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  • Subject: All current weapons, for balance, repurpose, and variety
Subject: All current weapons, for balance, repurpose, and variety

If you want to see the MC die, play Legendary. If you want to see MC finish the fight, play Halo 3. If you want to see MC finish the fight by dieing, why did you waste six years when you could have done it yourself right now?

☼►Popular Fusion - Doing anything, everything, and then some.◄☼

I'm not screwing around for this thread. What I wish to discuss with you is for the edition (not additon) of Reach's weapon library to create a more varied weapon selection for different purposes, and different strengths and weaknesses.

We have a LOT of weapons in Halo 3. Really, we do. It's hard to tell by taking a glimpse at the matchmaking system though. Most of what you see is BR's AR's, and Melees, but why is it that players wish to use only a select few of them? The answer is quite obvious. Most weapons fall under a similar class of weapon. Close range. It's all most of them are good for and even then, the Assault Rifle does its job better then many of them do, making them obsolete. Even if you had the chance to pick it up, would you do it, or would you drop it the instant a BR or Sniper is within reach?

What I wish to discuss with you is something you've probably heard a lot around here. Making more mid-range weapons, add variety to Halo's already existing library, and attempt to avoid obsoleteness we see with the current Magnum and Plasma Rifle. Doing these things WILL solve many of the complaints you see around here.

Firstly before I begin, I will attempt to sell you the same list of ideas that I've been trying to sell since before H3 came out. The ability to hold onto and melee with your duel-wield combo and NOT weaken them when duel-wielded. Sure, it'll break canon to hold onto more then 2 weapons in reserve, but support weapons already did that.

Why wouldn't you want to add it? It'll cut down significantly on grenade spamming to keep a complete combo with duel-wield and make it more accessible to use. Sure, this would make quadruple-wielding possible, but that won't be too much of an advantage. I mean, how many times have you DW'ed, went into melee finish, then after the fight lost your left hand weapon in the scattering of your enemy's weapons? If there was nothing happening, you wouldn't care, but you're in the middle of a freeken battle. So... you take a two handed weapon instead. It doesn't make sense to keep searching for the weapon because it's not much of an advantage. To drop your duel-wield weapons, you'd press D-pad left and right for the different weapons.

Moving right along. There will now be 3 default weapon sets including the accompanying default starting weapons, the Human Primary. These sets are known as grade 1, 2, and 3 weapon sets. Each individual weapon falls under a certain category. They are Human Primary, Elite Primary, Brute Primary, Human Snipe, Covenant Snipe, Human Close, Elite Close, and Brute Close. That's 8 weapons per map; roughly. If the map is very large, it can have multiple of the the same class weapon and some from a lower grade for filler. On small maps, there can be higher grade weapons as power weapons. I won't be covering grenades, equipment, vehicles, or support weapons. I'm only covering the basic fundamental weapon sets. While I go down the list, I will explain each weapons new functionality to help support these new defaults.

Grade 1: Duel-Wields

Human Primary: SMG
That's right, the SMG will be a starting weapon again, for this set at least. My quarrel is not with this weapon specifically, but with other weapons competing with it.



Elite Primary: Plasma Rifle
I just don't get why Plasma weapons in general were so nerfed in the first place. They're supposed to be more powerful and effective, but in Halo's engine, they move slower, do less damage, and are just plain more difficult to use. The ONLY thing they're good for is a very rapid dousing of damage and a melee finish. Heck, even the Scarab's main cannon seems very weak. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Shouldn't the Human weapons only advantages be a faster moving projectile and more rapid fire?

The new Plasma Rifle will be slightly more powerful but easier to use as well. It will track to its target the same way Halo 2's Plasma Pistol charge did, and regain the stunning effect it had the original Halo. As for how powerful it will actually be is not only hard to say in words, but is really not up to me to say in the first place. The power of weapons is all based on a rigorous testing process. Sure their direction might have been a little off because of an over-saturation of close range weapons, but it was well minded. If they built Halo: Reach from the ground up to have a balance of close, mid, and long range weapons, the power of weapons will be well balanced.



