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Subject: Mirrors In Forge/Matchmaking

I would love to see mirrors implemented into Halo: Reach's forge (if there is one) as well as in Matchmaking maps. This would create some awesome new gameplay strategies.. People crouching around corners wouldnt be so comfy camping with that shotgun.

It would also allow for some more creative machinimas, montages, and screenshots.

Just wondered why we've never seen them in the game yet.

  • 08.17.2009 6:47 PM PDT

Mirrors, FTW!
I have always thought mirrors would be a good idea espcially if they could deflect spartan lasers.

  • 08.17.2009 7:07 PM PDT

That would be completely awesome if there were mirrors in forge. I like the idea of them being able to reflect spartan lasers, that would make for some crazy ricochets. I don't know much about how game engines work, but I think having mirrors in forge might cause a little lag.

  • 08.17.2009 8:24 PM PDT

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Posted by: Homeboyd903
I would love to see mirrors implemented into Halo: Reach's forge (if there is one) as well as in Matchmaking maps. This would create some awesome new gameplay strategies.. People crouching around corners wouldnt be so comfy camping with that shotgun.

It would also allow for some more creative machinimas, montages, and screenshots.

Just wondered why we've never seen them in the game yet.
great idea man.

  • 08.17.2009 8:25 PM PDT

I hunt for the Prophet of Contentment, the San 'Shyumm that murdered my son, and stole his birthright, his Energy Sword. They call our species Heretics. They claim to all that our tongues sting, our words a vile poison that feeds on the unworthy. I have seen the true face of Heresy. The head of a gallant warrior lay on the ground. His neck scorched and blistered, scarred by his own blade. I shall retrieve the weapon, and drive it through that bastard's heart! Punishment for his sins is nigh.

Mirrors would be cool, but Bungie seems to have the mentality that mirrored surfaces are just a waste of programming space.

Some surfaces in Halo CE were mirrored, mostly only a couple of floors like in the control room.

[Edited on 08.17.2009 8:31 PM PDT]

  • 08.17.2009 8:29 PM PDT

Oops. I think I just lost your mind.

Reflections work by a process called raytracing, which takes HUGE amounts of processing power as far as I know. There is no such thing as a true reflection in Halo; have someone put on Security helmet and look into the visor. You will see an empty map.

HOWEVER, Microsoft and bungie are successful because they are smart. So, if a simple raytracing method does exist, and bungie can implement it, epic win.

  • 08.17.2009 8:30 PM PDT

I hunt for the Prophet of Contentment, the San 'Shyumm that murdered my son, and stole his birthright, his Energy Sword. They call our species Heretics. They claim to all that our tongues sting, our words a vile poison that feeds on the unworthy. I have seen the true face of Heresy. The head of a gallant warrior lay on the ground. His neck scorched and blistered, scarred by his own blade. I shall retrieve the weapon, and drive it through that bastard's heart! Punishment for his sins is nigh.

Posted by: Irongam3r
Reflections work by a process called raytracing, which takes HUGE amounts of processing power as far as I know. There is no such thing as a true reflection in Halo; have someone put on Security helmet and look into the visor. You will see an empty map.

HOWEVER, Microsoft and bungie are successful because they are smart. So, if a simple raytracing method does exist, and bungie can implement it, epic win.

Initially they planned to have real reflectivity in the visors in Halo 3, Im pretty sure they appeared in the Beta, but I then Bungie announced what I said before, they didn't want to use up the space.

  • 08.17.2009 8:32 PM PDT

Posted by: Homeboyd903
Just wondered why we've never seen them in the game yet.

Bungie doesn't want their servers to catch on fire from bad luck.

  • 08.17.2009 8:49 PM PDT

Reflections don't take that much processing power, as in Halo PC there's a way to make just about every metal object, or glass/ice-like object (walls on icefield) reflective. It actually boosts FPS. If you'd like to see it I could record a vid before/after I put the effect on. Just PM me because I don't always come back to the same posts.

[Edited on 08.17.2009 11:06 PM PDT]

  • 08.17.2009 11:06 PM PDT

Problem is that if someone places 2 mirrors facing each other, you get infinite reflection, so infinite lag.

To the poster above me, I call bull-blam!-. In Halo CE, tool (the program the compiles Halo maps) does not allow mirrors to be facing each other.

