Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Don't make the same mistake you did in Halo 3.
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Subject: Don't make the same mistake you did in Halo 3.
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  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Make the BR single shot.

  • 08.04.2009 3:47 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
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Posted by: JackyBoy575
Not to sound like an ass, but a lower player would more than likely consistently be "out-(insert weapon here)" by more experianced player 9/10 times. That's the way of it. The stupidity behind it is that to remedy the situation all they need to do is get good with a BR. Not learn to play better, or improve strategy but just to be a better shot with the BR. That mindset kills me.[/quote] Halo should be a mind based game, (which is a much better form of kill than aiming) rather than a "whoever practices their aiming the most always wins" kinda game.


Your kind of close to my point I guess, basically i'd like to see a return to strategy that doesn't only involved spawn camping/trapping and camping firing lanes, and the BR promotes this more than any other weapon in the game due to it's ease of use and effectiveness.

That being said it cannot be removed entirely because there needs to be something in it's role. They do however need to return a degree of skill to using it again so that it isn't a common "go to" weapon. Personally the AR should be the basic fall back weapon, not the BR. But the BR is so much more useful than the AR it makes no sense to ignore it. It shoe-horns the gameplay and makes it utterly boring IMO.

  • 08.04.2009 3:48 PM PDT

One does not simply walk into Halo.

Posted by: TR1GGERHAPPYA55
Posted by: SWOOSH 0309
[Halo became a teamwork game since Halo 2 was introduced. Halo CE was skill based.

And what else was introduced with Halo 2? That's right! The BR.

The BR has totally flattened the skill curve. Now it's about teamwork because player vs player is just a BR contest.

Halo Reach should be another skill based Halo game.

It wasn't so much team based because of the BR, rather because almost all of the weapons were nerfed. Halo CE's weapons had their intended uses and could hold their own against other weapons.

  • 08.04.2009 3:53 PM PDT

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Posted by: SWOOSH 0309
Posted by: TR1GGERHAPPYA55
Posted by: SWOOSH 0309
[Halo became a teamwork game since Halo 2 was introduced. Halo CE was skill based.

And what else was introduced with Halo 2? That's right! The BR.

The BR has totally flattened the skill curve. Now it's about teamwork because player vs player is just a BR contest.

Halo Reach should be another skill based Halo game.

It wasn't so much team based because of the BR, rather because almost all of the weapons were nerfed. Halo CE's weapons had their intended uses and could hold their own against other weapons.

Except the pistol.

  • 08.04.2009 3:53 PM PDT
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Legends never die.

Posted by: SweetTRIX
They do however need to return a degree of skill to using it again so that it isn't a common "go to" weapon. Personally the AR should be the basic fall back weapon, not the BR. But the BR is so much more useful than the AR it makes no sense to ignore it. It shoe-horns the gameplay and makes it utterly boring IMO.


Exactly. Take the game back to the good old days of actually picking up weapons and trading weapons on a regular basis. Strategy didn't always involve "setting up a BR trap" and using one gun the whole game.

You've said it my friend! The game has gotten boring and monotonous with hardly any variety.
(new playlists even fail to spice up the game for the mere fact that everyone just strafes and BRs all game despite the gametype)

[Edited on 08.04.2009 3:56 PM PDT]

  • 08.04.2009 3:55 PM PDT

One does not simply walk into Halo.

Posted by: SS_Crow
Posted by: SWOOSH 0309
Posted by: TR1GGERHAPPYA55
Posted by: SWOOSH 0309
[Halo became a teamwork game since Halo 2 was introduced. Halo CE was skill based.

And what else was introduced with Halo 2? That's right! The BR.

The BR has totally flattened the skill curve. Now it's about teamwork because player vs player is just a BR contest.

Halo Reach should be another skill based Halo game.

It wasn't so much team based because of the BR, rather because almost all of the weapons were nerfed. Halo CE's weapons had their intended uses and could hold their own against other weapons.

Except the pistol.

Halo CE also had less aim assist. Or was that bullet magnetism?