Brute Primary: Spiker

In all honestly, I think the reason why Brutes and their tech seems so inferior is BECAUSE they tried too hard to be like Elites, and not have a personality of their own. I mean, plasma was already nerfed and Brute weaponry was simply and reskinning of these nerfed weapons. Why not try to do something a little different instead?

How about this? It doesn't get a power increase. It becomes instead a headshot killer, like a BR and a Magnum. It will become an extremely effective clean upper at close range and will support pretty much any duel-wielded weapon you pick up VERY well.

Would it be too powerful? Likely so in Halo 3. But pretty much everything is being powered up to rival weapons like the Battle Rifle.



Human Snipe: Magnum
The snipe and close range classes are treated more as power weapons and are less common then the primary weapons. In the duel-wield set, they are still power weapons though, just not enourmously overpowering.

The new magnum is not going to replace the BR as many suggest here. It will get it's firing speed and round per mag from Halo 2 back. It will also be as accurate as it was in the original Halo. The only thing strength it won't have is power. It'll take about a full mag to kill a fully shielded enemy by itself. What this means is this weapon will be feared and absolutely terrifying duel-wielded with another Magnum, but they won't spawn together. And since this weapon is in the place of a power weapon, it will be treated as such.



Covenant Snipe: Plasma Pistol

Again, remember, this is to be treated as a power weapon. Keep this in mind when reading what I'm about to tell you because it might sound a tad extremist. The new PP may not be able to track to its target the way the H2 PP did, but the new Plasma Pistol will be one of the most versatile weapons in the game. Its rapid fire shots will be as fast as they were in the original Halo and overheat at about the same rate but will not be as powerful as they were but it will be able to give headshots the same as the new Brute Shot. On top of this, the new charge shot will not only kill the shields of a shielded opponent but will completely kill a non shielded opponent, making a 2 PPs in a single persons hands the ultimate BFG combo.

What on earth am I trying to do to Halo? Yes, I know it might sound very overpowered and I can only imagine what it will do to the Campaign, but think about it this way? Do these strengths compete with the Battle Rifle yet? It is only when these advantages are taken into account does it even compare to the BR's power and range. Combined with a BR to make the "what what" combo? Under my system, these weapons are segregated to different sets, but I'm sure that won't stop people from forging the combo or using it on everything in Campaign. On the other hand, almost everything is getting more effective.



Human Close: SMG

This is one of the weaker points of the DW set, but more ammo will definitely be appreciated. There are less power weapons in the DW set but that is good because the DW set is meant for maps like Epitaph where the map is designed for free for all.



Elite Close: Plasma Rifle

See above... with the exception of the ammo part.



Brute Close: Mauler

Granted the Mauler might be the weakest of the power weapons here, but it will be plain more effective then an SMG or a PR.

Continued on the next post below.

  • 08.04.2009 6:03 PM PDT

If you want to see the MC die, play Legendary. If you want to see MC finish the fight, play Halo 3. If you want to see MC finish the fight by dieing, why did you waste six years when you could have done it yourself right now?

☼►Popular Fusion - Doing anything, everything, and then some.◄☼

Grade 2: Moderate Weapons

This will be the most common among the widest selection of maps. As I've said, larger maps can feature lesser grade weapons for filler so that will mean grade 1 weapons.


Human Primary: Assault Rifle

Ahh, now we've stumbled upon it. One of the most discussed weapons on the site. Under my new set of weapons, this new AR is meant to compete with Grade 2 weaponry. Ultimately, the only thing different I want between the new and old AR is in its burst fire capability. Even though this weapon is so widely discussed, the burst fire ability is almost completely overlooked. What is this, exactly? It's when you fire one or a few shots, pause for a split second, and fire again. This actually increases your accuracy at longer ranges dramatically. I've been able to take out the snipers on Sierra 117 off in the distance as the pelican get bombarded by Banshees using only a half a mag per kill. ON LEGENDARY MIND YOU!

So, what is it I would like to change? I guess I would increase the strength of burst fire bullets. I'm not entirely sure what this will do to balance but the theme I'm going for is an overhaul of our current weapons strengths so I'm going to stick with it.



