Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Poll [41 votes]: What type of level design would you like for Halo Reach?
  • Poll [41 votes]: What type of level design would you like for Halo Reach?
Subject: What type of level design would you like for Halo Reach?

Poll: What type of level design would you like for Halo Reach?  [closed]
I don't care:  0%
(0 Votes)
I like forge the way it is:  7%
(3 Votes)
Forge should have more tools like terrain and undo:  61%
(25 Votes)
I want forge on the computer with advanced control:  32%
(13 Votes)
Total Votes: 41

For Halo reach, assuming it is a First-Person-Shooter level type game, I believe that you should be able to model your level on the computer and then texture it to your liking. The only problems I can think of so far are; how much space would a custom model and texture take up? If it was alot I think bungie could but like a 8 megabyte size limit for the amount of memory the entire map would take. After modeling the level and creating your textures you would import it all into a program created separately that would be downloadable via the Internet and bungie.net. If the textures contained offensive content, that would have to be dealth with. If we were really lucky bungie could even give us access to switches and game physics potentially allowing us to mod the blam! out of it, instant endless replayability. Bungie could have a system where the most popular maps are considered into a community playlist. So many possibilities for this game, I hope they don't waste it.

Discuss. Will update with more ideas.

[Edited on 08.13.2009 7:16 PM PDT]

  • 08.13.2009 6:54 PM PDT

So it's basically a slightly easier version of the HEK?

  • 08.13.2009 7:08 PM PDT

I've never used HEK myself but I've heard that you build a 3d model of the level, so I assume they would be pretty similiar, so yeah, sure.

  • 08.13.2009 7:14 PM PDT

1200 Splatters and counting....

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UNSC Spartan Scout - Spartan 017

A level editor on a separate disc, that has several pre-made structures of varying themes (I.E human, covenant, forerunner) as well as the ability to create custom structures with the use of primitive models (squares, circles, triangles) and texturing capabilities (again, of vary themes/materials), with a model upload/sharing system.

Weather/Day and Night effects would be amazing, as well as the ability to place lighting fixtures (both modeled and unmodeled) dynamically with the map. Controlling natural features like caves, lakes and rivers would be cool, and the ability to add waterfalls to maps would be a nice addition to the editor.

Having the option of choosing skyboxes would be cool, as well as the direction of the celestial bodies that may be present if the skybox is for a space themed map.

Finally, primitive switches (like doors and bridges) would be fun to mess around with, and the ability to change the power and direction of man cannons/gram lifts would be awesome.

DLC such as Texture/Model/Skybox Packs would be a nice way for Bungie to make money (other than their map packs) and would allow the community to express themselves more. Such Editor Packs would only be needed to use said items in the editor, not in the actual multiplayer. This way, those that like to make maps (I'm sure nearly everyone would) would get them, whilst those who enjoy the matchmaking/customs only need to buy the normal map packs.

The reason it should be on a separate disc is to make room for Reach's Campaign, Multiplayer, and Theater Modes (and anything else that may be present on disc).

This way, people wouldn't need any high end computers to make levels. Also, it would allow bungie to remove the Budgets and make the maps only limited by memory space.

If only we could get someone important from bungie to see this thread.

[Edited on 08.13.2009 7:18 PM PDT]

  • 08.13.2009 7:17 PM PDT

Chunky_Lover's Average Joe Interview

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No moar Forerunner pl0x

  • 08.13.2009 7:18 PM PDT

Thanks for the extensive post, although the things you mentioned would be fantasic I can't think of any system bungie could use to make buildings and structures accurate and texturable without using a computer. What your saying expands the limits of forge, what I'm saying makes it limitless. (besides the memory limit)

  • 08.13.2009 7:23 PM PDT

1200 Splatters and counting....

Ranked top 150 in the world for Ranked Splatter medals on Halo Charts.

UNSC Spartan Scout - Spartan 017

Posted by: Xylom
Thanks for the extensive post, although the things you mentioned would be fantasic I can't think of any system bungie could use to make buildings and structures accurate and texturable without using a computer. What your saying expands the limits of forge, what I'm saying makes it limitless. (besides the memory limit)


Little Big Planet did it.

There's two problems with it being on a computer, the first is that not everyone has a high end computer to model and texture levels with (especially since we're talking Next-Gen graphics).

