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Subject: Forge: Lighting, FX, and natural objects.

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Posted by: mubox47
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From what i've heard, Reach will be Bungie's last Halo game. If that is true, Reach will need a lot of re-playability if people are going to play it for a long time. a major part fo this is forge. Many people think forge needs more objects, paint, AI controlled NPCs, and other things to be able to really "make" maps, instead of just stacking blocks. I think all it needs is lighting, FX, and some natural scenery.

Forgers can already make almost anything with the objects they've been given. an issue, however, is that the maps always look the same. A warehouse filled with boxes, or some ruins in a desert. Lights, FX, and natural objects could be used to add much more originality to a map, so instead of a fortress being set in a desert, it could be in a forest or bog.

Lighting
Sandbox came with two new useful objects, the red and blue lights. These lights can be used to mark bases and areas as a specific team's. Lights could also have other uses. If we had a "Clear Light" we could light up dark areas without marking it as a certain team's. Other colors could be used to mark areas for more than just Red and Blue.

Light, Clear
This would be a plain light. it would make ares brighter without marking it as a certain team's base or building.

Light, Colored
This would be just like the Red and Blur lights in sandbox. It could be used for marking bases and locations, and for giving maps a better appearance. The improvements would justbe more colors, such as yellow, purple, green, pink, or orange.

Shadow Ball
This would do the opposite of a light, clear. It would be used to make areas look darker.

Re-sizable Lights
Forgers could do much more with lights if thy were re-sizable. That way you could make a light bigger or smaller to fit the size of the are you want to light up.

FX
The FX we currently have can be used for making pictures and maps. Gloomy, Juicy, Colorblind and Old timey can all be used to give a map more of a setting. There are other FX that i think could be added, and they too would be re-sizable

Fog
Fog would be used to create a smokey effect in a map. It would be re-sizable, so you could make it only in certain rooms, or only waist high. This would be very useful in making maps feel and look original.

Snow
Im not sure how possible weather effects are. I played a computer game where effects like this caused massive lag. However, i have seen some shooter games where it works out fine, so i think it would work in the right amount. Snow, obviously, would be used to amke snow appear on the map. I dont know if re-sizing would be possible.

Rain
same as snow. It would be a weather effect used to create rain.

Water
Water would also be a re-sizable effect. It could also be tipped, to make it appear to be a waterfall.

War sounds
I noticed on Ghost Town you can hear guns and explosions in the distance. Sound effects are great or setting a map's theme. War Sounds would be the sound of Explosions and gunfire.

Machinery Sounds
Machinery sounds would sound like being in a factory.

Wind sounds
this one seems pretty obvious. It would make it sound very windy.

Screams and Thunder suggested by Wolverfrog.

Screams
Screams would basically be screaming. It could be used to make maps seem much scarier, and would be great for infection maps.

Thunder
Thunder would be loud thunder noises. It could be used in effect with the wind and rain effects to make a map seem like a storm.

Animal sounds, suggested by ramenloverninja.

Animal Sounds
Animal sounds would make a forest or woodland map seem much more realistic. It could have effects such as birds chirping. A variety of animal effects (i.e. Jungle Animal, Desert Animal, Mountain Animal) could be added to give the right sound to every map.

Those are just a few examples of Sound FX. Post ideas and i will add them.

Natural Objects
Natural objects would be used to make a map seem less like a player made map. Trees, rocks, bushes, water, and other things could be added to make a map seem more natural.

Stones
Stones would come in two sizes. Small Stones would be about the size of a crouched spartan, large stones would be larger, but still small enough to jump onto.

Boulders
Boulders would be much larger then stones. They would be to high to jump on, and could be used to make walls and structures.

Soft Collision stones Suggested by SS_Crow.
If i understand him correctly, these would be stones that are solid, but their edges merge with other objects, similar to the doors in foundry.

Trees
Trees could come in multiple shapes and sizes. There could be trees like the ones at Isolation and High Ground you can stand in, and some that are just used for scenery.

Bushes
Small bushes would be tiny little plants used mainly for scenery. Large Bushes would conceal a crouched spartan and could be used to change the game play of a map.

Cars
Cars would be used like the Trucks on foundry. They are jut pieces of cover, but can be placed to make a map look more like a city, or like a destroyed city.

Buildings Suggested by purew4rrior.
These would be full building that could be placed in maps. They could come in multiple forms, such as Small, Tall, Long, huge.

Machinima Objects Suggested by purew4rrior.
These would be scenery objects made to make a map look better, but dont reall effect game play. Things like computers, telephones, and other common objects that make a map seem real. They would be great for Machinimas.

