Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Halo Reach:Weapon/Gameplay Balance and the Golden Triangle
  • Subject: Halo Reach:Weapon/Gameplay Balance and the Golden Triangle
Subject: Halo Reach:Weapon/Gameplay Balance and the Golden Triangle
  •  | 
  • Exalted Legendary Member

I am the hand of fate!

Tis a wall of text. You have been notified

Intro

I've tried to make this thread a decent amount of times. It is a hard thread to make, because, frankly, while writing it I always end up feeling that I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. Pushing that feeling aside, here are my thoughts on the overall balance of Halo Reach's multiplayer, pertaining it is uses the Halo trilogy's multiplayer as a template. To start off, Halo 1 had the most balanced in the series. Each weapon served a purpose, and while there was a bit of a gap in mid-range weapons (a common theme I will echo in this thread), the game worked well. AR=good starting weapon on small to medium sized maps, Pistol=Death machine that worked well on medium sized/larger maps, and then the other weapons fell into their respective places, with some (particularly Covenant weapons) receiving VERY interesting traits that led to further diversity. Each weapon had a unique purpose, and had to be used differently.

Then came the Golden Triangle-the three core components of Halo. Weapons, Melee, Grenade. While melee was a little clunky, it required true skill to hit someone with it, the other two worked fine, and it made the game focused on what it should be-shooting. Nades were powerful, but due to the time it took them to explode, they could be avoided, and had to be thrown perfectly to cause real damage. You'll notice that in Halo 3, both of these have significant boosts-many players have both grenades and melee near the top of their weapon kill charts. While these two have gone up, the kill power in weapons has decreased-I believe that this trend is in someways directly connected with the overall decline of the multiplayer in the series

Now don't get me wrong, Halo 3 is still an amazing game. While it probably is more around the 9-9.5 range, I continually give it a 10. The core controls have been refined nearly perfectly-but the elements surrounding them, weapons, melee, player speed, etc, are all slightly off. In Halo 1, weapons killed fast, a bit too fast, but it worked well for the game. The Assault Rifle could kill in 16 shots, the Plasma Rifle in 15ish, the Pistol in (and this is the bit too fast part) 3, and most others quickly if not instantly as well. Now they don't. This however, is okay. But, the increased power and ability to explode faster in nades and the horrendous melee lunge that can kill too easily aren't.

Another problem is the dominance of mid-ranged weapons, which stems from overall map design, as well as weapon balance as a whole. If you look at the series, there is only one or two (and if there is two, one of them is excluded) mid-ranged weapons. In Halo 1, it was okay because EVERY WEAPON HAD A DIFFERENT ROLE, AND FUNCTIONED WITHIN THAT ROLE, and more so, most (if not all) weapons had better ranged and accuracy, which is another key component of how awful Halo 3's weapon balance is. In Halo 1, it was the Pistol. BUT, while it was insanely overpowered, the other weapons had such good range/accuracy/power that it was not that bad. In Halo 3, the BR is pretty much the Pistol, except it is semi-automatic (which is a duel-sword), takes one more pull of the right trigger to kill, and everything around it sucks. The last sentence is the issue.

The AR is a god awful weapon. While it may be able to get the job done sometimes, it's inaccuracy and range is so awful that if you aim at a target freaking 10 meters away it takes 3/4 of its bloody clip to kill someone. The BR can kill in 1/3, and that's from a decent amount of the map-the best that the AR can do is 1/2 of its clip to kill one guy, and that's if your withing 5 METERS OF THEM AND THEY'RE STANDING STILL. The melee doesn't help out either. It is so powerful that it makes it so that shooting more than a few times with the AR is pointless, and meleeing is much easier to do. A few of Halo 3's weapons (Spiker, SMG, Assault Rifle) have this issue, while the rest have issues of their own. The Magnum is also too inaccurate and short ranged. The Plasma Pistol. Good GOD. It can barely even kill anymore. The Plasma Rifle lost respectability when it lost Plasma Freeze. The Needler and Brute Shot actually function well, which is good. However, the majority of the weaponry is only useful at extremely close range.

This is wherein one of the main issues lie. The majority of the weaponry is so not close to mid-range that it cannot put up a fight against it AT ALL. I'm not saying the AR should be able to beat a BR unconditionally from 25 meters away, but it would be nice if the playing field was somewhat even, and it had a fair shot. Another key issue is grenades. While they once were avoidable and non lethal, they have become much too powerful. They explode to fast, travel to quick, and can take off shields on a dime. Melee is one of the worst offenders. The awful melee lunge coupled with the short range of most weapons turns the game into a melee frenzy. Even worse, it takes off shields automatically. Due to the short range of weapons most weapons, unless you have a BR you have to stay in close-quarters-making short-range power weapons (Sword, Shotty, Hammer) become instruments of camping. With only one mid-ranged weapon and so many short-ranged weapons, the game is nearly broken. But it can be fixed, which is why this post is in the Halo Reach Forum

It would be an overhaul, but I think it would be best for everyone. Here's what I would do.

Starting Weapon
The starting weapon should be mid-ranged, not overly powerful, and automatic, but more accurate when fired single shot. A good example of one I would favor is the SCR, a weapon described and found in this thread http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=34527266. The core concept is a non-powerful weapon able to give you a fighting chance in most situations that still urges you to find other weapons to pick up.