Elite Primary: Needler

This is a great weapon now and will work just fine under grade 2 as is, except I want to bring back the ability to be duel-wieldable. I realize the weapon was rebalanced to not be duel-wieldable, but it ultimately won't be much of a problem if it was duel-wieldable, even with another Needler even though it'll take less time to kill your target. What this allows is more flexibility. You could carry a Needler and SMG for you duel-wield and keep another weapon for a different purpose or save your power weapon for a heavy job for later. If you can kill your target with a Needler, you'll use it, and it alone. Not both together. You have two triggers, remember?



Brute Primary: Brute Shot

I think it should take 3 shots to kill. 2 to kill the shields and the last one to finish off your target. 1 shot to melee will still be deadly.



Human Snipe: Battle Rifle

As you've been reading, nothing is going to change with this weapon. Other weapons are just being powered up to compete with it.



Covenant Snipe: Carbine

The Battle Rifle can remain a stronger weapon then this. I've no problem with that. There should be some sort of advantage the Carbine should have though. What if the Carbine didn't have to aim ahead of its target at longer range as you have to with the Battle Rifle. In other words, a faster projectile.



Human Close: Shotgun

Taking a step back for a second. Let's take a look at what I've been saying this whole time, about Halo 3 being over saturated with purely close range weapons only good in their range. We have a whole messload of duel-wield weapons only good in close range. On top of that, 2 melee weapons and 2 shotguns acting more like melee weapons.

The new Shotgun will be more effective at longer ranges. Ultimately, I want the new Shotgun to be more effective then the new Assault Rifle in all fields and ranges. Everything else about it stays the same. I think you'll be surprised how little will change in the average firefight and how much the average player will enjoy this.



Elite Close: Energy Sword

You might be noticing a pattern here, but I want the Energy Sword to be duel-wieldable for the exact same reasons the Needler will be duel-wieldable. I hope I didn't catch you by surprise with this one.

Also, I think the amount of power used to kill should change. It just doesn't make sense to me that killing a Grunt takes just as much as everything else does. This should be a weapon that can last longer and slaughter a larger amount of enemies.

What if killing a non-shielded opponent only costs 2 energy points while killing a shielded one costs 8 more points for a total of 10? It could potentially add a little more strategy in coupling with the ability to be duel-wieldable, if only a very tiny adjustment.

In terms of petty differences. If your killing a super powered enemy (with overshields or whatever) and they manage to survive losing their shields, you'll still lose 8 points and your next hit will cost 2 points.



Brute Close: Gravity Hammer

ALRIGHTY THEN!!! In my opinion, the Gravity Hammer was the worst of the shotties and melee weapons, at least in multiplayer. I don't understand why it was, because it could have potentially been much more powerful. Some examples. Why does it swing slower then an Energy sword and lunge the same way the sword does? It's like I was saying about Plasma weapons to Brute weapons. It tried to measure up to an already nerfed game mechanic.

It will no longer lunge at its target and the kill range of the gravity attack will exceed the range of the current Shotgun, and weaken anybody at longer ranges, sending a wave of energy forward knocking targets off their feet but doing slim damage.



Grade 3: Specialty Weapons

This weapon set is built from the ground up to exceed the strength of the Battle Rifle. Why? Because it's the starting weapon of this set. This set is meant to be used purely on mid to super large maps



Human Primary: Battle Rifle

We've already discussed this one.



Elite Primary: Carbine

This one too.



Brute Primary: Sentinel Beam

Standard officially broken! Heh, heh. I know it says Brute Primary, but I gotta put this somewhere. There is nothing changing about this weapon, it's just being actually added to multiplayer. It IS, after all, more powerful then the Battle Rifle which is saying a lot and is no wonder it is out of current matchmaking.

Ahh what the hell. From here on, the weapons you see below are not changing.

Human Snipe: Sniper Rifle

Covenant Snipe: Beam Rifle

Human Close: Spartan Laser

Elite Close: Rocket Launcher

Brute Close: Fuel Rod Cannon

I'm excited to see what you guys have to say when you finish reading THIS one. Ought to be very interesting.

  • 08.04.2009 6:03 PM PDT

Verbose, as usual.

