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Subject: Bring back the SMG starts please

Now before we start I would like to make 3 things blindingly clear
1.This thread is about a scoped SMG, as seen in ODST, which requires skill to use. I don't want to return to the spray and pray tactics of H2.
2.This isn't an anti BR thread, the BR is an excellent weapon and probably one of the most interesting to use. Even if a SMG spawn was implemented, MLG playlists would still have a BR start.
3.This isn't and anti AR thread either, the AR is also an excellent weapon. When used properly it takes nearly as much skill to use as a BR and is not a noob weapon, If you can learn to use it well.

Right, glad we've got that sorted.

Across the halo series we have seen three different starting weapons, each of which had their flaws and their advantages.

The AR is a good starting weapon because it is fairly powerful but still encourages players to pick up other weapons as it can only be used in a limited number of situations. However many players dislike it because it can't be used at longer ranges and makes dual wields redundant.
On the other hand the BR is the favorite of many players because it's effective at all ranges and is one of the more 'skillful' weapons of the game unfortuanately, because it is so powerful players very rarely pick up new weapons when the have a BR resulting in repetative gameplay.

Other players think that the SMG should be a starting weapon so that dual wields can be effective. The reason for this is that dual wields are only powerful in combinations, for example the SMG/PR combination is very effective, however because roaming the map to find both parts of a combo is difficult and time consuming, it's very rarely worth bothering, however with an SMG start, players can get combine the SMG with and dual wield they find lying around.
The disadvantage of an SMG start is that it isn't a very skillful weapon to use, it's a very innacurate weapon that relies on sheer number of bullets to take down enemies. It is in effect a bullet hose

I suggest that a scoped SMG would take the best aspects of all these weapons. The addition of a scope would give it increased accuracy, allowing it to fight at all ranges, While unscoped it would retain it's close range capabilities, however when scoped and use skillfuly (ie. firing in bursts) it would be able to fight effectively at mid range.
This would result in a weapon that was a 'jack of all trades, master of none'. Useable in any situation, but not dominating at any range, encouraging players to pick up more powerful weapons, but not leaving them defencless against long range weapons while seaching for them.

The BR and the AR would then become 'specialist' weapons, with the AR dominating at close range and the BR dominating at mid range. This would make gameplay more interesting as players would have to choose between power or versatility.

Obviously a scoped SMG would lose it's scoping ability when dual wielding to avoid it becoming overpowered. This would make the weapon very different to use in single and dual wield.

Now I'm open to criticism, but can we keep it construcitve please. If you think this idea sucks, then please explain exactly what sucks about it and offer an alternative.

Posted by: ObsidianDaer
Spawn with an all-around, find the weapon you want, take the long range, or short-range.


[Edited on 08.20.2009 4:59 AM PDT]

  • 08.17.2009 12:59 PM PDT

How do you know the ODST SMG takes skill to use? ODST ain't even out yet!

  • 08.17.2009 1:01 PM PDT

bungie jumper lol

that would be nice after uing assaullt rifle ammo up use the smgs hose o' bullets!

but i dont think itll happen

  • 08.17.2009 1:01 PM PDT

This account was destroyed by data corruption. My other account is Ylthorin.

If you want to have fun when playing games, relaxing and other stuff like that, feel free to drop by and join The Gaming Knights.

Would you kindly explain what this is doing in the Halo: Reach forum?

  • 08.17.2009 1:21 PM PDT
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Posted by: Zuka Zammane
Would you kindly explain what this is doing in the Halo: Reach forum?
He thinks that the starting weapon in Reach should be the SMG.

  • 08.17.2009 1:35 PM PDT
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I like your idea but we dont know how the ODST SMG works I will have to try it before I can agree with you

  • 08.17.2009 1:42 PM PDT
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What an incredible idea, I hope bungie consider's implementing this idea into Halo Reach.

As for another, bit off topic idea, add more mid range weapons into the game, so there is variety, and less complaining about BR, or Possible the MD6, or both in Reach.