[Edited on 08.04.2009 3:58 PM PDT]

  • 08.04.2009 3:57 PM PDT
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Legends never die.

Posted by: SWOOSH 0309
Halo CE also had less aim assist. Or was that bullet magnetism?


CE had very little aim assist and varying bullet magnetism (in some guns.)

Obviously the needler had a lot more bullet magnetism than any other gun and the sniper rifle had none.

[Edited on 08.04.2009 4:13 PM PDT]

  • 08.04.2009 4:03 PM PDT

Character Artist -- Electronic Arts

Does it matter?

Halo 3 is easily the best title thus far. Why should Bungie return to the conventions of Halo CE?

I've been going to a handful of Halo 1 Lan Parties lately, and they are not nearly as fun as Halo 3.

let nostalgia DIE and move on.

  • 08.04.2009 4:06 PM PDT
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Legends never die.

Posted by: SS_Crow
Does it matter?

Halo 3 is easily the best title thus far. Why should Bungie return to the conventions of Halo CE?

I've been going to a handful of Halo 1 Lan Parties lately, and they are not nearly as fun as Halo 3.

let nostalgia DIE and move on.


Well, this thread isn't about Halo CE being a better game than Halo 3 (though for it's time in undoubtedly was/is.)

We are simply using CE as a reference point for weapon balance. If you haven't noticed Halo 3 does't have it- CE did.

[Edited on 08.04.2009 4:10 PM PDT]

  • 08.04.2009 4:09 PM PDT
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Legends never die.

"The BR killed weapon balance!" is what this thread should read.

  • 08.04.2009 4:11 PM PDT

I hunt for the Prophet of Contentment, the San 'Shyumm that murdered my son, and stole his birthright, his Energy Sword. They call our species Heretics. They claim to all that our tongues sting, our words a vile poison that feeds on the unworthy. I have seen the true face of Heresy. The head of a gallant warrior lay on the ground. His neck scorched and blistered, scarred by his own blade. I shall retrieve the weapon, and drive it through that bastard's heart! Punishment for his sins is nigh.

You do realize that a good player at Halo 2 WORKED bad players on a regular basis, and in Halo 3 the game was made easier, so those good players actually lose to bad players sometimes right?

[Edited on 08.04.2009 4:14 PM PDT]

  • 08.04.2009 4:13 PM PDT
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Legends never die.

Posted by: Fos Tis Krisis
You do realize that a good player at Halo 2 WORKED bad players on a regular basis, and in Halo 3 the game was made easier, so those good players actually lose to bad players sometimes right?


There in lies the problem with the BR. I say get rid of the BR. And since it was only in a "testing phase" when the battle for Reach was being fought it wouldn't play into the story very well any way.

I wouldn't miss it after the first couple of mm games.

[Edited on 08.04.2009 4:19 PM PDT]

  • 08.04.2009 4:16 PM PDT

Posted by: JackyBoy575
Halo should be a mind based game, (which is a much better form of kill than aiming) rather than a "whoever practices their aiming the most always wins" kinda game.


If that were the case, if you watch MLG Vod, pros pretty much all have the same aiming skill with a br, how come there are clearly better teams and individuals that may have that same weapon skill as his fellow pro, but their mind game is what sets them apart?

Look at the results between Str8 and TD, it is arguable that these teams have the same skill, but that wasn't the case watching those games, especially on the pit slayer when TD almost got steaked.

So Halo 3, is clearly a mind game, the carbine, if you take the time to master it beats a BR, but that is the thing, the carbine is a harder weapon to use effectively, oddly not very many people including myself take the time to get better with it.

  • 08.04.2009 4:20 PM PDT

Check this out! Thanks for making a great game Bungie! I have over 6,000 sniper kills!
[url=http://www.youtube.com/user/XxSniperJobexX/]Check out my youtube channel![url/]

Or maybe if all the little noobs didn't cry everytime the were killed be a BR we wouldn't have this problem. Go play Call of Duty if you want any fun.

  • 08.04.2009 4:23 PM PDT
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Posted by: bansheeownz
Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Or make the AR harder to use.