I'm not sure what you're suggesting here... What is the point of the different weapon sets? Do I get to choose which one I start out with like in Gears of War? Is it going to be Class Based like the Battlefield series? Are you clumping the weapons into more recognizable tears for the purposes of laying out the multi-player maps?

What I did understand clearly was your concern for the lack of variety in weapon usage throughout Halo 3, specifically the lack of dual wielding. If the guys from BUNGiE want dual wielding to actually work as part of gameplay, they've got to do a few things -and I draw these from my extreme fondness of dual wielding from Halo 2, and my complete distaste for it in Halo 3.

They've gotta Nerf the Melee. I can't tell you the number of times I've used the Plasma Rifle/SMG on narrows or The Pit and had a guy with an AR run straight through a solid stream of tiny bullets and superheated plasma and just melee me to death. This is just about half of the reason I don't dual wield in a match.

They absolutely have got to get rid of the way the weapons suddenly do less damage because you're holding two of them. When the damage all of a sudden, is magically reduced like this, I
I'm far better off throwing a grenade and shooting the guy with a regular two handed weapon. It would be much more enjoyable for the recoil of dual wield weapons or their inherent negative characteristics to compound when they're fired in tandem.

They've got to give each style of weapon a purpose. I'll use the Plasma Rifle, SMG, Spiker since they are very similar weapons, as an example.
***When I see a human weapon, like the SMG I'd expect it to be a bullet hose which is somewhat weak against shielded targets, but be pretty strong against armor and flesh, and I expect the bullets to travel through the air relatively quickly. I also expect the weapon to climb from the recoil of the weapon when I shoot it, and it expect it to be somewhat less accurate than an assault rifle.
***I expect the Plasma Rifle to... just. melt. everything. (Except the armor on vehicles.) In exchange, I wouldn't mind if I had to watch the heat very closely as I was using it. I also believe the fiction that it could be the least accurate of the three weapons I'm talking about here -and by a considerable margin. I expect to have a reasonable amount of skill involved in leading the shots, as the plasma travels slowly through the air.
***I expect the Spiker to deal slight damage to shields, while simultaneously doing slight damage to a player's base health underneath, with a cool perk of being pretty effective at damaging vehicles when they stray too close. I think the rate of fire and the projectile speed is believable, but I think the clip size is entirely too generous.

When each weapon is both strong in its on right as a stand alone weapon, has a specific tactical value, and believable drawbacks which can stack when fired simultaneously, you've got weapons which players want to pick up for certain situations and ones which can be creatively gimped so they're not overpowered.

As you suggest, they should let us holster a pair of dual wield weapons. His leg armor looks identical on both legs, so why can't we holster an SMG on each side? As a balance to this, only two-handed weapons like the Shotgun, BR, and Rockets can be stashed on your back, and dual wield weapons are only stashed on your legs. When you change weapons, the AR goes on your back, and you pull out your SMG and Magnum combo. When you change weapons again, the SMG and Magnum goes back to your legs, and you pull out your AR. They've just got to make sure that it takes ages to reload any weapons with clip based delivery of the projectiles.

When a player throws a grenade, there should be a slight delay while the grenade hand weapon is stashed. This could easily be shown in the animation of the grenade throw.

For melees, the effect of the melee is defendant upon the weapon being held in your right hand. If you have a Spiker, or a Plasma Rifle (something sharp or heavy, in other words) in your right hand, you'd just melee them with that, but at reduced damage because you're the same force as if you used two hands on a shotgun. If you're using something with a strange shape like the SMG, or something fragile like the Plasma Rifle, you'd drop whatever is in your off hand, and punch the guy with a closed fist, a la the oddball. (i imagine that with the strength of your weapon set at 100% of the combined damage of the two weapons, you won't be throwing too many punches anyway. )

At least that's how I'd do it.

  • 08.04.2009 7:59 PM PDT
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i think all this single shot is garbage the BR should be full auto, 3 burst, or single whatever you would like all with their resulting problems full auto results in less accuracy (maybe actually add significant recoil to the BR) it is supposed to have a larger caliber than the AR. and on that topic do away with the crappy AR or make it better.

