Halo: Reach Forum
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Subject: Bungie, PLEASE cater to your hardcore crowd!

How to spell "space"?

S-P-ACE! SPACE!

Posted by: LordAustin16
Lol, more BR threads. The BR isn't a "hardcore weapon" people have only assumed so. If anything was a "Hardcore weapon" it would be the plasma pistol. THAT takes skill to kill people with.



/Thread.

(I see a flame war comming though....)


Good point. Kill someone with a PP, then that's skill.

Hardcore is just another word for "Too competitive".

  • 08.17.2009 4:20 PM PDT

"A Chain is Only as Strong as it's Weakest Link"

"You're not that bad...I'm just that good!"

Posted by: RStuck3
Flame ON

The battle rifle is the most over powered weapon in video game history

Flame OFF


WRONG!

^lol

It's actually the Needler though. THAT weapon is the most over powered weapon in video game history.

Oh and, GIVE IT UP! It's a VIDEO GAME...meant for FUN!!!!

  • 08.17.2009 4:42 PM PDT

I just want the game to be consistent, i mean nowadays i find the only weapon that will consistently register is the sniper, and there are even times when the sniper wont register even though you know you dome'd the guy.

  • 08.17.2009 4:49 PM PDT

Posted by; A random forum poster
Posted by; ghostvirus
This apple is brown, and rotten. This orange on the other hand, is in relatively average shape. So the orange is definitely the preferable option.
----------You can't compare apples and oranges. You're so dumb.

Posted by: D PALMERIZER
I just want the game to be consistent, i mean nowadays i find the only weapon that will consistently register is the sniper, and there are even times when the sniper wont register even though you know you dome'd the guy.


When the sniper doesn't register it is latency, or the bullet hit slightly to the right or left.

The Br is sometimes the same thing. But generally speaking, its because of bullet spread. The bullets spread more, the further they travel. The Br is not a single burst weapon. Aiming the reticule roughly over the head, isn't enough to get a fullfledged, "headshot". All three bullets must hit the head. Which means in most circumstances you have to not only aim for the head, but keep the center of your reticule, at the center of the enemies head. The problem is, people don't do that. They tend to treat the BR like a single burst weapon, and they get a fraction of the headshots they could.This is why, you end up getting far less headshots in a game, when you check the post-game stats then you would expect. This goes for everybody.And then they whine about the weapon being inconsistent. Because in one situation, they kill a guy with four shots, and in another it takes six or seven. The thing thats inconsistent is not the weapon. Its what part of the head your reticule is over when you shoot, its how far away you are.It works fine. It takes far more skill, and works far better for balances sake, than a single burst, non spread weapon would.

Beyond that, I can't think of one other weapon, that you could even begin to argue is inconsistent. At the end of the day, Halo is a video game. Weapon behaviour is programmed, weapons can't be random, they in and of themselves can't be inconsistent. The behaviour is consistent, the circumstances aren't. Inconsistency, in games, much like real life is always caused by something. In real life, perhaps its faulty manufactoring. Perhaps one bullet is ever so slightly heavier than another. There are plenty of other causes of inconsistency of weapons in real life.But in Halo, that doesn't exist. The only inconsistency that exists, is seperate from the weapons themselves. Weapon behaviour is static.



[Edited on 08.17.2009 5:28 PM PDT]

  • 08.17.2009 5:20 PM PDT

Kobe

Posted by: RStuck3
Flame ON

The battle rifle is the most over powered weapon in video game history

Flame OFF


LMFAO.. halo ce pistol was WAY more overpowered than the BR

  • 08.17.2009 5:21 PM PDT

Let thy be killed by my blade

Bungie has said before and will probably say again in the future they make games they want to play.

  • 08.17.2009 5:25 PM PDT

Second acct: RC Zerg Rushes

Posted by: bearhound
Posted by: RStuck3
Flame ON

The battle rifle is the most over powered weapon in video game history

Flame OFF


LMFAO.. halo ce pistol was WAY more overpowered than the BR


Actually neither weapon is overpowered. They both fufill the "medium to long range precision utility spawning weapon" spot in the Halo arsenal. The Halo CE pistol was actually perfectly balanced. Yes, it could kill someone in three shots, but I doubt anyone here could pull off a three-shot every single time. The weapon's skill gap meant that anyone could get a kill with it, but those who aimed better would get a kill much faster. The Halo 2 BR is not balanced due to the ridiculous auto-aim and bullet magnetism. The Halo 3 BR is not balanced due to the weapons inconsistencies (not talking about the BR spread, talking about shots actually registering) and the piss-poor network coding.