You're killing me, Cheehwawa! You're killing me! So hilarious!

Maybe if they made obsolete weapons more effective, the BR won't be the ganking mobster it is today. Like.. oh I dunno... the Plasma Rifle and the Magnum, perhaps?


YES! This is a prime example where you don't need to nerf or remove the BR to achieve weapon balance.

  • 08.04.2009 4:27 PM PDT
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Legends never die.

Posted by: lovaboy15
Or maybe if all the little noobs didn't cry everytime the were killed be a BR we wouldn't have this problem. Go play Call of Duty if you want any fun.


That isn't the problem here. I love using the BR and r4pe noobs with it on a regular basis. But to be honest with you, I'd rather have Reach be a game where one gun didn't rule them all.

It's about weapon balance, not people angry about getting killed by the BR.

Keep in mind this is a Halo: Reach thread. I would never advocate taking the BR out of Halo 3. But as we are talking about a brand new game it would be nice to see something new.

  • 08.04.2009 4:27 PM PDT
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Legends never die.

Posted by: Josh 22 T
Posted by: bansheeownz
Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Or make the AR harder to use.

You're killing me, Cheehwawa! You're killing me! So hilarious!

Maybe if they made obsolete weapons more effective, the BR won't be the ganking mobster it is today. Like.. oh I dunno... the Plasma Rifle and the Magnum, perhaps?


YES! This is a prime example where you don't need to nerf or remove the BR to achieve weapon balance.

@MLG Cheehwawa..... owned!

  • 08.04.2009 4:28 PM PDT

Posted by: TR1GGERHAPPYA55
Posted by: lovaboy15
Or maybe if all the little noobs didn't cry everytime the were killed be a BR we wouldn't have this problem. Go play Call of Duty if you want any fun.


That isn't the problem here. I love using the BR and r4pe noobs with it on a regular basis. But to be honest with you, I'd rather have Reach be a game where one gun didn't rule them all.

It's about weapon balance, not people angry about getting killed by the BR.

Keep in mind this is a Halo: Reach thread. I would never advocate taking the BR out of Halo 3. But as we are talking about a brand new game it would be nice to see something new.


Does a BR beat a mid range weapon like Rockets? I don't think so, facing someone who is a skilled sniper who can no/quick scope in a mid range battle, is the BR guaranteed to win every time? No, one of the best tactics is when you have snipe say on your green and the enemy starts BRing you from there green, well you can act like you are going to run away pop back out get into scope turn the corner and hopefully snipe him, or if you are unlucky put a body shot on him and let your teammates clean up the kill or you.

  • 08.04.2009 4:36 PM PDT
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Legends never die.

Posted by: tgeezyband
Posted by: TR1GGERHAPPYA55
Posted by: lovaboy15
Or maybe if all the little noobs didn't cry everytime the were killed be a BR we wouldn't have this problem. Go play Call of Duty if you want any fun.


That isn't the problem here. I love using the BR and r4pe noobs with it on a regular basis. But to be honest with you, I'd rather have Reach be a game where one gun didn't rule them all.

It's about weapon balance, not people angry about getting killed by the BR.

Keep in mind this is a Halo: Reach thread. I would never advocate taking the BR out of Halo 3. But as we are talking about a brand new game it would be nice to see something new.


Does a BR beat a mid range weapon like Rockets? I don't think so, facing someone who is a skilled sniper who can no/quick scope in a mid range battle, is the BR guaranteed to win every time? No, one of the best tactics is when you have snipe say on your green and the enemy starts BRing you from there green, well you can act like you are going to run away pop back out get into scope turn the corner and hopefully snipe him, or if you are unlucky put a body shot on him and let your teammates clean up the kill or you.


There are obviously still situations where the BR will get beat. Like in close range battle against a shotgun or maybe mid range battle against rockets.

But in the vast majority of cases the BR is the only weapon you want or need.
Furthermore, running into a tight corner or close range situation with a BR has nothing to do with weapon balance. That has to do with horrible gameplay tactics.

[Edited on 08.04.2009 4:44 PM PDT]

  • 08.04.2009 4:42 PM PDT
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Legends never die.