The second, is that viruses can easily planted into the level, and once uploaded, can do serious damage to consoles (which I believe happened early on with Halo 3). Considering you can't scan for viruses on your 360, it would be completely hidden.

  • 08.13.2009 7:35 PM PDT

I agree that the forge would be great with textures. Some truly terrific maps could be created and a community playlist also sounds awesome.
One thing I think would be cool is if you could hang off certain things and shoot. You'd just enter like a vehicle or turret but off a ledge. It would make it hard to find people if the spots were put on every ledge but a couple places here and there could make for some interesting gameplay.

  • 08.13.2009 8:05 PM PDT
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I want an import / export feature from a few CAD programs, 3ds, Sketchup, Auodesk maybe even blender.

  • 08.13.2009 9:02 PM PDT

I intend to live forever, or die trying,

so far, so good.

I have never done map building, other than Wolf 3D and Duke3D, but that was over 10 years ago. But I would be interested, in trying to create a Halo Map.

I have alot of idears, and I like Forge, but some things are just too tricky for Forge.

I would like to see other objects in Forge, like mini bases, that you could join multiple ones together to make a biger base.

  • 08.13.2009 9:14 PM PDT
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SQUEEBLE

I'd like an in-game map editor much like Far Cry 2s, only with the option to also edit on the computer.

Short of that, I'd love to see more practical Forge objects. Placable doors and other switches would be awesome, as well as an adjustable death barrier. Objects to change the skybox and time of day would be helpful as well.

I don't want to go on and on about all the things I'd love to see in Forge 2. The best way I can explain it would be a cross between Far Cry 2's editor, and Garrys Mod. Elements from both would bring about massive change to the engine and enable us to make much cleaner, more in-depth maps.

One last thought: Placable AI, Bodies, and Bipeds. Custom Single Player levels anyone?

Win.

EDIT: Oh I almost forgot...More gametype options! And allow us to set our own percentages/numbers please...I'm sick of the presets.

[Edited on 08.13.2009 9:34 PM PDT]

  • 08.13.2009 9:30 PM PDT

...I'm sick of the presets.

Quoted for truth.

  • 08.14.2009 2:47 AM PDT

A wise man once said, "Treat every stressful situation like a dog. If you can't eat it or hump it, piss on it and walk away."

Problem with 8 MB limit: most halo maps are over 30 MB's so yeah...

  • 08.14.2009 3:41 AM PDT
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Posted by: Time Glitch v2
I'd like an in-game map editor much like Far Cry 2s, only with the option to also edit on the computer.

Short of that, I'd love to see more practical Forge objects. Placable doors and other switches would be awesome, as well as an adjustable death barrier. Objects to change the skybox and time of day would be helpful as well.

I don't want to go on and on about all the things I'd love to see in Forge 2. The best way I can explain it would be a cross between Far Cry 2's editor, and Garrys Mod. Elements from both would bring about massive change to the engine and enable us to make much cleaner, more in-depth maps.

One last thought: Placable AI, Bodies, and Bipeds. Custom Single Player levels anyone?

Win.

EDIT: Oh I almost forgot...More gametype options! And allow us to set our own percentages/numbers please...I'm sick of the presets.


No offense Time Glitch, but I seriously think an advanced editor like Far Cry's will loose almost half of the forging community. There is a HUGE problem with flexibility and ease that people don't take into account. That problem is that when something is easy for EVERYONE to build then why put the time and effort into it yourself? The drive that you will find to build something will come from an innovative map design and layout rather than something that looks gorgeous. Over 60% of forgers build because they like to build what other people would have a hard time building and finding new ways to make cool looking objects.

If we had a 3D modeler for forge then it is over for over 75% of the forge community. Not everyone can 3D model and so they could get outclassed by those who do and feel helpless when they try to themselves so they end up quiting. Also where is the challenge in making a new cool looking object or structure? There is none, so there is less of a way to show off your creativity.

If we had a terrain editor like Far Cry, where would be the challenge in building a cool landscape? On Fary Cry building hills and stuff to reduce threat zones and what not isn't as impressive as seeing players build that into their maps on Halo. There's no challenge in building great terrain in Far Cry, unless you really understand level desing theory enough to optimize gameplay through terrain, and most of the forge community have not delved that far into things hence they will become disinterested.

