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Subject: Grittiness
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Posted by: Dasherr
I think this is a good direction for halo.

Gears of War suckk-blam!--blam!--blam!-ssssssssssss, I don't understand why anyone likes it(must be the hype) COD is a good game but it doesn't look any better then halo 3, it looks even crappier(Truthfully I didn't even like halo 3 that much).


God, I've just dealt with two idiots, now another?

Buddy, the last two guys I dealt with got banned.

  • 08.14.2009 11:28 PM PDT
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My new B.net account is Grizzled Ancient. If you see him, its me.

well i was playing gears of war a couple weeks ago, and i was like... we are all -blam!- ing screwed if this is are future... where is the -blam!- ing sundhine????

  • 08.14.2009 11:29 PM PDT
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Posted by: XMadIrishmanX
well i was playing gears of war a couple weeks ago, and i was like... we are all -blam!- ing screwed if this is are future... where is the -blam!- ing sundhine????


That was the point. To make you feel bleak and like there's nothing worth fighting for.

  • 08.14.2009 11:30 PM PDT

BannedG33K16
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There's not really supposed to be much happiness during the Fall of Reach. Their goddamn most prized planet next to Earth fell! Most Spartans died! It was humanity's biggest tragedy and defeat during the war against the Covenant. The game has to be dark and gritty!

But again, we still need a Halo feel. We can't have it Gears of War with the boring browns and grays. As I mentioned Half Life 2, they had a similar palette, but slightly duller. It was almost the exact same palette, but faded.

I do agree with some characters. I don't know exactly what can be done with Master Chief/Spartans other than update the graphics, but the Elites can certainly be made to look more intimidating. Firstly, they have to stop speaking English, seriously. They need to go back to their native tongue back from Halo CE. This made them immediately more intimidating.

It added a layer of mystery - making them more of an unknown invading force. If we focused on the Covenant a bit more as an invading force, rather than simply a rival enemy, I think that can certainly help. The big issue was the psychology behind our view on them - not the graphics or the mechanics of how they played.


*EDIT* Why was I quoted and then suddenly the guy started bashing Gears of War? I never said the game should actually be anything like Gears of War. I said the game should have an engine similar to Unreal Engine 3 and have a color palette close to Half Life 2. That's really nowhere near saying it should be like Gears.

Also, that picture was made shortly after Halo 2 was developed - possibly before Gears of War 1 was ever even in pre-production. I was only using it as a concept idea for graphics as far as color palette and lighting theme (dark tones).

[Edited on 08.14.2009 11:35 PM PDT]

  • 08.14.2009 11:30 PM PDT
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Posted by: Nj Pelli88
There's not really supposed to be much happiness during the Fall of Reach. Their goddamn most prized planet next to Earth fell! Most Spartans died! It was humanity's biggest tragedy and defeat during the war against the Covenant. The game has to be dark and gritty!

But again, we still need a Halo feel. We can't have it Gears of War with the boring browns and grays. As I mentioned Half Life 2, they had a similar palette, but slightly duller. It was almost the exact same palette, but faded.

I do agree with some characters. I don't know exactly what can be done with Master Chief/Spartans other than update the graphics, but the Elites can certainly be made to look more intimidating. Firstly, they have to stop speaking English, seriously. They need to go back to their native tongue back from Halo CE. This made them immediately more intimidating.

It added a layer of mystery - making them more of an unknown invading force. If we focused on the Covenant a bit more as an invading force, rather than simply a rival enemy, I think that can certainly help. The big issue was the psychology behind our view on them - not the graphics or the mechanics of how they played.


Slap some grit onto the Spartans, make their armor look beat up. And BAM! More grittiness.

The graphics personally made me feel like I wasn't fighting against anything significant. Just another colorful Elite or jumpy Grunt. I want to feel like these enemies will rip you limb from limb if they get too close.