Obviously the BR isn't a melee range weapon. But it can still dominate within AR range and outside of midrange.

It's far too versatile

And let me stress this point again: the BR has it's place in Halo 3 and I would hate to play Halo 3 without it. But as Reach is a new game and weapon balance needs to be addressed, the BR is a hot topic right now.

[Edited on 08.04.2009 4:49 PM PDT]

  • 08.04.2009 4:47 PM PDT
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Posted by: Gig4t3ch
Fact 2: European guys are hotter

I guess I can understand if you don't want to make out with guys in the US if they're so ugly, you should just say so though.

Posted by: JackyBoy575
Posted by: AYuDEAD
If you make the BR easier to use Halo will become a game of NO-Skill

There is skill beyond aiming, and you will know that if you are any good. Anyways, Halo should be about teamwork, playing with friends, and out smartening your enemy. Not just who can four-shot first.


Ok cool, You're right. But thats not what this is about, this is about weapon balance, which depends on weapon power and rate of fire.

You're obviously bad, if you've played 10k games and have only a 44 in MLG. I've been to 46 in MLG and i've only play 4k games. Don't come in here saying you know what skill is. Just cause you play to much doesn't mean your good.

  • 08.04.2009 5:07 PM PDT
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Posted by: Gig4t3ch
Fact 2: European guys are hotter

I guess I can understand if you don't want to make out with guys in the US if they're so ugly, you should just say so though.

Posted by: lovaboy15
Or maybe if all the little noobs didn't cry everytime the were killed be a BR we wouldn't have this problem. Go play Call of Duty if you want any fun.


And you know what skill is lol!

  • 08.04.2009 5:10 PM PDT

Posted by: JackyBoy575
out smartening your enemy.


[Edited on 08.04.2009 5:18 PM PDT]

  • 08.04.2009 5:18 PM PDT

Posted by: JackyBoy575
Posted by: SweetTRIX
Posted by: JackyBoy575
Bungie has made this hard to use in an attempt to make the BR less effective.


The BR hard to use? I see no way in which this is the case. It can take time to get very proficient with it (true of any weapon), but it is in no way difficult to use, hence the appeal. Honestly, while I understand the need for mid-range game, it needs to be made less usefull, and strictly functional within it's range bracket.

A BR should only be usefull where it's intended, instead in the current system it is the most well-rounded and usefull weapon in the game, at any range. This is the issue, not it's ease/difficulty of use.


Sooo. why do lower players CONSISTENTLY get out br-ed by other players


Cause they suck?

  • 08.04.2009 5:20 PM PDT

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Posted by: TR1GGERHAPPYA55
@ Cheewawa:...You seemed to of missed my point. I love the BR and I use it every time I can in Halo 3. That is where the problem lies.

Many old timers who have played since CE (and love to use the H3 BR) agree that the skill curve and learning curve has been pretty much flattened with the addition of the very easy to use and very easy to kill with BR.

You must not know what weapon balance is!! One gun rules them all is not weapon balance!! Check the stats of every player on this site and their #1 tool of destruction is the BR. How in the hell is that weapon balance?

P.S. sorry for calling you an idiot but your name makes me very angry
I played Halo 1 since 2001 so I know what you mean. The BR just needs to be made take skill (remove burst fire, make it a re-skinned Halo 1 pistol that kills in 5 or 6 headshots instead of 3), but saying that removing the BR would fix weapon balance is not correct.

I agree that one gun ruling them all is horrible. Thats why dual wielding needs to be removed and everything needs to be able to be used in midrange (except the sword/hammer), even the shotgun, provided they are used in the right hands, so that the BR is not the only versatile weapon (as it stands in Halo 2 and 3).

P.S. great to see who the token jackass in this thread is. You call me an idiot and then say I got "owned" by a post which mirrors my exact thoughts, which you can find here. You know nothing about me so you don't have any business saying anything to me.

[Edited on 08.04.2009 5:26 PM PDT]

  • 08.04.2009 5:21 PM PDT

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