  • 08.17.2009 11:16 PM PDT

Posted by: Bliznade
Reflections don't take that much processing power, as in Halo PC there's a way to make just about every metal object, or glass/ice-like object (walls on icefield) reflective. It actually boosts FPS. If you'd like to see it I could record a vid before/after I put the effect on. Just PM me because I don't always come back to the same posts.


Id like to see that.

  • 08.18.2009 11:14 AM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
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Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: Homeboyd903
I would love to see mirrors implemented into Halo: Reach's forge (if there is one) as well as in Matchmaking maps. This would create some awesome new gameplay strategies.. People crouching around corners wouldnt be so comfy camping with that shotgun.

It would also allow for some more creative machinimas, montages, and screenshots.

Just wondered why we've never seen them in the game yet.


Going for an Enter the Dragon kind of thing are we?

  • 08.18.2009 11:28 AM PDT

Posted by: SweetTRIX
Posted by: Homeboyd903
I would love to see mirrors implemented into Halo: Reach's forge (if there is one) as well as in Matchmaking maps. This would create some awesome new gameplay strategies.. People crouching around corners wouldnt be so comfy camping with that shotgun.

It would also allow for some more creative machinimas, montages, and screenshots.

Just wondered why we've never seen them in the game yet.


Going for an Enter the Dragon kind of thing are we?


First of all, I have no idea what that is. And if your another "This isnt Gears of Duty: Reach" guy, then well.. you know where the door is.

  • 08.18.2009 11:45 AM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: Homeboyd903
Posted by: SweetTRIX
Posted by: Homeboyd903
I would love to see mirrors implemented into Halo: Reach's forge (if there is one) as well as in Matchmaking maps. This would create some awesome new gameplay strategies.. People crouching around corners wouldnt be so comfy camping with that shotgun.

It would also allow for some more creative machinimas, montages, and screenshots.

Just wondered why we've never seen them in the game yet.


Going for an Enter the Dragon kind of thing are we?


First of all, I have no idea what that is. And if your another "This isnt Gears of Duty: Reach" guy, then well.. you know where the door is.


You don't know what Enter the Dragon is? Wow, I feel old now, anyway I don't know where you pulled the "this isn't gears of duty" garbage from, but if you've never seen the aforementioned movie then you wouldn't get the reference to your post.

  • 08.18.2009 11:51 AM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.

The solution to shotgun campers? Grenades are like a fine woman, you let them enter the room first.

[Edited on 08.18.2009 11:53 AM PDT]

  • 08.18.2009 11:53 AM PDT

Posted by: Irongam3r
Reflections work by a process called raytracing, which takes HUGE amounts of processing power as far as I know. There is no such thing as a true reflection in Halo; have someone put on Security helmet and look into the visor. You will see an empty map.

HOWEVER, Microsoft and bungie are successful because they are smart. So, if a simple raytracing method does exist, and bungie can implement it, epic win.


Incorrect. There are three primary types of reflection: Plane, Cube Map, and Ray Trace. Ray traced mirrors are only used in ray traced environments (I think that makes sense on it's own). According to your statements Halo 3 is not a ray traced engine which you are correct, it is a rasterized engine because direct x is a rasterized.

The reflection you see in the security helmet is called a cube map reflection. They only work on curved surfaces (tricks must be deployed to use them on plane surfaces). They use a pre-generated cube map which consists of 6 images to create a cube. That is why you see an empty map.

The reflections Halo 3 or Halo Reach would use are plane reflections. They require you to create a render target and render part (or all) of the world into that render target from the perspective of the mirror. Often times this render target is a fraction of the real render target used to render the game to. (Yes, Halo 3 all ready renders the main game to a render target for post processing effects. You can see this in a certain areas in campaign). You can use stencil buffers and other techniques to make them less plane like.

Here is the thing: Halo 3 does this! Ever look into the ocean and see the terrain reflected... that's a mirror and it's implemented in the same way as a real mirror.

There is your rundown of basic video game concepts and theories. Oh yea and also the more mirrors you have, the worse performance will be. Also mirrors usually can not reflect other mirrors which all ready creates problems for allowing players to arrange their own mirrors. The best way to use multiple mirrors in such a complex game is to make sure each mirror can not reflect the other and make sure only one mirror can be visible to the user at a time. Very restrictive.

  • 08.18.2009 12:11 PM PDT

Were it so easy.

Really amazing idea, I especially like the Spartan Lazer richochet idea, maybe even plasma based weapons can reflect too. I would also like breakable glass that takes a few melees to break through.