Weapons
BR-kept relatively the same, but used much less, only a few on medium maps, but a large amount of large maps. Has a fairly high (45-60) respawn time.

AR/Spiker/SMG-all have range and accuracy increase to around the Halo 1 Assault Rifle range, with varying differences (the AR should be more accurate and have a bit more range), even though the SMG and Spiker both should lose a lot of that when duel-wielded.The AR should also have a larger clip.

Plasma Weapons-The Plasma weapons (Rifle, Pistol) should have their freeze returned, and they should both be a bit more accurate and ranged. The Pistol should get a fairly large boost of power, as right now it is pathetic. I also think it would be interesting for the Pistol to be able to kill in 2 or 3 charged shots single wield, and then 3 or 4 duel-wielded.

Magnum-I would like to see a toned down version of the new AutoMag, along with the current Magnum

It may also be interesting for the Silenced SMG to make an appearance.

Grenades-Almost all should take longer to explode, and be less powerful.

Melee-Melee should be weaker, with 1 hit to take off either 1/2-3/4 shields, and another to either kill or make you on the completer verge of death. Its lunge should also be less ranged.

Other Tweaks

Have the ability to turn off auto-aim, possibly mess with the jumping and overall speed.

I'll update this later with user-feedback and some more added points. Thoughts?

[Edited on 08.03.2009 8:31 AM PDT]

  • 08.03.2009 8:28 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Legendary Member

I am the hand of fate!

Reserved

  • 08.03.2009 8:29 AM PDT

MechanicalHorizn:
You must lay a sacrifice on the almighty altar of FRAG. It demands you get 4 kills with 1 laser shot.
Only then will the gods be appeased.

Me: Im going to hell...

I read through you're whole post, and agreed on everything except one thing.
Grenades do not need to be weaker, if anything, they need to be stronger. When you stick a warthog or ghost, I want it to blow up like it did in the other games, and when a live grenade is directly under your feet and you took a little damage already, it should kill you (which it does the majority of the time)

  • 08.03.2009 9:13 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Legendary Member

I am the hand of fate!

Posted by: Klimekboy
I read through you're whole post, and agreed on everything except one thing.
Grenades do not need to be weaker, if anything, they need to be stronger. When you stick a warthog or ghost, I want it to blow up like it did in the other games, and when a live grenade is directly under your feet and you took a little damage already, it should kill you (which it does the majority of the time)

I agree with you on that, and I'll update the post accordingly. What I meant was mainly frags-Stickies and Spikes should do more damage to vehicles.

  • 08.03.2009 9:22 AM PDT

MechanicalHorizn:
You must lay a sacrifice on the almighty altar of FRAG. It demands you get 4 kills with 1 laser shot.
Only then will the gods be appeased.

Me: Im going to hell...

Wow, it bothers me when someone takes the time to write up a good post and no one reads it or posts.

  • 08.03.2009 9:33 AM PDT

Remember,
It is easy to be male
it is another thing to be a man.

I agree with the majority of what you have said especially the lack of medium range weapons and the surplus amount of short range weapons.

  • 08.03.2009 9:39 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Grenades need to be stronger with longer fuses like in Halo CE. The frags should always detonate in a fixed time after leaving your hand. Not one second after hitting the ground, that removes all the skill of grenading your opponents.

  • 08.03.2009 9:45 AM PDT

Life is interesting...

Posted by: Lunatic__Brandon
Grenades need to be stronger with longer fuses like in Halo CE. The frags should always detonate in a fixed time after leaving your hand. Not one second after hitting the ground, that removes all the skill of grenading your opponents.


If you read about the grenades you would know that they only activate after hitting the ground.

  • 08.03.2009 9:51 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Mepps Minnow 2
Posted by: Lunatic__Brandon
Grenades need to be stronger with longer fuses like in Halo CE. The frags should always detonate in a fixed time after leaving your hand. Not one second after hitting the ground, that removes all the skill of grenading your opponents.


If you read about the grenades you would know that they only activate after hitting the ground.


I think they should activate in your hands.

  • 08.03.2009 9:56 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Legendary Member

I am the hand of fate!

Posted by: Lunatic__Brandon
Posted by: Mepps Minnow 2
Posted by: Lunatic__Brandon
Grenades need to be stronger with longer fuses like in Halo CE. The frags should always detonate in a fixed time after leaving your hand. Not one second after hitting the ground, that removes all the skill of grenading your opponents.


If you read about the grenades you would know that they only activate after hitting the ground.


I think they should activate in your hands.

I agree, it might be nice for Bungie to try this one out and see if it works better.

  • 08.03.2009 10:05 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Legendary Member

I am the hand of fate!

Posted by: Peacekeeper MX
I agree with the majority of what you have said especially the lack of medium range weapons and the surplus amount of short range weapons.

Yeah, that's one of the main issues I have with the game, the BR is more of a medium/long range weapon, but because there's nothing else it has to fill that role, where it shouldn't be. The crappy range on everything else doesn't help. I hope they can get some range and accuracy increases on some of the worst offenders, and then put some more medium ranged weapons in, one as a starter, and then another that's maybe single shot or something like that.

  • 08.03.2009 11:23 AM PDT