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Subject: Let's truly separate rating and rank. A rank system proposal.

No matter how many times I forget about this place, I always get dragged back.

I'm more than okay with that.

Trueskill is a beautiful thing. It allows us to be matched up with those of our own skill to provide a fair playing field for everyone. Trueskill is a rank.

Experience Points are also great. They give other people a quick overview of the time we have spent playing; the hours we pour into the matchmaking playlists. XP is a rating.

In Halo 3's ranking system your rating was also determined by your Trueskill, however. No matter how many hours you logged into Matchmaking, your Trueskill held you back from achieving more. You would stagnate eventually.

To keep Trueskill intact, but to allow players to keep achieving more without having to be super-serious in Ranked matches, I propose we keep Trueskill visible, but let XP independently determine our rating.

The rankings system would be akin to Halo 2's. I have no idea how it worked, but if you were a 50, you were amazing. Ranks were legitimately hard to get, and they were, in fact, an indicator of true skill. When you popped open your friends list, you didn't see a military insignia, you saw a number. And you knew just how good they were based on that number.

Halo 3's XP system wasn't so much a fair judge of time played, seeing as it was only a number of wins, and contributed less to your rating. I'm only a Major Grade 3, but I've been playing since release date.

The new XP system would allow for more rewards based on everything you do in the game. Kills would give XP. Assists would give XP. Flags captured, seconds with the skull and territories controlled would give you XP. People punched, faces sniped, and rampages recorded - you guessed it - give you XP.

Betrayals, of course, make you lose XP.

It's a very CoD-esque or Vegas 2-like system that would allow people to keep rising up the ratings ladder while still remaining lower in the ranks. Rank and rating would be presented side-by-side to give a player one glance to judge skill and time played.

Here's what the rank/rating system would look like.

Ranks
Ranks would be a standard Trueskill measure from 1 to 50, like Halo 2 and Halo 3.
Not much explanation needed.

Ratings
Halo 3's Playlist Ratings are very akin to the rating system I propose for Reach.
But now, XP thresholds are higher due to the number of events that award XP.

A possible event hierarchy could look like this:
Kills - 5 XP
Assists - 1 XP
Flags Captured - 10 XP
Flag Carriers Stopped - 5 XP (in addition to the 5 for a regular kill)
Oddball Seconds - 1 XP per second
Oddball Carrier Kill - 5 XP (in addition to the 5 for a regular kill)
Bomb Armed - 1 XP
Bomb Planted - 5 XP
Bomb Detonated - 10 XP
Bomb Carrier Stopped - 5 XP (in addition to the 5 for a regular kill)
Hill Control Points - 1 XP per point
Kill from inside Hill - 5 XP bonus
Kill on Hill controller - 5 XP bonus
Territory Capture - 5 XP
Kill while inside own Territory - 5 XP bonus
Kill on someone who is inside their territory/capturing yours - 5 XP bonus
Juggernaut Takedown - 5 XP bonus
Kill as Juggernaut - 5 XP bonus
VIP Takedown - 5 XP bonus
Kill as VIP - 5 XP bonus
Last Man Standing Bonus - 5 XP

Headshot Kill Bonus - 1 XP
Beatdown Kill Bonus - 1 XP
Assassination Kill Bonus - 1 XP
Sticky Kill Bonus - 1 XP
Splatter Kill Bonus - 1 XP
Laser Kill Bonus - 1 XP
Kill from the Grave Bonus - 1 XP
Spree Bonus - 1 XP, plus 1 extra XP for each spree level
- e.g. Spree = 2 (1+1), Frenzy = 3 (1+2), Riot = 4(1+3), etc.
Multikill Bonus - XP equal to that of the highest multikill achieved
- e.g. If you get an Overkill you get a total of 4 XP. You DO NOT get 2+3+4. Multikill XP does not stack.

