Halo: Reach Forum
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Subject: No visible ranks or skill levels, please

Hi I'm RT and I like to argue!

Visible ranks are a status symbol and something to be proud of, when earned. Of course, not everyone can earn a 50 and many resort to pathetic means to achieve it, be it boosting or cheating or some other form of manipulating the system. It's obvious from Halo 3 that detecting and banning every single network manipulator or booster from the matchmaking population is a near-impossible feat. So I propose that Halo Reach have no visible ranks like Halo 3 does and instead only track perhaps EXP or win/loss or something like that that is less likely to be cheated for. TrueSkill strikes me as a fine system for matching players, but keep it transparent to the user.

tl;dr -- ranks are the reason for cheating. Remove ranks; stop the cheating.

  • 08.11.2009 4:30 PM PDT

Already posted this.

  • 08.11.2009 4:33 PM PDT
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Works for me. However, I know that many people play Halo (whether legitimately or not) for the ranks, so Bungie would be losing a great deal of players. With nothing to aspire to, many would quit much sooner than they would if there was the rank of general waiting for them at the top. It's the same thing as having Recon and Bungie Faves in the game. People will try harder to make better maps, variants, films, and screenshots if they have a reason to do it.

  • 08.11.2009 4:39 PM PDT

Warning: You may find that my, or someone else's opinion does not comply with yours. Side effects of disagreement may include (but are not limited to): flaming, irrational behavior, broken keyboards, and/or nervous sweats. If you experience any of these symptoms refrain from communicating with others until the symptoms have subsided.

This has been covered. Most people believe that only you should be able to see your rank.

  • 08.11.2009 4:46 PM PDT

The WorkPLace

Posted by: FALSE R3ALITYx
And Cobravert is absolutely correct.

Posted by: Der Todesengel
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth and Cobra."
- Der

Nice thought, but I really don't think it will stop cheating.
It's Halo. There are going to be stats somewhere online whether it be on b.net or somewhere else. Those who have to cheat to make themselves feel good about themselves will ever change. If you play Monopoly against family members who habitually cheat (bank robbers), are you going to mandate that they can't use the monopoly money? Cheaters will always cheat. That is who they are. Take away all the things that give them a reason to want to cheat, then you have an either very boring or over policed game.

  • 08.11.2009 4:46 PM PDT

Hi I'm RT and I like to argue!

Posted by: Lethal Hate
Already posted this.
*throws laptop*

-blam!-

  • 08.11.2009 4:49 PM PDT

Nothing is better than gaming through the day, into the night, then back into the day. It's like when you finally push that power button you feel like you've accomplished nothing, but at the same time, you can't stop smiling.

You have a very valid point OP, I never really thought of it that way. But if you take away ranks, then the people who care about leveling up and getting a high rank probably won't play the MP a year or two after release. Take the COD4 ranking system for example. When you prestige, you lose all your weapons and perks. You want to get all those weapons and perks back, so you play the game even more. If the prestige feature wasn't in COD4, less people would be playing the MP right now. When you look at it this way it makes ranking systems seem less of a way for players to feel they have achieved something and more of a way to prolong a games life.

[Edited on 08.11.2009 4:53 PM PDT]

  • 08.11.2009 4:51 PM PDT

What Use Are Cartridges in Battle? I carry Chocolate Instead!-Vladimir Zero Tod
____(˜˜˜||˜˜˜˜||˜˜˜˜˜)_?______
--------____.`=====.-.~:________\___|================[oo]
|_|||___/___/_/~```|_|_|_|``(o)----------<)

I definitely agree with you because most people with their 50's unlike me, cheat and boost to get respect that think they will be given for whoo-hoo a Skill Level in a video game, I am so amazed!

  • 08.11.2009 4:55 PM PDT
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the ranking system is the only reason I play halo...
I have to play game battles for call of duty 4 in order to have a competitive rank.
I'm hoping that ALL FPS game fallow suit and adapt a similar ranking system to halo 3... I find an EXP based ranking system unfufilling.

  • 08.11.2009 5:02 PM PDT

Sounds good to me, make it happen Bungie.

  • 08.11.2009 5:18 PM PDT

I don't want to join your group.

"In science one tries to tell people, in such a way as to be understood by everyone, something that no one ever knew before. But in poetry, it's the exact opposite." - Paul Dirac

Posted by: App L Sawz
Most people believe that only you should be able to see your rank.

This is the solution that I like best. Ranks are fun goals, and I would like it if I could see my own rank as an indicator of progress. However, there are many bad things (and hardly any good, honestly) about being able to see other peoples' ranks. Hide other people's ranks in-game. Hell, hide them on the stat-pages too (i.e. you would have to be logged in to a user's account to see their rank).

  • 08.11.2009 5:33 PM PDT
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Posted by: DK daze
Dude I don't care and my grammer is perfect.I used "Big", as you recall it to mak is specific."to not do...",is incorrect beause "do" is present tense/perfect(or future) when it was a past tense.

Posted by: RighteousTyrant
Visible ranks are a status symbol and something to be proud of, when earned. Of course, not everyone can earn a 50 and many resort to pathetic means to achieve it, be it boosting or cheating or some other form of manipulating the system. It's obvious from Halo 3 that detecting and banning every single network manipulator or booster from the matchmaking population is a near-impossible feat. So I propose that Halo Reach have no visible ranks like Halo 3 does and instead only track perhaps EXP or win/loss or something like that that is less likely to be cheated for. TrueSkill strikes me as a fine system for matching players, but keep it transparent to the user.

tl;dr -- ranks are the reason for cheating. Remove ranks; stop the cheating.
This.

  • 08.11.2009 5:45 PM PDT
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Two important things to remember:
- Your character is a result of your conduct.
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Posted by: RighteousTyrant
Posted by: Lethal Hate
Already posted this.
*throws laptop*

-blam!-

This.