Suggested by Debo37

Retexturing would be the big one - in fact, I think it would work best as one of those aforementioned Effects. Apply a Respawn Area-esque "Grass" object to your map, and all of the default map geometry within the area is retextured to be Grass. Perhaps there could even be a Forgeable object whose texture responded to these effects - for instance, a perfectly cubic "blank block" would respond to the texture of its environment, and in this case would become textured with the Grass texture due to the object's influence. There could only realistically be a few of these textures - idiots would overlap different textures. Unless, of course, textures were given a Spawn Order setting that allowed for overlapping textures. The lower the Spawn Order number, the higher the priority is that that texture be rendered. Bungie could force the game to assign subsequent Spawn Order numbers to each texture object spawned - that way the game wouldn't conflict with itself when trying to render overlapped Texture Areas.

The other thing I would like to see is a Forgeable elastic barrier. Because we will likely be unable to construct maps from scratch (as others couldn't join the game without having downloaded the map being played which would severely limit the accessibility of the Forge), I would like to be able to insure that players stay within the confines of my map. You see it all too often with enclosed Sandbox maps, specifically in the Crypt or on the Ground Floor - they're built high enough that players can't easily escape, but the Forger doesn't have enough resources for a roof so they remain open at the top and therefore escapable. For true map-making freedom, the ability to confine players within the map would be of paramount importance - maps' layouts would become far more organic and unique.


Suggest new Lights, FX, and scenery and i'll add it to the list.

[Edited on 08.06.2009 8:45 AM PDT]

  • 08.05.2009 12:01 PM PDT

7even is Darker

Would the light balls just brighten the area or brighten it and make objects cast shadows?

  • 08.05.2009 12:06 PM PDT

Another few good sounds could be screams, for an infection game, and thunder, for when it is raining.

  • 08.05.2009 12:11 PM PDT

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Posted by: mubox47
$.50 in store credit.

Posted by: CP0 Fraser
Would the light balls just brighten the area or brighten it and make objects cast shadows?
If it was incredibly realistic, it would create shadows. however, that could be an iss with lighting indor areas, because the light wouldnt pass through walls. It probably would not make shadows. If a player wanted shadows, he/she could re-size shadow balls to fit the correct area.

  • 08.05.2009 12:13 PM PDT

Character Artist -- Electronic Arts

Everything except for the Water would be very possible.

As far as the light objects. hopefully the Reach Around Engine has more realtime lighting on physics objects.

If they could compute rough lightmaps on the fly while loading the maps. The greatest visual flaw of Forge is that it was never intended as a level builder.

  • 08.05.2009 12:15 PM PDT

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
$.50 in store credit.

Posted by: SS_Crow
Everything except for the Water would be very possible.

As far as the light objects. hopefully the Reach Around Engine has more realtime lighting on physics objects.

If they could compute rough lightmaps on the fly while loading the maps. The greatest visual flaw of Forge is that it was never intended as a level builder.
The water does seem very unlikely, especially if motion was to be added and it could be tipped to make a waterfall.

Yes, because it was intended to be an editor instead of a full out creator, it was a bit lacking for what players wanted to do with it. I think Bungie will make it incredible if Forge is in Reach, because they now know what it can be used for.


Wolverfrog, i added your suggestions.

  • 08.05.2009 12:23 PM PDT

I love this idea. Mostly I want more scenery that actually sets a scene, but damn, I like all of the FX ideas.

  • 08.05.2009 12:26 PM PDT

water and trees may be hard to do....well the trees couldn't have roots i guess =P

[Edited on 08.05.2009 12:33 PM PDT]

  • 08.05.2009 12:32 PM PDT

Voilà!In view,a humble vaudevillian veteran,cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of Fate.This visage, no mere veneer of vanity,is a vestige of the vox populi,now vacant, vanished.However,this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation,stands vivified and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin van-guarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition.

I like trees, can we put animals in the trees like the butterflies in vahalla or squirrels and maybe for a sound FX for animals

  • 08.05.2009 12:37 PM PDT
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great ideas




you deserve the biggest cookie in the world :D

  • 08.05.2009 12:38 PM PDT

I hope we can just have a map editor like Far Cry 2s.

We don't need over 40000 objects or textures. But something like 100-200 objects would be great. And being able to physically create our own environments would be amazing. The biggest thing is being able to geomerge on the spot without glitching.