  • 08.18.2009 3:48 AM PDT

Second acct: RC Zerg Rushes

Posted by: ghostvirus
Posted by: D PALMERIZER
I just want the game to be consistent, i mean nowadays i find the only weapon that will consistently register is the sniper, and there are even times when the sniper wont register even though you know you dome'd the guy.


When the sniper doesn't register it is latency, or the bullet hit slightly to the right or left.

The Br is sometimes the same thing. But generally speaking, its because of bullet spread. The bullets spread more, the further they travel. The Br is not a single burst weapon. Aiming the reticule roughly over the head, isn't enough to get a fullfledged, "headshot". All three bullets must hit the head. Which means in most circumstances you have to not only aim for the head, but keep the center of your reticule, at the center of the enemies head. The problem is, people don't do that. They tend to treat the BR like a single burst weapon, and they get a fraction of the headshots they could.This is why, you end up getting far less headshots in a game, when you check the post-game stats then you would expect. This goes for everybody.And then they whine about the weapon being inconsistent. Because in one situation, they kill a guy with four shots, and in another it takes six or seven. The thing thats inconsistent is not the weapon. Its what part of the head your reticule is over when you shoot, its how far away you are.It works fine. It takes far more skill, and works far better for balances sake, than a single burst, non spread weapon would.

Beyond that, I can't think of one other weapon, that you could even begin to argue is inconsistent. At the end of the day, Halo is a video game. Weapon behaviour is programmed, weapons can't be random, they in and of themselves can't be inconsistent. The behaviour is consistent, the circumstances aren't. Inconsistency, in games, much like real life is always caused by something. In real life, perhaps its faulty manufactoring. Perhaps one bullet is ever so slightly heavier than another. There are plenty of other causes of inconsistency of weapons in real life.But in Halo, that doesn't exist. The only inconsistency that exists, is seperate from the weapons themselves. Weapon behaviour is static.



Part of consistency is good network coding. Halo 3 does not meet this requirement. I have seen my BR drop shots from about 30 feet away in a custom game on a non-moving target. I know my aim was not off, nor was I far enough away that the BR spread should have any effect. That shots dropped at that range comes down to poor coding.

  • 08.18.2009 3:51 AM PDT

Ninjabag the tea-pirates!

I don't want to join your group.

I think the game is pretty good as it is. Sure i get pissed off when i die and i believe that the person i was shooting should have died but they lagged, this annoyance only lasts about a match though.
The BR is a strong weapon but i guess it's the same for everyone, just grab one when you spawn it doesn't mean that other weapons are redundant as all weapons have a different purpose in different situations.

It's the same for everyone, get over it.

  • 08.18.2009 5:12 AM PDT
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Posted by: The 13th Arbiter
The Halo CE pistol was actually perfectly balanced. Yes, it could kill someone in three shots, but I doubt anyone here could pull off a three-shot every single time. The weapon's skill gap meant that anyone could get a kill with it, but those who aimed better would get a kill much faster. The Halo 2 BR is not balanced due to the ridiculous auto-aim and bullet magnetism. The Halo 3 BR is not balanced due to the weapons inconsistencies (not talking about the BR spread, talking about shots actually registering) and the piss-poor network coding.


You definitely are inexperienced with Halo CE tournaments or even playing on the same "competative" level you're also playing the proponent for. A skilled player could easily take out an opponent at close range with three headshots (or rather, the last shot of the three being a headshot), very consistently.

And you even highlight the problem with the weapon yourself, and don't even realize it--once a match comes down to whomever can aim with one weapon faster, almost all the other aspects of the game are thrown out the window. Competative players will default on the pistol, maybe grabbing a sniper or rocket launcher (though they're screwed with the rocket unless in close range) every now and then. They won't use any other weapon 90% of the time and will always be searching for one if they don't spawn with the gun, because they will literally be at the mercy of whomever does have one. You don't see a problem with this?