Quitting Penalty is -50 XP in Social, -100 in Ranked.
Betrayal Penalty is -10 XP for each person betrayed in Social, -20 per friendly frag in Ranked.
Lag-outs and Disconnects would not receive penalty unless the system detects you do this often within a span of games, or if your total disconnects equals an abnormally high number. At that point, disconnects would cost you half the penalty of quitting, just in case you have an abnormally bad connection. This can be revised as needed.

Possible Rating List:
Recruit - 25 XP
Apprentice 1 - 75 XP
Apprentice 2 - 125 XP
Private 1 - 200 XP
Private 2 - 275 XP
Corporal 1 - 375 XP
Corporal 2 - 475 XP
Sergeant 1 - 625 XP
Sergeant 2 - 775 XP
Sergeant 3 - 925 XP
Gunnery Sgt 1 - 1100 XP
Gunnery Sgt 2 - 1275 XP
Gunnery Sgt 3 - 1450 XP
Gunnery Sgt 4 - 1650 XP
Lieutenant 1 - 1850 XP
Lieutenant 2 - 2050 XP
Lieutenant 3 - 2300 XP
Lieutenant 4 - 2550 XP
Captain 1 - 2850 XP
Captain 2 - 3150 XP
Captain 3 - 3450 XP
Captain 4 - 3800 XP
Major 1 - 4200 XP
Major 2 - 4600 XP
Major 3 - 5000 XP
Major 4 - 5450 XP
Commander 1 - 5900 XP
Commander 2 - 6350 XP
Commander 3 - 6800 XP
Commander 4 - 7250 XP
Colonel 1 - 7750 XP
Colonel 2 - 8250 XP
Colonel 3 - 8800 XP
Colonel 4 - 9350 XP
Brigadier 1 - 9950 XP
Brigadier 2 - 10550 XP
Brigadier 3 - 11150 XP
Brigadier 4 - 11800 XP
General 1 - 12550 XP
General 2 - 14000 XP
General 3 - 15750 XP
General 4 - 17500 XP
General 5 - 25000 XP

The math behind it is probably flawed bacause I'm tired, but if anyone has a better suggestion, post it.

Now, how will this rank and rating appear on our service record? Will we be showing our Global Rank our our Global Rating? The answer is both. A service record will show, whether in-game or on here, a large number indicating highest Trueskill rank, and a large emblem showing rating. This way we can get an idea, in one glance, at how long a person has played, and how skilled a person is.

This is all I have for now. If you want to complain about China missing their wall, I already signed a deal with the Chinese for partial use of the Great Wall in the form of text.





[Edited on 08.06.2009 7:17 PM PDT]

  • 08.04.2009 10:37 PM PDT

Here’s what Luke had to say about the differences in treatment between the Spartans and Elites in Reach:

“Instead of piece-by-piece customization like the Spartans, Elite customization is a full model swap with models selected from the various Elite classes appearing throughout the Campaign. There are all kinds of reasons for this, not the least of which is our continued emphasis on the Spartan as your identity in Reach.”

I appreciate the desire for the Halo 2 system, but i don't think any game that uses Matchmaking will have a system different than Trueskill.

  • 08.04.2009 10:39 PM PDT

No matter how many times I forget about this place, I always get dragged back.

I'm more than okay with that.

Posted by: Uncle Kulikov
I appreciate the desire for the Halo 2 system, but i don't think any game that uses Matchmaking will have a system different than Trueskill.


Halo 2 wasn't a form of Trueskill?

EDIT: Albeit an old one?

Also, what do you think about the grand scheme of things if we just went with Halo 3 Trueskill?

[Edited on 08.04.2009 10:42 PM PDT]

  • 08.04.2009 10:41 PM PDT

Beware the smiley face! =D

Great idea. Theres only two things from CoD i want in Reach really, nothing else (I'm not going to pay money for Call of Halo..)

They are PRESET classes, and XP for kills and stuff. I like Halo a lot more than CoD but the Halo ranking system is flawed.

Also, you shouldn't lose XP for leaving a game by lost connection or leaving when you are lagging.