  • 08.17.2009 1:46 PM PDT
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Your idea makes sense to me. I personally say they scrap the BR and make the AR more accurate. Problem solved IMO

  • 08.17.2009 2:06 PM PDT

Just enjoy the damn game!
Who cares about BR vs AR

Scoped SMG still doesn't make sense to me. A scoped Machine gun. Kinda defeats the point of the machine gun. Its not designed to be accurate. A scope will not make it more accurate, only allow the player to see further away than normal.

  • 08.17.2009 2:12 PM PDT

From the footage I have seen from ODST, it looks like a good idea. At close range the weapon is effective, but at close range most things are (like you arm lol). BUT with a scope that could go about 2x, it would increase it's range to medium.

HOWEVER, by being a machine gun, it couldn't shoot farther than that, even if you are "aiming" at someone farther out. The BR would still be useful because it does have the ability to shoot farther than medium range, and the AR can still be used at close range because it would be slightly more powerful.

  • 08.17.2009 2:20 PM PDT

Blackness Confirmed. You've got soul.


The Ultimate Opinion.

Posted by: ABotelho
How do you know the ODST SMG takes skill to use? ODST ain't even out yet!


Magic.


Anyway, i think it should be Ar starts. Ar is the classic halo weapon. Removing the AR from Halo 2 was a mistake. The AR is basicly halo's "signature" weapon. Thus, should still be used as a startoff weapon.

  • 08.17.2009 3:45 PM PDT
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Posted by: LordAustin16
Posted by: ABotelho
How do you know the ODST SMG takes skill to use? ODST ain't even out yet!


Magic.


Anyway, i think it should be Ar starts. Ar is the classic halo weapon. Removing the AR from Halo 2 was a mistake. The AR is basicly halo's "signature" weapon. Thus, should still be used as a startoff weapon.


I believe the BR was a combination of the AR and MD6 during the halo 2 era, despite the SMG retaining the AR cross hairs and accurate burst fire mechanics.

Besides, I actually hated the AR in halo ce, until I figured out it was good for burst firing, but even then, the reload time was too long, but I guess it was useful for multiplayer.

  • 08.17.2009 4:14 PM PDT

Posted by: NME Overlord
Scoped SMG still doesn't make sense to me. A scoped Machine gun. Kinda defeats the point of the machine gun. Its not designed to be accurate. A scope will not make it more accurate, only allow the player to see further away than normal.

But the suppressor does tighten the spread. It IS more accurate.

IMO we should give the AR more range, making able to defend it's self further. The BR is more powerful anyway.

[Edited on 08.17.2009 5:26 PM PDT]

  • 08.17.2009 5:25 PM PDT

Posted by: ABotelho
How do you know the ODST SMG takes skill to use? ODST ain't even out yet!

To be truthful, I don't. I'm making assumptions from the facts I know.

The things we know about the S-SMG is that it has high recoil and a much lower spread. Recoil means players need to learn to use burst fire properly and low spread makes the weapon harder to use for inexperienced players.
I also know that people who have played firefight have described it as a 'easy to learn, difficult to master' weapon. Noobs can still use it as a bullet hose, but experienced players can use it in a variety of different effective ways.
Posted by: Kasith
What an incredible idea, I hope bungie consider's implementing this idea into Halo Reach.

As for another, bit off topic idea, add more mid range weapons into the game, so there is variety, and less complaining about BR, or Possible the MD6, or both in Reach.

You sir, can come again. I too had an idea about increasing the number of mid range weapons in this thread. http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=34982070

Great minds think alike eh?

[Edited on 08.20.2009 5:02 AM PDT]

  • 08.18.2009 12:14 AM PDT
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Posted by: ABotelho
Posted by: NME Overlord
Scoped SMG still doesn't make sense to me. A scoped Machine gun. Kinda defeats the point of the machine gun. Its not designed to be accurate. A scope will not make it more accurate, only allow the player to see further away than normal.