[Edited on 08.05.2009 12:45 PM PDT]

  • 08.05.2009 12:44 PM PDT

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
$.50 in store credit.

Posted by: ramenloverninja
I like trees, can we put animals in the trees like the butterflies in vahalla or squirrels and maybe for a sound FX for animals
Animals would be cool but i doubt Bungie will add them. Im adding animal Sounds to the list.

  • 08.05.2009 12:46 PM PDT

Voilà!In view,a humble vaudevillian veteran,cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of Fate.This visage, no mere veneer of vanity,is a vestige of the vox populi,now vacant, vanished.However,this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation,stands vivified and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin van-guarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition.

Posted by: TW InKoGnIto
I hope we can just have a map editor like Far Cry 2s.

We don't need over 40000 objects or textures. But something like 100-200 objects would be great. And being able to physically create our own environments would be amazing. The biggest thing is being able to geomerge on the spot without glitching.

yes but we be in moniter mode

[Edited on 08.05.2009 12:49 PM PDT]

  • 08.05.2009 12:48 PM PDT

Gamertag: Vengeance304

The FXs sound awesome.

[Edited on 08.05.2009 12:49 PM PDT]

  • 08.05.2009 12:48 PM PDT

what about whole buildings there could be like 10 designs not anything too fancy just something to save time.

  • 08.05.2009 12:50 PM PDT

Also, making our monitor solid was a bad move. It doesn't allow us a lot of freedom, and really restricts our movements.

Posted by: ramenloverninja
Posted by: TW InKoGnIto
I hope we can just have a map editor like Far Cry 2s.

We don't need over 40000 objects or textures. But something like 100-200 objects would be great. And being able to physically create our own environments would be amazing. The biggest thing is being able to geomerge on the spot without glitching.

yes but we be in moniter mode

  • 08.05.2009 12:52 PM PDT

Character Artist -- Electronic Arts

More than anything.
Large rocks with soft collision would be a great addition.

  • 08.05.2009 12:55 PM PDT
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Twitter.
WyIdfyre: 'lol, who the hell would even wear those?'
AuSam: 'lol, who the hell would even have sex with dogs?'

-K-

TW is right,
A map creator like Far Cry 2.
That was the perfect plan, think of the possibilities with that, Reach would never lose its playability, especially if AI placement came into it, and infinite objects, making our own campains, Bungie would have really made the perfect game.
A place for my creativity to run riot,
Thats what I need.
-K-

  • 08.05.2009 12:55 PM PDT

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
$.50 in store credit.

Soft collision?

  • 08.05.2009 12:56 PM PDT

Character Artist -- Electronic Arts

Posted by: The EAKLE
Soft collision?

Basically its separate collision mesh for the level geometry and everyone else.
It allows you to place an entity that clips through the level geometry.

Buttered Toast, if you will.

  • 08.05.2009 1:00 PM PDT

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
$.50 in store credit.

Posted by: SS_Crow
Posted by: The EAKLE
Soft collision?

Basically its separate collision mesh for the level geometry and everyone else.
It allows you to place an entity that clips through the level geometry.

Buttered Toast, if you will.
Like the doors on foundry?

  • 08.05.2009 1:02 PM PDT

Want to see advanced Halo stats not offered by other Halo stat websites? Check out MetaHalo.com, the stats website I am working on. Reach stats currently in development.

Like BTB? Check out bigteambattle.net!

I would absolutely love Reach's Forge to be like FC2's editor. The possibilities for custom maps... makes me extremely wishful.

  • 08.05.2009 1:05 PM PDT
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Heaven Won't Take Us and Hell Is Afraid We'll Take Over -USMC

OP you are full of win.This is the greatest idea for forge in a long time why because not only is it cool its also possible unlike other posts i have seen.You deserve some real credit for this :) and i hope its in reach

  • 08.05.2009 1:10 PM PDT

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Posted by: mubox47
$.50 in store credit.

Posted by: purew4rrior
what about whole buildings there could be like 10 designs not anything too fancy just something to save time.
I was thinking about that. It would be very cool, but much less customizable. Haunted manor is a great example of what can be built in forge. He used walls and boxes to make a full house with multiple rooms. If he wanted, the author could have made it entirely differently. Using only set building objects would not allow for that. Just my two cents. I'll add it to the list.

  • 08.05.2009 1:13 PM PDT

Srry lol i just keep coming up with new ideas.

Stuff that you might find useful in machinima like a phone/computer/well theres a lot more

[Edited on 08.05.2009 1:35 PM PDT]

  • 08.05.2009 1:32 PM PDT

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