That ghost fella put it very well: the hardcore crowd doesn't want a more exciting Halo experience. In fact, they want a game with less dynamic play and a more toned down design. Personally I think this vocal hardcore crew, who apparently isn't all that hardcore anyways, is simply disappointed how being good at Halo 3 is so difficult.

  • 08.18.2009 8:38 AM PDT

""We meet again, young one. I am the last of those who gave you breath and shape and form, millions of years ago. I am the last of those your kind rose up and ruthlessly destroyed. And our answer is at hand."

Really, Just give us dedicated servers.

  • 08.18.2009 9:36 AM PDT

Second acct: RC Zerg Rushes

Posted by: Opuelast
Posted by: The 13th Arbiter
The Halo CE pistol was actually perfectly balanced. Yes, it could kill someone in three shots, but I doubt anyone here could pull off a three-shot every single time. The weapon's skill gap meant that anyone could get a kill with it, but those who aimed better would get a kill much faster. The Halo 2 BR is not balanced due to the ridiculous auto-aim and bullet magnetism. The Halo 3 BR is not balanced due to the weapons inconsistencies (not talking about the BR spread, talking about shots actually registering) and the piss-poor network coding.


You definitely are inexperienced with Halo CE tournaments or even playing on the same "competative" level you're also playing the proponent for. A skilled player could easily take out an opponent at close range with three headshots (or rather, the last shot of the three being a headshot), very consistently.

And you even highlight the problem with the weapon yourself, and don't even realize it--once a match comes down to whomever can aim with one weapon faster, almost all the other aspects of the game are thrown out the window. Competative players will default on the pistol, maybe grabbing a sniper or rocket launcher (though they're screwed with the rocket unless in close range) every now and then. They won't use any other weapon 90% of the time and will always be searching for one if they don't spawn with the gun, because they will literally be at the mercy of whomever does have one. You don't see a problem with this?

That ghost fella put it very well: the hardcore crowd doesn't want a more exciting Halo experience. In fact, they want a game with less dynamic play and a more toned down design. Personally I think this vocal hardcore crew, who apparently isn't all that hardcore anyways, is simply disappointed how being good at Halo 3 is so difficult.



I never said I had no experience with the hardcore scene. I've been to several LANs that were full of competitive people I'd been playing CS and UT with for years and placed well there. What I was trying to say was that the M6D was an effective weapon even for an unskilled user, because it could kill in 5 body-shots.

  • 08.18.2009 10:39 AM PDT

Andrew Murray
Map:Aztec-Keep
Screenshot:ghosts
Video:32/0 Perfection

Posted by: ghostvirus
Posted by: D PALMERIZER
I just want the game to be consistent, i mean nowadays i find the only weapon that will consistently register is the sniper, and there are even times when the sniper wont register even though you know you dome'd the guy.


When the sniper doesn't register it is latency, or the bullet hit slightly to the right or left.

The Br is sometimes the same thing. But generally speaking, its because of bullet spread. The bullets spread more, the further they travel. The Br is not a single burst weapon. Aiming the reticule roughly over the head, isn't enough to get a fullfledged, "headshot". All three bullets must hit the head. Which means in most circumstances you have to not only aim for the head, but keep the center of your reticule, at the center of the enemies head. The problem is, people don't do that. They tend to treat the BR like a single burst weapon, and they get a fraction of the headshots they could.This is why, you end up getting far less headshots in a game, when you check the post-game stats then you would expect. This goes for everybody.And then they whine about the weapon being inconsistent. Because in one situation, they kill a guy with four shots, and in another it takes six or seven. The thing thats inconsistent is not the weapon. Its what part of the head your reticule is over when you shoot, its how far away you are.It works fine. It takes far more skill, and works far better for balances sake, than a single burst, non spread weapon would.

Beyond that, I can't think of one other weapon, that you could even begin to argue is inconsistent. At the end of the day, Halo is a video game. Weapon behaviour is programmed, weapons can't be random, they in and of themselves can't be inconsistent. The behaviour is consistent, the circumstances aren't. Inconsistency, in games, much like real life is always caused by something. In real life, perhaps its faulty manufactoring. Perhaps one bullet is ever so slightly heavier than another. There are plenty of other causes of inconsistency of weapons in real life.But in Halo, that doesn't exist. The only inconsistency that exists, is seperate from the weapons themselves. Weapon behaviour is static.



well said GOSTVIRUS

  • 08.18.2009 10:42 AM PDT
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arent those called ranked playlists?