  • 08.04.2009 10:47 PM PDT

No matter how many times I forget about this place, I always get dragged back.

I'm more than okay with that.

Posted by: Rammal94
Great idea. Theres only two things from CoD i want in Reach really, nothing else (I'm not going to pay money for Call of Halo..)

They are PRESET classes, and XP for kills and stuff. I like Halo a lot more than CoD but the Halo ranking system is flawed.

Also, you shouldn't lose XP for leaving a game by lost connection or leaving when you are lagging.


Classes I don't agree with, mostly because Halo has earned its multiplayer reputation because of its style, more akin to Quake than to Battlefield. It's why I love Halo multiplayer, and always end up coming back for more.

I do, however, thank you for backing me up on the XP thing. Do you think with the XP system I outlined that the XP ratings would be too hard or easy to attain? (This isn't just for Rammal, that's a question for all of you)

[Edited on 08.04.2009 11:40 PM PDT]

  • 08.04.2009 11:40 PM PDT

Rank increase = Win Streak/Old Rank/2

  • 08.05.2009 1:45 AM PDT

"You got 2 years of cl1t deepening you mean?"
"Uh. Wut?"
"..."
"Do you know what a cl1t is, dear?"
"LAWL SO SIGGING THIS -blam!-!"

Very, very nice ideas posted there. I agree with the lot of it. I love the RSV2 XP system because if you see an Elite playing you know they have had alot of experience with the game etc and either know what they are doing, or have just played for a very long time.

Hope this is implememnted in Reach.


~haloscout

  • 08.05.2009 2:08 AM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

Iam enjoying Halo Reach and revisiting some past Bungie games, iam a big fan of Bungie and their online community.

Thats a nice lloking idea.

  • 08.05.2009 2:31 AM PDT

No matter how many times I forget about this place, I always get dragged back.

I'm more than okay with that.

Posted by: mixtertrix
Very, very nice ideas posted there. I agree with the lot of it. I love the RSV2 XP system because if you see an Elite playing you know they have had alot of experience with the game etc and either know what they are doing, or have just played for a very long time.

Hope this is implememnted in Reach.


~haloscout


Exactly. I'm an Elite in Vegas 2 and I consider myself to be pretty decent at the game. But then you look at a Gold Elite 44, and you think "Damn, they've been playing for a while. And they're definitely not bad." So for Reach, rather than tying your rating to Trueskill, your experience in the game will still rise and you will still be seen as a veteran or better player but you won't have to pour your entire life into Ranked playlists to do so.

  • 08.05.2009 1:43 PM PDT

No matter how many times I forget about this place, I always get dragged back.

I'm more than okay with that.

Posted by: Tipaa
Rank increase = Win Streak/Old Rank/2


Are you saying this is how it should be? Or is this a system already in use?

  • 08.05.2009 4:04 PM PDT

No. Skill makes it so that a genreal grade 3 is acualy good, and not somone who just plays halo 24/7 and has no life but somhow is still bad at the game.

  • 08.05.2009 4:12 PM PDT
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so basically cod4s ranking system?

  • 08.05.2009 4:12 PM PDT

No matter how many times I forget about this place, I always get dragged back.

I'm more than okay with that.

Posted by: cpage4
No. Skill makes it so that a genreal grade 3 is acualy good, and not somone who just plays halo 24/7 and has no life but somhow is still bad at the game.


That's why I want to separate them. Rank stagnation is a bad thing, it drives people away when they feel they are stuck and can go no further, often because they can't stand the competitive nature of ranked, but still like to feel they are playing towards something.

With this system Generals will be veterans, but 50s will be skilled. Right now in Halo 3 Generals aren't always good, and 50s haven't always been playing forever. This system will give a truer indication of skill by number, and hours logged by rating.

  • 08.05.2009 11:35 PM PDT

No matter how many times I forget about this place, I always get dragged back.

I'm more than okay with that.