  • 08.11.2009 6:23 PM PDT
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Posted by: RighteousTyrant
Visible ranks are a status symbol and something to be proud of, when earned. Of course, not everyone can earn a 50 and many resort to pathetic means to achieve it, be it boosting or cheating or some other form of manipulating the system. It's obvious from Halo 3 that detecting and banning every single network manipulator or booster from the matchmaking population is a near-impossible feat. So I propose that Halo Reach have no visible ranks like Halo 3 does and instead only track perhaps EXP or win/loss or something like that that is less likely to be cheated for. TrueSkill strikes me as a fine system for matching players, but keep it transparent to the user.

tl;dr -- ranks are the reason for cheating. Remove ranks; stop the cheating.


So take away one of the only remaining things that makes me play matchmaking, Possibly THE only thing.

No.

I love bragging to my friends who cant get past 38, and im a 44. If there are no ranks, there will be no point in playing matchmaking, No No No No No. If you dont care about ranks, YOU SHOULDNT care about boosters?

[Edited on 08.11.2009 6:58 PM PDT]

  • 08.11.2009 6:57 PM PDT

Hi I'm RT and I like to argue!

Posted by: Vegie Mite
[quote]Posted by: RighteousTyrant
So take away one of the only remaining things that makes me play matchmaking, Possibly THE only thing.

No.

I love bragging to my friends who cant get past 38, and im a 44. If there are no ranks, there will be no point in playing matchmaking, No No No No No. If you dont care about ranks, YOU SHOULDNT care about boosters?
So you keep playing to brag about a rank that you already have? I'm confused.

I don't care about boosters, except when I match against them. The idea of the ranks is to match me against similarly skilled players, but that's impossible for the system to do when there's a group of 50s boosting accounts to sell on Ebay that are currently at my TrueSkill rank.

  • 08.11.2009 9:53 PM PDT

Waiting for Halo 3: ODST d[(oo)]T

I think you dont like ranks cuz your a commander grade 4 ...lololol

  • 08.11.2009 10:17 PM PDT

Average Joe

UCLA - Aerospace Engineering

Posted by: App L Sawz
This has been covered. Most people believe that only you should be able to see your rank.


I looked at my Halo Reach rank yesterday and it was a 10 Star General.

I kno rite?

  • 08.12.2009 12:20 AM PDT

I'll make your girl do backflips.
The WorkPLace

Sounds legit. Won't stop everyone from cheating but would be a factor. If you can only see your own rank, and not worry about other's, it takes away from that competition.

  • 08.12.2009 5:40 AM PDT

We're building a better world...all of them, better worlds.

I've been behind this idea for a long time. It's fairly obvious, given the typical Xbox Live audience, that if you put a number on someone that says he's better than someone else, he's going to flaunt it. It's a very real source of conflict.

However, I recognize its value. Multiplayer games in this generation have come to a point where they must offer players an incentive. Hard exp simply isn't enough because it essentially doesn't mean anything on any level. Players need a very real system to track progress. Perhaps Bungie could include some of the stat tracking that is already here on B.Net in the game. I don't want to see unlockables, but there has to be something for the player that augments his experience as he plays more and more.

Edit: And I love how we're a year out from the games launch, and people are already heckling others for repeat topics. Get over it.

[Edited on 08.12.2009 6:06 AM PDT]

  • 08.12.2009 6:04 AM PDT

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Posted by: SilentStorm20
Posted by: App L Sawz
Most people believe that only you should be able to see your rank.

This is the solution that I like best. Ranks are fun goals, and I would like it if I could see my own rank as an indicator of progress. However, there are many bad things (and hardly any good, honestly) about being able to see other peoples' ranks. Hide other people's ranks in-game. Hell, hide them on the stat-pages too (i.e. you would have to be logged in to a user's account to see their rank).
The only problem I see is that our innate competitive nature as human-beings will facilitate some resource for people to figure out how they can compare their stats to somebody else's . It will turn into one big cyber-pissing-contest. Not trying to be pessimistic, just realistic.

It's a good idea RT, and I'm all for it, but I don't think it would completely solve the problem.

  • 08.12.2009 6:08 AM PDT

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I have to agree with this. Not to compare Halo to other games, but many classic (and current) games do not have rank. Leaving everything in the background is a steller idea. It could also bring back the idea of playing a game for fun... you know, like we used to do.

Good thread RT.

  • 08.12.2009 6:17 AM PDT

RIP Logan ~B.B.

I think it would help prevent cheating and certainly influence the attitude of players playing this game. But, I aslo think that is why many people do play Halo as well. I guess I don't play too many other games these days, but to my knowledge, Halo is the only game where your visible rank can go down by losing. I think that is a pretty big draw to keep people playing so long after other games fade away. So really, I could be happy either way.

  • 08.12.2009 6:17 AM PDT

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I would love to have the option of hiding my own rank and service record.

  • 08.12.2009 6:17 AM PDT

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Posted by: MADMAN Redux
I've been behind this idea for a long time. It's fairly obvious, given the typical Xbox Live audience, that if you put a number on someone that says he's better than someone else, he's going to flaunt it. It's a very real source of conflict.
.....
.

Precisely.

  • 08.12.2009 6:21 AM PDT
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Posted by: The Stick 13
. . . It's a good idea RT, and I'm all for it, but I don't think it would completely solve the problem.
I don't think anything would ever completely solve the problem of people cheating. Everyone will eventually find something to brag about, and once they start bragging, people start cheating so they can brag too.

What I like about the suggestions is that it would make the cheaters target a mechanism in the game that isn't directly related to how even the matches are, the way it is now.

  • 08.12.2009 6:22 AM PDT

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