  • 08.18.2009 10:44 AM PDT
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¤º°¨„ø¤º°¨° º¤ø„¸¨°º¤ø„¸ ; ¸„ º¤ø„¸
¨°º¤ø„ METALLİCA FOREVER!!!!º¤ø„¸
¸„ø¤º°¨¸„ø¤º ; „¸¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ ¸„ø¤ from U.S.A.

http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/newmombasa/Group/GroupHome.aspx

it takes more skill to 8-shot with a carbine and its faster than 4-shotting

  • 08.18.2009 10:56 AM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: The BS Police
Posted by: TheUseless0ne
Bungie caters to no one.
They cater to the casual players who don't care about the campaign mode


Based on the last two titles, I am inclined to agree.

But something that several fail to realise is the reason the BR is clamored for by the "competitive" gamer. It has nothing to do with how "skillfull" of a weapon it is, it has all to do with how sadly easy it is to use. Add to that the fact that it promotes spawn camping and trapping like Joe Camel promotes smoking and you have a winner.

Somewhere along the line, "competitive" gaming became nothing more than sitting on your firing lane and waiting for someone to cross your sights, and strafe fire contests. I'm sorry but that is boring.

The OP wants the game to cater to the "competitive" scene, I too have a request, make the game actually require some skill and not hinge on the overuse of a single weapon.

[Edited on 08.18.2009 11:15 AM PDT]

  • 08.18.2009 11:08 AM PDT

Challenge me to a Hawaiian Punch chugging contest. I dare you.


Posted by: mubox47
$.50 in store credit.

There are multiple BR only playlists, a playlist dedicated to a Hardcore group (MLG), a section of matchmaking was titled Hardcore, and even some DEXPs are ranked. . .

You're right. Bungie needs the game to be catered even more to the "Hardcore" players than it is now.

  • 08.18.2009 11:10 AM PDT
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  • Exalted Mythic Member
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Join the Sphere

Read about my gaming here.

So, a starting weapon should be good at short, medium and long range? I wonder why there are other weapons...

  • 08.18.2009 11:18 AM PDT
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Look what happened to Halo 3...no.
Bungie needs to take out all the stupid equipment that is plain out annoying and unbalanced.
They need to make Reach have the best and most in depth campaign yet. They need a multiplayer close to that of Halo 2. Why? Halo 2 was equally balanced between casual gaming and hardcore gaming. Duel wielding was actually a part of the game and the beatdown system was good...unlike halo 3. Make it like Halo 2 but better and then everyone will be happy.

Edit: They also either need to replace the BR or make it weaker, especially in close quarters. Let's be realistic here and not act like a 5 year old who can't live without the BR. I use the BR but I also switch it up depending on the situation. Bungie needs to make that a bigger part of Reach(being forced to switch weapons).

[Edited on 08.18.2009 11:35 AM PDT]

  • 08.18.2009 11:32 AM PDT

Leave out multiplayer, thats what I want.

  • 08.18.2009 11:51 AM PDT

Posted by: RStuck3
Flame ON

The battle rifle is the most over powered weapon in video game history

Flame OFF


More so than the mega death pistol of Combat Evolved?
I didn't think so.

  • 08.18.2009 12:04 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: BlitzBladeX
Posted by: RStuck3
Flame ON

The battle rifle is the most over powered weapon in video game history

Flame OFF


More so than the mega death pistol of Combat Evolved?
I didn't think so.


The pistol was far less effective at closer ranges than the BR is. Not to mention the pistol required a little more of a practiced hand to work consistently. The BR spread pattern makes it a lot easier to weild.

The BR's balance issues stem from the fact that it is very effective outside of it's intended range, which is mid. I will certainly agree that a pistol should never have been as effective as the CE pistol was, but they should have simply reskinned it as a single shot rifle instead of giving us the mess that is the BR.

  • 08.18.2009 12:09 PM PDT
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Posted by: BlitzBladeX
Posted by: RStuck3
Flame ON

The battle rifle is the most over powered weapon in video game history

Flame OFF


More so than the mega death pistol of Combat Evolved?
I didn't think so.


The pistol was competing with versatile weapons. The BR has no competition aside from power weapons.

  • 08.18.2009 12:10 PM PDT

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