  • 08.14.2009 11:33 PM PDT

BannedG33K16
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I think most of that can be addressed in what I've already stated... new color palette for the most part and the psychological aspect of the enemy. As far as a jumpy Grunt and such, that should be addressed in a little bit of A.I. and a little bit of physics. I think it goes without saying, if we're getting more grit, we're going to have some beat up armor... some dents, scratches, and etcetera.

I don't want them to change the enemies looks TOO much because then they are changing the game in a sense. If we're fighting Elites, then we're fighting Elites. You can't call something an Elite, but give us a hulking rhino with armor. That's no longer an Elite.

  • 08.14.2009 11:40 PM PDT

I wish I was still legendary.

Halo's always had a slightly cartoony feel. I would rather it not end up trying to be too realistic like CoD, or too gory/gritty like GoW - but would enjoy it having some degree more gore and grittiness. Gore being limited to decent blood stains and cracked visors when headshotted/ripped rubber parts of armour when shot (just a small tear, basically just a texture change in the approximate shot area).

I wrote something out a while ago with a wish list for enemy behaviours that was well recieved:

OLD STUFF:

more pronounced differences between species would be good though. Brutes that actually looked BRUTAL, in terms of armour and weaponry. Hunters where the worms actually moved. Elites that actually look dangerous and not like constantly smiling hunchback, split-lip lizards like in Halo 3.

Grunts with armour that actually looks plated on more, that sound more like how they were described in the books. They'd shuffle around and make a few less funny comments, with a slightly deeper pitch. They would be seen in situations OUTSIDE of standing behind an elite for no reason - maybe pre-defined animations for certain areas, like a grunt carrying a motion scanner or a couple scouting through some trees on their own.

Jackals that are actually scary, and somehow reflect their mercenary heritage - maybe they could have a belt or bandolier with grenades or an energy garrotte on it. I'm reasonably sure that as mercenaries, they must have weapons OTHER than the covenant plasma pistols and needlers as well...

Prophets that looked more sinister then they currently do, but still regal - for example, Truth didn't look evil as such in Halo 3. He just looked like another alien. they could have gaunter faces or something, I don't really know.

Drones that act like a proper hive mind rather then independent creatures, and have armour of sorts that looks more like natural plating - the shield generator thingies would have cracks and stuff around them, to look like they were placed into the armour by force.



/ideas about enemies

[Edited on 08.14.2009 11:42 PM PDT]

  • 08.14.2009 11:40 PM PDT
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Posted by: llamalizard
Halo's always had a slightly cartoony feel. I would rather it not end up trying to be too realistic like CoD, or too gory/gritty like GoW - but would enjoy it having some degree more gore and grittiness. Gore being limited to decent blood stains and cracked visors when headshotted/ripped rubber parts of armour when shot (just a small tear, basically just a texture change in the approximate shot area).


I think the most think I feel needs work are the characters. The characters have too much of a video game feel to them. And I agree, it should keep most of it's Halo-vibe, but I would also like it to get a little dirty. I mean, the enemies. They're just...not menacing. THIS is what I want.

Oh I don't care about the behaviors. I think when I said jumpy Grunts, I gave the wrong impression of what I was talking about.

[Edited on 08.14.2009 11:43 PM PDT]

  • 08.14.2009 11:42 PM PDT
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yeah, and when elites get shot in spots, there limbs blow up. like CoD 5.

  • 08.14.2009 11:43 PM PDT
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halo doesn't need to be gritty

if halo becomes gritty it'll just be another shooter set in a sea of shades of brown, green and black , (I'm looking at you Farcry2, Red Faction, CoD WaW, Cod MW, Resistance, Killzone, Fear, Fallout, Gears of War, Left For Dead, etc...)

not that it is necessarily a bad thing, it's just that these games for the most part don't really have their own visual distinctiveness


Halo's colorfulness is perfect, its bright and helps distinguish itself from the multitudes of generic, gritty FPSs

though you may be in luck, ODST looks darker than all previous games

  • 08.14.2009 11:44 PM PDT
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Posted by: XMadIrishmanX
yeah, and when elites get shot in spots, there limbs blow up. like CoD 5.