  • 08.18.2009 12:30 PM PDT
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  • 08.18.2009 12:36 PM PDT

A mirror that ricochets everything in all angles, so that you can snipe from multiple directions by using the mirrors?

Hell yeah! Cherish ftw!

Like this..

[Edited on 08.18.2009 12:44 PM PDT]

  • 08.18.2009 12:42 PM PDT

Epic idea actually

  • 08.18.2009 12:43 PM PDT

Posted by: Rune Hunter
Posted by: Irongam3r
Reflections work by a process called raytracing, which takes HUGE amounts of processing power as far as I know. There is no such thing as a true reflection in Halo; have someone put on Security helmet and look into the visor. You will see an empty map.

HOWEVER, Microsoft and bungie are successful because they are smart. So, if a simple raytracing method does exist, and bungie can implement it, epic win.


Incorrect. There are three primary types of reflection: Plane, Cube Map, and Ray Trace. Ray traced mirrors are only used in ray traced environments (I think that makes sense on it's own). According to your statements Halo 3 is not a ray traced engine which you are correct, it is a rasterized engine because direct x is a rasterized.

The reflection you see in the security helmet is called a cube map reflection. They only work on curved surfaces (tricks must be deployed to use them on plane surfaces). They use a pre-generated cube map which consists of 6 images to create a cube. That is why you see an empty map.

The reflections Halo 3 or Halo Reach would use are plane reflections. They require you to create a render target and render part (or all) of the world into that render target from the perspective of the mirror. Often times this render target is a fraction of the real render target used to render the game to. (Yes, Halo 3 all ready renders the main game to a render target for post processing effects. You can see this in a certain areas in campaign). You can use stencil buffers and other techniques to make them less plane like.

Here is the thing: Halo 3 does this! Ever look into the ocean and see the terrain reflected... that's a mirror and it's implemented in the same way as a real mirror.

There is your rundown of basic video game concepts and theories. Oh yea and also the more mirrors you have, the worse performance will be. Also mirrors usually can not reflect other mirrors which all ready creates problems for allowing players to arrange their own mirrors. The best way to use multiple mirrors in such a complex game is to make sure each mirror can not reflect the other and make sure only one mirror can be visible to the user at a time. Very restrictive.


Interesting.. Well couldnt you just have a "one-reflection" mirror so that even if players put mirrors next to each other you wont see multiple images bouncing from one mirror reflecting off of the other? What I mean is, if you had a mirror pointing at another mirror, and a space in between, and you walked in between that space and looked into one of the mirrors, you would only see your front reflection and not your back from the mirror behind you?

Wow does that even make sense?

And to the ricochet idea, unfortunately thats not what I mean. Mirrors are made of glass (which should be breakable, but if not then ok) and only images reflect, not weapon shots. Now, I know sniper rifles ricochet off of walls already and that would be fine if it worked off of the mirrors as well in that same sense, but you should not be able to bounce bullets off of the mirror in the reflective matter you are talking about. Lasers... hmm.. maybe? Since lasers actually do reflect.. it could work. You could bounce them around corners and such.

[Edited on 08.18.2009 12:48 PM PDT]

  • 08.18.2009 12:44 PM PDT
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Enter the dragon skip to 1:30

  • 08.18.2009 12:48 PM PDT

Posted by: scotsoe
Enter the dragon skip to 1:30


Well then I apologize to sweetTRIX, most people think that any idea you come up with in these forums is a a take-off of someone elses game and then they reply with "NO THIS ISNT CALL OF DUTY" or something ridiculous like that.

I misunderstood, I apologize.

  • 08.18.2009 1:07 PM PDT
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Posted by: Flame Ninga
Mirrors, FTW!
I have always thought mirrors would be a good idea espcially if they could deflect spartan lasers.

  • 08.18.2009 2:08 PM PDT

Posted by: xxchad321
Posted by: Flame Ninga
Mirrors, FTW!
I have always thought mirrors would be a good idea espcially if they could deflect spartan lasers.


Like I said, since lasers actually do reflect in mirrors in real life, I could see this as a possibility. But for lasers only.. I dont think mirrors should enhance ricochets for bullets/rockets/etc.. anymore than regular walls do in the game.

The main purpose I would like to see mirrors is for gameplay aesthetics, machinimas, montages, and screenshots. My original purpose for proposing mirrors was not for "looking into mirror, shooting at mirror, and having bullet (reflect) and hit target seen in mirror." That isnt how mirrors work.

  • 08.18.2009 2:28 PM PDT

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