  • 08.04.2009 8:09 PM PDT

If you want to see the MC die, play Legendary. If you want to see MC finish the fight, play Halo 3. If you want to see MC finish the fight by dieing, why did you waste six years when you could have done it yourself right now?

☼►Popular Fusion - Doing anything, everything, and then some.◄☼

Holy heck, how'd this get thrown back to page 4?

Posted by: StormyHeart
Are you clumping the weapons into more recognizable tears for the purposes of laying out the multi-player maps?

That's right, but think about it. We already do this. On larger maps, the only weapons worth using are the BR and power weapons. Everything else will just put you at a disadvantage.

I can see you pretty much agree with me dead on about duel-wielding.

As for effects of weapons, I wasn't really covering this, but what you're saying would be great. It terms of sound, the Plasma Rifle should the sound similar to what it does now, but with a low pitch purr as the plasma flies through the air. That'd make it a lot more scary sounding. The AR would be great if it sounded more like it did in the original Halo. The Spiker already has great sound to it but from point blank sounds bland and boring. If you move back and hear the popping of the spikes leaving the chamber, it sounds cool. I think that sound should be more pronounced in close range.

As for your adaptations to the weapons; being able to damage through shields and plasma burning over time, it could be good. But it's not what I was going for.

As for limiting the player to two duel-wieldable weapons only, I disagree. We can swap the weapons on our back but we can't swap the weapons in our holsters?

When a player throws a grenade, there should be a slight delay while the grenade hand weapon is stashed. This could easily be shown in the animation of the grenade throw.

Uhh... what? Not sure what you're trying to say here. Is it a visual thing or will it effect gameplay?

I actually think it might be a good idea lowering the strength of melees while duel-wielding. It would seriously mix up gameplay and encourage people using duel-wield to stick to superior firepower.

Posted by: DrShokalooslion
i think all this single shot is garbage the BR should be full auto, 3 burst, or single whatever you would like all with their resulting problems full auto results in less accuracy (maybe actually add significant recoil to the BR) it is supposed to have a larger caliber than the AR. and on that topic do away with the crappy AR or make it better.

That's what I want the AR to be like, with the exception of the headshots feature. Burst fire will do more damage per bullet but you won't be pumping out as much firepower that way. It won't be as effective as a BR but it'll catch somebody with their back turned.

[Edited on 08.05.2009 12:03 PM PDT]

  • 08.05.2009 12:01 PM PDT

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
$.50 in store credit.

There is one thing here i find to be a major flaw: The close range rank 2 weapons. You want teh shotgun to be more effective than the AR at all ranges? That seems very overpowered. Then you want the garav hammer to kill at tha same range as the shotgun? If i understand you right, a grav hammer will kill anyone at an AR's range. On top of that, a Grav hammer has an explosive blast. It is not just a straight line, but a whole area, and anyone in that dies. It also weakens people outside of that area?

Making the sword dual wieldable doesnt make much sense to me. It is a melee weapon, and you want to make melees not effect duals negatively. So basically i can carry an SMGin one hand and have an instant kill melee lunge weapon in the other. Way too overpowered at close quarters.

  • 08.05.2009 12:44 PM PDT
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Well, duel weilding plasma swords should have a advantage over weilding one, for a first, weilding just one means when you attack someone, you only deplete their shields, or simply damaging them by a significant amount. Duel weilding the swords on the other hand, will allow you to kill a normal shielded opponent in one attack, at the cost of energy depletion for both swords.

One more thing, for an idea of a new power weapon, bring the Sentinel Major Beam into Reach, besides being a somewhat stylish sentinel weapon with a blue beam, it is powerful, but it overheats alot faster than a regualar sentinel beam, but it can kill effectively, as long as it is aimed carefully, it works favorably as a mid range weapon, although it can also work long range as well.

  • 08.05.2009 1:25 PM PDT
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i'd prefer a tweeking to the gameplay. i don't want to own three copies of halo 3 when all i said and done. create completely new weapons (well, older considering the time frame) since it involves more than one spartan, make the hud actually useful for more than just kill info and ammo count. pop smoke! create classes (they all had different strengths)!

  • 08.05.2009 1:40 PM PDT