Geomerging and interlocking are interesting skills, but they can go. Being able to make an object "transparent" should be accessible by a click of a button. This would allow it to be interlocked, geomerged, and when you let it go in "tranparency" it would float as well.

There is a lot of fun and challenge and a way to show off what you can do in Forge... that is what has kept the community alive so long and has kept it so big. People say "HEY LOOK WHAT I CAN MAKE WITH # LARGE, CORNERS AND # GOLD COLUMNS!!!". And other people wow at the structure and ponder how they can use it in their maps. Premade objects are the way to go and sandbox is a powerful step towards that. If you hadn't noticed with all the measurement faults on sandbox, one becomes creative to find something that will work while being smooth. Advanced level editors don't force you to be creative like that or think how to manipulate things to your advantage. It gives forge a sorta interactive feel that makes you keep coming back.

Now on top of that I personally think that Fixed Rotation is something that is needed in forge as well. This would go hand in hand with the "transparency" idea. You would be able to set the object to "transparent" set a rotation (say 45 degrees) then move it to where you want and let it go. Becuase it would be "transparent" it would interlock/geomerge/float to exactly where you put it. With this people could easily make things that they want while still keeping the creativity of forge.

Now another aspect that would keep the community together would be the ability to save a group of objects. Now the structure would then be available in a pallet and you could spawn that and place it anywhere as it's own object. That custom object would still contain X objects and cost X budget, but the whole point of the system would be to allow a sort of copy paste as well as to be able to show off structures you have created to friends. This could be extended by being able to share those structures like you would maps. YOu would have a set limit of custom structures on your HD that you can hold like say 64 since we are keeping with the power of 2 mindset... this would add a whole dimension into forge communities.

Just these few simple tricks will keep forge powerful and fun and appeal to most of the community. Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE an advanced editor. I suck at forge which is why I design on Sketchup and have people build it for me now. And advanced level editor would allow me to actually directly build maps instead of having to have someone forge them. Forging is a unique skill on it's own and that skill shouldn't be taken away. While allowing "transparency" removes a lot of the current skill, it will return things to creative skill like back in the pre-DLC times. That's when the greatest innovation was. No we are spoiled... lol.

Thank you bungie for your great work thus far and I hope you keep the new guy in mind when it comes to forge. Too simple will loose a lot of amateur level designers that have some great potential. And too hard and it will push away good level designers. To advanced and it will intimidate amateurs... Forge has been a great tool for the amateur level designer and a great test of skill for actual level designers. And I hope it stays that way... ooo and cool snap to object features would be great too... make it like google sketchup and I will be more than happy :)

Oh yeah and I agree with flexible gametype parameters... :) and undo is a great idea as well...



[Edited on 08.14.2009 3:43 AM PDT]

  • 08.14.2009 3:42 AM PDT

While I agree with AZN_FTW that Forge Mode has its own community and the simplistic editor for Halo 3 sparks innovation and creativity, I think Halo still need's an advanced editor. It would make for a lot funner, interesting maps. Even if the "advanced editor" is todays forge with added features such as snapping, axis rotation, copy/paste, grouping and the interesting transparency idea from AZN it would still be a lot better and should have been thought about for Halo 3. But I do like previously mentioned ideas about pre-built objects like lights, and other objects and structures but texturing isn't really necessary.

Another thing (or should I say a couple) that I would like to see in Forge is access to switches, triggers, physics points (fun things like gravity or speed or something interesting), maybe some AI bots that can be placed like spawn points. Maybe more spawn point options. And instead of Attack and Defender and then like, 3-8 have it the color of the team spawning there so to take the guess work out of it.

And as for the computer version (if they're going to make one) forge should still be implemented in that exact way but even if you make it advanced like terrain, buildings and texturing it won't matter because there will be modders that will take advantage of their skill in 3d anyway that they wont need an importer or something to use their models/textures ingame. So having these features will only make it easier and making the modding community have to think outside the box to create some really awesome mods. So there are a couple sides to this.. Find a balanced way to keep the Forge and modding communities or pick one or the other.

[Edited on 08.14.2009 4:10 AM PDT]

  • 08.14.2009 4:09 AM PDT