Posted by: kruse93
That's a nice looking idea.


Thank you. Also FTFY, but not in a mean way.

  • 08.06.2009 12:20 PM PDT
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As much as I love CoD, I DO like the ranking system. However the only reason I DO like it, is because when I'm tired or with friends that just plain suck, my rank stays where it's at no matter how bad my friends suck. But on Halo, I lose friends because they're not good at SWAT and can't keep up with the people I get matched with. In turn, we just eventually stop talking for a bit until we eventually meet up in a custom. SWAT is my favorite playlist, but I have no friends that I can "boost" nor give them some proper playing experience. All I can do is tell them what to do and what to expect when/if you get to a higher rank. Personally, It's not the ranking system I have a hard time believing.. It's the boosters that -blam!- the True Recruits and flood doubles. I'm SICK and TIRED of having to face a major with a 50 in more than 2-3 playlists! I'm tired of all playlists for ranked because when I DO have the chance to play ranked with friends, because they're major grade 3's, we get Mr Major with 2-3 50's. Please BUNGIE, LISTEN TO THIS MAN AND WHAT HE HAS TO SAY. You're hireing? Why not just give this damn kid a bonus up front for signing his name on a damn paper. If you don't get him soon, It sounds like CoD's Infinity ward could take him off your hands.

The only thing I like about having the ranking system we have now is that it makes it a complete challenge. You're always interested in being the best. But again, stated before, It's hard to even find a fair match now adays...

  • 08.06.2009 12:32 PM PDT

No matter how many times I forget about this place, I always get dragged back.

I'm more than okay with that.

Posted by: munkybreast
As much as I love CoD, I DO like the ranking system. However the only reason I DO like it, is because when I'm tired or with friends that just plain suck, my rank stays where it's at no matter how bad my friends suck. But on Halo, I lose friends because they're not good at SWAT and can't keep up with the people I get matched with. In turn, we just eventually stop talking for a bit until we eventually meet up in a custom. SWAT is my favorite playlist, but I have no friends that I can "boost" nor give them some proper playing experience. All I can do is tell them what to do and what to expect when/if you get to a higher rank. Personally, It's not the ranking system I have a hard time believing.. It's the boosters that -blam!- the True Recruits and flood doubles. I'm SICK and TIRED of having to face a major with a 50 in more than 2-3 playlists! I'm tired of all playlists for ranked because when I DO have the chance to play ranked with friends, because they're major grade 3's, we get Mr Major with 2-3 50's. Please BUNGIE, LISTEN TO THIS MAN AND WHAT HE HAS TO SAY. You're hireing? Why not just give this damn kid a bonus up front for signing his name on a damn paper. If you don't get him soon, It sounds like CoD's Infinity ward could take him off your hands.

The only thing I like about having the ranking system we have now is that it makes it a complete challenge. You're always interested in being the best. But again, stated before, It's hard to even find a fair match now adays...


Thanks. I only wish I could get into the game design business, but not without some proper schooling first.

With my system, rank would be a complete challenge that all could see, but rating would be something you could constantly work at if social is your thing.

Example of Service Records:
Ranked Halo Is My Life
Rank 50 [] 5 Star General

I Mostly Play Social
Rank 21 [] 5 Star General

These two players, as you can see, are veterans, but the top player pours more time and effort into ranked, while the bottom one plays more social. And since playing ranked will also increase XP, you'll likely never see this:

I Made This Account Yesterday
Rank 50 [] Recruit

Rating is the benefit of playing matchmaking in general, but Rank would be the benefit of playing Ranked (with a side benefit of Rating.)

  • 08.06.2009 1:12 PM PDT

s3x on the flag

Sounds good OP. Let's make it happen.

  • 08.06.2009 1:24 PM PDT

Character Artist -- Electronic Arts

Skill should be invisible to players.
It does nothing more than cause aggro.
You get 50's who suck at the game, and 50's who are complete jerks.