Now that's a bit much. I just want the atmosphere and look to be darker. Sure, add more gore, I actually want more gore, but within reason. Exploding heads and limbs may be a little much.

  • 08.14.2009 11:44 PM PDT
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Posted by: Carswell98
halo doesn't need to be gritty

if halo becomes gritty it'll just be another shooter set in a sea of shades of brown, green and black , (I'm looking at you Farcry2, Red Faction, CoD WaW, Cod MW, Resistance, Killzone, Fear, Fallout, Gears of War, Left For Dead, etc...)

not that it is necessarily a bad thing, it's just that these games for the most part don't really have their own visual distinctiveness


Halo's colorfulness is perfect, its bright and helps distinguish itself from the multitudes of generic, gritty FPSs

though you may be in luck, ODST looks darker than all previous games


I agree with you on the ODST look. They did some nice art work with that. I can just tell the game is much more sinister feeling. I mean stuff like that, but to a little bit more of an extreme.

  • 08.14.2009 11:45 PM PDT

I wish I was still legendary.

Posted by: GHOST REVOLVER
Posted by: llamalizard
Halo's always had a slightly cartoony feel. I would rather it not end up trying to be too realistic like CoD, or too gory/gritty like GoW - but would enjoy it having some degree more gore and grittiness. Gore being limited to decent blood stains and cracked visors when headshotted/ripped rubber parts of armour when shot (just a small tear, basically just a texture change in the approximate shot area).


I think the most think I feel needs work are the characters. The characters have too much of a video game feel to them. And I agree, it should keep most of it's Halo-vibe, but I would also like it to get a little dirty. I mean, the enemies. They're just...not menacing. THIS is what I want.


Read my above, edited post for my *personal* ideas on how they should look.

I have to say, I personally think that's far TOO real and menacing looking for Halo. If it were a touch less evil looking then that though...I mean, come on. That's like something out of a horror movie, not a slightly cartoonish video game. It looks like some sort of...well, to put it simply, a more dangerous locust.

  • 08.14.2009 11:45 PM PDT

Here’s what Luke had to say about the differences in treatment between the Spartans and Elites in Reach:

“Instead of piece-by-piece customization like the Spartans, Elite customization is a full model swap with models selected from the various Elite classes appearing throughout the Campaign. There are all kinds of reasons for this, not the least of which is our continued emphasis on the Spartan as your identity in Reach.”

Keep colors and brightness the same.

Adjust the lighting so its more like a heavily inked comic.

  • 08.14.2009 11:46 PM PDT

BannedG33K16
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I agree. Yes, Halo has always been to a degree cartoony, but you have to understand, that term today is getting a different meaning. Today, "cartoony" would be labeled under a game like "Mad World" for Wii. Obviously that is not Halo. Something cell shaded would be considered "cartoony".

Now Halo will start having difficulty distinguishing itself. The primary way to do this will be by maintaining their general color scheme by keeping it from going the same route such as Gears - all browns and grays... and by keeping the game from going down the same mechanics as Call of Duty - aiming down the sights and class-based systems.

I do agree we shouldn't add TOO much gore. It should be in some form of moderation. I would love to see cracked visors or plasma hissing and burning on armor... maybe even the armor melting away in certain controlled spots to the gel-layer. I would even like to see maybe a "puff" or quick burst of that purple or blue blood when you get a headshot on an Elite or melee him like you once did back in Halo CE.

  • 08.14.2009 11:47 PM PDT

There is no need to over do it like GoW. I mean, we don't need pools of blood, and gore does not make a game. The main thing that bugs me is that the colors are so vibrant.

Not that it needs to a gray monotone like in Terminator: Salvation, but it needs to be darker, more metallic, and less plastic.

Halo is currently like this

And it needs to be more like this.

