appear to be a marine, brute, or drone?

Think of customizable A.I.s in this sence, and it suddenly becomes much more likely!


I do not believe you understand exactly "how hard" it is to do things like this, especially in a player manipulable environment. It is not only much easier to introduce a simple path node system into forge and run a preset AI character along it that has already been completed, it also adds immensely to the enemy realism.

It is possible to have AI in forge,but by the manner you suggest their is little point to doing so, it would be better to simply incorporate the already existent campaign units and run them according to basic player set parameters.

  • 08.18.2009 8:44 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

i support the idea but try not to make it too much like halo wars...but the idea sounds awesome

  • 08.18.2009 9:22 PM PDT

Consol Embu
Xbox Ambassador

Hello community, If you have any questions or concerns then please feel free to ask, whatever it may be and I will answer them to the best of my knowledge/ability. (It may not be THE answer you're looking for but AN answer is better than NO answer.)

KEEP CALM AND PLAY XBOX
Thank you.

sez you...

  • 08.18.2009 9:40 PM PDT

CPT Syemeister

This is a absolutely wonderful idea, but unfortunately the xbox is not made for things like this. Have you seen an elephant flying, how much that lags? imagine a hundred ai having a shootout, and they may not be complex ai but their core programs are still there. Programs take power, and with so many programs running at once alot of power would be required, diverting the majority of the running speed from the actual game, focusing on those 'incomplex' programs. Now close your eyes and think of a large xbox live match. im sure you've had some really laggy ones so think of those and imagine what it would be like with that type of speed.
P.S it is an awesome idea and as you say bungie might be able to try it and if it doesnt work they can always scrub it.

  • 08.19.2009 1:59 AM PDT

Posted by: CPT Syemeister
This is a absolutely wonderful idea, but unfortunately the xbox is not made for things like this. Have you seen an elephant flying, how much that lags? imagine a hundred ai having a shootout, and they may not be complex ai but their core programs are still there. Programs take power, and with so many programs running at once alot of power would be required, diverting the majority of the running speed from the actual game, focusing on those 'incomplex' programs. Now close your eyes and think of a large xbox live match. im sure you've had some really laggy ones so think of those and imagine what it would be like with that type of speed.
P.S it is an awesome idea and as you say bungie might be able to try it and if it doesnt work they can always scrub it.


The lag from the elephant flying is due to the hundreds of objects being created/destoryed eveyr second. With 40+ explosives spawning, and then having to run 40+ explosion animations, and creating TONS of debris, causes the game to lag. This is simply due to the mass number of objects/animations on the map.

  • 08.19.2009 9:50 AM PDT

Posted by: JasmineWarrior
Posted By: Pocket Syndrome
I want to clear some stuff up. Alot of people are saying how these A.I. are impossible to make, or are trying to make them into something that I am not trying to suggest. I call these things A.I.s because they look like the enemy A.I. in campaign.

Now, would you call the guardians snowbound A.I.s? They work on the same principle.

The snowbound turrets have a "line of sight." They will only fire at you if you are in a certain area in front of them that they can see.

The snowbound turrets have "combat areas." None of the turrets can shoot at you if you are not in the specified area towards the perimitar of the map.

Now, how hard would it be for Bungie to give these turrets a "walking" animation, and the ability to move a specified path it would follow.

Now, how hard would it be for Bungie to allow these turrets to shoot different perjectiles, and allow players to determine the damage that those perjectiles do.

Now, how hard would it be for Bungie to allow players to change the "skins" on these turrets so that they appear to be a marine, brute, or drone?

Think of customizable A.I.s in this sence, and it suddenly becomes much more likely!


I do not believe you understand exactly "how hard" it is to do things like this, especially in a player manipulable environment. It is not only much easier to introduce a simple path node system into forge and run a preset AI character along it that has already been completed, it also adds immensely to the enemy realism.

It is possible to have AI in forge,but by the manner you suggest their is little point to doing so, it would be better to simply incorporate the already existent campaign units and run them according to basic player set parameters.


You don't seem to be making much sence. I am already suggesting a "path node system" that A.I. would follow. My only disagreement with you is your assumption that Bungie should be able to make the A.I.s have the ability to "chose" which path they want to take.

Since Bungie stated that bots would be impossible, I am assuming that any program that would have to "think" on its own would be impossible. My idea is simply to make a A.I. that would react with action X to object Y in situation Z.

  • 08.19.2009 9:56 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

awseome new way of infection

  • 08.19.2009 10:19 AM PDT

Check out my file share for cool maps

You are right AI are very possible in every sense. I had an idea about respawn points to mark an AI's paths and actions. Its similair to your waypoint idea. Its actually really basic and is a BIG plus for replay value and fun on forged maps. I really hope Bungie sees your forum. I was hoping that the AI limit would depend on the map. Bigger maps= Bigger carnage. Like 30-40 bots on Sandbox or Valhalla, while maps like The Pit would have 16 bots only. As for AI driving, you could pick a waypoint or something for that AI to drive to, kill any enemies, then move onto the next "waypoint", or just have them get to a location without stopping, like CTF or Territories. Then in VIP, have the AI specificly shoot the VIP depending on their range. Infection, however, the AI would be similiar to basic AI paths, but have a zombified look (Bloody, missing limbs/armor, etc.). But if this isn't possible, well then they can use campaing AI to simplify things or just not have forgable AI.

[Edited on 08.19.2009 10:31 AM PDT]

  • 08.19.2009 10:27 AM PDT

no. firefight is enough...for now...




but a new type of infection (flood infection) would be cool.

[Edited on 08.19.2009 10:41 AM PDT]

  • 08.19.2009 10:38 AM PDT

Posted by: jakke96
no. firefight is enough...for now...




but a new type of infection (flood infection) would be cool.


Firefight is enough, therefore Bungie shouldn't do anything new? Wow, I always though more improvment is better.

  • 08.19.2009 11:06 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: V raptor
you could have 2 discs; reach and forge

reach; reach game
forge; campaign and/or multiplayer editor

WHY WOULD THERE!!!!!!

[Edited on 08.19.2009 11:19 AM PDT]

  • 08.19.2009 11:18 AM PDT

Posted by: WestSideRemixer
Posted by: V raptor
you could have 2 discs; reach and forge

reach; reach game
forge; campaign and/or multiplayer editor

WHY WOULD THERE!!!!!!


Because they spent so much time and put so much effort into it, that forging/custom games/matchmaking take as much information as a full game? I would see that as a plus. They are already making two disks for ODST.

  • 08.19.2009 11:35 AM PDT
  • gamertag: S kaur
  • user homepage:

Blam!

But maybe its possible for bungie because timesplitters future perfect had a map editor WITH AI!

  • 08.19.2009 11:40 AM PDT

Check out my file share for cool maps

Yeah if Pandemic could do it then Bungie certainly can and in Battlefront two there are mods that have hundreds of AI on the map and it doesn't lag (if you have a good PC), so Xbox could have up to at least 40-50 AI...maybe.

  • 08.19.2009 11:56 AM PDT