Let there be rank, but make it about in game goals and accomplishments.
Second accounters also ruin the experience. Remove the motivations of boosting and second accounting.

Give incentives to participate in the community. Special stuff for taking pictures, film clips, community interaction.

A combat profile that was more than games played, EXP, and Skill would be greatly appreciated.

  • 08.06.2009 1:37 PM PDT
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good idea, i likw the idea of being able to see both exp AND skill levels, that wayy we know who has no life and no job with no future, and people who are half decent.

  • 08.06.2009 3:00 PM PDT
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I totally agree, I like the way you laid down your ideas, there is a lot of potential.

  • 08.06.2009 3:17 PM PDT

Click Here to watch me and AuRoRa's first ever Dualtage!

I truly hope some sort of Bungie employee takes notice of this thread. I love your idea much more than what the Halo 3 system is actually. I have a few things to add though.

Quitting: -100xp
No bonus for beat down, it's just too easy
If you win the match: 50xp maybe
lose: -50 or -25xp? Or no xp gain at all

Honestly, I think this is so much better since it actually takes into account the in-game stats, and doesn't give you xp for getting carried by your teammates, and you still have trueskill, which is good.

Love the idea! I REALLY hope they check this thread out man!

  • 08.06.2009 3:38 PM PDT

No matter how many times I forget about this place, I always get dragged back.

I'm more than okay with that.

Posted by: Notafinga
I truly hope some sort of Bungie employee takes notice of this thread. I love your idea much more than what the Halo 3 system is actually. I have a few things to add though.

Let's hear it.

Quitting: -100xp
Agreed.

No bonus for beat down, it's just too easy
Not if the melee lunge is removed, and melee damage decreased.

If you win the match: 50xp maybe
Possibly.

lose: -50 or -25xp? Or no xp gain at all
No XP gain. Losing is not something that should be penalized, you should just get no reward.


Honestly, I think this is so much better since it actually takes into account the in-game stats, and doesn't give you xp for getting carried by your teammates, and you still have trueskill, which is good.

Love the idea! I REALLY hope they check this thread out man!

Thanks. I would hope so too, but they're busy people probably dealing with other, more pressing matters. I just want to get my opinion out there - who knows what'll happen?

[Edited on 08.06.2009 6:10 PM PDT]

  • 08.06.2009 6:10 PM PDT

Here’s what Luke had to say about the differences in treatment between the Spartans and Elites in Reach:

“Instead of piece-by-piece customization like the Spartans, Elite customization is a full model swap with models selected from the various Elite classes appearing throughout the Campaign. There are all kinds of reasons for this, not the least of which is our continued emphasis on the Spartan as your identity in Reach.”

I definitely appreciate the point system in Gears of War 2, where you get points for damage you deal, kills, etc. Expanding that for all medals and objectives would be nice.

But I want these points applied to a non-trueskill rank, like the playlist specific ranks.

Edit:
Quitting/Disconnecting still needs a penalty. Teamkilling also needs a serious penalty.

[Edited on 08.06.2009 6:50 PM PDT]

  • 08.06.2009 6:49 PM PDT

No matter how many times I forget about this place, I always get dragged back.

I'm more than okay with that.

Posted by: Uncle Kulikov
But I want these points applied to a non-trueskill rank, like the playlist specific ranks.


That's what this system would achieve. Global Ratings would work like the Playlist Ratings we have now, where XP is the only factor - though a decidedly different XP system. Trueskill would remain for each playlist, and be visible alongside global rating.

  • 08.06.2009 7:12 PM PDT

No matter how many times I forget about this place, I always get dragged back.

I'm more than okay with that.

Posted by: Uncle Kulikov
Edit:
Quitting/Disconnecting still needs a penalty. Teamkilling also needs a serious penalty.


Fixed this in the OP - also divided penalties by Ranked and Social. Social penalties should be severe, but less. Seeing as it's still, well, social gaming.

  • 08.06.2009 7:15 PM PDT

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