  • 08.14.2009 11:50 PM PDT
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Posted by: Uncle Kulikov
Keep colors and brightness the same.

Adjust the lighting so its more like a heavily inked comic.


Yeah...you said that already.

Posted by: llamalizard
Posted by: GHOST REVOLVER
Posted by: llamalizard
Halo's always had a slightly cartoony feel. I would rather it not end up trying to be too realistic like CoD, or too gory/gritty like GoW - but would enjoy it having some degree more gore and grittiness. Gore being limited to decent blood stains and cracked visors when headshotted/ripped rubber parts of armour when shot (just a small tear, basically just a texture change in the approximate shot area).


I think the most think I feel needs work are the characters. The characters have too much of a video game feel to them. And I agree, it should keep most of it's Halo-vibe, but I would also like it to get a little dirty. I mean, the enemies. They're just...not menacing. THIS is what I want.


Read my above, edited post for my *personal* ideas on how they should look.

I have to say, I personally think that's far TOO real and menacing looking for Halo. If it were a touch less evil looking then that though...I mean, come on. That's like something out of a horror movie, not a slightly cartoonish video game. It looks like some sort of...well, to put it simply, a more dangerous locust.


I read them. And I like them a lot. But ARRGGHH I would just LOVE to see armor like that. It's just so...menacing! That's my level of grittiness I want to see. Keep the color palette, but update the models to look like that. IMO anyway.

  • 08.14.2009 11:50 PM PDT
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My new B.net account is Grizzled Ancient. If you see him, its me.

im not saying halo has to be dark. im just saying a SLIGHT change is needed. just to keep things intresting. and yes ODST will shake it up a bit

  • 08.14.2009 11:53 PM PDT
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Posted by: TW InKoGnIto
There is no need to over do it like GoW. I mean, we don't need pools of blood, and gore does not make a game. The main thing that bugs me is that the colors are so vibrant.

Not that it needs to a gray monotone like in Terminator: Salvation, but it needs to be darker, more metallic, and less plastic.

Halo is currently like this

And it needs to be more like this.


Combine that with some updated, more sinister looking characters, and bam! You have what I want.

  • 08.14.2009 11:53 PM PDT

jcf55

Ghost revolver is just a loser---

  • 08.14.2009 11:54 PM PDT

BannedG33K16
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I don't know. I think that might be a BIT extreme as well. Perhaps if they had something like that as a boss battle, but not as an often seen rank. I think that degree of menacing really is too much for Halo. I mean, this is a game that people are often dumbfounded of how it receives an M-rating.

  • 08.14.2009 11:55 PM PDT
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You can't kill what's dead.

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Posted by: jcf55
Ghost revolver is just a loser---


Little boy, are you lost?

  • 08.14.2009 11:56 PM PDT

I also want balanced weapons and a custom class system (Or a Halo 1 style game). But that ain't gonna happen.

Posted by: GHOST REVOLVER
Posted by: TW InKoGnIto
There is no need to over do it like GoW. I mean, we don't need pools of blood, and gore does not make a game. The main thing that bugs me is that the colors are so vibrant.

Not that it needs to a gray monotone like in Terminator: Salvation, but it needs to be darker, more metallic, and less plastic.

Halo is currently like this

And it needs to be more like this.


Combine that with some updated, more sinister looking characters, and bam! You have what I want.


[Edited on 08.14.2009 11:57 PM PDT]

  • 08.14.2009 11:56 PM PDT
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My new B.net account is Grizzled Ancient. If you see him, its me.

no u have custom classes you take away the advantage of getting things like the sniper first

  • 08.14.2009 11:59 PM PDT

But it makes map control more important, and it promotes team work, etc.

Do not post class stuff here, post in the thread I made so I can make a proper response.

Posted by: XMadIrishmanX
no u have custom classes you take away the advantage of getting things like the sniper first

  • 08.15.2009 12:00 AM PDT

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