But the suppressor does tighten the spread. It IS more accurate.
No, it's not. That's not how suppressors work.

[Edited on 08.18.2009 12:24 AM PDT]

  • 08.18.2009 12:24 AM PDT

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We will have to see how the Scoped SMG plays in ODSt first....

  • 08.18.2009 12:26 AM PDT
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This was Dootuz117 but i changed accounts
M!
97% OF TEENS WON'T STAND UP FOR GOD. IF YOU'RE ONE OF THE 3% WHO WILL, PUT THIS IN YOUR SIG.
Posted by: just another fan
Yeah, because we all know that weird guys on youtube always speak the truth.

Posted by: Hot Sauce 147
Posting on bungie.net should require that the user has had to have read a chapter book all the way through.

No unless dual wielding is taken out.

Even then No.

They need to just make the AR good. And bring back the Halo 1 pistol.

[Edited on 08.18.2009 2:40 AM PDT]

  • 08.18.2009 2:39 AM PDT

Posted by: AK 47625714
Posted by: ABotelho
Posted by: NME Overlord
Scoped SMG still doesn't make sense to me. A scoped Machine gun. Kinda defeats the point of the machine gun. Its not designed to be accurate. A scope will not make it more accurate, only allow the player to see further away than normal.

But the suppressor does tighten the spread. It IS more accurate.
No, it's not. That's not how suppressors work.

It is in video games

  • 08.18.2009 12:07 PM PDT
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Posted by: scotsoe
Your idea makes sense to me. I personally say they scrap the BR and make the AR more accurate. Problem solved IMO

shut up shut up shut up
not an anti br thread bro

  • 08.18.2009 12:12 PM PDT

I am of an open mind and I am willing to hear criticism. Also: That's stupid and you're stupid.

Posted by: YouGotSausaged
Posted by: scotsoe
Your idea makes sense to me. I personally say they scrap the BR and make the AR more accurate. Problem solved IMO

shut up shut up shut up
not an anti br thread bro

Anti-Br thread FTW.

  • 08.18.2009 12:14 PM PDT

Posted by: AK 47625714
Posted by: ABotelho
Posted by: NME Overlord
Scoped SMG still doesn't make sense to me. A scoped Machine gun. Kinda defeats the point of the machine gun. Its not designed to be accurate. A scope will not make it more accurate, only allow the player to see further away than normal.

But the suppressor does tighten the spread. It IS more accurate.
No, it's not. That's not how suppressors work.

Actually, it will slightly increase the accuracy. Not by much, but it will.

  • 08.18.2009 12:21 PM PDT

agreed

  • 08.18.2009 12:46 PM PDT

Posted by: YouGotSausaged
Posted by: scotsoe
Your idea makes sense to me. I personally say they scrap the BR and make the AR more accurate. Problem solved IMO

shut up shut up shut up
not an anti br thread bro

Hey, no need to lay into the guy. He's just stating his opinion, I'm open to alternative Ideas.
Just because this isn't an anti-BR thread doesn't mean we can't think up alternatives.

I don't think that having a more accurate AR would be a reason to scrap the BR, the 2 weapons play very differently.
Everyone seems to think that there can only be one diffinative mid-range weapon. I don't see why we can't have a scoped SMG, the H1 pistol, an accurate AR, an auto-mag, a BR and a carbine. This way everyone gets their favourite mid ranged weapon.

  • 08.18.2009 1:11 PM PDT

"Resignation is my virtue; like water I ebb and flow. Defeat is simply the addition of time to a sentence I never deserved." -Gravemind

We will all see when the Halo Reach Multiplayer Beta is released with ODST, I say don't worry about it until then. Bungie knows how to set up a game.

  • 08.18.2009 1:12 PM PDT

I LOVE THE SMG! Even the one without the scope. I love the way it sounds, I love the way it looks, and I love the way I can pwn MLG noobs with it who hate it so much!

All hail, the SMG!

  • 08.18.2009 1:12 PM PDT

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